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Re: [Sailor_Uranus] Uranus and Neptune's love

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  • Emily Puckett
    Hi Alisa, I don t talk much on this list but I figured I d reply to this one and welcome you. I think that Haruka and Michiru s love is something that would
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 2, 2001
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      Hi Alisa, I don't talk much on this list but I figured
      I'd reply to this one and welcome you.

      I think that Haruka and Michiru's love is something
      that would have happened whether or not they were
      Uranus and Neptune, but I don't think it would have
      been as strong. They have a common LIFE as well as
      love and that makes them almost a single identity. I
      imagine they would have tried to be a couple had only
      one of them been a senshi. Michiru pursued Haruka even
      though she wasn't SURE that Haruka was Uranus, didn't
      she? So she had already fallen in love with Haruka.

      I wonder about whether they were lovers in the Silver
      Millennium-- did they even know eachother? Isn't it
      said that they didn't? How sad, considering the Inners
      got to hang around Princess Selenity/Usagi all the
      time even when they were small children.

      Emiko

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    • Emily Puckett
      Hi Alisa, I don t talk much on this list but I figured I d reply to this one and welcome you. I think that Haruka and Michiru s love is something that would
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 2, 2001
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        Hi Alisa, I don't talk much on this list but I figured
        I'd reply to this one and welcome you.

        I think that Haruka and Michiru's love is something
        that would have happened whether or not they were
        Uranus and Neptune, but I don't think it would have
        been as strong. They have a common LIFE as well as
        love and that makes them almost a single identity. I
        imagine they would have tried to be a couple had only
        one of them been a senshi. Michiru pursued Haruka even
        though she wasn't SURE that Haruka was Uranus, didn't
        she? So she had already fallen in love with Haruka.

        I wonder about whether they were lovers in the Silver
        Millennium-- did they even know eachother? Isn't it
        said that they didn't? How sad, considering the Inners
        got to hang around Princess Selenity/Usagi all the
        time even when they were small children.

        Emiko

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      • Charles Parker
        Cartoon network has informed people on the toonami mailing list that they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I m assuming that Cloverway will
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2, 2001
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          Cartoon network has informed people on the toonami mailing list that
          they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I'm assuming
          that Cloverway will continue on with their butchering and raping of
          the series, so I'm warning everyone here ahead of time.

          I, for the record, will not watch those episodes and will wait until
          the series is correctly and completely redubbed before buying it. As
          for the subtitle people, I have no idea when DVDs containing those
          episodes will be available and nor do I care.


          No offense to the subbies, but I will only buy correct, accurate
          English dubs and Sailor moon currently is not one of them.


          BTW, Amphirite, this is the news I was referring to aim, sorry I got
          disconnected, I'm having trouble with the phone company.

          And to the rest of you, I bid good day and good fortune.
        • Sailor Avalon
          ... Not to sound too skeptical or anything, but are you sure this isn t an April Fools joke? On a couple of other lists I m on, someone made up a fake email
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 2, 2001
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            Charles Parker <c_h_parker@...> wrote:
            > Cartoon network has informed people on the toonami mailing list that
            > they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I'm assuming
            > that Cloverway will continue on with their butchering and raping of
            > the series, so I'm warning everyone here ahead of time.

            Not to sound too skeptical or anything, but are you sure this isn't an April
            Fools joke? On a couple of other lists I'm on, someone made up a fake email
            saying Cloverway was planning to dub Stars, as a joke. The names they came
            up with for the Starlights were pretty funny. ^0^

            > No offense to the subbies, but I will only buy correct, accurate
            > English dubs and Sailor moon currently is not one of them.

