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Re: mindfulness of breathing

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  • Bhikkhu Pesala
    ... wrote: D: I remember that the list does not favor discussions BP: The format of this list, and its lack of support for Unicode Pali makes any discussion
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 10, 2007
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      --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, Dieter Möller <moellerdieter@...>
      wrote:

      D: I remember that the list does not favor discussions

      BP: The format of this list, and its lack of support for Unicode Pali
      makes any discussion difficult, apart from the policy of the list. I prefer the
      format of other forums such as the Sangha Forum
      http://forum.sirimangalo.org/phpBB3/index.php
      or Abhidhamma Vipassana http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/

      D: Would you agree with me that the Mahasi meditation method means in
      principle shifting the focus of attention from the nostrils to the abdomen
      (whose rising and falling is in line with in- and out breathing)?

      BP: Mindfulness of the four elements is an entirely different method of
      body mindfulness. There is no need to start with mindfulness of
      respiration, then shift the attention to the abdomen. One starts
      immediately with paying attention to the air element at the abdomen.

      D: Mindfulness of breathing- in its most simple form- is the pre-condition
      for the practise of Sati in respect to the 4 great references, isn't it?

      It might be, but it is not a necessary pre-condition. One can establish
      mindfulness of the body using any of the 14 methods of body
      contemplation in the Satipatthana Sutta. Just because anapana comes
      first does not mean it is must be used by all. The Buddha was teaching
      many monks at the same time, some of whom were practising the
      cemetery contemplations, or other methods of body mindfulness such as
      the analysis of the four elements.

      Easy and difficult are relative terms. What is easy for one may be difficult
      for another. The advice is that one should select a meditation method to
      suit one's temperament. I think that many may not progress as quickly as
      they might due to lack of the right method or lack of the right instructions
      for development.
    • Dieter Möller
      Dear Venerable Pesala, thank you for the links preferable for discussion and your comment. There are obviously points we agree and some we are not (probably
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 10, 2007
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        Dear Venerable Pesala,
        thank you for the links preferable for discussion and your comment.
        There are obviously points we agree and some we are not (probably yet).
        For the latter I will deliberate your advise and possibly come back on the forums you mentioned such as the
        http://forum.sirimangalo.org/phpBB3/index.php or Abhidhamma Vipassana http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/

        I got some good ideas benefitial for further communication with my friends and like to thank you again for the care.

        with Metta Dieter




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bhikkhu Pesala
        To: SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:20 AM
        Subject: [SanghaOnline] Re: mindfulness of breathing


        --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, Dieter Möller <moellerdieter@...>
        wrote:

        D: I remember that the list does not favor discussions

        BP: The format of this list, and its lack of support for Unicode Pali
        makes any discussion difficult, apart from the policy of the list. I prefer the
        format of other forums such as the Sangha Forum
        http://forum.sirimangalo.org/phpBB3/index.php
        or Abhidhamma Vipassana http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/

        D: Would you agree with me that the Mahasi meditation method means in
        principle shifting the focus of attention from the nostrils to the abdomen
        (whose rising and falling is in line with in- and out breathing)?

        BP: Mindfulness of the four elements is an entirely different method of
        body mindfulness. There is no need to start with mindfulness of
        respiration, then shift the attention to the abdomen. One starts
        immediately with paying attention to the air element at the abdomen.

        D: Mindfulness of breathing- in its most simple form- is the pre-condition
        for the practise of Sati in respect to the 4 great references, isn't it?

        It might be, but it is not a necessary pre-condition. One can establish
        mindfulness of the body using any of the 14 methods of body
        contemplation in the Satipatthana Sutta. Just because anapana comes
        first does not mean it is must be used by all. The Buddha was teaching
        many monks at the same time, some of whom were practising the
        cemetery contemplations, or other methods of body mindfulness such as
        the analysis of the four elements.

        Easy and difficult are relative terms. What is easy for one may be difficult
        for another. The advice is that one should select a meditation method to
        suit one's temperament. I think that many may not progress as quickly as
        they might due to lack of the right method or lack of the right instructions
        for development.





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