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Re: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts

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  • Jim Starkey
    ... Absolutely. The point of the exercise was to make a moving map display. Depending on whether there s a position sprite showing, either your position
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 2, 2006
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      Tom & Rose wrote:

      > Jim,
      >
      > I've downloaded all the charts I can think I'll need, covering all of
      > Chesapeake Bay, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair River where we used
      > to live, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River where we used to
      > live, and much of the Atlantic Coast, Florida Keys, Puerto Rico and
      > the Virgin Islands where we hope to cruise someday.
      >
      > I downloaded the FREE Maptech Chart Navigator programs which looks
      > good, is pretty easy to manage and allows me to create Routes and
      > download to my GPS, measure distances, etc., but does not allow me to
      > monitor my current position using GPS. From your description I assume
      > your program allows real time tracking using GPS and a laptop. I'm
      > not sure how much I need that feature but would like to play with it
      > based on your offer.

      Absolutely. The point of the exercise was to make a moving map
      display. Depending on whether there's a position sprite showing, either
      your position stays in the middle and the chart moves or the chart stays
      put and the position icon moves. Or display two windows side by side
      with different scales. The program automatically changes charts if you
      try to sail off the screen, moves to higher or lower scaled charts,
      keeps a track, and displays tides, sunrise, and sunsets. But I haven't
      figured out phases on the moon yet, so you'll just have to look out.

      >
      > What would one need to do to get a copy of your program? (besides the
      > Mount Gay of course!)

      I just tweaked the chart loading module to handle the free charts. I
      also should fix it to load directly from the zip files distributed by
      NOAA and track down a glitch in the USB code. Then I'll either email
      out kits or may just post it on the yahoo group site. So give me two or
      three weeks and I'll have something to send around.


      --

      Jim Starkey
      Netfrastructure, Inc.
      978 526-1376
    • Tom & Rose
      Sounds great Jim. We usually keep a bottle of MG onboard, but I don t think you are on the Chesapeake are you? _____ From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 2, 2006
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        Sounds great Jim.  We usually keep a bottle of MG onboard, but I don't think you are on the Chesapeake are you?


        From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Starkey
        Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:51 PM
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts

        Tom & Rose wrote:

        > Jim,

        >
        I've downloaded all the charts I can think I'll need, covering all of
        >
        Chesapeake Bay, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair River where we used
        > to
        live, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River where we used to
        > live,
        and much of the Atlantic Coast, Florida Keys, Puerto Rico and
        > the
        Virgin Islands where we hope to cruise someday.

        > I
        downloaded the FREE Maptech Chart Navigator programs which looks
        > good,
        is pretty easy to manage and allows me to create Routes and
        > download to
        my GPS, measure distances, etc., but does not allow me to
        > monitor my
        current position using GPS.  From your description I assume
        > your
        program allows real time tracking using GPS and a laptop.  I'm
        > not
        sure how much I need that feature but would like to play with it
        > based
        on your offer.

        Absolutely.  The point of the exercise was to make a moving map
        display.  Depending on whether there's a position sprite showing, either
        your position stays in the middle and the chart moves or the chart stays
        put and the position icon moves.  Or display two windows side by side
        with different scales.  The program automatically changes charts if you
        try to sail off the screen, moves to higher or lower scaled charts,
        keeps a track, and displays tides, sunrise, and sunsets.  But I haven't
        figured out phases on the moon yet, so you'll just have to look out.


        > What would one need to do to get a copy of your
        program? (besides the
        > Mount Gay of course!)

        I just tweaked the chart loading module to handle the free charts.  I
        also should fix it to load directly from the zip files distributed by
        NOAA and track down a glitch in the USB code.  Then I'll either email
        out kits or may just post it on the yahoo group site.  So give me two or
        three weeks and I'll have something to send around.


        --

        Jim Starkey
        Netfrastructure, Inc.
        978 526-1376

      • Peter Tollini
        Jim - You are a gentleman and a scholar, and fine judge of rum. If we cross paths in NE or on the Chesapeake, you re on, because we seldom travel (read never
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 2, 2006
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          Jim –

          You are a gentleman and a scholar, and fine judge of rum.  If we cross paths in NE or on the Chesapeake, you’re on, because we seldom travel (read never sail)  without Mt. Gay.