            I believe that's the first time I've heard that expression ("subbies," not
            "correct, accurate English dubs," although the idea of one of those existing
            is pretty farfetched ^_~). Interesting choice of words. . . for some reason,
            it brings sandwiches to mind. ^_~

            Sailor Avalon
            michiru@...
            http://redrival.com/ekn/
          • Amphitrite001@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/2/2001 10:21:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... From all my resources, I can only say that there is no evidence that Stars is even liscenced
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 2, 2001
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              In a message dated 4/2/2001 10:21:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
              avalon@... writes:


              > Charles Parker <c_h_parker@...> wrote:
              > > Cartoon network has informed people on the toonami mailing list that
              > > they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I'm assuming
              > > that Cloverway will continue on with their butchering and raping of
              > > the series, so I'm warning everyone here ahead of time.
              >
              > Not to sound too skeptical or anything, but are you sure this isn't an April
              > Fools joke? On a couple of other lists I'm on, someone made up a fake email
              > saying Cloverway was planning to dub Stars, as a joke. The names they came
              > up with for the Starlights were pretty funny. ^0^

              From all my resources, I can only say that there is no evidence that Stars is
              even liscenced by an American company. I mean, surely Jackie Chiang would
              have something about this on her site if this was true. Plus, I'm a frequent
              visitor of www.animeondvd.com and haven't seen anything recently about it. I
              even checked the Grand High Licensing List at that site, which is basically
              the rundown of everything licensed of anime, by what companies, and where she
              found out about it, may it be con or official webpage. And nope, it's not
              there. Yes, S and SuperS are going to be shown in the UK. Yes, the original
              season is coming out on DVD via ADV (only DUB version, and if I can remember
              right, with the "missing" episodes, mind you). But no mention of Stars.
              This is why I was a bit WTF? when you IMed me asking if I knew the news about
              Stars, Charlie. Truth be told, I think you were just at the receiving end of
              a sortof humorous April Fools joke.

              >
              > > No offense to the subbies, but I will only buy correct, accurate
              > > English dubs and Sailor moon currently is not one of them.
              >
              > I believe that's the first time I've heard that expression ("subbies," not
              > "correct, accurate English dubs," although the idea of one of those existing
              > is pretty farfetched ^_~). Interesting choice of words. . . for some reason,
              > it brings sandwiches to mind. ^_~
              >
              > Sailor Avalon
              > michiru@...
              > http://redrival.com/ekn/
              >

              Oh, and for anyone who doesn't know, Charlie prefers his anime dubbed. But
              he only likes dubs that are "true to the original." Like Gundam Wing and
              Evangelion for instance. Although I think I won't be holding my breath for
              an unedited, uncut Card Captor Sakura or Haunted Junction dub. The subs do
              me just fine. ^^ Oh, and for those that *are* interested, amoung animes that
              *are* liscenced are Candidate for Goddess, Karekano, FLCL, both Fushigi Yuugi
              OAV series, the EVA movies and End of Evangelion, and Adolescence of Utena.
              ^^ Episodes 14-39 of Utena are still in negotiations, but CPM is still
              negotiating for rights to the rest of the series. And no, this isn't some
              cruel joke. ~.^ For the rest of the list or other news, just go to
              www.animeondvd.com/license/index.htm Have fun. ^^

              ~*Chibi-Michi*~

              ~ "There are two ways to handle a woman, and nobody knows either of them." --
              Kin Hubbard
              ~ "If The Scarlet Letter took place in modern times, Hester and the Reverend
              Arthur Dimmesdale would appear on talk show after talk show until they had
              whetted themselves into a kind of telegenic sharpness." -- Colin McEnroe
              ~ "When in doubt, make a fool of yourself. There is a microscopically thin
              line between being brilliantly creative and acting like the most gigantic
              idiot on earth. So what the hell, leap." -- Cynthia Heimel
              ~ "The only thing that prevents cats from killing us is that they're not big
              enough. But they'd love to." -- Mike Ryoko


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charles Parker
              its possible I was a victim of the april fools. Oh well. yes I do prefer my anime dubbed, my favorite series is Ranma 1/2. And I like Tenchi, Oh! my Goddess
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                its possible I was a victim of the april fools.

                Oh well.

                yes I do prefer my anime dubbed, my favorite series is Ranma 1/2. And
                I like Tenchi, Oh! my Goddess and others. I'm fast becoming a fan of
                Blue Seed.

