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Re: [SabreSailboat] Genoa turning block - Sabre 28/ Answer

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  • sid_w@yahoo.com
    A turning block attached to the rail? That doesn t seem like it would handle the load. According to Harken: http://www.harkencompuspec.com/cgi-bin/cs303.exe,
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 2, 2007
      A turning block attached to the rail? That doesn't seem like it would
      handle the load.

      According to Harken: http://www.harkencompuspec.com/cgi-bin/cs303.exe, the
      max load on a genoa turning block for the S-28 is about 2200 lb. I would
      think that that could do some major damage to your bimini fitting.


      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: jack horner captbluwater@...
      Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 07:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Genoa turning block - Sabre 28/ Answer


      David, I have a sabre 28 also and I looked in awe of
      Ralph's early light and the Genoa blocks that are no
      longer made . I to want a rear of the
      winch mounting point too.. I have figured out that If
      a Harken ball baring block and get a rail clamp also
      harken .I can attack it to the base of my bimini
      fitting. I have seen this on other boats and I plan to
      do it this year. I can take pix if you wish.
      Jack/ Fla--- David Felsenthal
      <atlantea@...> wrote:

      > The standup block would scare me. The problem I have
      > is the the swivel
      > is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced
      > more then one shackle
      > used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The
      > foot block is brutally
      > simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
      >
      > Loads on your turning block may be in the thousands
      > of pounds at times.
      >
      > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/
      >
      > Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
      >
      > David
      >
      >
      > sid wax wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any
      > design other than the
      > > foot block mounted on the coaming described in an
      > earlier thread? I
      > > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block
      > right behind the track
      > > would be easier to mount, would not require
      > manufacturing any tapered
      > > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead
      > positions.
      > >
      > > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer
      > track-mounted block fail (broken
      > > strap) when it was moved too far back, so
      > apparently the loads are
      > > quite significant.
      > >
      > >
      >




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    • jack horner
      Sid , My mistake I intend to place the block in the base of the stern rail right at the base. The clamp is a SS with spring stand out and U bolt to go around
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 2, 2007
        Sid , My mistake I intend to place the block in the
        base of the stern rail right at the base. The clamp is
        a SS with spring stand out and U bolt to go around the
        I inch stern rail. I talked the sail maker and says
        figure on 2500 load. He says that the rail base will
        hold. I let you know how it works out Jack S 28,
        1981
        --- "sid_w@..." <sid_w@...> wrote:

        > A turning block attached to the rail? That doesn't
        > seem like it would
        > handle the load.
        >
        > According to Harken:
        > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/cgi-bin/cs303.exe,
        > the
        > max load on a genoa turning block for the S-28 is
        > about 2200 lb. I would
        > think that that could do some major damage to your
        > bimini fitting.
        >
        >
        > Original Message:
        > -----------------
        > From: jack horner captbluwater@...
        > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 07:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
        > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Genoa turning block -
        > Sabre 28/ Answer
        >
        >
        > David, I have a sabre 28 also and I looked in awe of
        > Ralph's early light and the Genoa blocks that are no
        > longer made . I to want a rear of the
        > winch mounting point too.. I have figured out that
        > If
        > a Harken ball baring block and get a rail clamp
        > also
        > harken .I can attack it to the base of my bimini
        > fitting. I have seen this on other boats and I plan
        > to
        > do it this year. I can take pix if you wish.
        > Jack/ Fla--- David Felsenthal
        > <atlantea@...> wrote:
        >
        > > The standup block would scare me. The problem I
        > have
        > > is the the swivel
        > > is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced
        > > more then one shackle
        > > used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The
        > > foot block is brutally
        > > simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
        > >
        > > Loads on your turning block may be in the
        > thousands
        > > of pounds at times.
        > >
        > > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/
        > >
        > > Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
        > >
        > > David
        > >
        > >
        > > sid wax wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any
        > > design other than the
        > > > foot block mounted on the coaming described in
        > an
        > > earlier thread? I
        > > > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block
        > > right behind the track
        > > > would be easier to mount, would not require
        > > manufacturing any tapered
        > > > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead
        > > positions.
        > > >
        > > > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer
        > > track-mounted block fail (broken
        > > > strap) when it was moved too far back, so
        > > apparently the loads are
        > > > quite significant.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ____________________________________________________________________________
        > ________
        > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
        > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
        > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
        >
        >
        >
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        > Linux web and application
        > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
        >
        >
        >