          Pete

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Starkey
          Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:51 PM
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts

           

          Tom & Rose wrote:

          > Jim,

          > I've downloaded all the charts I can think I'll need, covering all of
          > Chesapeake Bay, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair River where we used
          > to live, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River where we used to
          > live, and much of the Atlantic Coast, Florida Keys, Puerto Rico and
          > the Virgin Islands where we hope to cruise someday.

          > I downloaded the FREE Maptech Chart Navigator programs which looks
          > good, is pretty easy to manage and allows me to create Routes and
          > download to my GPS, measure distances, etc., but does not allow me to
          > monitor my current position using GPS.  From your description I assume
          > your program allows real time tracking using GPS and a laptop.  I'm
          > not sure how much I need that feature but would like to play with it
          > based on your offer.

          Absolutely.  The point of the exercise was to make a moving map
          display.  Depending on whether there's a position sprite showing, either
          your position stays in the middle and the chart moves or the chart stays
          put and the position icon moves.  Or display two windows side by side
          with different scales.  The program automatically changes charts if you
          try to sail off the screen, moves to higher or lower scaled charts,
          keeps a track, and displays tides, sunrise, and sunsets.  But I haven't
          figured out phases on the moon yet, so you'll just have to look out.


          > What would one need to do to get a copy of your program? (besides the
          > Mount Gay of course!)

          I just tweaked the chart loading module to handle the free charts.  I
          also should fix it to load directly from the zip files distributed by
          NOAA and track down a glitch in the USB code.  Then I'll either email
          out kits or may just post it on the yahoo group site.  So give me two or
          three weeks and I'll have something to send around.


          --

          Jim Starkey
          Netfrastructure, Inc.
          978 526-1376


        • Daniel Trainor
          I am also in the process of downloading free NOAA RNC (BSB) charts - a region at a time. Very cool. I am a long time user of MapTech Nav software - Currently
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 2, 2006
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            I am also in the process of downloading free NOAA RNC (BSB) charts - a region at a time.  Very cool.  I am a long time user of MapTech Nav software - Currently using Offshore Navigator (OSN) 5.07 software - Great features - easy to use.  Now that the gov is finally releasing RNC (BSB version 3) chart data  to public directly, I can save $200 / year to update charts from MapTech.  The other news is that recently Maptech has made some kind of partnering / value added distribution relationship with  a new company called NavSoftware.   NavSoftware is a small LLC - a few ex-Microsoft guys -  despite thier former affliation - they make a very nice navigation program that handles both RNC (BSB raster version 3) and ENC (new S57 vector) chart formats. Maptech will be adding their own proprietary GIS data (3D, Photo, Topo, ... and apparently some wx features to this Coastal Explorer 1.1  program and redistributing as thier own brand called  "Chart Navigator Pro".  It is not clear that the existing Maptech Offshore Navigator (OSN) will continue to have any future upgrades.  So, I may switch over to Coastal Explorer 1.1  or Maptech's version of same "Chart Navigator Pro", once the ENC charts have better coverage and quality.  Otherwise, the price $399 is not worth the switch from OSN at the present time until ENC data matures.  Thats my update on those that are using Maptech software -  ofcourse many other vendors to choose from.  And many new developments to follow in NOAA GIS world in general.  Good new here is that apprarently some GIS data RNC and ENC formats are being made available to public for free as we are enjoying dowloading now - they have become a commodity almost overnight and and vendors are moving quickely to climb up the value-added food chain.  It should be interesting to see what happens in next 6 months - especially with some talk of integration of Google Earth / World Wind and other sat nav based GIS systems for  use with marine nav applications.   Digitized / Vectorized / Picturized (Virtual w/ 3D ) charts with real-time tracking of your boat and all AIS enabled boats in poximity with Radar and Wx data overlayed to boot. Its getting really wild!
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: 1/2/2006 4:29:02 PM
            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts

            Jim,
             
            I've downloaded all the charts I can think I'll need, covering all of Chesapeake Bay, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair River where we used to live, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River where we used to live, and much of the Atlantic Coast, Florida Keys, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands where we hope to cruise someday.
             
            I downloaded the FREE Maptech Chart Navigator programs which looks good, is pretty easy to manage and allows me to create Routes and download to my GPS, measure distances, etc., but does not allow me to monitor my current position using GPS.  From your description I assume your program allows real time tracking using GPS and a laptop.  I'm not sure how much I need that feature but would like to play with it based on your offer. 
             
            What would one need to do to get a copy of your program? (besides the Mount Gay of course!)
             