                Three other series due to be ruined and in a store near you:

                1. Yu Yu hakusho.
                2. Blue Gender.
                3. Inital D (a racing anime I believe).

                All courtesy of Funimation productions.
              • Ten'ou Haruka
                ... that they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I m assuming that Cloverway will continue on with their butchering and raping of the series,
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                  "Sailor Avalon" <avalon@m...> wrote:

                  > Charles Parker <c_h_parker@h...> wrote:
                  > > Cartoon network has informed people on the toonami mailing list
                  that they have received at least 34 episodes of Sailor Stars. I'm
                  assuming that Cloverway will continue on with their butchering and
                  raping of the series, so I'm warning everyone here ahead of time.

                  > Not to sound too skeptical or anything, but are you sure this isn't
                  an April Fools joke? On a couple of other lists I'm on, someone made
                  up a fake email saying Cloverway was planning to dub Stars, as a
                  joke. The names they came up with for the Starlights were pretty
                  funny. ^0^

                  ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

                  I have to agree with Avalon. If Stars were Americanized, how would
                  the writers (translators, whatever) Explain the StarLights?
                  The American dubs have enough problems with lesbianism, (Though I
                  understand their reasoning) They could never explain... What would
                  the StarLights be called? They aren't hermaphrodites, they aren't
                  transgender or transsexuals.

                  Ten'ou Haruka
                  www.angelfire.com/anime2/haruka21

                  PS. Avalon, what were the names given to the StarLights, or could you
                  just send me the e-mail? I would be interested in reading it.

                  Ten'ou
                • akwaaengel27@aol.com
                  MINNA-SAN!! Why is everyone so scared of these new dubs/anticipated dubs? It s really not as bad as you think... I m sure there are plenty of other countries
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                    MINNA-SAN!!
                    Why is everyone so scared of these new dubs/anticipated dubs? It's really not
                    as bad as you think... I'm sure there are plenty of other countries who can
                    screw this up just as well as Cloverway has! Besides... no one is making
                    anyone watch it. I say invest yourself in a nice set of fan subs and stay
                    away from Carton Network for a while and just stop complaining. We know how
                    it -should- be, right? Good Day!

                    ~*Sailor AkwaAengel*~
                  • Charles Parker
                    In order: 1. Translation: There are very few words and phrases that have an exact Japanese to English translation. If you compare Fansubs by two different
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                      In order:

                      1. Translation: There are very few words and phrases that have an
                      exact Japanese to English translation. If you compare Fansubs by two
                      different people you'll notice they don't translate everything the
                      same. Another factor to keep in mind is that while you can get an a
                      literal translation of a line, you have to make sure it A)makes
                      senese and B) is able to fit in the 'lip-flap' time. If you notice in
                      the original Japanese versions (sailor moon included), the voices
                      often do not match up with the animation. This is in part due to time
                      constraints but also because lip-synching is not a high priority. To
                      its credit, the English Dub house for Sailor Moon, Optimun, uses a
                      different techinque from standard ADR for its dubbing. Its called
                      Rythym band and if you can compare the two versions (English and
                      Japanese) you'll notice, that while the translation is off and the
                      voice quality is debatable, the lip synch is actually better in the
                      English version.

                      2. As it relates to the possible april fools joke, I was under the
                      impression that the episodes to be shown dealt strictly with Queen
                      Nether (spelling?). They ended before the Starlights appeared.

                      3. There are many good, accurate and avialable English dubs. Some of
                      whom are superior to the original Japanese. The original Dirty pair
                      dubs for example.
                    • FuryBlade66@aol.com
                      ... the writers (translators, whatever) Explain the StarLights? The American dubs have enough problems with lesbianism, (Though I understand their reasoning)
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                        Ten'ou Haruka wrote:
                        >>I have to agree with Avalon. If Stars were Americanized, how would
                        the writers (translators, whatever) Explain the StarLights?
                        The American dubs have enough problems with lesbianism, (Though I
                        understand their reasoning) They could never explain... What would
                        the StarLights be called? They aren't hermaphrodites, they aren't
                        transgender or transsexuals.

