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RE: [SabreSailboat] Origo stove

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  • Finley, Mike
    Brooks, Here is some tech advice I received ...what do you think? ...the 4D batteries are about $400 a piece and weigh about 130lbs ...enough to make me think
    Message 1 of 33 , Aug 1, 2006
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      Brooks,

       

      Here is some tech advice I received …what do you think?  …the 4D batteries are about $400 a piece and weigh about 130lbs …enough to make me think twice.

       

       

      Mike

      ______________________________________________________

       

      Let's work backwards from the heaviest load that your electrical system will have, and that will be the microwave. You will need an inverter rated at 1800-2000W to run a small domestic microwave, and that will take a heavy draw from the batteries. To support that draw, you will need a bigger battery bank - 400Ah or more. That means adding more batteries to your current setup. A basic system to get what you want would be:

       

      > 2 x 4D batteries or equivalent for a house bank

      > seperate smaller start battery

      > 1800W inverter or 2000W inverter/charger

      > change to the battery switch setup

      > installation of a battery monitor

       

      You might also want to think about upgrading the stock alternator on the engine for better charging performance.

       

      The first step is measuring to see where you might fit the extra batteries. Take a look at the battery sizes for our website for dimensions and capacity ratings.

       

       


      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brooks Wright
      Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:38 PM
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Origo stove

       

      Mike,

       

      We'll be using the inverter with 75 amp hours available from the house batteries but most anything we'd use the microwave for would be around 2 - 5 minutes...10 tops. It draws 8.5 amps. We also have the option of running the engine for that period if it's a problem. We don't really have anything else that would draw down the batteries much so don't think it will be a problem.

       

      Brooks Wright

      S34 #31

      "Finley, Mike" <mfinley@prtm. com> wrote:

      How are you guys powering the microwave when out of port?  A sine wave inverter I guess, but how big is your house bank/battery set up…. Or do you just use the microwave when on shore power?

      Thx

      Mike

      Divided Sky S36/100


      From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sabresailbo at@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM BROADHURST
      Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:57 AM
      To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Origo stove

      We did the same - Origo stove and stainless microwave under.

      I have seen what propane leaks do, having had a camper blow myself.

      Water boiling is quicker than 11 mins and anyway we carry electric kettle or a flask.

      Stove is great and safe as houses.  We never used the previous oven which was virtually new when we had the boat.  We still have it if anybody wishes to buy it and fetch it.  3 burner Princess stove and oven - propane c/w locker and solenoid

      Going cruising on Lake Erie tomorrow

      Graham S34 Fearless

      Brooks Wright <bwright847@yahoo. com> wrote:

      Barry,

      Haven't used the stove or microwave yet as I'm still working on the cabinet. Hope to have it done and installed this weekend . Will let you know how we like it but probably won't use it much until we go to Penobscot Bay Aug. 16. I do know that we really like the little one burner butane stove we have so might still use that for making coffee. I'm curious about the microwave as it claims to be a toaster oven as well as the regular microwave but using microwaves for both if I remember right.

      Brooks

      Barry Dwyer <bdwyer@xscion. com> wrote:

      Brooks:

      Thanks.  I re-read your initial email and now see where you went.  I will give that a look this weekend. 

      How do you like the Origo?  PS had a recent article about stoves and recommended the Origo if you could put up with 11 minutes to boil water.

      Barry


      From: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com [mailto: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Brooks Wright
      Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:28 AM
      To: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com
      Subject: RE: [ Sabre Sailboat] Automatic bilge pump in a S34 mkI

      Barry,

      I left the manual pump in place so I would have two options for pumping the bilge. On our boat the manual pump hose crosses under the engine and into the ice box cabinet under the waste basket at hull level. From there it cuts the inboard, forward corner of the icebox and crosses into the area under the stove where there is an access door near the cabin sole, and then through the sink cabinet before turning toward the bilge. The hose for the old stove went from the back of the stove right along the hull behind (outboard of) the ice box exiting the bulkhead into the sail locker below and just behind the alcohol tank. Two separate routes.

      BTW, I replaced the stove with a microwave oven and an Origo two burner nonpressurized alcohol stove, for which i built a cabinet that swings (gimbles) on the original hardware for the stove. The microwave sits on the bottom of the cabinet and the Origo sits on a shelf above it.

      Brooks

      Barry Dwyer <bdwyer@xscion. com> wrote:

      Brooks:

      I too found that route, but that is where the manual pump hose fits and I do not think two will make the trip under the bulkhead forward of the galley sink into the bilge.  Did you eliminate your manual pump?

      Barry


      From: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com [mailto: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com ] On Behalf Of Brooks Wright
      Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 7:26 PM
      To: Sabre sailboat@yahoogroup s.com
      Subject: Re: [ Sabre Sailboat] Automatic bilge pump in a S34 mkI

      Mark,

      I had been trying to find the elusive route for a bilge pump hose evere since I bought our boat (S34 Mk I). Finally this year I managed to do it. The secret is to get rid of the original pressurized alcohol stove. Where the old fuel line ran behind the ice box a 1" hose will fit. from there you go across and under the stove cabinet where the manual hose runs, through (under the dry storage bin beside the sink) to the cubby under the sink where the sink drain seacock is, cut a hole in the buklkhead (at the hull level) to cut across under the cabin sole just forward of the sink/settee bulkhead and down into the bilge. From there I ran it forward through the limber holes on the centerline to the pump just aft of the mast. I followed the wiring intructions that came with the pump but ran the wire that goes to the battery to a positive post beside the battery. I don't leave it on when not on the boat, however. The switch has an off/auto/manual toggle. The hose runs aft to the centerline where it is in a loop with a vent and then to the starboard side of the boat just below the deck and near the transom. I don't have a check valve in the line.