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      • sid wax
        OK, say I want to use a true foot block. If the foot block is on the side of the coaming, and not positioned in line with the track, won t there be problems
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 3, 2007
          OK, say I want to use a true foot block. If the foot block is on the
          side of the coaming, and not positioned in line with the track, won't
          there be problems of misalignment when the lead car is moved?

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, David Felsenthal <atlantea@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > The standup block would scare me. The problem I have is the the
          swivel
          > is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced more then one
          shackle
          > used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The foot block is
          brutally
          > simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
          >
          > Loads on your turning block may be in the thousands of pounds at
          times.
          >
          > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/
          >
          > Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
          >
          > David
          >
          >
          > sid wax wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any design other than
          the
          > > foot block mounted on the coaming described in an earlier thread?
          I
          > > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block right behind the
          track
          > > would be easier to mount, would not require manufacturing any
          tapered
          > > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead positions.
          > >
          > > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer track-mounted block fail
          (broken
          > > strap) when it was moved too far back, so apparently the loads are
          > > quite significant.
          > >
          > >
          >
        • David Felsenthal
          Sid - I don t know the geometry, so can t help. I bet the authors of the old thread would know though. David ... -- David Atlantea, Sabre 38 MKII
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 3, 2007
            Sid - I don't know the geometry, so can't help. I bet the authors of the
            old thread would know though.

            David


            sid wax wrote:
            >
            >
            > OK, say I want to use a true foot block. If the foot block is on the
            > side of the coaming, and not positioned in line with the track, won't
            > there be problems of misalignment when the lead car is moved?
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, David Felsenthal <atlantea@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> The standup block would scare me. The problem I have is the the
            > swivel
            >> is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced more then one
            > shackle
            >> used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The foot block is
            > brutally
            >> simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
            >>
            >> Loads on your turning block may be in the thousands of pounds at
            > times.
            >>
            >> http://www.harkencompuspec.com/ <http://www.harkencompuspec.com/>
            >>
            >> Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
            >>
            >> David
            >>
            >>
            >> sid wax wrote:
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any design other than
            > the
            >> > foot block mounted on the coaming described in an earlier thread?
            > I
            >> > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block right behind the
            > track
            >> > would be easier to mount, would not require manufacturing any
            > tapered
            >> > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead positions.
            >> >
            >> > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer track-mounted block fail
            > (broken
            >> > strap) when it was moved too far back, so apparently the loads are
            >> > quite significant.
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >

            --
            David
            Atlantea, Sabre 38 MKII
          • jack horner
            Sid, Yes I think a foot block would be safer but mounted on a wedge right under the little crook in the teak top plate the winch is mounted on AS per Early
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 3, 2007
              Sid, Yes I think a foot block would be safer but
              mounted on a wedge right under the little crook in the
              teak top plate the winch is mounted on AS per Early
              light there are pix there. I was hopeing to not re
              invent the wheel and custom two wedges out of 3/4 inch
              white starboard. A lot of educated guessing to get the
              angle correct and Ya still might have to trim the
              corner of the teak to get a fair lead.. Good luck
              Jack/ Fla
              --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:

              > OK, say I want to use a true foot block. If the
              > foot block is on the
              > side of the coaming, and not positioned in line with
              > the track, won't
              > there be problems of misalignment when the lead car
              > is moved?
              >
              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, David
              > Felsenthal <atlantea@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > The standup block would scare me. The problem I
              > have is the the
              > swivel
              > > is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced
              > more then one
              > shackle
              > > used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The
              > foot block is
              > brutally
              > > simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
              > >
              > > Loads on your turning block may be in the
              > thousands of pounds at
              > times.
              > >
              > > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/
              > >
              > > Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
              > >
              > > David
              > >
              > >
              > > sid wax wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any
              > design other than
              > the
              > > > foot block mounted on the coaming described in
              > an earlier thread?
              > I
              > > > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block
              > right behind the
              > track
              > > > would be easier to mount, would not require
              > manufacturing any
              > tapered
              > > > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead
              > positions.
              > > >
              > > > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer
              > track-mounted block fail
              > (broken
              > > > strap) when it was moved too far back, so
              > apparently the loads are
              > > > quite significant.
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >




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            • sid wax
              OK, I know that most of the S-28s do not have the discontinued Schaefer foot blocks that ralphjb described back in Sept. So how does everyone else run the
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 3, 2007
                OK, I know that most of the S-28s do not have the discontinued
                Schaefer foot blocks that ralphjb described back in Sept. So how
                does everyone else run the genoa sheets to the winch, and what kind
                of winches do you have?

                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, jack horner <captbluwater@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Sid, Yes I think a foot block would be safer but
                > mounted on a wedge right under the little crook in the
                > teak top plate the winch is mounted on AS per Early
                > light there are pix there. I was hopeing to not re
                > invent the wheel and custom two wedges out of 3/4 inch
                > white starboard. A lot of educated guessing to get the
                > angle correct and Ya still might have to trim the
                > corner of the teak to get a fair lead.. Good luck
                > Jack/ Fla
                > --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:
                >
                > > OK, say I want to use a true foot block. If the
                > > foot block is on the
                > > side of the coaming, and not positioned in line with
                > > the track, won't
                > > there be problems of misalignment when the lead car
                > > is moved?
                > >
                > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, David
                > > Felsenthal <atlantea@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > The standup block would scare me. The problem I
                > > have is the the
                > > swivel
                > > > is often stainless on stainless. I have replaced
                > > more then one
                > > shackle
                > > > used in a loaded swivel that has worn badly. The
                > > foot block is
                > > brutally
                > > > simple and reliable. I have bent foot blocks too.
                > > >
                > > > Loads on your turning block may be in the
                > > thousands of pounds at
                > > times.
                > > >
                > > > http://www.harkencompuspec.com/
                > > >
                > > > Is a useful tool for sizing the hardware.
                > > >
                > > > David
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > sid wax wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Has anyone added a genoa turning block of any
                > > design other than
                > > the
                > > > > foot block mounted on the coaming described in
                > > an earlier thread?
                > > I
                > > > > was thinking that adding a 2200 lb standup block
                > > right behind the
                > > track
                > > > > would be easier to mount, would not require
                > > manufacturing any
                > > tapered
                > > > > bases, and would line up at all jib-lead
                > > positions.
                > > > >
                > > > > I have had one of my ancient Schaefer
                > > track-mounted block fail
                > > (broken
                > > > > strap) when it was moved too far back, so
                > > apparently the loads are
                > > > > quite significant.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                ______________
                > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
                > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
                >
              • Carter Brey
                ... Sid, I ll be interested to see what you come up with. This is a problem that is really bugging me. Last season I simply would get up and re-route the sheet
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                  sid wax wrote:
                  > OK, I know that most of the S-28s do not have the discontinued
                  > Schaefer foot blocks that ralphjb described back in Sept. So how
                  > does everyone else run the genoa sheets to the winch, and what kind
                  > of winches do you have?
                  >
                  Sid,

                  I'll be interested to see what you come up with. This is a problem that
                  is really bugging me.

                  Last season I simply would get up and re-route the sheet around the
                  offending stanchion, but this is obviously not an elegant solution, and
                  means interrupting a nice sailing groove.

                  I've made many measurements and come to realize that even the
                  discontinued Schaeffer turning blocks with their angled bases do not
                  offer a truly fair lead. You'd have to cantilever a turning block out
                  from the coaming a ridiculous distance to achieve that. Also not an
                  elegant solution.

                  Thank God I have 987 other projects to occupy me in the meantime.

                  Oh, I nearly forgot: I steam-cleaned my engine compartment yesterday.
                  Found Jimmy Hoffa.