                        That is a valid point, but remember when we thought they were going to change
                        the scene where FishEye bared himself( herself in the dub) to the fashion
                        company? They didn't change it. I'm not trying to back up Cloverway cause
                        they just plain suck. I'm saying have an open mind, maybe, just maybe the'll
                        do the right thing.

                        Semper Fi,
                        Kaze


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ten'ou Haruka
                        Kaze wrote: That is a valid point, but remember when we thought they were going to change the scene where FishEye bared himself( herself in the dub) to the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                          Kaze wrote:
                          That is a valid point, but remember when we thought they were going
                          to change the scene where FishEye bared himself( herself in the dub)
                          to the fashion company? They didn't change it. I'm not trying to back
                          up Cloverway cause they just plain suck. I'm saying have an open
                          mind, maybe, just maybe the'll do the right thing.

                          ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

                          I hadn't known that (What is it? SS?) had been dubed. When did this
                          happen?
                          How do they explaine FishEye? Since he takes off his shirt they can't
                          say he's a she. (Like they did with Zoicite)

                          Ten'ou Haruka
                          www.angelfire.com/anime2/haruka21
                        • Naia Zifu
                          I m a purist; it doesn t matter to me what language the dub is in or if it s better or worse than in English, I m still biased against it. I prefer to watch
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 3, 2001
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                            I'm a purist; it doesn't matter to me what language the dub is in or if it's
                            better or worse than in English, I'm still biased against it. I prefer to watch
                            anime in its original language, with all original voices, and all Japanese gags
                            and cultural references left intact, thank you. Dubbing hurts anime both as an
                            art form and as a means of teaching tolerance and understanding of another
                            culture!
                            I don't have CN and wouldn't watch it even if I had it. I do own fansubs
                            (not of all five series yet, but maybe eventually. . .) and I watch them
                            exclusively. But even if I avoid watching those awful dubs, I still can't get
                            away from them entirely, because every time I check my e-mail or look around the
                            Internet, I can't get away from people talking about it!
                            And no, not everyone knows how it should be. Lots of dubbies don't know that
                            what they're watching is not the real version, or if they know there's another
                            version, they don't care because they don't want to see anything that's not
                            dubbed, Americanised, and heavily-censored. And even if a dubbie gets curious
                            about the real version, when they try to find out about it by looking it up
                            online, there are so many rumours, lies, and pages full of wrong information
                            lying around, that it's hard for them to _ever_ know how it's really supposed to
                            be. That's the damage dubs do.
                            Now give one good reason why I would ever _not_ hate and complain about the
                            dubs!

                            akwaaengel27@... wrote:

                            > MINNA-SAN!!
                            > Why is everyone so scared of these new dubs/anticipated dubs? It's really not
                            > as bad as you think... I'm sure there are plenty of other countries who can
                            > screw this up just as well as Cloverway has! Besides... no one is making
                            > anyone watch it. I say invest yourself in a nice set of fan subs and stay
                            > away from Carton Network for a while and just stop complaining. We know how
                            > it -should- be, right? Good Day!
                            >
                            > ~*Sailor AkwaAengel*~

                            --
                            Naia Zifu
                            naia_zifu@...
                            tenou_haruka3@...
                            taiki@...

