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Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

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  • sid wax
    I usually use Boatlife, but you have to be careful with it in visible spots, cause it tends to yellow quite badly. Another tip that I never think of until I
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
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      I usually use Boatlife, but you have to be careful with it in visible
      spots, cause it tends to yellow quite badly. Another tip that I
      never think of until I am midway through a caulking job is to figure
      out what kind of solvent you should have on hand for cleanup...
      before you get the stuff all over the place. ;*)

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sid,
      >
      > 3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifeseal are excellent compounds that are used
      for
      > bedding hardware; they are flexible and non-permanent. 3M 4200 is a
      > polysulfide. Lifeseal is a hybrid combining properties of
      polysulfide
      > and silicone. 4200 should be used judiciously since polysulfides
      can
      > attack some plastics.
      >
      > I've also started using 3M 4000 for bedding tasks in situations
      where
      > the sealant is exposed to sunlight, like chainplates. It's UV-
      resistant,
      > or so they claim.
      >
      > The one property all adhesive/sealants have in common is that they
      are
      > incredibly messy and hard to control. Don't wear your Guccis while
      > handling them.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Carter Brey
      > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
      > City Island, NY
      >
      > sid wax wrote:
      > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the companionway, it probably
      is
      > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to fix. The 3 inch
      long
      > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so the joint is
      likely
      > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk, pull out the
      > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both sides. One
      was
      > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really scary until I
      > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest repair on the
      boat.
      > >
      > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in the deck that
      need
      > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the balsa core, so
      a
      > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
      > >
      > > In any event, I have been advised against using 5200 for
      caulking.
      > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and it is extremely
      > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a favor to a
      future
      > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a recommendation for an
      > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
      > >
      >
    • Peter Tollini
      For a bedding compound I ve gotten two divergent suggestions. 3M tech folks now recommend 4000UV for bedding deck hardware - it did well in Practical sailor s
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        For a bedding compound I've gotten two divergent suggestions.  3M tech folks now recommend 4000UV for bedding deck hardware - it did well in Practical sailor's testing as well.  Sabre now beds deck hardware with GE Silpruf, according to Glen.  Problem is, Silpruf is not a consumer product, so finding it takes a little resourcefulness.
        Also, the yard techs say that pinpointing a deck leak in a boat with an overhead liner will drive you a little buggo.  And they are a major Sabre service facility.
        Pete

         
        On 12/4/06, Bob Burns <bjburns@...> wrote:

        I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most stress. Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits; then the stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd do everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing bungs from the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is worn down and replacing the bungs could be a pia.

         

        Bob

        S28 #305

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of creeksailer
        Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com

        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

         

        Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water drips down from a couple
        of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it could easily be coming from
        one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or (ack!) it could come
        from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else. The last fix I tried was
        sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out by hand). After sealing
        both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy rain the pilot berth
        cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.

        Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend, I'll try again.

        Roger

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce <richard@...> wrote:
        >
        > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper. Sometimes
        > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the edge
        > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint. Might
        > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
        >
        > r
        >
        > richard peirce
        > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
        > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
        >
        >
        > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
        >
        > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a few
        > > things, but I'm beginning to
        > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be redone.
        > > From in side the cabin I
        > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is falling
        > > out. I wonder if I can fix
        > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
        > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
        > > successfully with this problem?
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Roger
        >


      • sid wax
        Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the former, I wouldn t think that would leak into the cabin. If the latter, that is a a really
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the
          former, I wouldn't think that would leak into the cabin. If the
          latter, that is a a really likely culprit.

          About the bungs: My surveyor suggested that I rebed my hand-rails,
          but I'm putting that job off for as long as possible, cause the
          thought of replacing all those bungs is scary. But it is not a job
          that I can let go for too long. I don't think that just running a
          bead along the edge will buy me much time.

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burns" <bjburns@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're
          > accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most
          stress.
          > Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits;
          then the
          > stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd
          do
          > everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing
          bungs from
          > the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is
          worn down
          > and replacing the bungs could be a pia.
          >
          >
          >
          > Bob
          >
          > S28 #305
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of creeksailer
          > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
          > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak
          >
          >
          >
          > Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water
          drips down
          > from a couple
          > of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it
          could easily
          > be coming from
          > one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or
          (ack!) it
          > could come
          > from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else.
          The last
          > fix I tried was
          > sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out
          by
          > hand). After sealing
          > both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy
          rain the
          > pilot berth
          > cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.
          >
          > Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend,
          I'll try
          > again.
          >
          > Roger
          >
          > --- In Sabresailboat@ <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce <richard@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper.
          Sometimes
          > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the
          edge
          > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint.
          Might
          > > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
          > >
          > > r
          > >
          > > richard peirce
          > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
          > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
          > >
          > >
          > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
          > >
          > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a
          few
          > > > things, but I'm beginning to
          > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be
          redone.
          > > > From in side the cabin I
          > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is
          falling
          > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
          > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
          > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
          > > > successfully with this problem?
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > > Roger
          > >
          >
        • Peter Tollini
          Another quote from a tech in the boatyard... That sh.... can walk 10 feet! Also, vinyl gloves. When they get covered toss em and put on a fresh pair. Pete
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Another quote from a tech in the boatyard...
            "That sh.... can walk 10 feet!"
             
            Also, vinyl gloves.  When they get covered toss 'em and put on a fresh pair.
             
            Pete

             
            On 12/4/06, sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:

            I usually use Boatlife, but you have to be careful with it in visible
            spots, cause it tends to yellow quite badly. Another tip that I
            never think of until I am midway through a caulking job is to figure
            out what kind of solvent you should have on hand for cleanup...
            before you get the stuff all over the place. ;*)



            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
            >
            > Sid,
            >
            > 3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifeseal are excellent compounds that are used
            for
            > bedding hardware; they are flexible and non-permanent. 3M 4200 is a
            > polysulfide. Lifeseal is a hybrid combining properties of
            polysulfide
            > and silicone. 4200 should be used judiciously since polysulfides
            can
            > attack some plastics.
            >
            > I've also started using 3M 4000 for bedding tasks in situations
            where
            > the sealant is exposed to sunlight, like chainplates. It's UV-
            resistant,
            > or so they claim.
            >
            > The one property all adhesive/sealants have in common is that they
            are
            > incredibly messy and hard to control. Don't wear your Guccis while
            > handling them.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Carter Brey
            > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
            > City Island, NY
            >
            > sid wax wrote:
            > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the companionway, it probably
            is
            > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to fix. The 3 inch
            long
            > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so the joint is
            likely
            > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk, pull out the
            > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both sides. One
            was
            > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really scary until I
            > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest repair on the
            boat.
            > >
            > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in the deck that
            need
            > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the balsa core, so
            a
            > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
            > >
            > > In any event, I have been advised against using 5200 for
            caulking.
            > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and it is extremely
            > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a favor to a
            future
            > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a recommendation for an
            > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
            > >
            >