                  CB
                • gmuller22
                  ... that ... and ... What s the problem in getting a foot block, other than the cost? Rigging Only has them http://www.riggingonly.com/ORGANIZERFOOTLIFT04.htm
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007


                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > sid wax wrote:
                    > > OK, I know that most of the S-28s do not have the discontinued
                    > > Schaefer foot blocks that ralphjb described back in Sept. So how
                    > > does everyone else run the genoa sheets to the winch, and what kind
                    > > of winches do you have?
                    > >
                    > Sid,
                    >
                    > I'll be interested to see what you come up with. This is a problem that
                    > is really bugging me.
                    >
                    > Last season I simply would get up and re-route the sheet around the
                    > offending stanchion, but this is obviously not an elegant solution, and
                    > means interrupting a nice sailing groove.
                    >
                    > I've made many measurements and come to realize that even the
                    > discontinued Schaeffer turning blocks with their angled bases do not
                    > offer a truly fair lead. You'd have to cantilever a turning block out
                    > from the coaming a ridiculous distance to achieve that. Also not an
                    > elegant solution.
                    >
                    > Thank God I have 987 other projects to occupy me in the meantime.
                    >
                    > Oh, I nearly forgot: I steam-cleaned my engine compartment yesterday.
                    > Found Jimmy Hoffa.
                    >
                    > CB
                    >

                    What's the problem in getting a foot block, other than the cost? Rigging Only has them http://www.riggingonly.com/ORGANIZERFOOTLIFT04.htm.

                    And as to Hoffa, no you didn't find him. He happens to be in stable condition resting peacefully somewhere around location B6 in the Garden State Plaza Mall parking plot. I know this true because my friend No Neck Al from Newark regularly updates me on his condition.

                  • Gib Metcalf
                    I have the footblocks on my S28. I didn t know what they were for until reading a thread on them last year. As I recall, the point of the blocks was to get
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                      I have the footblocks on my S28.  I didn't know what they were for until reading a thread on them last year.  As I recall, the point of the blocks was to get an appropriate angle for the sheet to enter the winch drum.  Not being an engineer, I did not fully understand the logic but dutifully began using the blocks.  I saw no real advantage except that the lazy sheet is less apt to go overboard if a figure 8 knot is tied in the end (catches in the footblock).  Not a compelling reason, I'm sure.  As for the stanchion, it did not solve the problem of needing to rethread the sheet if you move the genoa block.
                      Gib Metcalf
                      Troubadour S28-446
                      Salem, Ma

                      Carter Brey wrote:

                      sid wax wrote:
                      > OK, I know that most of the S-28s do not have the discontinued
                      > Schaefer foot blocks that ralphjb described back in Sept. So how
                      > does everyone else run the genoa sheets to the winch, and what kind
                      > of winches do you have?
                      >
                      Sid,

                      I'll be interested to see what you come up with. This is a problem that
                      is really bugging me.

                      Last season I simply would get up and re-route the sheet around the
                      offending stanchion, but this is obviously not an elegant solution, and
                      means interrupting a nice sailing groove.

                      I've made many measurements and come to realize that even the
                      discontinued Schaeffer turning blocks with their angled bases do not
                      offer a truly fair lead. You'd have to cantilever a turning block out
                      from the coaming a ridiculous distance to achieve that. Also not an
                      elegant solution.

                      Thank God I have 987 other projects to occupy me in the meantime.

                      Oh, I nearly forgot: I steam-cleaned my engine compartment yesterday.
                      Found Jimmy Hoffa.