                            ICQ #22365735
                            AIM Naia Zifu, Chibi Taiki Kou

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                          • Eli Chang
                            ... Really? Hehe, I never watched the English version. However, about the lip-flap time, well... Because the anime is produced by Japanese, I think there
                            Message 13 of 18 , Apr 4, 2001
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                              >In order:
                              >
                              >1. Translation: There are very few words and phrases that have an
                              >exact Japanese to English translation. If you compare Fansubs by two
                              >different people you'll notice they don't translate everything the
                              >same. Another factor to keep in mind is that while you can get an a
                              >literal translation of a line, you have to make sure it A)makes
                              >senese and B) is able to fit in the 'lip-flap' time. If you notice in
                              >the original Japanese versions (sailor moon included), the voices
                              >often do not match up with the animation. This is in part due to time
                              >constraints but also because lip-synching is not a high priority. To
                              >its credit, the English Dub house for Sailor Moon, Optimun, uses a
                              >different techinque from standard ADR for its dubbing. Its called
                              >Rythym band and if you can compare the two versions (English and
                              >Japanese) you'll notice, that while the translation is off and the
                              >voice quality is debatable, the lip synch is actually better in the
                              >English version.


                              Really? Hehe, I never watched the English version. However, about the
                              "lip-flap" time, well... Because the anime is produced by Japanese, I think
                              there should be script before the anime comes out. The "movement of the
                              lips" should be made to fit the Japanese script. This is just what I think.
                              Maybe I never noticed or observed it carefully, but I can't remember the
                              seiyuu can't catch up with the "lips movement"...

                              However, it is a bit difficult in other countries. For example, if Usagi
                              has to call Haruka, there are 4 syllables "Ha-ru-ka san". But in Chinese
                              (Cantonese or Mandarin) it is just 2. In English, there are only 3, I think
                              (Amara?). So, due to the language difference, it is more difficult for the
                              voice actors in other countries in lip synch. Of course, to those
                              professional voice actors, it is not a problem at all. ^_^

                              >3. There are many good, accurate and avialable English dubs. Some of
                              >whom are superior to the original Japanese. The original Dirty pair
                              >dubs for example.

                              It depends how you view it. If you think the dub should be based on the
                              original series, then I think the English dub (N.A) of Sailormoon is surely
                              a bad dub even though I never watched it. (I have learnt quite a lot about
                              it from this mailing list). But if you don't think that the dub should
                              follow the original one. You view it as a different anime. Then, the
                              English dub of Sailormoon perhaps is a good one.

                              I hope the "superior" you meant is about the story, not the translation or
                              the delivery of the content of the anime. I think the other language
                              version of one anime would never be better than the original one (like
                              Sailormoon) in delivery of content. It's because the producers are
                              Japanese. They just deliver their idea in their own language, while the
                              seiyuu can understand more about the characters as they can directly discuss
                              the anime and the characters with the producers.

                              Eli
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                            • Jane Heisler
                              ... WOW! I agree with you whole heartidly. Sometimes i get sick of expalining my reasoning for prefering dubs and so I come off sounding like this unreasonable
                              Message 14 of 18 , Apr 4, 2001
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                                >I'm a purist; it doesn't matter to me what language the dub is in or if it's better or worse than in English, I'm still biased against it. I prefer to watch anime in its original language, with all original voices, and all Japanese gags and cultural references left intact, thank you. Dubbing hurts anime both as an>
                                >art form and as a means of teaching tolerance and understanding of another culture!I don't have CN and wouldn't watch it even if I had it.


                                WOW! I agree with you whole heartidly. Sometimes i get sick of expalining my reasoning for prefering dubs and so I come off sounding like this unreasonable person who dislikes dubs for no reason.(sorry if I did that before). You explained it perfectly. And it not only goes for anime, but all dubs. I was so happy when I discovered Crouching Tiger was subbed ^___^
                                I think its impossible to not lose things in the translation to dubs.



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                              • Charles Parker
                                ... on the original series, then I think the English dub (N.A) of Sailormoon is surely a bad dub even though I never watched it. (I have learnt quite a lot
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 5, 2001
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                                  --- In Sailor_Uranus@y..., "Eli Chang" <uranusmagician@h...> wrote:
                                  > It depends how you view it. If you think the dub should be based
                                  on the original series, then I think the English dub (N.A) of
                                  Sailormoon is surely a bad dub even though I never watched it. (I
                                  have learnt quite a lot about it from this mailing list). But if you
                                  don't think that the dub should follow the original one. You view it
                                  as a different anime. Then, the English dub of Sailormoon perhaps is
                                  a good one.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                                  Like I said, if you never knew the original existed and just watched
                                  the 'Cloverway version' than you might consider it pretty good. In
                                  sailor moon, (and Dragonball and cardcaptors) case, the English
                                  version isn't good BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO IT. Its good IN
                                  SPITE of what was done to it.