          • Peter Tollini
            Sid - Don t be afraid of the bungs. Plenty of us have done the job and can advise you. If you can run a drill, screwdriver, mallet and sander, you ll have no
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Sid -
              Don't be afraid of the bungs.  Plenty of us have done the job and can advise you. If you can run a drill, screwdriver, mallet and sander, you'll have no trouble.  Plus you can sand and refinish the handrails in luxury this winter while they are off the boat. 
              Leaky handrails are a prime source of wet deck core in Sabres.  Now that's something to be afraid of.
              Pete

               
              On 12/4/06, sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:

              Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the
              former, I wouldn't think that would leak into the cabin. If the
              latter, that is a a really likely culprit.

              About the bungs: My surveyor suggested that I rebed my hand-rails,
              but I'm putting that job off for as long as possible, cause the
              thought of replacing all those bungs is scary. But it is not a job
              that I can let go for too long. I don't think that just running a
              bead along the edge will buy me much time.

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burns" <bjburns@...>


              wrote:
              >
              > I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're
              > accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most
              stress.
              > Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits;
              then the
              > stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd
              do
              > everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing
              bungs from
              > the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is
              worn down
              > and replacing the bungs could be a pia.
              >
              >
              >
              > Bob
              >
              > S28 #305
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of creeksailer
              > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
              > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak
              >
              >
              >
              > Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water
              drips down
              > from a couple
              > of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it
              could easily
              > be coming from
              > one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or
              (ack!) it
              > could come
              > from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else.
              The last
              > fix I tried was
              > sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out
              by
              > hand). After sealing
              > both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy
              rain the
              > pilot berth
              > cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.
              >
              > Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend,
              I'll try
              > again.
              >
              > Roger
              >
              > --- In Sabresailboat@ <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>

              > yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce <richard@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper.
              Sometimes
              > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the
              edge
              > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint.
              Might
              > > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
              > >
              > > r
              > >
              > > richard peirce
              > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
              > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
              > >
              > >
              > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
              > >
              > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a
              few
              > > > things, but I'm beginning to
              > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be
              redone.
              > > > From in side the cabin I
              > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is
              falling
              > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
              > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
              > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
              > > > successfully with this problem?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Roger
              > >
              >


            • Bob Burns
              Sid, The genoa track is bolted down and tightening them definitely helped on my boat. As far as the handrails go, the bungs are not really hard to do as long
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
              • 0 Attachment

                Sid,

                 

                The genoa track is bolted down and tightening them definitely helped on my boat. As far as the handrails go, the bungs are not really hard to do as long as the rails haven’t been too worn away. When I replaced a few of mine I had to epoxy the bung to the screw head, then sand it down, then fill with brown putty. Not elegant but it looks fine under a couple of coats of Cetol. I’ve never taken the rails off but one of our list members (Mr. Miller?) has done it and has a great write up on his web site.

                 

                Bob

                S28

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sid wax
                Sent:
                Monday, December 04, 2006 9:28 AM
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

                 

                Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the
                former, I wouldn't think that would leak into the cabin. If the
                latter, that is a a really likely culprit.

                About the bungs: My surveyor suggested that I rebed my hand-rails,
                but I'm putting that job off for as long as possible, cause the
                thought of replacing all those bungs is scary. But it is not a job
                that I can let go for too long. I don't think that just running a
                bead along the edge will buy me much time.

                --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Bob Burns" <bjburns@... >
                wrote:

                >
                > I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're
                > accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most
                stress.
                > Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits;
                then the
                > stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd
                do
                > everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing
                bungs from
                > the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is
                worn down
                > and replacing the bungs could be a pia.
                >
                >
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > S28 #305
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com]
                > On Behalf Of creeksailer
                > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
                > To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak
                >
                >
                >
                > Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water
                drips down
                > from a couple
                > of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it
                could easily
                > be coming from
                > one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or
                (ack!) it
                > could come
                > from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else.
                The last
                > fix I tried was
                > sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out
                by
                > hand). After sealing
                > both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy
                rain the
                > pilot berth
                > cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.
                >
                > Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend,
                I'll try
                > again.
                >
                > Roger
                >
                > --- In Sabresailboat@ <mailto:Sabresailbo at%40yahoogroups .com>
                > yahoogroups. com, Richard Peirce <richard@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper.
                Sometimes
                > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the
                edge
                > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint.
                Might
                > > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
                > >
                > > r
                > >
                > > richard peirce
                > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
                > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                > >
                > >
                > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                > >
                > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a
                few
                > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be
                redone.
                > > > From in side the cabin I
                > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is
                falling
                > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
                > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                > > > successfully with this problem?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks,
                > > > Roger
                > >
                >

              • Dave Lochner
                GE Silpruf is available through Fastenal. The stores around here don t stock it, so its a special order. About $10 for a cartridge. There is more info on the
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  GE Silpruf is available through Fastenal. The stores around here don't stock it, so its a special order. About $10 for a cartridge. There is more info on the Fastenal page and on the GE website.

                  Dave


                  On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:25 AM, Peter Tollini wrote:


                  For a bedding compound I've gotten two divergent suggestions.  3M tech folks now recommend 4000UV for bedding deck hardware - it did well in Practical sailor's testing as well.  Sabre now beds deck hardware with GE Silpruf, according to Glen.  Problem is, Silpruf is not a consumer product, so finding it takes a little resourcefulness.
                  Also, the yard techs say that pinpointing a deck leak in a boat with an overhead liner will drive you a little buggo.  And they are a major Sabre service facility.
                  Pete

                   
                  On 12/4/06, Bob Burns <bjburns@comcast.net> wrote:

                  I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most stress. Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits; then the stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd do everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing bungs from the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is worn down and replacing the bungs could be a pia.

                   

                  Bob

                  S28 #305

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of creeksailer
                  Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com

                  Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

                   

                  Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water drips down from a couple
                  of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it could easily be coming from
                  one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or (ack!) it could come
                  from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else. The last fix I tried was
                  sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out by hand). After sealing
                  both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy rain the pilot berth
                  cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.