            Tom
            1980 Sabre 30   #12
            "Imagination"
            Chesapeake Bay (MD)


            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Starkey
            Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:42 PM
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts

            I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free downloadable
            charts.  The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are upwards
            compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer attribute
            headers and additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad specmanship,
            the new charts violate the original specification, so older charting
            programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB considers
            their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they let
            you in their developers program.  Their deep secret is run length
            encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If anyone is actually curious,
            the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated by
            cr/lf.  Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.

            The license for charts is bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are legal
            for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated vessels
            under federal regulation and international convention.  You can also
            redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
            however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I guess they
            trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command.  Oh, well.

            If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I and a
            number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the rocks in
            Maine.  It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm looking
            forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time.  It
            speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just added
            USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial adaptors),
            though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on a notebook at the
            nav station for primary navigation.  When cruising, we almost always put
            together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm, giving the
            helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture.  The problem with the
            software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy charts
            that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing of
            the past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey, every
            business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably free,
            too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my program, I expect a
            drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted).  If there are any C++
            programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
            edges, even better.

            --

            Jim Starkey
            Netfrastructure, Inc.
            978 526-1376

          • Grant Woodside
            Very interesting reading about Rum. http://www.mountgay.com/ Grant ...
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 2, 2006
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              Very interesting reading about Rum.
              http://www.mountgay.com/
              Grant

              --- Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:

              > Jim -
              >
              > You are a gentleman and a scholar, and fine judge of
              > rum. If we cross paths
              > in NE or on the Chesapeake, you're on, because we
              > seldom travel (read never
              > sail) without Mt. Gay.
              >
              > Pete
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of Jim Starkey
              > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:51 PM
              > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Downloadable Charts
              >
              >
              >
              > Tom & Rose wrote:
              >
              > > Jim,
              > >
              > > I've downloaded all the charts I can think I'll
              > need, covering all of
              > > Chesapeake Bay, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair
              > River where we used
              > > to live, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River
              > where we used to
              > > live, and much of the Atlantic Coast, Florida
              > Keys, Puerto Rico and
              > > the Virgin Islands where we hope to cruise
              > someday.
              > >
              > > I downloaded the FREE Maptech Chart Navigator
              > programs which looks
              > > good, is pretty easy to manage and allows me to
              > create Routes and
              > > download to my GPS, measure distances, etc., but
              > does not allow me to
              > > monitor my current position using GPS. From your
              > description I assume
              > > your program allows real time tracking using GPS
              > and a laptop. I'm
              > > not sure how much I need that feature but would
              > like to play with it
              > > based on your offer.
              >
              > Absolutely. The point of the exercise was to make a
              > moving map
              > display. Depending on whether there's a position
              > sprite showing, either
              > your position stays in the middle and the chart
              > moves or the chart stays
              > put and the position icon moves. Or display two
              > windows side by side
              > with different scales. The program automatically
              > changes charts if you
              > try to sail off the screen, moves to higher or lower
              > scaled charts,
              > keeps a track, and displays tides, sunrise, and
              > sunsets. But I haven't
              > figured out phases on the moon yet, so you'll just
              > have to look out.
              >
              > >
              > > What would one need to do to get a copy of your
              > program? (besides the
              > > Mount Gay of course!)
              >
              > I just tweaked the chart loading module to handle
              > the free charts. I
              > also should fix it to load directly from the zip
              > files distributed by
              > NOAA and track down a glitch in the USB code. Then
              > I'll either email
              > out kits or may just post it on the yahoo group
              > site. So give me two or
              > three weeks and I'll have something to send around.
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              > Jim Starkey
              > Netfrastructure, Inc.
              > 978 526-1376
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              >
              > * Visit your group "Sabresailboat
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat> " on
              > the web.
              >
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
              > email to:
              > Sabresailboat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              <mailto:Sabresailboat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              >
              >
              >
              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > the Yahoo!
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >
            • gmuller22
              Jim, Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It takes lat/lon input
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 3, 2006
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                Jim,

                Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                Gerard


                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                >
                > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                downloadable
                > charts. The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                upwards
                > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                attribute
                > headers and additional headers. Unfortunately, due to bad
                specmanship,
                > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                charting
                > programs need to be modified to use the free charts. BSB
                considers
                > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                let
                > you in their developers program. Their deep secret is run length
                > encoding for pixels on a raster line. If anyone is actually
                curious,
                > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                by
                > cr/lf. Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                >
                > The license for charts is bizarre. The charts as downloaded are
                legal
                > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                vessels
                > under federal regulation and international convention. You can
                also
                > redistribute them to your heart's content. A redistributed file,
                > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels. I
                guess they
                > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command. Oh,
                well.
                >
                > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                and a
                > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                rocks in
                > Maine. It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                looking
                > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time.
                It
                > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol. I just
                added
                > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                adaptors),
                > though it isn't completely solid yet. We use it on a notebook at
                the
                > nav station for primary navigation. When cruising, we almost
                always put
                > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                giving the
                > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture. The problem with
                the
                > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                charts
                > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                of
                > the past. Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                every
                > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                free,
                > too). Well, not completely free. If you use my program, I expect
                a
                > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted). If there are any
                C++
                > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                > edges, even better.
                >
                > --
                >
                > Jim Starkey
                > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                > 978 526-1376
                >
              • mike.merriman@comcast.net
                The only issue with GoogleEarth is that the map details are often based on older imagery. ... From: gmuller22 Jim, Speaking of free
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 3, 2006
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                  The only issue with GoogleEarth is that the map details are often based on older imagery. 
                   
                  -------------- Original message --------------
                  From: "gmuller22" <gmuller22@...>
                  Jim,

                  Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                  about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                  takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                  views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                  tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                  on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                  and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                  coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                  other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                  could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                  around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                  your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                  good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                  Gerard


                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                  downloadable
                  > charts.  The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                  upwards
                  > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                  attribute
                  > headers and additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad
                  specmanship,
                  > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                  charting
                  > programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB
                  considers
                  > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                  let
                  > you in their developers program.  Their deep secret is run length
                  > encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If anyone is actually
                  curious,
                  > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                  by
                  > cr/lf.  Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                  >
                  > The license for charts is bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are
                  legal
                  > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                  vessels
                  > under federal regulation and international convention.  You can
                  also
                  > redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
                  > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I
                  guess they
                  > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command.  Oh,
                  well.
                  >
                  > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                  and a
                  > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                  rocks in
                  > Maine.  It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                  looking
                  > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time. 
                  It
                  > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just
                  added
                  > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                  adaptors),
                  > though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on a notebook at
                  the
                  > nav station for primary navigation.  When cruising, we almost
                  always put
                  > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                  giving the
                  > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture.  The problem with
                  the
                  > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                  charts
                  > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                  of
                  > the past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                  every
                  > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                  free,
                  > too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my program, I expect
                  a
                  > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted).  If there are any
                  C++
                  > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                  > edges, even better.
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > Jim Starkey
                  > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                  > 978 526-1376
                  >





                • Jim Starkey
                  ... Well, I have this problem of broadband Internet on the boat... I ve got some excellent leads re cell phone amplifiers and data cards, but I m not sure
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 3, 2006
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                    gmuller22 wrote:

                    > Jim,
                    >
                    > Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                    > about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                    > takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                    > views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                    > tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                    > on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                    > and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                    > coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                    > other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                    > could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                    > around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                    > your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                    > good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!
                    >
                    Well, I have this problem of broadband Internet on the boat... I've got
                    some excellent leads re cell phone amplifiers and data cards, but I'm
                    not sure that will work in the South China Sea. And given the age of
                    the Google Earth images, I'm not sure I'm prepared to rely on it for
                    pirate avoidance. Or even glacier avoidance.

                    Have you looked at http://local.live.com? Zoom down and select "bird's
                    eye view". It will blow your socks off.

                    --

                    Jim Starkey
                    Netfrastructure, Inc.
                    978 526-1376
                  • Richard Peirce
                    For about $6000, you can have the whole Google Earth library on your computer. Might have to get a little bigger hard drive though! richard peirce CASITA
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 3, 2006
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                      For about $6000, you can have the whole Google Earth library on your computer.  Might have to get a little bigger hard drive though!

                      richard peirce            
                      CASITA        |    Sabre 28MKII  Hull #469          |     http://www.sabre28.com  |      http://www.casita.ca         |         THSC Toronto




                      On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:34 PM, Jim Starkey wrote:

                      gmuller22 wrote:

                      > Jim,
                      >
                      > Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                      > about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                      > takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                      > views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                      > tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                      > on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                      > and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                      > coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                      > other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                      > could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                      > around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                      > your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                      > good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!
                      >
                      Well, I have this problem of broadband Internet on the boat...  I've got
                      some excellent leads re cell phone amplifiers and data cards, but I'm
                      not sure that will work in the South China Sea.  And given the age of
                      the Google Earth images, I'm not sure I'm prepared to rely on it for
                      pirate avoidance.  Or even glacier avoidance.