                                  > I hope the "superior" you meant is about the story, not the
                                  translation or the delivery of the content of the anime. I think the
                                  other language version of one anime would never be better than the
                                  original one (like Sailormoon) in delivery of content. It's because
                                  the producers are Japanese. They just deliver their idea in their
                                  own language, while the seiyuu can understand more about the
                                  characters as they can directly discuss the anime and the characters
                                  with the producers.
                                  >
                                  > Eli
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                                  Eli, the Streamline English Dubs were and are generally considered
                                  Superior to the Japanese versions acting wise. I strongly urge you to
                                  watch them if you can. Vampire Hunter D, I know just came out on DVD,
                                  and its amazing how much better the English cast is then the Japanese.
                                • soyan
                                  First of all, had to say sorry to Eli. I m back!! And,I m on your side!(What I mean is to support Ogata san & the original work of Sailormoon. I m anti-US
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Apr 5, 2001
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                                    First of all, had to say sorry to Eli.
                                    I'm back!! And,I'm on your side!(What I mean is to support Ogata san
                                    & the original work of Sailormoon. I'm anti-US version.)

                                    I'm back from Seiya!! (Actually, I had no money spend on the Seiya
                                    cel this month-->bought over 10!! bankrupt now, so I'm back to Haruka
                                    sama ^^6)

                                    > Like I said, if you never knew the original existed and just
                                    watched
                                    > the 'Cloverway version' than you might consider it pretty good. In
                                    > sailor moon, (and Dragonball and cardcaptors) case, the English
                                    > version isn't good BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO IT. Its good IN
                                    > SPITE of what was done to it.
                                    Yes,very good,Haruka & Michiru became cusion, Zoisite & Fisheye
                                    became a female,etc.....just VERY GREAT to saw this -_-ll

                                    Well,if they even got the Stars series into English,what would
                                    happen??
                                    How would they do to the transform part of Starlights??
                                    (Just cut it & ADD 3 sisters for the Three Lights??? that will kill
                                    me.)
                                    If Niiyama Shiho heard this, I think she'll jump out from her
                                    grave!!!!
                                    I'll only support the ORIGINAL JAPANESE version!



                                    > > I hope the "superior" you meant is about the story, not the
                                    > translation or the delivery of the content of the anime. I think
                                    the
                                    > other language version of one anime would never be better than the
                                    > original one (like Sailormoon) in delivery of content. It's
                                    because
                                    > the producers are Japanese. They just deliver their idea in their
                                    > own language, while the seiyuu can understand more about the
                                    > characters as they can directly discuss the anime and the
                                    characters
                                    > with the producers.
                                    Besides, they draw the cel,which is used for making the
                                    anime,according to the story line & the Seiyuu's talking speek too!
                                    So, there's little chance that the Lips didn't match the anime.

                                    But if it's an illegal dub copy from LD or else like that,
                                    then, the sound & the picture will get chance not matched.
                                    (due to the connection of the machine uesed in dubbing.

                                    Bye,
                                    Soyan
                                    (Eli,although my heart runs for Seiya, but I still keep a proportion
                                    for Haruka!!)
                                  • Charles Parker
                                    ... pretend for a second that you never saw the original Japanese version. Pretend that all you saw was the clover-sized version. What would you see? A
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 6, 2001
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                                      --- In Sailor_Uranus@y..., "soyan" <hamster_soyan@y...> wrote:

                                      > Yes,very good,Haruka & Michiru became cusion, Zoisite & Fisheye
                                      > became a female,etc.....just VERY GREAT to saw this -_-ll


                                      pretend for a second that you never saw the original Japanese version.