                  Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend, I'll try again.

                  Roger

                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce <richard@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper. Sometimes
                  > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the edge
                  > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint. Might
                  > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
                  >
                  > r
                  >
                  > richard peirce
                  > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
                  > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                  >
                  >
                  > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                  >
                  > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a few
                  > > things, but I'm beginning to
                  > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be redone.
                  > > From in side the cabin I
                  > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is falling
                  > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                  > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
                  > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                  > > successfully with this problem?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Roger
                  >








                • Bruce Heyman
                  Bob, I think it was Tom and Rose King that took the rails off and rebuilt the deck-hull joint. I know Tom said it was a lot of work and fairly difficult to
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Bob,

                    I think it was Tom and Rose King that took the rails off and rebuilt the deck-hull joint.  I know Tom said it was a lot of work and fairly difficult to get the rails back on and lined up.  When they were done it looked fantastic, was dry and good for another 20+ years.

                    Bruce

                     


                    From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Burns
                    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:12 AM
                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

                     

                    Sid,

                     

                    The genoa track is bolted down and tightening them definitely helped on my boat. As far as the handrails go, the bungs are not really hard to do as long as the rails haven’t been too worn away. When I replaced a few of mine I had to epoxy the bung to the screw head, then sand it down, then fill with brown putty. Not elegant but it looks fine under a couple of coats of Cetol. I’ve never taken the rails off but one of our list members (Mr. Miller?) has done it and has a great write up on his web site.

                     

                    Bob

                    S28

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sabresailbo at@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sid wax
                    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:28 AM
                    To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

                     

                    Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the
                    former, I wouldn't think that would leak into the cabin. If the
                    latter, that is a a really likely culprit.

                    About the bungs: My surveyor suggested that I rebed my hand-rails,
                    but I'm putting that job off for as long as possible, cause the
                    thought of replacing all those bungs is scary. But it is not a job
                    that I can let go for too long. I don't think that just running a
                    bead along the edge will buy me much time.

                    --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Bob Burns" <bjburns@... >
                    wrote:

                    >
                    > I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're
                    > accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most
                    stress.
                    > Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits;
                    then the
                    > stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd
                    do
                    > everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing
                    bungs from
                    > the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is
                    worn down
                    > and replacing the bungs could be a pia.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > S28 #305
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                    [mailto:Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com]
                    > On Behalf Of creeksailer
                    > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
                    > To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water
                    drips down
                    > from a couple
                    > of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it
                    could easily
                    > be coming from
                    > one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or
                    (ack!) it
                    > could come
                    > from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else.
                    The last
                    > fix I tried was
                    > sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out
                    by
                    > hand). After sealing
                    > both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy
                    rain the
                    > pilot berth
                    > cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.
                    >
                    > Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend,
                    I'll try
                    > again.
                    >
                    > Roger
                    >
                    > --- In Sabresailboat@ <mailto:Sabresailbo at%40yahoogroups .com>
                    > yahoogroups. com, Richard Peirce <richard@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper.
                    Sometimes
                    > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the
                    edge
                    > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint.
                    Might
                    > > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
                    > >
                    > > r
                    > >
                    > > richard peirce
                    > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
                    > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a
                    few
                    > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                    > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be
                    redone.
                    > > > From in side the cabin I
                    > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is
                    falling
                    > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                    > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
                    > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                    > > > successfully with this problem?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > > Roger
                    > >
                    >

                  • Bruce Heyman
                    Sid, Both genoa tracks are through bolted and it is an easy two person job to tighten them up. Not a hard job, don t forget to make sure that all of the screw
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Sid,

                       

                      Both genoa tracks are through bolted and it is an easy two person job to tighten them up.  Not a hard job, don’t forget to make sure that all of the screw slots line up in true Sabre style!

                       

                      If the survey is recommending that you re-bed the hand rails then I would not put it off.  Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) the hand rails are screwed into the deck which is balsa cored.  If the bedding has failed then your core is likely wet.  If left that way it will rot and cause you more work than you have right now.  Bungs are not that difficult to work with, especially if you were planning on refinishing the hand rails anyway.

                       

                      Bruce


                      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sid wax
                      Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 6:28 AM
                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak

                       

                      Is the genoa track held on by wood-screws or through-bolts? If the
                      former, I wouldn't think that would leak into the cabin. If the
                      latter, that is a a really likely culprit.

                      About the bungs: My surveyor suggested that I rebed my hand-rails,
                      but I'm putting that job off for as long as possible, cause the
                      thought of replacing all those bungs is scary. But it is not a job
                      that I can let go for too long. I don't think that just running a
                      bead along the edge will buy me much time.

                      --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Bob Burns" <bjburns@... >
                      wrote:

                      >
                      > I suggest tightening the bolts along the genoa track first. They're
                      > accessible and the point where the deck to hull joint gets the most
                      stress.
                      > Then I'd make sure that the ports/ windows weren't the culprits;
                      then the
                      > stanchion bases probably need to be re-bedded. In other words, I'd
                      do
                      > everything I could think of before I got to the point of removing
                      bungs from
                      > the toerail to get at those bolts. You might find that the rail is
                      worn down
                      > and replacing the bungs could be a pia.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > S28 #305
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                      [mailto:Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com]
                      > On Behalf Of creeksailer
                      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:53 AM
                      > To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Sabre 28 deck leak
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Richard and others asked about the location of the leak. Water
                      drips down
                      > from a couple
                      > of different spots along the edge of the headliner/deck, so it
                      could easily
                      > be coming from
                      > one source and wandering along the headliner before it appears, or
                      (ack!) it
                      > could come
                      > from a general decline of the deck/hull seal, or something else.
                      The last
                      > fix I tried was
                      > sealing the scupper pipes (one was so loose I could just pop it out
                      by
                      > hand). After sealing
                      > both, I thought I'd found the source. And then after the next heavy
                      rain the
                      > pilot berth
                      > cushions were wet from water running down from the port side.
                      >
                      > Thanks for the good suggestions. If it's not too cold this weekend,
                      I'll try
                      > again.
                      >
                      > Roger
                      >
                      > --- In Sabresailboat@ <mailto:Sabresailbo at%40yahoogroups .com>
                      > yahoogroups. com, Richard Peirce <richard@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak scupper.
                      Sometimes
                      > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and run along the
                      edge
                      > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the hull/deck joint.
                      Might
                      > > want to check that before ripping out the toe rails!
                      > >
                      > > r
                      > >
                      > > richard peirce
                      > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384 | http://
                      > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a
                      few
                      > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                      > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be
                      redone.
                      > > > From in side the cabin I
                      > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is
                      falling
                      > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                      > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer
                      > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                      > > > successfully with this problem?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > > Roger
                      > >
                      >

                    • Bruce Heyman
                      Roger, Pete is exactly right. The headliner will really make it difficult to find where the leak is coming from? Hand rails, dodger fittings, hatch, turning
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 4, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Roger,

                         

                        Pete is exactly right.  The headliner will really make it difficult to find where the leak is coming from?  Hand rails, dodger fittings, hatch, turning blocks…..