                      Have you looked at http://local.live.com?  Zoom down and select "bird's
                      eye view".  It will blow your socks off.

                      --

                      Jim Starkey
                      Netfrastructure, Inc.
                      978 526-1376



                      SPONSORED LINKS
                      Boating sailing Sailing Sabre
                      Boating


                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS





                    • Dan
                      This is exactly what folks are working on now - integration with google earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you can get a 3D
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 4, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        This is exactly what folks are working on now  - integration with google earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you can get a "3D virtualized" view from your boats lat/long position at any angle to the horizon.  The virtualization would be created from actual sat photos.  As you said, with split screen you can display a traditional NOAA chart along side from best of both worlds.  Too Cool.


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: gmuller22
                        Sent: Jan 3, 2006 1:06 PM
                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                        Jim,

                        Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                        about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                        takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                        views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                        tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                        on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                        and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                        coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                        other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                        could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                        around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                        your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                        good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                        Gerard


                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                        downloadable
                        > charts.  The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                        upwards
                        > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                        attribute
                        > headers and additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad
                        specmanship,
                        > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                        charting
                        > programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB
                        considers
                        > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                        let
                        > you in their developers program.  Their deep secret is run length
                        > encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If anyone is actually
                        curious,
                        > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                        by
                        > cr/lf.  Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                        >
                        > The license for charts is bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are
                        legal
                        > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                        vessels
                        > under federal regulation and international convention.  You can
                        also
                        > redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
                        > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I
                        guess they
                        > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command.  Oh,
                        well.
                        >
                        > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                        and a
                        > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                        rocks in
                        > Maine.  It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                        looking
                        > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time. 
                        It
                        > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just
                        added
                        > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                        adaptors),
                        > though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on a notebook at
                        the
                        > nav station for primary navigation.  When cruising, we almost
                        always put
                        > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                        giving the
                        > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture.  The problem with
                        the
                        > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                        charts
                        > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                        of
                        > the past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                        every
                        > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                        free,
                        > too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my program, I expect
                        a
                        > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted).  If there are any
                        C++
                        > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                        > edges, even better.
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > Jim Starkey
                        > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                        > 978 526-1376
                        >







                        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                      • Tom & Rose
                        One of our marina friends bought a new Sea Ray 39 foot sport cruiser last fall. It has a system like you guys are describing. In fact, the owner was
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 4, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          One of our marina friends bought a new Sea Ray 39 foot sport cruiser last fall.  It has a system like you guys are describing.  In fact, the owner was describing it to me like it was a live image of his boat in a satellite view.  Silly stink boaters.  After pushing him a little he realized that was not feasible, but it is cool to be able to see your little boat icon on the sat photo or the nav chart with the flip of a switch.
                           
                          Tom


                          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:17 PM
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                          This is exactly what folks are working on now  - integration with google earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you can get a "3D virtualized" view from your boats lat/long position at any angle to the horizon.  The virtualization would be created from actual sat photos.  As you said, with split screen you can display a traditional NOAA chart along side from best of both worlds.  Too Cool.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: gmuller22
                          Sent: Jan 3, 2006 1:06 PM
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                          Jim,

                          Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                          about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                          takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                          views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                          tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                          on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                          and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                          coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                          other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                          could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                          around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                          your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                          good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                          Gerard


