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Higher Ordination/Tikhatuthi in Myanmar

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  • sam he
    Dear Venerable Sirs, I would like to ask you questions regarding Tikhatuthi(in Mynamar) or Higher ordination for the Monk. The story goes like this :I just
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 4, 2007
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      Dear Venerable Sirs,

      I would like to ask you questions regarding Tikhatuthi(in Mynamar) or
      Higher ordination for the Monk.
      The story goes like this :I just sponsored a Burmese Monk for his
      higher ordination.
      Before I sponsored this, I and this Monk were getting along well I
      was happy to be his dayaka thus offered danas to him.
      However, Lately, especially after I sponsored his higher ordination
      I started feeling unhappy because I feel that he wants to control me
      and so I do not have freedom like before, freedom to visit any other
      monks or monastery.
      Several times he emphazised to me that I am his closest dayaka and
      I can ask anything from Him and he has given this rare opportunity
      only to me NOT to anybody else(This I agree)BUT in
      return...apparently I should do according whatever he wants, I felt
      trapped, unfair.
      Recently I found out that this monk also involved in a dispute with
      several of the committe member of the temple and he tried to appoint
      me as a president of the comittee BUT seeing all the political
      movement from both sides and also stunned by the political action
      done by a Buddhist Monk and also his attachment to the power( I am
      sorry to say this) so I turned down the offer and I also withdrew my
      membership from the comittee.

      My questions are :
      1. what are the consequences for the dayaka for sponsoring Higher
      ordination. One of my burmese friend told me that by doing this I
      have to be responsible for the welfare of this monk (which I do not
      mind to any decent and good monks))similar responsibility in adopting
      a child so I am like the parent and the monk is the adopted child.
      So is this a LIFELONG commitment?

      2. As now i have lost respect and confidence in this monk and I do
      not want my mind to be inundated with AKUSALA instead of KUSALA,
      Is that possible if I stop seeing, supporting him and ceased to be
      his closest dayaka?
      By doing this are there any onsequences to me?

      Thank you in advance

      Sincerely and desperately need answers

      Sam
    • Ven. Acara
      Dear Sam, I m sorry to hear your story about your monk. Frankly speaking, your monk in my mind s eyes is somewhat narrow-minded. The venerable monk is (was)
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 12, 2007
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        Dear Sam,
        I'm sorry to hear your story about your monk. Frankly speaking, your
        monk in my mind's eyes is somewhat narrow-minded. The venerable monk
        is (was) overwhelmed by jealously or micchera or macchariya
        (kula-macchera or kula-macchariya), I understand.
        Let's see basic concept of buddhist missionary, co-operation of monks
        and lay people.
        - Monks should learn Teachings of the Buddha; and again they should
        teach or preach lay people what they've learned: the Teachings
        (gantha-dhura).
        - Monks should practice accordingly what they've learned: the
        Teachings (vipassana-dhura).
        - Lay people should also learn Teachings of the Buddha from monks or
        books; and again they should also teach or preach others what they've
        learned: the Teachings (gantha-dhura).
        - Lay people should give supports to the monks, mainly with Four
        Requisites: alms-food, robe, monastery and medicine.

        In our buddhist community, lay people are supporting monks in many
        ways. Your support in your monk's ordination is just a form of
        supports to the monks. In Myanmar, majority of ordained monks are
        supposed to be family members of their ordination-supporters. This is
        just a lovely tradition, but not a religious duty or practice. We may
        call it a "social religious way of life" or "social-religious bond". A
        lay people may (or should) support as many monks as he/she can. I see
        No Limit to the lay people's supports to the monks_ to one monk, two
        or three or more monks. Moreover, there's no commitment at all to
        support a certain monk, even when a lay person has become
        ordination-supporter of a monk. For example, I may be
        ordination-supporter of a certain monk if I like to do it (I like a
        monk); I may continue to support him if I like to do it (I like the
        monk) or if I can to manage it; and I can even stop my support to the
        monk, any time.
        As for me, I'm ready to forget such persons: jealous and narrow-minded
        monks, men, or women; that would be better for me, I believe.
        Now, I'm on a journey; and so I can say this in general. I might have
        left some important facts for the answer. If you couldn't understand
        my answer, I would be ready to say it more.
        I'll occasionally be on the line: 'Samgha on line"; I'll always be at
        ven.acara@..., www.yyms.blogspot.com, and www.yyms.org (soon).