                         

                        The manual has a pretty good diagram of how Sabre put the deck-hull joint together.  On the new boats there is a well that holds more bedding material at the joint.  It think they switched over sometime in the early 80’s.  That said you probably still have enough bedding at the joint. I did find it common to find areas where some of the beading material had squeezed out of the joint either under the rub rail or on the inside.

                         

                        Once we had re-bed all the hand rails, deck hardware and stanchions we found that the boat would remain totally dry while sitting in the slip, regardless of how hard it rained.  However if we were caught with too much canvas out on a blustery day and the rail was berried in the sea (not fast but sure is exciting) I would find water was leaking at the deck hull-joint. 

                         

                        We ended up having to replace most of the bungs because most of the time the screw heads would spin when you tried to tighten the nut from down below.  By the way you will have to dislocated your fingers so that you can get a wrench on the nuts!

                         

                        Bruce

                         


                        From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Tollini
                        Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:35 PM
                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Sabre 28 deck leak

                         

                        Roger –

                        The odds of the hull/deck joint being the source are pretty low.  Since Sabres use a fiberglass overhead liner, leaks tend to show up around the edges in a misleading way.  For example, I had bizarre leaks in the storage lockers in the main saloon. The source? The hatch frame over the saloon needed rebedding.  Water would drip onto the liner, the roll off in a number of directions.  So look overhead and try to visualize an uphill path from where the water appears to see if it leads to a suspect fitting.

                        It might also be a good idea, if you haven’t done it, to retighten the hull/deck nuts.  It will be an exercise in contortion and frustration, but should pay off.

                        Pete

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sabresailbo at@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of creeksailer
                        Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 1:44 PM
                        To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Sabre 28 deck leak

                         

                        I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck leak. I've fixed a few things, but I'm beginning to
                        think that the seal between the deck and hull needs to be redone. From in side the cabin I
                        can see areas where what looks like old sealing material is falling out. I wonder if I can fix
                        this by pulling out the teak toe rail and squirting 5200 sealer behind it. Has anyone dealt
                        successfully with this problem?

                        Thanks,
                        Roger

                      • jack horner
                        I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on Sandpiper S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on Sandpiper
                          S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                          it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the next
                          day washed it off, to my surprise It was still very
                          much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                          night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                          depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered them
                          with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                          washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                          rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all the
                          cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                          CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                          I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but for
                          me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck is
                          next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                          Sunny Florida

                          --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:

                          > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                          > companionway, it probably is
                          > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to fix.
                          > The 3 inch long
                          > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so the
                          > joint is likely
                          > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                          > pull out the
                          > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                          > sides. One was
                          > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                          > scary until I
                          > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                          > repair on the boat.
                          >
                          > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in the
                          > deck that need
                          > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                          > balsa core, so a
                          > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                          >
                          > In any event, I have been advised against using 5200
                          > for caulking.
                          > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and it
                          > is extremely
                          > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                          > favor to a future
                          > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                          > recommendation for an
                          > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                          >
                          > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce
                          > <richard@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                          > scupper.
                          > Sometimes
                          > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and
                          > run along the
                          > edge
                          > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                          > hull/deck joint.
                          > Might
                          > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                          > rails!
                          > >
                          > > r
                          > >
                          > > richard peirce
                          > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                          > |
                          > http://
                          > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                          > leak. I've fixed a
                          > few
                          > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                          > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                          > needs to be
                          > redone.
                          > > > From in side the cabin I
                          > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing
                          > material is
                          > falling
                          > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                          > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                          > squirting 5200 sealer
                          > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                          > > > successfully with this problem?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > Roger
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >




                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
                        • Carter Brey
                          Jack, Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Jack,

                            Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban shopping mall.

                            The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her nonskid here and there is covered with little brown flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.

                            Carter
                            S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                            City Island, NY

                            -----Original Message-----

                            From: jack horner <captbluwater@...>
                            Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid decks
                            Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                            Size: 3K
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com

                            I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on Sandpiper
                            S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                            it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the next
                            day washed it off, to my surprise It was still very
                            much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                            night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                            depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered them
                            with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                            washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                            rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all the
                            cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                            CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                            I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but for
                            me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck is
                            next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                            Sunny Florida

                            --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:

                            > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                            > companionway, it probably is
                            > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to fix.
                            > The 3 inch long
                            > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so the
                            > joint is likely
                            > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                            > pull out the
                            > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                            > sides. One was
                            > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                            > scary until I
                            > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                            > repair on the boat.
                            >
                            > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in the
                            > deck that need
                            > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                            > balsa core, so a
                            > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                            >
                            > In any event, I have been advised against using 5200
                            > for caulking.
                            > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and it
                            > is extremely
                            > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                            > favor to a future
                            > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                            > recommendation for an
                            > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                            >
                            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce
                            > <richard@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                            > scupper.
                            > Sometimes
                            > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and
                            > run along the
                            > edge
                            > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                            > hull/deck joint.
                            > Might
                            > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                            > rails!
                            > >
                            > > r
                            > >
                            > > richard peirce
                            > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                            > |
                            > http://
                            > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                            > leak. I've fixed a
                            > few
                            > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                            > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                            > needs to be
                            > redone.
                            > > > From in side the cabin I
                            > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing
                            > material is
                            > falling
                            > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                            > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                            > squirting 5200 sealer
                            > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                            > > > successfully with this problem?
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks,
                            > > > Roger
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >




                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.



                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • gmuller22
                            ... it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban shopping mall. Being a
                            Message 13 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment


                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Carter Brey" <cbrey@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Jack,
                              >
                              > Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban shopping mall.