                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I finally got a chance to look
                          at the innards of the free
                          downloadable
                          > charts.  The charts
                          are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                          upwards
                          > compatible from
                          earlier versions the provision for longer
                          attribute
                          > headers and
                          additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad
                          specmanship,
                          >
                          the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                          charting
                          > programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB
                          considers
                          > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough
                          money they
                          let
                          > you in their developers program.  Their deep
                          secret is run length
                          > encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If
                          anyone is actually
                          curious,
                          > the header section of the file consists
                          of header lines terminated
                          by
                          > cr/lf.  Following the Ascii
                          stuff are the raster bits.
                          >
                          > The license for charts is
                          bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are
                          legal
                          > for navigation
                          and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                          vessels
                          > under federal
                          regulation and international convention.  You can
                          also
                          >
                          redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
                          >
                          however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I
                          guess they
                          > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command. 
                          Oh,
                          well.
                          >
                          > If anyone is interested, I have
                          charting/navigation program that I
                          and a
                          > number of friends have
                          been using to find the gaps between the
                          rocks in
                          > Maine.  It
                          uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                          looking
                          > forward to
                          tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time. 
                          It
                          >
                          speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just
                          added
                          > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                          adaptors),
                          > though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on
                          a notebook at
                          the
                          > nav station for primary navigation.  When
                          cruising, we almost
                          always put
                          > together a route, then download the
                          route to the GPS at helm,
                          giving the
                          > helmsman an autonomous view of
                          the big picture.  The problem with
                          the
                          > software in the past
                          has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                          charts
                          > that our tax
                          dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                          of
                          > the
                          past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                          every
                          > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                          free,
                          > too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my
                          program, I expect
                          a
                          > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay
                          accepted).  If there are any
                          C++
                          > programmers out there that
                          want to add features or knock off rough
                          > edges, even better.
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          > Jim Starkey
                          > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                          >
                          978 526-1376
                          >







                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                        • yaf001
                          Some powerboats, the larger and most expensive ones, are indeed equipped with live satellite image viewing.. with trackball zoom functions allowing the chap
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 4, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Some powerboats, the larger and most expensive ones, are indeed equipped with live satellite image viewing…… with trackball zoom functions allowing the chap with the scrambled eggs on his visor standing on the flying bridge to actually increase the magnification and see himself from on high J

                             

                            Of course we ragbaggers don’t have all that sophisticated gear, which requires at least a 20KW auxiliary generator J

                            Yves

                             

                            PS: Incidentally, for anyone who’s interested, “Aeroseek” Real time flight tracking online, also has an autolink function to Google Earth so you can track an airline flight right on the 3D sat views!

                             


                            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tom & Rose
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:30 PM
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                             

                            One of our marina friends bought a new Sea Ray 39 foot sport cruiser last fall.  It has a system like you guys are describing.  In fact, the owner was describing it to me like it was a live image of his boat in a satellite view.  Silly stink boaters.  After pushing him a little he realized that was not feasible, but it is cool to be able to see your little boat icon on the sat photo or the nav chart with the flip of a switch.

                             

                            Tom

                             


                            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:17 PM
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                            This is exactly what folks are working on now  - integration with google earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you can get a "3D virtualized" view from your boats lat/long position at any angle to the horizon.  The virtualization would be created from actual sat photos.  As you said, with split screen you can display a traditional NOAA chart along side from best of both worlds.  Too Cool.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: gmuller22
                            Sent: Jan 3, 2006 1:06 PM
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                            Jim,

                            Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                            about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                            takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                            views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                            tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                            on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                            and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                            coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                            other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                            could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                            around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                            your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                            good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                            Gerard


                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com , Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                            downloadable
                            > charts.  The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                            upwards
                            > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                            attribute
                            > headers and additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad
                            specmanship,
                            > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                            charting
                            > programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB
                            considers
                            > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                            let
                            > you in their developers program.  Their deep secret is run length
                            > encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If anyone is actually
                            curious,
                            > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                            by
                            > cr/lf.  Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                            >
                            > The license for charts is bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are
                            legal
                            > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                            vessels
                            > under federal regulation and international convention.  You can
                            also
                            > redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
                            > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I
                            guess they
                            > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command.  Oh,
                            well.
                            >
                            > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                            and a
                            > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                            rocks in
                            > Maine .  It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                            looking
                            > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time. 
                            It
                            > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just
                            added
                            > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                            adaptors),
                            > though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on a notebook at
                            the
                            > nav station for primary navigation.  When cruising, we almost
                            always put
                            > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                            giving the
                            > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture.  The problem with
                            the
                            > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                            charts
                            > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                            of
                            > the past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                            every
                            > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                            free,
                            > too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my program, I expect
                            a
                            > drink if we meet cruising ( Mount Gay accepted).  If there are any
                            C++
                            > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                            > edges, even better.
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > Jim Starkey
                            > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                            > 978 526-1376
                            >







                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                             

                             




                             

