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How to ground 803a ?

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  • H.A.Marks
    Hi all.... I have a hypothetical situation ... That I ve pondered,and really have no answer.. I ll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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      Hi all....
      I have a hypothetical situation ...
      That I've pondered,and really have no answer..
      I'll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
      input as to how to.....Suggestions.

      I'm no big SW enthusiast,nor a degreed electronics person.
      I do own two 803a's,one's in the shop,the other is here in the comp room.
      My experience with outdoor antennas was a long wire version..
      I used coax the center strand was signal input.
      The shield was ran to a drop outside for ground...
      Had good results.. Used entirely for AM band.

      I've read long ago that if an external outdoor antenna is used the
      Radio/Receiver needs to be grounded..

      Working on that premise.
      Lets say I build a version of a loop antenna for SW,ok?
      It is to be used as an outdoor antenna.
      I intend to run coax as my input leadin.

      The way I understand this is that I need two,legs of input from the
      loop antenna...
      The antenna is not to be grounded...
      With me so far ??

      Now if I use coax,and use both center and shield for the two legs
      of signal input from antenna..
      I intend to use a RS adapter,to break the coax back to RCA,for input.
      How now...after this antenna setup connection,do I connect to the
      radio to access a ground connection back to the outside ???
      The outer shield on the RCA plug would be hard to try and connect
      to,and besides it is being used as input from the loop antenna...
      Would also connecting to it for ground,interfere with my antenna
      signal??
      I had thought of maybe,running a ground drop directly from the
      shield connection at the antenna,but it was stated that the antenna
      wasn't to be grounded...

      A perfect world would maybe have it,that I used both legs of the
      coax for input signal,and ran a separate ground wire back outside..
      Sounds simple enough....
      Where on the radio would I connect the separate ground??

      I'm at a loss....figuring where to connect the ground wire.
      Being at a loss,was a simple accomplishment actually....
      I've been know to get askew some what easily....

      Thanks for any input.......
    • Paul
      what you need to do realistically is get a coaxial lightning arrestor that has a lug on it that you can connect a grounding wire from it to a ground rod, that
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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        what you need to do realistically is get a coaxial lightning arrestor that has a lug on it that you can connect a grounding wire from it to a ground rod, that would be the best way to go long wire OR loop.
        Paul

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: H.A.Marks
        To: Sangean803@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:28 AM
        Subject: [Sangean803] How to ground 803a ?


        Hi all....
        I have a hypothetical situation ...
        That I've pondered,and really have no answer..
        I'll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
        input as to how to.....Suggestions.

        I'm no big SW enthusiast,nor a degreed electronics person.
        I do own two 803a's,one's in the shop,the other is here in the comp room.
        My experience with outdoor antennas was a long wire version..
        I used coax the center strand was signal input.
        The shield was ran to a drop outside for ground...
        Had good results.. Used entirely for AM band.

        I've read long ago that if an external outdoor antenna is used the
        Radio/Receiver needs to be grounded..

        Working on that premise.
        Lets say I build a version of a loop antenna for SW,ok?
        It is to be used as an outdoor antenna.
        I intend to run coax as my input leadin.

        The way I understand this is that I need two,legs of input from the
        loop antenna...
        The antenna is not to be grounded...
        With me so far ??

        Now if I use coax,and use both center and shield for the two legs
        of signal input from antenna..
        I intend to use a RS adapter,to break the coax back to RCA,for input.
        How now...after this antenna setup connection,do I connect to the
        radio to access a ground connection back to the outside ???
        The outer shield on the RCA plug would be hard to try and connect
        to,and besides it is being used as input from the loop antenna...
        Would also connecting to it for ground,interfere with my antenna
        signal??
        I had thought of maybe,running a ground drop directly from the
        shield connection at the antenna,but it was stated that the antenna
        wasn't to be grounded...

        A perfect world would maybe have it,that I used both legs of the
        coax for input signal,and ran a separate ground wire back outside..
        Sounds simple enough....
        Where on the radio would I connect the separate ground??

        I'm at a loss....figuring where to connect the ground wire.
        Being at a loss,was a simple accomplishment actually....
        I've been know to get askew some what easily....