                              Being a New Yorker you have actually already experienced the magic of Citrus Stripper. It was what was and is being used by the city to remove the graffitti from subways cars, walls and such. Of course, these "artists", finding themselves frustrated by citrus fruit extract, have returned to simply etching surfaces with their expressions of ennui. The battle against nihilists never ends.


                              >
                              > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her nonskid here and there is covered with little brown flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.

                              Sadly, despair will continue to be your companion when it comes to removing Cetol, for nothing, other than brutal scraping of the surface, can apparently remove the offending fossilized flecks of brown crap. I understand that a Nobel prize awaits the first person to discover a means of removing Cetol and yet nothing has been forthcoming. Perhaps the Baker-Hamilton group can take this up next between their afternoon naps.

                              Gerard

                            • Carter Brey
                              ... Actually, Gerard, I ve found that most of these etchings, far from being expressions of ennui, seem to be enthusiastic exhortations to the MTA rider/reader
                              Message 14 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                gmuller22 wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Being a New Yorker you have actually already experienced the magic of
                                > Citrus Stripper. It was what was and is being used by the city to
                                > remove the graffitti from subways cars, walls and such. Of course,
                                > these "artists", finding themselves frustrated by citrus fruit
                                > extract, have returned to simply etching surfaces with their
                                > expressions of ennui. The battle against nihilists never ends.
                                >
                                >
                                Actually, Gerard, I've found that most of these etchings, far from being
                                expressions of ennui, seem to be enthusiastic exhortations to the MTA
                                rider/reader to engage in anatomically questionable acts. It's nice to
                                see kids excited about something these days.

                                Carter
                              • Peter Tollini
                                Carter - The stuff is called Citristrip, Rebecca Wittman (*Brightwork and Brightwork Companion, *BTW you need a copy of one or both. hardbound Brightwork for
                                Message 15 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Carter -
                                  The stuff is called Citristrip, Rebecca Wittman (Brightwork and Brightwork Companion, BTW you need a copy of one or both. hardbound Brightwork for the coffee table and softbound Companion for the boat) raves about the stuff.  I intend to try it on the remaining brown flecks of Cetol next spring.   I have used acetone and a single edge razor blade with successful but appallingly slow results in the past.
                                  Pete
                                   
                                  On 12/6/06, Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:

                                  Jack,

                                  Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban shopping mall.

                                  The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her nonskid here and there is covered with little brown flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.

                                  Carter
                                  S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                                  City Island, NY



                                  -----Original Message-----

                                  From: jack horner < captbluwater@...>
                                  Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid decks
                                  Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                                  Size: 3K
                                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com

                                  I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on Sandpiper
                                  S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                                  it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the next
                                  day washed it off, to my surprise It was still very
                                  much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                                  night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                                  depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered them
                                  with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                                  washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                                  rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all the
                                  cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                                  CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                                  I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but for
                                  me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck is
                                  next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                                  Sunny Florida

                                  --- sid wax <sid_w@... > wrote:

                                  > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                                  > companionway, it probably is
                                  > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to fix.
                                  > The 3 inch long
                                  > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so the
                                  > joint is likely
                                  > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                                  > pull out the
                                  > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                                  > sides. One was
                                  > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                                  > scary until I
                                  > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                                  > repair on the boat.
                                  >
                                  > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in the
                                  > deck that need
                                  > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                                  > balsa core, so a
                                  > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                                  >
                                  > In any event, I have been advised against using 5200
                                  > for caulking.
                                  > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and it
                                  > is extremely
                                  > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                                  > favor to a future
                                  > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                                  > recommendation for an
                                  > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                                  >
                                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Peirce
                                  > <richard@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                                  > scupper.
                                  > Sometimes
                                  > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe and
                                  > run along the
                                  > edge
                                  > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                                  > hull/deck joint.
                                  > Might
                                  > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                                  > rails!
                                  > >
                                  > > r
                                  > >
                                  > > richard peirce
                                  > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                                  > |
                                  > http://
                                  > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                                  > leak. I've fixed a
                                  > few
                                  > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                                  > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                                  > needs to be
                                  > redone.
                                  > > > From in side the cabin I
                                  > > > can see areas where what looks like old sealing
                                  > material is
                                  > falling
                                  > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                                  > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                                  > squirting 5200 sealer
                                  > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                                  > > > successfully with this problem?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks,
                                  > > > Roger
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  __________________________________________________________
                                  Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links


                                • Bruce Heyman
                                  I agree with Gerard! Once the cetal has been allowed to focalize the only way to remove it is mechanically. Before it has focalize I ve found Acetone works
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    I agree with Gerard!  Once the cetal has been allowed to focalize the only way to remove it is mechanically.  Before it has focalize I’ve found Acetone works well but as always do not allow it to pool on the gelcoat, it will soften it.

                                    I have a nice collection of dental picks which when combined with a lot of patience will allow you to remove those unwanted splatters in the non-skid.

                                    Bruce

                                     

                                     


                                    From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of gmuller22
                                    Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:36 AM
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid decks

                                     


                                    --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com , "Carter Brey" <cbrey@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Jack,
                                    >
                                    > Thank you for this information- - what is Citrus Stripper? You bought
                                    it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban shopping mall.

                                    Being a New Yorker you have actually already experienced the magic of Citrus Stripper. It was what was and is being used by the city to remove the graffitti from subways cars, walls and such. Of course, these "artists", finding themselves frustrated by citrus fruit extract, have returned to simply etching surfaces with their expressions of ennui. The battle against nihilists never ends.


                                    >
                                    > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at the thought of wielding
                                    a brush full of Cetol. Her nonskid here and there is covered with little brown flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.

                                    Sadly, despair will continue to be your companion when it comes to removing Cetol, for nothing, other than brutal scraping of the surface, can apparently remove the offending fossilized flecks of brown crap. I understand that a Nobel prize awaits the first person to discover a means of removing Cetol and yet nothing has been forthcoming. Perhaps the Baker-Hamilton group can take this up next between their afternoon naps.