                          • Daniel Trainor
                            Even in cases where sat photos are dated, the shoreline features down change all that much over time - unless your in New Orleans :) But those sat photos were
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 4, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Even in cases where sat photos are dated, the shoreline features down change all that much over time - unless your in New Orleans :)  But those sat photos were updated 3-4 days after hurricane hit.   The really cool concept is using whatever GIS data you have (USCG surveys, NOAA data, sat photos, or whatever) to construct a [reasonably up-to-date] virtual 3D image of the world around you - above the water (shore line) and below he water (3D bathometric view).  The virtual image should be able to be viewed from any compass bearing relative to your boat and any angle of degree from the horizon.   Whats really cool about that is you can look at virtualized image on screen and match it up with the shape of land around you - for example you may see a small island with a high bluff on your port side - now look at virtualized image at a small angle to horizon - yep I see same picture (albeit abit out-dated).  Now, I spit screen and look at depth contours in 3D or spit screen and look at a more traditional (flat) NOAA marine navigation chart - this NOAA chart would be the one you ultimately rely on for navigation.  The others give interesting supporting data and context,
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: 1/4/2006 9:29:48 PM
                              Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                              One of our marina friends bought a new Sea Ray 39 foot sport cruiser last fall.  It has a system like you guys are describing.  In fact, the owner was describing it to me like it was a live image of his boat in a satellite view.  Silly stink boaters.  After pushing him a little he realized that was not feasible, but it is cool to be able to see your little boat icon on the sat photo or the nav chart with the flip of a switch.
                               
                              Tom


                              From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:17 PM
                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                              This is exactly what folks are working on now  - integration with google earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you can get a "3D virtualized" view from your boats lat/long position at any angle to the horizon.  The virtualization would be created from actual sat photos.  As you said, with split screen you can display a traditional NOAA chart along side from best of both worlds.  Too Cool.


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: gmuller22
                              Sent: Jan 3, 2006 1:06 PM
                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts

                              Jim,

                              Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                              about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                              takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                              views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                              tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                              on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                              and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                              coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                              other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                              could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                              around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                              your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                              good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!

                              Gerard


                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                              downloadable
                              > charts.  The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                              upwards
                              > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                              attribute
                              > headers and additional headers.  Unfortunately, due to bad
                              specmanship,
                              > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                              charting
                              > programs need to be modified to use the free charts.   BSB
                              considers
                              > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                              let
                              > you in their developers program.  Their deep secret is run length
                              > encoding for pixels on a raster line.  If anyone is actually
                              curious,
                              > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                              by
                              > cr/lf.  Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                              >
                              > The license for charts is bizarre.  The charts as downloaded are
                              legal
                              > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                              vessels
                              > under federal regulation and international convention.  You can
                              also
                              > redistribute them to your heart's content.  A redistributed file,
                              > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels.  I
                              guess they
                              > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command.  Oh,
                              well.
                              >
                              > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                              and a
                              > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                              rocks in
                              > Maine.  It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                              looking
                              > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time. 
                              It
                              > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol.  I just
                              added
                              > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                              adaptors),
                              > though it isn't completely solid yet.  We use it on a notebook at
                              the
                              > nav station for primary navigation.  When cruising, we almost
                              always put
                              > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                              giving the
                              > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture.  The problem with
                              the
                              > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                              charts
                              > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                              of
                              > the past.  Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                              every
                              > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                              free,
                              > too).  Well, not completely free.  If you use my program, I expect
                              a
                              > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted).  If there are any
                              C++
                              > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                              > edges, even better.
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > Jim Starkey
                              > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                              > 978 526-1376
                              >







                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                            • Eric
                              Tom: It might be feasible if you have the right connections at the National Reconaissance Office and a lot of bandwidth . . . Eric Sabre 30 #36 Spirit West
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Tom:

                                It might be feasible if you have the right connections at the National
                                Reconaissance Office and a lot of bandwidth . . .

                                Eric
                                Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                                West River, MD