        Thanks for any input.......


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Allan D Watson
        With a loop antenna no ground connection is needed for the signal, but it would be sensible to fit a lightning arrestor for safety. The connection to the
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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          With a loop antenna no ground connection is needed for the signal,
          but it would be sensible to fit a lightning arrestor for safety. The
          connection to the lightning arrestor can be to the shield of your
          coax.
          A pair of diodes across the loop will also provide the receiver with
          some protection against high voltage spikes induced in the loop by
          lightning, high powered transmitters etc.



          --- In Sangean803@yahoogroups.com, "H.A.Marks" <cham@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all....
          > I have a hypothetical situation ...
          > That I've pondered,and really have no answer..
          > I'll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
          > input as to how to.....Suggestions.
          >
          > I'm no big SW enthusiast,nor a degreed electronics person.
          > I do own two 803a's,one's in the shop,the other is here in the
          comp room.
          > My experience with outdoor antennas was a long wire version..
          > I used coax the center strand was signal input.
          > The shield was ran to a drop outside for ground...
          > Had good results.. Used entirely for AM band.
          >
          > I've read long ago that if an external outdoor antenna is used the
          > Radio/Receiver needs to be grounded..
          >
          > Working on that premise.
          > Lets say I build a version of a loop antenna for SW,ok?
          > It is to be used as an outdoor antenna.
          > I intend to run coax as my input leadin.
          >
          > The way I understand this is that I need two,legs of input from
          the
          > loop antenna...
          > The antenna is not to be grounded...
          > With me so far ??
          >
          > Now if I use coax,and use both center and shield for the two legs
          > of signal input from antenna..
          > I intend to use a RS adapter,to break the coax back to RCA,for
          input.
          > How now...after this antenna setup connection,do I connect to the
          > radio to access a ground connection back to the outside ???
          > The outer shield on the RCA plug would be hard to try and
          connect
          > to,and besides it is being used as input from the loop antenna...
          > Would also connecting to it for ground,interfere with my antenna
          > signal??
          > I had thought of maybe,running a ground drop directly from the
          > shield connection at the antenna,but it was stated that the antenna
          > wasn't to be grounded...
          >
          > A perfect world would maybe have it,that I used both legs of the
          > coax for input signal,and ran a separate ground wire back outside..
          > Sounds simple enough....
          > Where on the radio would I connect the separate ground??
          >
          > I'm at a loss....figuring where to connect the ground wire.
          > Being at a loss,was a simple accomplishment actually....
          > I've been know to get askew some what easily....
          >
          > Thanks for any input.......
          >
        • cybercat321
          How about using a balun to connect from the loop antenna to the coax ? Or a similar type of isolation device (transformer). Sounds like the loop antenna is
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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            How about using a balun to connect from the loop antenna to the
            coax ? Or a similar type of isolation device (transformer). Sounds
            like the loop antenna is balanced (perhaps 300 ohms?) and the coax
            is definitely unbalanced feedline. Try one of the (broadband - works
            under 50 MHz) ones the cable companies use to connect cable to older
            tv sets. This will probably give a good match to the radio and also
            (in many cases) isolate the loop from the feedline so the coax
            shield can be grounded. Also, a lightning arrestor in the coax would
            DEFINITELY help - you could use the protection, anyway.
            - Bill H.