                                    Gerard

                                  • jack horner
                                    Carter, citris stripper is orange gel very gentle and smells ORANGE. Yeah The Depot paint isle. Paint the gel on with a paint brush. Don t be cheap with it.
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Carter, citris stripper is orange gel very gentle and
                                      smells ORANGE. Yeah The Depot paint isle. Paint the
                                      gel on with a paint brush. Don't be cheap with it.
                                      Cover with SARAN wrap maybe a rock if its windy. Let
                                      it on overnight and attach with a SS wire brush and a
                                      hose. AND B I N G O !!! GONE !!!!! TO neat. For
                                      sloppy me this is a break thru jack
                                      --- Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:

                                      > Jack,
                                      >
                                      > Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus
                                      > Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in
                                      > Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains
                                      > inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban
                                      > shopping mall.
                                      >
                                      > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at
                                      > the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her
                                      > nonskid here and there is covered with little brown
                                      > flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired
                                      > of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.
                                      >
                                      > Carter
                                      > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                                      > City Island, NY
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      >
                                      > From: jack horner <captbluwater@...>
                                      > Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid
                                      > decks
                                      > Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                                      > Size: 3K
                                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on
                                      > Sandpiper
                                      > S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                                      > it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the
                                      > next
                                      > day washed it off, to my surprise It was still
                                      > very
                                      > much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                                      > night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                                      > depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered
                                      > them
                                      > with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                                      > washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                                      > rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all
                                      > the
                                      > cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                                      > CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                                      > I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but
                                      > for
                                      > me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck
                                      > is
                                      > next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                                      > Sunny Florida
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                                      > > companionway, it probably is
                                      > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to
                                      > fix.
                                      > > The 3 inch long
                                      > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so
                                      > the
                                      > > joint is likely
                                      > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                                      > > pull out the
                                      > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                                      > > sides. One was
                                      > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                                      > > scary until I
                                      > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                                      > > repair on the boat.
                                      > >
                                      > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in
                                      > the
                                      > > deck that need
                                      > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                                      > > balsa core, so a
                                      > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                                      > >
                                      > > In any event, I have been advised against using
                                      > 5200
                                      > > for caulking.
                                      > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and
                                      > it
                                      > > is extremely
                                      > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                                      > > favor to a future
                                      > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                                      > > recommendation for an
                                      > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard
                                      > Peirce
                                      > > <richard@...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                                      > > scupper.
                                      > > Sometimes
                                      > > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe
                                      > and
                                      > > run along the
                                      > > edge
                                      > > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                                      > > hull/deck joint.
                                      > > Might
                                      > > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                                      > > rails!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > r
                                      > > >
                                      > > > richard peirce
                                      > > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                                      >
                                      > > |
                                      > > http://
                                      > > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                                      > > leak. I've fixed a
                                      > > few
                                      > > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                                      > > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                                      > > needs to be
                                      > > redone.
                                      > > > > From in side the cabin I
                                      > > > > can see areas where what looks like old
                                      > sealing
                                      > > material is
                                      > > falling
                                      > > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                                      > > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                                      > > squirting 5200 sealer
                                      > > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                                      > > > > successfully with this problem?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thanks,
                                      > > > > Roger
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                                      > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >




                                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                                    • jack horner
                                      I only know it works for Epathaines varnish. I think maybe West should sell out to big BOX mart or the Depot . That way the walking dead w/ aprons could be
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I only know it works for Epathaines varnish. I think
                                        maybe West should sell out to big BOX mart or the
                                        Depot . That way the walking dead w/ aprons could be
                                        all in one place !!!!! JACK
                                        --- gmuller22 <gmuller22@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Carter Brey"
                                        > <cbrey@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Jack,
                                        > >
                                        > > Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus
                                        > Stripper? You bought
                                        > it at Home Depot? Even here in Manhattan we have one
                                        > of those now, as
                                        > the chains inexorably turn our island into a
                                        > gigantic suburban shopping
                                        > mall.
                                        >
                                        > Being a New Yorker you have actually already
                                        > experienced the magic of
                                        > Citrus Stripper. It was what was and is being used
                                        > by the city to remove
                                        > the graffitti from subways cars, walls and such. Of
                                        > course, these
                                        > "artists", finding themselves frustrated by citrus
                                        > fruit extract, have
                                        > returned to simply etching surfaces with their
                                        > expressions of ennui. The
                                        > battle against nihilists never ends.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at
                                        > the thought of
                                        > wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her nonskid here and
                                        > there is covered
                                        > with little brown flecks of fossilized brown crap
                                        > and I've despaired of
                                        > ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.
                                        >
                                        > Sadly, despair will continue to be your companion
                                        > when it comes to
                                        > removing Cetol, for nothing, other than brutal
                                        > scraping of the surface,
                                        > can apparently remove the offending fossilized
                                        > flecks of brown crap. I
                                        > understand that a Nobel prize awaits the first
                                        > person to discover a
                                        > means of removing Cetol and yet nothing has been
                                        > forthcoming. Perhaps
                                        > the Baker-Hamilton group can take this up next
                                        > between their afternoon
                                        > naps.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Gerard
                                        >
                                        >




                                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                                        Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
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                                      • john kalinowski
                                        Jack Any tests with long term dried varnish yet? You may be on to something akin to the fountain of youth..for boats! jack horner
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Jack
                                           
                                            Any tests with long term dried varnish yet?
                                           
                                            You may be on to something akin to the fountain of youth..for boats!

                                          jack horner <captbluwater@...> wrote:
                                          Carter, citris stripper is orange gel very gentle and
                                          smells ORANGE. Yeah The Depot paint isle. Paint the
                                          gel on with a paint brush. Don't be cheap with it.
                                          Cover with SARAN wrap maybe a rock if its windy. Let
                                          it on overnight and attach with a SS wire brush and a
                                          hose. AND B I N G O !!! GONE !!!!! TO neat. For
                                          sloppy me this is a break thru jack
                                          --- Carter Brey <cbrey@attglobal. net> wrote:

                                          > Jack,
                                          >
                                          > Thank you for this information- - what is Citrus
                                          > Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in
                                          > Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains
                                          > inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban
                                          > shopping mall.
                                          >
                                          > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at
                                          > the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her
                                          > nonskid here and there is covered with little brown
                                          > flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired
                                          > of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.
                                          >
                                          > Carter
                                          > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                                          > City Island, NY
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          >
                                          > From: jack horner <captbluwater@ yahoo.com>
                                          > Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid
                                          > decks
                                          > Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                                          > Size: 3K
                                          > To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                                          >
                                          > I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on
                                          > Sandpiper
                                          > S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                                          > it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the
                                          > next
                                          > day washed it off, to my surprise It was still
                                          > very
                                          > much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                                          > night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                                          > depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered
                                          > them
                                          > with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                                          > washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                                          > rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all
                                          > the
                                          > cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                                          > CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                                          > I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but
                                          > for
                                          > me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck
                                          > is
                                          > next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                                          > Sunny Florida
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- sid wax <sid_w@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                                          > > companionway, it probably is
                                          > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to
                                          > fix.
                                          > > The 3 inch long
                                          > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so
                                          > the
                                          > > joint is likely
                                          > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                                          > > pull out the
                                          > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                                          > > sides. One was
                                          > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                                          > > scary until I
                                          > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                                          > > repair on the boat.
                                          > >
                                          > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in
                                          > the
                                          > > deck that need
                                          > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                                          > > balsa core, so a
                                          > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                                          > >
                                          > > In any event, I have been advised against using
                                          > 5200
                                          > > for caulking.
                                          > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and
                                          > it
                                          > > is extremely
                                          > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                                          > > favor to a future
                                          > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                                          > > recommendation for an
                                          > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Richard
                                          > Peirce
                                          > > <richard@... >
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                                          > > scupper.
                                          > > Sometimes
                                          > > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe
                                          > and
                                          > > run along the
                                          > > edge
                                          > > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                                          > > hull/deck joint.
                                          > > Might
                                          > > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                                          > > rails!
                                          > > >
                                          > > > r
                                          > > >
                                          > > > richard peirce
                                          > > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                                          >
                                          > > |
                                          > > http://
                                          > > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                                          > > leak. I've fixed a
                                          > > few
                                          > > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                                          > > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                                          > > needs to be
                                          > > redone.
                                          > > > > From in side the cabin I
                                          > > > > can see areas where what looks like old
                                          > sealing
                                          > > material is
                                          > > falling
                                          > > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                                          > > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                                          > > squirting 5200 sealer
                                          > > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                                          > > > > successfully with this problem?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks,
                                          > > > > Roger
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                          > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                                          > www.Answers. yahoo.com. Try it now.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

                                          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                          Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                          http://new.mail. yahoo.com


                                          Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                                        • jack horner
                                          John, Some of the varnish was from last year. GONE now. I just came from the boat and applied orange stripper to the port side and covered it with that dam
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            John, Some of the varnish was from last year. GONE
                                            now. I just came from the boat and applied orange
                                            stripper to the port side and covered it with that dam
                                            Suran wrap. Very hard to deal with in any wind at all.
                                            Than used life jackets for weights so the wind would
                                            not blow it off. The Sabre looks a sight. But its for
                                            a good cause. And I'll have it cleaned up by the
                                            weekend so all the weekend boaters don't see it like
                                            that.
                                            Change of subject: My Mac is not windows based. The
                                            newer ones can do that but mine is 3 years old. I
                                            think if I click on the hard drive I can erase
                                            anything that says EPSON and I'll be better. ? Right
                                            ???!! Thanks Jack
                                            --- john kalinowski <sabre32sailor@...> wrote:

                                            > Jack
                                            >
                                            > Any tests with long term dried varnish yet?
                                            >
                                            > You may be on to something akin to the fountain
                                            > of youth..for boats!
                                            >
                                            > jack horner <captbluwater@...> wrote:
                                            > Carter, citris stripper is orange gel very
                                            > gentle and
                                            > smells ORANGE. Yeah The Depot paint isle. Paint the
                                            > gel on with a paint brush. Don't be cheap with it.
                                            > Cover with SARAN wrap maybe a rock if its windy. Let
                                            > it on overnight and attach with a SS wire brush and
                                            > a
                                            > hose. AND B I N G O !!! GONE !!!!! TO neat. For
                                            > sloppy me this is a break thru jack
                                            > --- Carter Brey <cbrey@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Jack,
                                            > >
                                            > > Thank you for this information-- what is Citrus
                                            > > Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here
                                            > in
                                            > > Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains
                                            > > inexorably turn our island into a gigantic
                                            > suburban
                                            > > shopping mall.
                                            > >
                                            > > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at
                                            > > the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her
                                            > > nonskid here and there is covered with little
                                            > brown
                                            > > flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired
                                            > > of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.
                                            > >
                                            > > Carter
                                            > > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                                            > > City Island, NY
                                            > >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > >
                                            > > From: jack horner <captbluwater@...>
                                            > > Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid
                                            > > decks
                                            > > Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                                            > > Size: 3K
                                            > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >
                                            > > I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on
                                            > > Sandpiper
                                            > > S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                                            > > it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the
                                            > > next
                                            > > day washed it off, to my surprise It was still
                                            > > very
                                            > > much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                                            > > night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                                            > > depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered
                                            > > them
                                            > > with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                                            > > washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                                            > > rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all
                                            > > the
                                            > > cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                                            > > CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                                            > > I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but
                                            > > for
                                            > > me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck
                                            > > is
                                            > > next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                                            > > Sunny Florida
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- sid wax <sid_w@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                                            > > > companionway, it probably is
                                            > > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to
                                            > > fix.
                                            > > > The 3 inch long
                                            > > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so
                                            > > the
                                            > > > joint is likely
                                            > > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the
                                            > caulk,
                                            > > > pull out the
                                            > > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on
                                            > both
                                            > > > sides. One was
                                            > > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink.
                                            > Really
                                            > > > scary until I
                                            > > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                                            > > > repair on the boat.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in
                                            > > the
                                            > > > deck that need
                                            > > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet
                                            > the
                                            > > > balsa core, so a
                                            > > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > In any event, I have been advised against using
                                            > > 5200
                                            > > > for caulking.
                                            > > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and
                                            > > it
                                            > > > is extremely
                                            > > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                                            > > > favor to a future
                                            > > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                                            > > > recommendation for an
                                            > > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good
                                            > luck.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard
                                            > > Peirce
                                            > > > <richard@...>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the
                                            > deak
                                            > > > scupper.
                                            > > > Sometimes
                                            > > > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe
                                            > > and
                                            > > > run along the
                                            > > > edge
                                            > > > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                                            > > > hull/deck joint.
                                            > > > Might
                                            > > > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                                            > > > rails!
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > r
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > richard peirce
                                            > > > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                                            > >
                                            > > > |
                                            > > > http://
                                            > > > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                                            > > > leak. I've fixed a
                                            > > > few
                                            > > > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                                            > > > > > think that the seal between the deck and
                                            > hull
                                            > > > needs to be
                                            > > > redone.
                                            > > > > > From in side the cabin I
                                            > > > > > can see areas where what looks like old
                                            > > sealing
                                            > > > material is
                                            > > > falling
                                            > > > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                                            > > > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                                            > > > squirting 5200 sealer
                                            > > > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                                            > > > > > successfully with this problem?
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Thanks,
                                            > > > > > Roger
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            __________________________________________________________
                                            > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                                            > > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            __________________________________________________________
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                                            > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail
                                            > beta.
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                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            === message truncated ===




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                                          • Phil Shepard
                                            Jack- Interlux makes a product -I think it is called Interstrip - which will remove varnish and paint without hurting the fiberglass. Put it on- let it set for
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Dec 6, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment

                                              Jack-

                                                 Interlux makes a product –I think it is called Interstrip – which will remove varnish and paint without hurting the fiberglass. Put it on- let it set for 10-15 min and then rub off with a stiff brush. It works.