                      CB

                    • Carter Brey
                      ... Gerard, in referring to the Schaeffer turning block with angled base, Sid and I were describing what was actually a custom (and long since discontinued)
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                        gmuller22 wrote:
                        >
                        > What's the problem in getting a foot block, other than the cost?
                        > Rigging Only has them http://www.riggingonly.com/ORGANIZERFOOTLIFT04.htm.
                        >
                        > And as to Hoffa, no you didn't find him. He happens to be in stable
                        > condition resting peacefully somewhere around location B6 in the
                        > Garden State Plaza Mall parking plot. I know this true because my
                        > friend No Neck Al from Newark regularly updates me on his condition.
                        >
                        >
                        Gerard, in referring to the Schaeffer turning block with angled base,
                        Sid and I were describing what was actually a custom (and long since
                        discontinued) foot block installed by Sabre on some, but not all, 28's
                        in the '70's and '80's. It was a halfhearted (and not always installed)
                        acknowledgment that the peculiar arrangement of hull shape, toerail
                        genoa track, stanchion placement and coaming shape on the 28 makes it
                        quite difficult to achieve a fair lead to a foot block from all
                        locations of the genoa lead car along the toerail track. The
                        discontinued item had a base that not only projected but had something
                        like a 45-degree angle in it (as most foot blocks are mounted to a
                        moulded-in angle in the coaming). Despite its unique geometry, it still
                        fails to achieve a completely fair lead, as Gib Metcalf points out.

                        Simply slapping a foot block from Rigging Only, or anyone else, onto the
                        coaming in the usual position would create as many problems as it would
                        solve. The genoa sheet would still rub against the center lifeline
                        stanchion with the lead car all the way forward, and would also,
                        regardless of the lead car position, cause the sheet to chafe against
                        the outer edge of the teak coaming cap. And you would have eight useless
                        new holes in your boat.

                        We forgive Roger Hewson. Despite his little peccadillo, he made a great
                        boat. We'll put on our thinking caps and work around it.

                        If that wasn't Jimmy Hoffa, then... hmmm... Frederick Noonan? George
                        Mallory? Jerry Mathers?

                        Carter Brey
                        S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                        City Island, NY
                      • sid wax
                        Well put, Carter. I think I have found a solution, a Harken 6065 57 mm teardrop block, (lists for $57) attached to the deck behind the track with a heavy- duty
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                          Well put, Carter.

                          I think I have found a solution, a Harken 6065 57 mm teardrop block,
                          (lists for $57) attached to the deck behind the track with a heavy-
                          duty padeye. It should be able to take the forces involved, will
                          swivel at will, and has no shackles or straps. The whole setup
                          should cost under $200.

                          I am still interested in other solutions, and am interested in what
                          sort of genoa winches forlks are using. The original 1-speed Barlow
                          20s, multispeed, self-tailer, or what. I am using the Barlow winches
                          with Winchers. The Winchers catch the line really well, but they
                          make tacking a bit of a pain.

                          Sid
                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > gmuller22 wrote:
                          > >
                          > > What's the problem in getting a foot block, other than the cost?
                          > > Rigging Only has them
                          http://www.riggingonly.com/ORGANIZERFOOTLIFT04.htm.
                          > >
                          > > And as to Hoffa, no you didn't find him. He happens to be in
                          stable
                          > > condition resting peacefully somewhere around location B6 in the
                          > > Garden State Plaza Mall parking plot. I know this true because my
                          > > friend No Neck Al from Newark regularly updates me on his
                          condition.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > Gerard, in referring to the Schaeffer turning block with angled
                          base,
                          > Sid and I were describing what was actually a custom (and long
                          since
                          > discontinued) foot block installed by Sabre on some, but not all,
                          28's
                          > in the '70's and '80's. It was a halfhearted (and not always
                          installed)
                          > acknowledgment that the peculiar arrangement of hull shape, toerail
                          > genoa track, stanchion placement and coaming shape on the 28 makes
                          it
                          > quite difficult to achieve a fair lead to a foot block from all
                          > locations of the genoa lead car along the toerail track. The
                          > discontinued item had a base that not only projected but had
                          something
                          > like a 45-degree angle in it (as most foot blocks are mounted to a
                          > moulded-in angle in the coaming). Despite its unique geometry, it
                          still
                          > fails to achieve a completely fair lead, as Gib Metcalf points out.
                          >
                          > Simply slapping a foot block from Rigging Only, or anyone else,
                          onto the
                          > coaming in the usual position would create as many problems as it
                          would
                          > solve. The genoa sheet would still rub against the center lifeline
                          > stanchion with the lead car all the way forward, and would also,
                          > regardless of the lead car position, cause the sheet to chafe
                          against
                          > the outer edge of the teak coaming cap. And you would have eight
                          useless
                          > new holes in your boat.
                          >
                          > We forgive Roger Hewson. Despite his little peccadillo, he made a
                          great
                          > boat. We'll put on our thinking caps and work around it.
                          >
                          > If that wasn't Jimmy Hoffa, then... hmmm... Frederick Noonan?
                          George
                          > Mallory? Jerry Mathers?
                          >
                          > Carter Brey
                          > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                          > City Island, NY
                          >
                        • gmuller22
                          ... the ... would ... useless ... Heaven forbid that anything would be allowed to be slapped on . If it isn t costly and pain producing in its installation,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007