        Yours in the Dhamma,
        Venerable Acara (from Myanmar).


        On 09 Mar 2007 05:19:22 -0800, sam he <sam_hoe13@...> wrote:

        Dear Venerable Sirs,

        I would like to ask you questions regarding Tikhatuthi(in Mynamar) or
        >
        Higher ordination for the Monk.
        >
        The story goes like this :I just sponsored a Burmese Monk for his
        >
        higher ordination.
        >
        Before I sponsored this, I and this Monk were getting along well I
        >
        was happy to be his dayaka thus offered danas to him.
        >
        However, Lately, especially after I sponsored his higher ordination
        >
        I started feeling unhappy because I feel that he wants to control me
        >
        and so I do not have freedom like before, freedom to visit any other
        >
        monks or monastery.
        >
        Several times he emphazised to me that I am his closest dayaka and
        >
        I can ask anything from Him and he has given this rare opportunity
        >
        only to me NOT to anybody else(This I agree) BUT in
        >
        return...apparently I should do according whatever he wants, I felt
        >
        trapped, unfair.
        >
        Recently I found out that this monk also involved in a dispute with
        >
        several of the committe member of the temple and he tried to appoint
        >
        me as a president of the comittee BUT seeing all the political
        >
        movement from both sides and also stunned by the political action
        >
        done by a Buddhist Monk and also his attachment to the power( I am
        >
        sorry to say this) so I turned down the offer and I also withdrew my
        >
        membership from the comittee.
        >

        >
        My questions are :
        >
        1. what are the consequences for the dayaka for sponsoring Higher
        >
        ordination. One of my burmese friend told me that by doing this I
        >
        have to be responsible for the welfare of this monk (which I do not
        >
        mind to any decent and good monks))similar responsibility in adopting
        >
        a child so I am like the parent and the monk is the adopted child.
        >
        So is this a LIFELONG commitment?
        >

        >
        2. As now i have lost respect and confidence in this monk and I do
        >
        not want my mind to be inundated with AKUSALA instead of KUSALA,
        >
        Is that possible if I stop seeing, supporting him and ceased to be
        >
        his closest dayaka?
        >
        By doing this are there any onsequences to me?
        >

        >
        Thank you in advance
        >

        >
        Sincerely and desperately need answers
        >

        >
        Sam
        >

        >
      • mmlwin
        Dear Sam, I believe you had sponsored the monk a sort of repeat ordination or re-ordination, a practice increasingly popular in Myanmar especially among
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 18, 2007
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          Dear Sam,

          I believe you had sponsored the monk a sort of repeat ordination or
          re-ordination, a practice increasingly popular in Myanmar especially
          among highly-respected monks. There is no life-long commitment
          after having supported a monk in such a way, even after you had
          sponsored him for the higher ordination for the first time in his
          life. You can either stop or continue as you wish.

          The Buddha once said monks must act like bees. Bees suck juice from
          flowers without destroying the plant. Monks must act the same way
          without hurting their supporters. If you end up with ill-feeling and
          resentment, it is time you review the situation.