                                               

                                                  Phil

                                               


                                              From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john kalinowski
                                              Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:55 PM
                                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid decks

                                               

                                              Jack

                                               

                                                Any tests with long term dried varnish yet?

                                               

                                                You may be on to something akin to the fountain of youth..for boats!

                                              jack horner <captbluwater@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                              Carter, citris stripper is orange gel very gentle and
                                              smells ORANGE . Yeah The Depot paint isle. Paint the
                                              gel on with a paint brush. Don't be cheap with it.
                                              Cover with SARAN wrap maybe a rock if its windy. Let
                                              it on overnight and attach with a SS wire brush and a
                                              hose. AND B I N G O !!! GONE !!!!! TO neat. For
                                              sloppy me this is a break thru jack
                                              --- Carter Brey <cbrey@attglobal. net> wrote:

                                              > Jack,
                                              >
                                              > Thank you for this information- - what is Citrus
                                              > Stripper? You bought it at Home Depot? Even here in
                                              > Manhattan we have one of those now, as the chains
                                              > inexorably turn our island into a gigantic suburban
                                              > shopping mall.
                                              >
                                              > The P.O. of Delphine evidently got very excited at
                                              > the thought of wielding a brush full of Cetol. Her
                                              > nonskid here and there is covered with little brown
                                              > flecks of fossilized brown crap and I've despaired
                                              > of ever cleaning it up. Maybe this will help.
                                              >
                                              > Carter
                                              > S28 MkII #532 "Delphine"
                                              > City Island , NY
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              >
                                              > From: jack horner <captbluwater@ yahoo.com>
                                              > Subj: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re:VARNISH off nonskid
                                              > decks
                                              > Date: Wed Dec 6, 2006 8:28 am
                                              > Size: 3K
                                              > To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                                              >
                                              > I just completed the 8th coat of varnish on
                                              > Sandpiper
                                              > S 28 and I was messy. Some varnish on the non skid
                                              > it was a mess. So I tried paint remover and the
                                              > next
                                              > day washed it off, to my surprise It was still
                                              > very
                                              > much there next AM. Would seem to have dried over
                                              > night in the Florida heat. So this time I put the
                                              > depot Citrus stripper on a the spots and covered
                                              > them
                                              > with SURAN wrap to slow it drying out. Next AM I
                                              > washed it off with a hose and with a SS wire brush
                                              > rubbed lightly. AND GONE, It works. Did the all
                                              > the
                                              > cockpit seats, next. And WOW what a difference.
                                              > CLEAN. No softing of the gel-coat either !!
                                              > I'm sure all you guys learned this years ago but
                                              > for
                                              > me, This is GREAT all pretty again. Main deck
                                              > is
                                              > next I made a mess of the decks there too. Jack in
                                              > Sunny Florida
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- sid wax <sid_w@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > If the leak is near the bulkhead by the
                                              > > companionway, it probably is
                                              > > the deck scuppers, and those are really easy to
                                              > fix.
                                              > > The 3 inch long
                                              > > fiberglass tubes are just caulked into place, so
                                              > the
                                              > > joint is likely
                                              > > to fail after a few years. Just remove the caulk,
                                              > > pull out the
                                              > > tubes, and rebed. On my boat, I had leaks on both
                                              > > sides. One was
                                              > > running down the bulkhead behind the sink. Really
                                              > > scary until I
                                              > > realized the scuppers needed rebedding. Easiest
                                              > > repair on the boat.
                                              > >
                                              > > But, of course, there are lots of other holes in
                                              > the
                                              > > deck that need
                                              > > occasional attention. Most of those would wet the
                                              > > balsa core, so a
                                              > > moisture meter might help to pinpoint the leak.
                                              > >
                                              > > In any event, I have been advised against using
                                              > 5200
                                              > > for caulking.
                                              > > It will eventually fail, like anything else, and
                                              > it
                                              > > is extremely
                                              > > difficult to remove. So you would not be doing a
                                              > > favor to a future
                                              > > owner. Unfortunately, I did not receive a
                                              > > recommendation for an
                                              > > alternative, just "anything but 5200". Good luck.
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Richard
                                              > Peirce
                                              > > <richard@... >
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Where is the leak? A notorious leak is the deak
                                              > > scupper.
                                              > > Sometimes
                                              > > > the water can leak out the small scupper pipe
                                              > and
                                              > > run along the
                                              > > edge
                                              > > > of the headliner and appear to be out of the
                                              > > hull/deck joint.
                                              > > Might
                                              > > > want to check that before ripping out the toe
                                              > > rails!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > r
                                              > > >
                                              > > > richard peirce
                                              > > > HACIENDA II | Sabre 34 Targa Hull #384
                                              >
                                              > > |
                                              > > http://
                                              > > > www.casita.ca | THSC Toronto
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > On Dec 3, 2006, at 1:44 PM, creeksailer wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > I have a 1977 Sabre 28 with an elusive deck
                                              > > leak. I've fixed a
                                              > > few
                                              > > > > things, but I'm beginning to
                                              > > > > think that the seal between the deck and hull
                                              > > needs to be
                                              > > redone.
                                              > > > > From in side the cabin I
                                              > > > > can see areas where what looks like old
                                              > sealing
                                              > > material is
                                              > > falling
                                              > > > > out. I wonder if I can fix
                                              > > > > this by pulling out the teak toe rail and
                                              > > squirting 5200 sealer
                                              > > > > behind it. Has anyone dealt
                                              > > > > successfully with this problem?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Thanks,
                                              > > > > Roger
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                              > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                                              > www.Answers. yahoo.com. Try it now.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

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                                              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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