                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Simply slapping a foot block from Rigging Only, or anyone else, onto the
                            > coaming in the usual position would create as many problems as it would
                            > solve. The genoa sheet would still rub against the center lifeline
                            > stanchion with the lead car all the way forward, and would also,
                            > regardless of the lead car position, cause the sheet to chafe against
                            > the outer edge of the teak coaming cap. And you would have eight useless
                            > new holes in your boat.
                            >
                            Heaven forbid that anything would be allowed to be "slapped on". If it isn't costly and pain producing in its installation, why bother? We're talking boats here! I presumed that the base would be a compound angle piece of aged teak rescued from a beached schooner that was worked by a Norwegian woodsmith especially imported for this purpose. As to the stanchion being in the way, with your profession I would have assumed that you would have known that all you had to do was bow it!

                            > If that wasn't Jimmy Hoffa, then... hmmm... Frederick Noonan? George
                            > Mallory? Jerry Mathers?

                            Twasn't Noonan, he's with Amelia making luggage in one of the outer islands of New Guina. Mallory was found decades after his Everest attempt, a little worse for wear, but after a decent interval of thawing pronounced that , "He was ready to give it another go.". And as for Jerry Mathers, after leaving Leave It To Beaver he achieved his artistic peak in recent years doing Jenny Craig commercials.

                            Gerard

                          • sandusky_sabre
                            You might want to replace those Barlows with a new Lewmar 32 ST or even a Lewmar 40 ( used on ebay about $200 ea for non ST). If you have a kevlar laminate
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                              You might want to replace those Barlows with a new Lewmar 32 ST or
                              even a Lewmar 40 ( used on ebay about $200 ea for non ST). If you have
                              a kevlar laminate sail, high tech sheets and halyards, nothing
                              stretches much as the wind increases which puts a lot of load on the
                              winches. I would hate to try to crank in my #1 when the apparent is
                              17knots with those old Barlows. The reason for putting foot blocks on
                              is that overrides are almost guaranteed with the angle from the lead
                              blocks on the rail. I had some teak mounting platforms made with the
                              proper angle. I am using some older design high load shaefer foot
                              blocks. The loads on these blocks is quite high, almost double what
                              the lead block loads.
                            • Carter Brey
                              ... Any photos of those mounting platforms? Sid, my primaries are Lewmar 40 2-speed ST s. Mr. Sandusky Sabre is right, it s a good size for the boat. Self
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                                sandusky_sabre wrote:
                                > You might want to replace those Barlows with a new Lewmar 32 ST or
                                > even a Lewmar 40 ( used on ebay about $200 ea for non ST). If you have
                                > a kevlar laminate sail, high tech sheets and halyards, nothing
                                > stretches much as the wind increases which puts a lot of load on the
                                > winches. I would hate to try to crank in my #1 when the apparent is
                                > 17knots with those old Barlows. The reason for putting foot blocks on
                                > is that overrides are almost guaranteed with the angle from the lead
                                > blocks on the rail. I had some teak mounting platforms made with the
                                > proper angle. I am using some older design high load shaefer foot
                                > blocks. The loads on these blocks is quite high, almost double what
                                > the lead block loads.
                                >
                                >
                                Any photos of those mounting platforms?

                                Sid, my primaries are Lewmar 40 2-speed ST's. Mr. Sandusky Sabre is
                                right, it's a good size for the boat. Self tailers make life beautiful.
                                If you spend the money for an upgrade, don't go half way.