          Venerable Kavi Sara
          London Mogok Yeiktha

          --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "sam he" <sam_hoe13@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Venerable Sirs,
          >
          > I would like to ask you questions regarding Tikhatuthi(in Mynamar)
          or
          > Higher ordination for the Monk.
          > The story goes like this :I just sponsored a Burmese Monk for his
          > higher ordination.
          > Before I sponsored this, I and this Monk were getting along well I
          > was happy to be his dayaka thus offered danas to him.
          > However, Lately, especially after I sponsored his higher
          ordination
          > I started feeling unhappy because I feel that he wants to control
          me
          > and so I do not have freedom like before, freedom to visit any
          other
          > monks or monastery.
          > Several times he emphazised to me that I am his closest dayaka
          and
          > I can ask anything from Him and he has given this rare opportunity
          > only to me NOT to anybody else(This I agree)BUT in
          > return...apparently I should do according whatever he wants, I
          felt
          > trapped, unfair.
          > Recently I found out that this monk also involved in a dispute
          with
          > several of the committe member of the temple and he tried to
          appoint
          > me as a president of the comittee BUT seeing all the political
          > movement from both sides and also stunned by the political action
          > done by a Buddhist Monk and also his attachment to the power( I am
          > sorry to say this) so I turned down the offer and I also withdrew
          my
          > membership from the comittee.
          >
          > My questions are :
          > 1. what are the consequences for the dayaka for sponsoring Higher
          > ordination. One of my burmese friend told me that by doing this I
          > have to be responsible for the welfare of this monk (which I do
          not
          > mind to any decent and good monks))similar responsibility in
          adopting
          > a child so I am like the parent and the monk is the adopted child.
          > So is this a LIFELONG commitment?
          >
          > 2. As now i have lost respect and confidence in this monk and I do
          > not want my mind to be inundated with AKUSALA instead of KUSALA,
          > Is that possible if I stop seeing, supporting him and ceased to be
          > his closest dayaka?
          > By doing this are there any onsequences to me?
          >
          > Thank you in advance
          >
          > Sincerely and desperately need answers
          >
          > Sam
          >
        • sam he
          Dear Venerable Monks and Dhamma friends, Heaps of Thank you for your kind explanations. Sincerely Sam mmlwin wrote: Dear Sam, I
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 24, 2007
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            Dear Venerable Monks and Dhamma friends,

            Heaps of Thank you for your kind explanations.

            Sincerely

            Sam


            mmlwin <mmlwin@...> wrote:
            Dear Sam,

            I believe you had sponsored the monk a sort of repeat ordination or
            re-ordination, a practice increasingly popular in Myanmar especially
            among highly-respected monks. There is no life-long commitment
            after having supported a monk in such a way, even after you had
            sponsored him for the higher ordination for the first time in his
            life. You can either stop or continue as you wish.

            The Buddha once said monks must act like bees. Bees suck juice from
            flowers without destroying the plant. Monks must act the same way
            without hurting their supporters. If you end up with ill-feeling and
            resentment, it is time you review the situation.

            Venerable Kavi Sara
            London Mogok Yeiktha

            --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "sam he" <sam_hoe13@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Venerable Sirs,
            >
            > I would like to ask you questions regarding Tikhatuthi(in Mynamar)
            or
            > Higher ordination for the Monk.
            > The story goes like this :I just sponsored a Burmese Monk for his
            > higher ordination.
            > Before I sponsored this, I and this Monk were getting along well I
            > was happy to be his dayaka thus offered danas to him.
            > However, Lately, especially after I sponsored his higher
            ordination
            > I started feeling unhappy because I feel that he wants to control
            me
            > and so I do not have freedom like before, freedom to visit any
            other
            > monks or monastery.
            > Several times he emphazised to me that I am his closest dayaka
            and
            > I can ask anything from Him and he has given this rare opportunity
            > only to me NOT to anybody else(This I agree)BUT in
            > return...apparently I should do according whatever he wants, I
            felt
            > trapped, unfair.
            > Recently I found out that this monk also involved in a dispute
            with
            > several of the committe member of the temple and he tried to
            appoint
            > me as a president of the comittee BUT seeing all the political
            > movement from both sides and also stunned by the political action
            > done by a Buddhist Monk and also his attachment to the power( I am
            > sorry to say this) so I turned down the offer and I also withdrew
            my
            > membership from the comittee.
            >
            > My questions are :
            > 1. what are the consequences for the dayaka for sponsoring Higher
            > ordination. One of my burmese friend told me that by doing this I
            > have to be responsible for the welfare of this monk (which I do
            not
            > mind to any decent and good monks))similar responsibility in
            adopting
            > a child so I am like the parent and the monk is the adopted child.
            > So is this a LIFELONG commitment?
            >
            > 2. As now i have lost respect and confidence in this monk and I do
            > not want my mind to be inundated with AKUSALA instead of KUSALA,
            > Is that possible if I stop seeing, supporting him and ceased to be
            > his closest dayaka?
            > By doing this are there any onsequences to me?
            >
            > Thank you in advance
            >
            > Sincerely and desperately need answers
            >
            > Sam
            >





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