      Brooks

      mt_donahue <mtdonahue@gmail. com> wrote:

      Has anyone installed an automatic bilge pump in a mk I s34? I'd like
      to augment the manual pump, and figured I'd check here first for ideas.

      Mark

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    • Peter Tollini
      Most ammeters don t carry the full load. They use a shunt for that and register from a suprisingly low current. This makes them susceptible to loose or dirty
      Message 33 of 33 , Aug 2, 2006
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        Most ammeters don't carry the full load.  They use a shunt for that and register from a suprisingly low current.  This makes them susceptible to loose or dirty connections. That's what I would checkfirst.
        Pete

         
        On 8/1/06, David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

        Bob,


         
        My amp meter never shows that it is charging the battery. When starting it will drop to -30 or -40 amps but then returns to 0. I carry an inexpensive (less than $20) sears digital voltmeter. When I checked the voltage at the breaker panel it was about 13.6 volts, so I know the battery is getting charged.

         

        Dave

        Identity Crisis

        S30 #52

        Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario


        On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:36 PM, Bob Burns wrote:


         

        Today on the boat I again noticed that the amp meter seems to be randomly jumping around. The batteries are well charged but for some reason the amp meter will suddenly jump to 40 amps, stay there for a while and then jump back to what seems to be the right spot on the dial. The engine is a Volvo MD7A and this caught my attention a few weeks ago, then seemed to go away. Any ideas as to what can cause this? My guess is the regulator but I don't even know where it is!

         
         

        By the way, on a related electrical issue, my ST 4000 autopilot was giving me a 'no data' message and the compass heading was stuck at 158 degrees. My immediate fear was that the electromagnetic compass had joined the parrot in the Monty Python skit and had ceased to exist. My first solution of rapping the compass with a screwdriver handle got it to change heading but now it was suck on 330 degrees; not exactly progress. Next day I removed the control head and removed all the wires, sprayed each connection with some contact cleaner and reattached all of the wires. Fixed! I guess the moral of the story is to never underestimate the simplest solution.

         
         

        Any help with the jumpy alternator will be appreciated.

         
         

        Bob

        S28

        #305

         
         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailbo at@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Garvin
        Sent:
        Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:55 PM
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Origo stove

         
         

        I know someone mentioned the BlueSea 8080 within the
        past couple of days....2 winters ago, I installed a
        bunch of new electrical components including a BS 8080
        switch, a BS 9112 Automatic Charging Relay, a new
        distribution panel, and a Xantrex true charge 40A
        charger. BlueSea has a nice diagrama of what the
        whole setup looks like (see attached photo).

        My alternator charges the starting battery so I hooked
        the Xantrex charger to the house bank.

        I bought all my parts from Peter Kennedy. His prices
        are much less than places like west marine. Jack
        Rabbit Marine was pretty competitive, but Peter was so
        helpful, I felt better buying from him.

        No muss, no fuss. It works great.

        John

        --- Brooks Wright < bwright847@yahoo.com > wrote:

        > Thanks Jim for the info.
        > Sorry, but I already have an airplane. How do you
        > think I get out to my mooring?
        >
        > Brooks
        >
        > Jim Starkey < jas@netfrastructure.com > wrote:
        > Brooks Wright wrote:
        > > Jim and Mike,
        > >
        > > With the exception of the chocolate brownie in a
        > Swanson's TV dinner I
        > > agree completely regarding frozen dinners.
        > Probably won't be cooking
        > > those. A baked potatoe or heating soup, coffee,
        > etc. will not take a
        > > long time.
        > > To answer your question, Jim, I have two 12 volt
        > deep cycle house
        > > batts. in parrallel, but they are both fairly new
        > and same age. They
        > > are separate from the starting batt. with 3
        > switches a la Dick's
        > > setup. However, my electrical guy advised against
        > the combiner (and
        > > said they caused fires, when I asked why he didn't
        > like them)
        > There are two types of "combiners". The more
        > expensive ones are a set
        > of diodes (and large heat sinks) to isolate the
        > battery. This are dumb,
        > inefficient, and require special wiring to ensure
        > the batteries actually
        > get charged. The better ones have a relay that
        > bridges the batteries
        > when charging current is present (the lower batter
        > will always absorb
        > the charge). The best way to handle it is to get a
        > suitable relay
        > (about $45 from the evil West Empire) driven by an
        > oil pressure switch
        > (about nothing from
        Napa).
        >
        > You might as well leave the 12 volt batteries as
        > they are, but switch to
        > a pair a big 6 volt batteries in series when you
        > decide to replace them.
        > > .
        > > I'm supposed to be painting the house right now so
        > naturally took
        > > advantage of the question about the microwave to
        > take a break and pull
        > > out the electrical book. Just for a check on the
        > numbers I divided the
        > > Power required for AC on the Micro spec sheet 980
        > (.98kW) by 12.5 V
        > > and got 78.4 amps. I believe that means it would
        > draw 78 amps in an
        > > hour. So allowing that one, of course, wouldn't
        > want to approach the
        > > 50% total availabe amp hrs in the house bank (2 x
        > 75 amp hrs x .5) it
        > > seems like I could get away with 5 or so minutes.
        > The absolute worst thing that could happen is that
        > you'll either run the
        > engine during desert or go to bed without a bedtime
        > story. I don't know
        > about designer rums, but a nice single malt works
        > just fine in the dark,
        > particularly if you pour a little extra because you
        > can't see well.
        > >
        > > P.S. try the Marie Calendar dinners. They're not
        > too bad. (Well, if
        > > you're in a hurry).
        > >
        > If you're in a hurry, you've got the wrong kind of
        > transportation.
        > Wanna buy an airplane?
        >
        > --
        >
        > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
        > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
        > 978 526-1376
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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