            --- In Sangean803@yahoogroups.com, "H.A.Marks" <cham@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all....
            > I have a hypothetical situation ...
            > That I've pondered,and really have no answer..
            > I'll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
            > input as to how to.....Suggestions.
            >
            > I'm no big SW enthusiast,nor a degreed electronics person.
            > I do own two 803a's,one's in the shop,the other is here in the
            comp room.
            > My experience with outdoor antennas was a long wire version..
            > I used coax the center strand was signal input.
            > The shield was ran to a drop outside for ground...
            > Had good results.. Used entirely for AM band.
            >
            > I've read long ago that if an external outdoor antenna is used
            the
            > Radio/Receiver needs to be grounded..
            >
            > Working on that premise.
            > Lets say I build a version of a loop antenna for SW,ok?
            > It is to be used as an outdoor antenna.
            > I intend to run coax as my input leadin.
            >
            > The way I understand this is that I need two,legs of input from
            the
            > loop antenna...
            > The antenna is not to be grounded...
            > With me so far ??
            >
            > Now if I use coax,and use both center and shield for the two
            legs
            > of signal input from antenna..
            > I intend to use a RS adapter,to break the coax back to RCA,for
            input.
            > How now...after this antenna setup connection,do I connect to
            the
            > radio to access a ground connection back to the outside ???
            > The outer shield on the RCA plug would be hard to try and
            connect
            > to,and besides it is being used as input from the loop antenna...
            > Would also connecting to it for ground,interfere with my antenna
            > signal??
            > I had thought of maybe,running a ground drop directly from the
            > shield connection at the antenna,but it was stated that the antenna
            > wasn't to be grounded...
            >
            > A perfect world would maybe have it,that I used both legs of the
            > coax for input signal,and ran a separate ground wire back outside..
            > Sounds simple enough....
            > Where on the radio would I connect the separate ground??
            >
            > I'm at a loss....figuring where to connect the ground wire.
            > Being at a loss,was a simple accomplishment actually....
            > I've been know to get askew some what easily....
            >
            > Thanks for any input.......
            >
          • cybercat321
            Diodes across the loop ? Yes and no. I think it would be better to put the diodes closer to the radio, across the feedline (coax) at the radio, or better yet,
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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              Diodes across the loop ?
              Yes and no.
              I think it would be better to put the diodes closer to the radio,
              across the feedline (coax) at the radio, or better yet, inside the
              radio. Installed at the loop, the diodes may not be as effective in
              draining off charges that can gather on the feedline. Besides...
              should a diode go bad, be it open, short or excess leakage... it's
              easier to change at the radio end than up on a roof or whatever.
              - Bill H. / va3hwa


              --- In Sangean803@yahoogroups.com, "Allan D Watson"
              <Allan.D.Watson@...> wrote:
              >
              > With a loop antenna no ground connection is needed for the signal,
              > but it would be sensible to fit a lightning arrestor for safety.
              The
              > connection to the lightning arrestor can be to the shield of your
              > coax.
              > A pair of diodes across the loop will also provide the receiver
              with
              > some protection against high voltage spikes induced in the loop by
              > lightning, high powered transmitters etc.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Sangean803@yahoogroups.com, "H.A.Marks" <cham@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi all....
              > > I have a hypothetical situation ...
              > > That I've pondered,and really have no answer..
              > > I'll present the case,as if it were the case,and would like some
              > > input as to how to.....Suggestions.
              > >
              > > I'm no big SW enthusiast,nor a degreed electronics person.
              > > I do own two 803a's,one's in the shop,the other is here in the
              > comp room.
              > > My experience with outdoor antennas was a long wire version..
              > > I used coax the center strand was signal input.
              > > The shield was ran to a drop outside for ground...
              > > Had good results.. Used entirely for AM band.
              > >
              > > I've read long ago that if an external outdoor antenna is used
              the
              > > Radio/Receiver needs to be grounded..
              > >
              > > Working on that premise.
              > > Lets say I build a version of a loop antenna for SW,ok?
              > > It is to be used as an outdoor antenna.
              > > I intend to run coax as my input leadin.
              > >
              > > The way I understand this is that I need two,legs of input
              from
              > the
              > > loop antenna...
              > > The antenna is not to be grounded...
              > > With me so far ??
              > >
              > > Now if I use coax,and use both center and shield for the two
              legs
              > > of signal input from antenna..
              > > I intend to use a RS adapter,to break the coax back to
              RCA,for
              > input.
              > > How now...after this antenna setup connection,do I connect to
              the
              > > radio to access a ground connection back to the outside ???
              > > The outer shield on the RCA plug would be hard to try and
              > connect
              > > to,and besides it is being used as input from the loop antenna...
              > > Would also connecting to it for ground,interfere with my
              antenna
              > > signal??
              > > I had thought of maybe,running a ground drop directly from the
              > > shield connection at the antenna,but it was stated that the
              antenna
              > > wasn't to be grounded...
              > >
              > > A perfect world would maybe have it,that I used both legs of
              the
              > > coax for input signal,and ran a separate ground wire back
              outside..
              > > Sounds simple enough....
              > > Where on the radio would I connect the separate ground??
              > >
              > > I'm at a loss....figuring where to connect the ground wire.
              > > Being at a loss,was a simple accomplishment actually....
              > > I've been know to get askew some what easily....
              > >
              > > Thanks for any input.......
              > >
              >
            • H.A.Marks
              Ok..... Thanks to all for the replies. My external antenna experience is limited to a suspended long wire version only.. At the time (a few years back)I had
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 4, 2008
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                Ok..... Thanks to all for the replies.