                                Carter
                              • jack horner
                                Carter, Looks just like my 1981 Saber 28 I can t get track cars to run on the old track that size is not made any more. So I took my old cars and blocks to
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                                  Carter, Looks just like my 1981 Saber 28 I can't get
                                  track cars to run on the old track that size is not
                                  made any more. So I took my old cars and blocks to JSI
                                  in Largo and they cut the old stand up blocks off and
                                  re welded new Schaffer Ball bearing blocks in there
                                  place. so my only option is a Turning block to the
                                  side of the comming and make a big wedge. But not of
                                  teak, I'm not looking for more work maybe thick
                                  starboard or Stainless. I have 40's lewmar ST which
                                  were just re chromed. It never ends, and I would be
                                  said if it did. Its a sailor thing !!! Jack/ Fla
                                  --- Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:

                                  > sandusky_sabre wrote:
                                  > > You might want to replace those Barlows with a new
                                  > Lewmar 32 ST or
                                  > > even a Lewmar 40 ( used on ebay about $200 ea for
                                  > non ST). If you have
                                  > > a kevlar laminate sail, high tech sheets and
                                  > halyards, nothing
                                  > > stretches much as the wind increases which puts a
                                  > lot of load on the
                                  > > winches. I would hate to try to crank in my #1
                                  > when the apparent is
                                  > > 17knots with those old Barlows. The reason for
                                  > putting foot blocks on
                                  > > is that overrides are almost guaranteed with the
                                  > angle from the lead
                                  > > blocks on the rail. I had some teak mounting
                                  > platforms made with the
                                  > > proper angle. I am using some older design high
                                  > load shaefer foot
                                  > > blocks. The loads on these blocks is quite high,
                                  > almost double what
                                  > > the lead block loads.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > Any photos of those mounting platforms?
                                  >
                                  > Sid, my primaries are Lewmar 40 2-speed ST's. Mr.
                                  > Sandusky Sabre is
                                  > right, it's a good size for the boat. Self tailers
                                  > make life beautiful.
                                  > If you spend the money for an upgrade, don't go half
                                  > way.
                                  >
                                  > Carter
                                  >




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                                • Richard Peirce
                                  I just discovered a very interesting web site so I thought I d share it with the group. Perhaps this is not new for you but I found it to be a really
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 4, 2007
                                    I just discovered a very interesting web site so I thought I'd share it with the group.  Perhaps this is not new for you but I found it to be a really interesting and informative read.

                                    It's basically a collection of accident reports from merchant, fishing, and recreational boating accidents. (complete with sometimes gruesome pictures)  The full accident reports from each are also available but I found the safety digests to be the best.  There is a lot that can be learned from the mistakes of others!  Some of the stories I found to be quite unbelievable - you know, people vying for top prize in the Darwin Awards.

                                    If you haven't been there, check it out:



                                    r
                                     
                                    richard peirce             
                                    HACIENDA II      |    Sabre 34 Targa   Hull #384      |     http://www.casita.ca        |       THSC Toronto



                                  • Grant Woodside
                                    We are improving our safety at sea. Please reccomend something to read. Grant
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 25, 2008
                                      We are improving our safety at sea. Please reccomend something to read.

                                      Grant
                                    • Neil Russell
                                      Bill Seifert s book. --Neil Whisper S362-266 Salem MA
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 25, 2008
                                        Bill Seifert's book.

                                        --Neil
                                        "Whisper"
                                        S362-266
                                        Salem MA

                                        On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Grant Woodside wrote:

                                        We are improving our safety at sea. Please reccomend something to read.

                                        Grant


                                      • Gib Metcalf
                                        Sailing in Windy Weather by Richard Henderson
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 25, 2008
                                          "Sailing in Windy Weather" by Richard Henderson

                                          Neil Russell wrote:

                                          Bill Seifert's book.


                                          --Neil
                                          "Whisper"
                                          S362-266
                                          Salem MA

                                          On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Grant Woodside wrote:

                                          We are improving our safety at sea. Please reccomend something to read.

                                          Grant


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