                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Tom & Rose" <sailking2@c...> wrote:
                                >
                                > One of our marina friends bought a new Sea Ray 39 foot sport cruiser
                                last
                                > fall. It has a system like you guys are describing. In fact, the
                                owner was
                                > describing it to me like it was a live image of his boat in a satellite
                                > view. Silly stink boaters. After pushing him a little he realized
                                that was
                                > not feasible, but it is cool to be able to see your little boat icon
                                on the
                                > sat photo or the nav chart with the flip of a switch.
                                >
                                > Tom
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
                                > On Behalf Of Dan
                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:17 PM
                                > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts
                                >
                                >
                                > This is exactly what folks are working on now - integration with google
                                > earth. When integrated with marine nav software, as you said, you
                                can get a
                                > "3D virtualized" view from your boats lat/long position at any angle
                                to the
                                > horizon. The virtualization would be created from actual sat
                                photos. As
                                > you said, with split screen you can display a traditional NOAA chart
                                along
                                > side from best of both worlds. Too Cool.
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: gmuller22
                                > Sent: Jan 3, 2006 1:06 PM
                                > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Downloadable Charts
                                >
                                > Jim,
                                >
                                > Speaking of free services, have you or your stalwart fellows thought
                                > about incorporating Google Earth into your nifty nav system? It
                                > takes lat/lon input and has a navigation mode so that the satellite
                                > views can track with the GPS chart locations. Couple that with the
                                > tilt feature on Google Earth and you could not only preview a trip
                                > on a chart but could look around at the same time on a split screen
                                > and familiarize ones self with shore features. I believe the
                                > coverage includes the US and most of North America as well lots of
                                > other parts of the world you might want to go to. Just think, you
                                > could chart a route through South China Sea and be able to look
                                > around while not worrying about pirates. Closer to home, I looked at
                                > your home port, Marblehead I recall, and found the resolution was
                                > good enough to enable counting the moorings in your harbor!
                                >
                                > Gerard
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@n...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I finally got a chance to look at the innards of the free
                                > downloadable
                                > > charts. The charts are mostly BSB version 3 and 4, which are
                                > upwards
                                > > compatible from earlier versions the provision for longer
                                > attribute
                                > > headers and additional headers. Unfortunately, due to bad
                                > specmanship,
                                > > the new charts violate the original specification, so older
                                > charting
                                > > programs need to be modified to use the free charts. BSB
                                > considers
                                > > their format proprietary and secret, though for enough money they
                                > let
                                > > you in their developers program. Their deep secret is run length
                                > > encoding for pixels on a raster line. If anyone is actually
                                > curious,
                                > > the header section of the file consists of header lines terminated
                                > by
                                > > cr/lf. Following the Ascii stuff are the raster bits.
                                > >
                                > > The license for charts is bizarre. The charts as downloaded are
                                > legal
                                > > for navigation and chart carriage requirements for regulated
                                > vessels
                                > > under federal regulation and international convention. You can
                                > also
                                > > redistribute them to your heart's content. A redistributed file,
                                > > however, is not legal for navigation on regulated vessels. I
                                > guess they
                                > > trust ftp and winzip more than they trust the copy command. Oh,
                                > well.
                                > >
                                > > If anyone is interested, I have charting/navigation program that I
                                > and a
                                > > number of friends have been using to find the gaps between the
                                > rocks in
                                > > Maine. It uses the BSB format for raster chart, though I'm
                                > looking
                                > > forward to tackling the ENC vector format when I find the time.
                                > It
                                > > speaks both NMEA 183 and the Garmin proprietary protocol. I just
                                > added
                                > > USB support this summer (both direct and through USB/serial
                                > adaptors),
                                > > though it isn't completely solid yet. We use it on a notebook at
                                > the
                                > > nav station for primary navigation. When cruising, we almost
                                > always put
                                > > together a route, then download the route to the GPS at helm,
                                > giving the
                                > > helmsman an autonomous view of the big picture. The problem with
                                > the
                                > > software in the past has been the need to pay Maptech $225 to buy
                                > charts
                                > > that our tax dollars had already paid for, but that is now a thing
                                > of
                                > > the past. Now, everything is free (except the notebook, but hey,
                                > every
                                > > business turns 'em over over couple of years, so that's probably
                                > free,
                                > > too). Well, not completely free. If you use my program, I expect
                                > a
                                > > drink if we meet cruising (Mount Gay accepted). If there are any
                                > C++
                                > > programmers out there that want to add features or knock off rough
                                > > edges, even better.
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > >
                                > > Jim Starkey
                                > > Netfrastructure, Inc.
                                > > 978 526-1376
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • Jim Starkey
                                ... Or just run reverse-IP through your cell phone through the NSA to the NRO... All you have to do is mutter something about celebrating Ramadan and the link
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 5, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Eric wrote:

                                  > Tom:
                                  >
                                  > It might be feasible if you have the right connections at the National
                                  > Reconaissance Office and a lot of bandwidth . . .
                                  >
                                  Or just run reverse-IP through your cell phone through the NSA to the
                                  NRO... All you have to do is mutter something about celebrating Ramadan
                                  and the link is active.

                                  --

                                  Jim Starkey
                                  Netfrastructure, Inc.
                                  978 526-1376
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