                My external antenna experience is limited to a suspended long wire
                version only..
                At the time (a few years back)I had plenty of info stating that I
                had to use a (chassis) ground for the radio,if using this antenna.....
                After a disappointing first attempt.
                I added a separate ground wire and there was immediate great
                improvement after connecting a chassis ground.
                I was happy.

                I had assumed that I would need a chassis ground with all external
                antennas....
                Hence my question....
                Reading the replies,they were mostly all surrounding the idea of
                adding feed line static/lightning discharge ground....
                This wasn't my intended area of ground...
                However it appears that with a loop antenna,I do not need to
                actually ground the radio chassis it self...
                I'm aware of the static build up problems associated with external
                antennas.. especially with the 803a and Dx-440.

                I was primarily asking about where to connect a chassis ground on
                the radio...
                Not the antenna,or lead in wire...
                If I had the RCA ground side tied up with incoming signal from the
                antenna I couldn't use that side for chassis ground...
                Hence I was asking where on the radio chassis I could attach a lead
                to run out to a ground..
                Most all screws on the 803a seem to be attached into the plastic
                body,and they wouldn't have served as a chassis ground point.
                So....I still didn't get any help as to where I could attach a
                chassis ground.
                I suppose the RCA ground side,is the only avail spot.
                Thanks again for the replies
              • cybercat321
                Choices for ground - that are easily to get at: - one side of speaker (neg) - at the headphones jack (shell) - outer side of external antenna RCA jack - DC
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 5, 2008
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                  Choices for ground - that are easily to get at:
                  - one side of speaker (neg)
                  - at the headphones jack (shell)
                  - outer side of external antenna RCA jack
                  - DC jack ring or battery pos ( + )
                  These are the easy ones for chassis ground.
                  Check the schematic (in the uploaded files section).
                  I could have said "point xyz at junction of ABC and DEF" - but
                  that's the hard way !!

                  - Bill H. / va3hwa



                  --- In Sangean803@yahoogroups.com, "H.A.Marks" <cham@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Ok..... Thanks to all for the replies.
                  >
                  > My external antenna experience is limited to a suspended long
                  wire
                  > version only..
                  > At the time (a few years back)I had plenty of info stating that I
                  > had to use a (chassis) ground for the radio,if using this
                  antenna.....
                  > After a disappointing first attempt.
                  > I added a separate ground wire and there was immediate great
                  > improvement after connecting a chassis ground.
                  > I was happy.
                  >
                  > I had assumed that I would need a chassis ground with all
                  external
                  > antennas....
                  > Hence my question....
                  > Reading the replies,they were mostly all surrounding the idea of
                  > adding feed line static/lightning discharge ground....
                  > This wasn't my intended area of ground...
                  > However it appears that with a loop antenna,I do not need to
                  > actually ground the radio chassis it self...
                  > I'm aware of the static build up problems associated with
                  external
                  > antennas.. especially with the 803a and Dx-440.
                  >
                  > I was primarily asking about where to connect a chassis ground on
                  > the radio...
                  > Not the antenna,or lead in wire...
                  > If I had the RCA ground side tied up with incoming signal from
                  the
                  > antenna I couldn't use that side for chassis ground...
                  > Hence I was asking where on the radio chassis I could attach a
                  lead
                  > to run out to a ground..
                  > Most all screws on the 803a seem to be attached into the plastic
                  > body,and they wouldn't have served as a chassis ground point.
                  > So....I still didn't get any help as to where I could attach a
                  > chassis ground.
                  > I suppose the RCA ground side,is the only avail spot.
                  > Thanks again for the replies
                  >
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