                                      Pretend that all you saw was the 'clover-sized' version. What would
                                      you see?

                                      A strong female character who enjoys competing AND beating men at
                                      things customarily dominated by men.

                                      Its things like that, yes this version is total trash compared to the
                                      original and to other 'real' anime dubs.

                                      BUT,

                                      If you never knew the original existed or just sat and watched it on
                                      its own, its not that bad.

                                      Take Robotech for example. If you never the original Macross and
                                      existed and all you ever saw was Robotech, you might agree that its a
                                      cool show. Now then if you found out about Macross and what happened
                                      to it your opinion might dramatically change. I personally prefer
                                      Robotech over Macross but, thats nostaliga for ya.

                                      Until recently, if you compared American versions of games like Final
                                      Fantasy to the original Japanese you'd find that the American ones
                                      while excellent just didn't match up to their Japanese counterparts.
                                      Now thats changed of course but it wasn't always like that. Final
                                      Fantasy 4, released here as Final Fantasy 2, is about 20% larger and
                                      harder in the original Japanese version. Same thing with Final
                                      Fantasy 6, released in the US as Final Fantasy 3, some things were
                                      cut and edited out. Now thankfully thats over, and in anime usually
                                      nothing is changed. It's highly unfortunate and a terrible thing that
                                      has happened to Sailor Moon, Dragonball, Cardcaptors, etc. Those
                                      series should NEVER have been changed, and I look forward to when
                                      they're redubbed correctly, accurately and properly by a real
                                      company. Til then I avoid them like the plague. But, to someone who
                                      never knew the original Japanese version existed or that there was
                                      one, they might find those shows to be the best thing on.

                                      Remember no matter how much they mangle it, short of totally re-
                                      drawing the series and completely re-writing every line, some hint of
                                      Naoko's original work WILL make it thru. Thats a testament to just
                                      how good the show was. It's good IN SPITE OF what they do to it.
                                    • Eli Chang
                                      ... Quite impossible... We are not living in N.A. We are just confused why Sailormoon is changed so much there while the Cantonese dub here isn t changed so
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 6, 2001
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                                        > > Yes,very good,Haruka & Michiru became cusion, Zoisite & Fisheye
                                        > > became a female,etc.....just VERY GREAT to saw this -_-ll
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >pretend for a second that you never saw the original Japanese >version.
                                        >Pretend that all you saw was the 'clover-sized' version. What would
                                        >you see?

                                        Quite impossible... We are not living in N.A. We are just confused why
                                        Sailormoon is changed so much there while the Cantonese dub here isn't
                                        changed so much at all. We are just confused. To us, it is quite strange
                                        to change the storyline of the original anime. If it is changed so much,
                                        well, is it still the same anime? But the dubbed one and the original one
                                        share the same title. Just weird...

                                        >A strong female character who enjoys competing AND beating men at
                                        >things customarily dominated by men.

                                        Which female character you mentioned above?

                                        >Its things like that, yes this version is total trash compared to the
                                        >original and to other 'real' anime dubs.
                                        >
                                        >BUT,
                                        >
                                        >If you never knew the original existed or just sat and watched it on
                                        >its own, its not that bad.

                                        I have said that. But, you still have to compare in order to know which one
                                        is good, and which one is bad. You never know it is bad if you never learn
                                        something better.

                                        >Remember no matter how much they mangle it, short of totally re-
                                        >drawing the series and completely re-writing every line, some hint of
                                        >Naoko's original work WILL make it thru. Thats a testament to just
                                        >how good the show was. It's good IN SPITE OF what they do to it.

                                        You are right. One will think it's good because they don't know about the
                                        original version. Therefore we here dislike the NA version, as we all know
                                        about the Japanese version. And in fact, the anime Sailormoon and manga
                                        Sailormoon (i.e. the so called Naoko's original work) can be viewed as
                                        entirely different work. I think you may expect that the 2 are very
                                        similar. They are not the same at all.

                                        Eli
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