Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SabreSailboat] Has anyone installed a Raymarine C-series chartplotter?

Expand Messages
  • john kalinowski
    you want to spend money, here you go: http://www.dxengineering.com/Products.asp?DeptID=21&SecID=1&ID=14 I think your idea would be fine. One could probably
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 31, 2006
      you want to spend money, here you go:
       
      I think your idea would be fine.
      One could probably check for continuity between the braid and the chassis and if they are linked, attach your boat ground onto the chassis thereby skipping the clamp. 
       
      As for lightening, If you take a hit, maybe it works afterwards, maybe it doesn't.
      Warranty never counts on lightening hits anyways..

      bbay34 <bbay34@...> wrote:
      I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.

      The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
      indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
      The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
      common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
      include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
      of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
      head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
      blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
      catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.

      OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
      and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
      surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
      be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
      idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
      the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
      stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
      Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
      was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
      strike. Wonderful!

      So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?



      Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

    • vanbeckump
      i m more interested in what happens to me and my crew in a lightning strike. last weekend we sailed from nianitic bay to block island (about 25 miles) despite
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1 4:24 AM
        i'm more interested in what happens to me and my crew in a lightning
        strike. last weekend we sailed from nianitic bay to block island
        (about 25 miles) despite thunderstorm warnings. the bad weather never
        materialized but if it had we would have dealt with the wind and seas
        but i have no idea how to prpare for lightning.

        peter van beckum

        s30

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:
        >
        > Somebody missed class on the day they discussed lightning.
        Lightning is
        > in the order of 10,000 amps at, oh, a million volts. The copper wires
        > in our lightning protection system work by turning into a plasma, which
        > conducts electricity quite nicely, thank you. Neither the clamp nor
        the
        > braid or the C80 chartplotter and going to make any difference, one way
        > or the other.
        >
        > If you want to protect your electronics from a direct strike, I suggest
        > you take up religion. Physics isn't going to help.
        >
        > Forget the frigging clamp. Also forget warranty protection if your
        > number is up. That's what insurance is for. If you take a direct hit,
        > maybe you'll collect it or maybe your heirs will. Hard to say. Don't
        > sweat the chart plotter.
        >
        >
        > bbay34 wrote:
        > > I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.
        > >
        > > The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
        > > indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
        > > The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
        > > common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
        > > include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
        > > of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
        > > head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
        > > blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
        > > catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.
        > >
        > > OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
        > > and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
        > > surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
        > > be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
        > > idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
        > > the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
        > > stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
        > > Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
        > > was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
        > > strike. Wonderful!
        > >
        > > So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?
        > >
        >
      • John Garvin
        Try google-ing for Saddle Clamp you ll get a bunch of results. ATtached is a sample picture. John
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 1 5:26 AM
          Try google-ing for "Saddle Clamp" you'll get a bunch
          of results. ATtached is a sample picture.

          John

          --- bbay34 <bbay34@...> wrote:

          > I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into
          > a little snag.
          >
          > The power cable has a braided shield which the
          > installation manual
          > indicates must be connected to boat ground for
          > lightning protection.
          > The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle
          > clamp" (Apparently a
          > common term in the UK where these are made.) but
          > Raymarine doesn't
          > include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to
          > Radio Shack I go - two
          > of them in fact where all I get is blank stares -
          > not unusual. Then I
          > head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop
          > and get the same
          > blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic
          > hardware
          > catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the
          > same result.
          >
          > OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine,
          > figuring I'll drive up
          > and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for
          > the real
          > surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power
          > cable shield must
          > be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these
          > clamps, and has no
          > idea where they can be found. So I suggest a
          > solution which is to wrap
          > the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp
          > it in place with a
          > stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The
          > guy from
          > Raymarine thought so too - however he could not
          > guarantee that this
          > was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the
          > event of a lightning
          > strike. Wonderful!
          >
          > So, any C-series installers out there with the
          > solution?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bill Blalock
          A saddle clamp is a pipe clamp, and you ll find those in a hardware store. As for a direct lightening hit, with any luck the mast will carry it to the keel.
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 1 5:41 AM
            A saddle clamp is a pipe clamp, and you'll find those in a hardware store.
             
            As for a direct lightening hit, with any luck the mast will carry it to the keel.  Just like when your car, house, and airplane get hit, the charge follows the easy path - car body and steel belted radials - wiring and plumbing - fuselage - to ground and you are usually unharmed, thanks to the Faraday/Faraday Cage effect as the current is directed past you.  But, lightening is funky stuff, and sometimes stray currents will zap things.  Also, the electromagnetic fields generated can fry electronics.  Some people like to keep their high value electronics in the oven, hoping for a little faraday cage shielding.
             
            All that bonding in our boats is for electrolysis prevention, but according to current wisdom : ) in Don Casey's electrical book it actually increases that particular problem.  Sabres in general do eat a lot of zincs.........I smell a new thread.....
             
            Bill B
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: bbay34
            Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:50 PM
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Has anyone installed a Raymarine C-series chartplotter?

            I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.

            The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
            indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
            The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
            common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
            include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
            of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
            head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
            blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
            catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.

            OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
            and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
            surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
            be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
            idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
            the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
            stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
            Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
            was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
            strike. Wonderful!

            So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?

          • bbay34
            Re-reading my message, I really wasn t clear about saddle clamps. I know what they are, having used them in home antenna installations and to ground electrical
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 1 6:34 AM
              Re-reading my message, I really wasn't clear about saddle clamps. I
              know what they are, having used them in home antenna installations and
              to ground electrical components to copper plumbing. Plus Raymarine
              even shows the type they expect to be used:
              http://raymarine.com/raymarine/SubmittedFiles/Handbooks/c_series/87020-3.pdf

              See page 34.

              I have Googled everywhere but haven't found one similar and small
              enough to clamp to the shield which is something less than 10mm in
              diameter.

              I will leave the lightning rathole to others. But would suggest they
              first read the experiences of Sidney Shaw in the current (Aug-06)
              Practical Sailor Mailport, page 5 regarding radar and lightning. This
              power cable to the chartplotter is also what supplies ground to the
              radar array.



              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Blalock" <mookiesurfs@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > A saddle clamp is a pipe clamp, and you'll find those in a hardware
              store.
              >
              > As for a direct lightening hit, with any luck the mast will carry it
              to the keel. Just like when your car, house, and airplane get hit,
              the charge follows the easy path - car body and steel belted radials -
              wiring and plumbing - fuselage - to ground and you are usually
              unharmed, thanks to the Faraday/Faraday Cage effect as the current is
              directed past you. But, lightening is funky stuff, and sometimes
              stray currents will zap things. Also, the electromagnetic fields
              generated can fry electronics. Some people like to keep their high
              value electronics in the oven, hoping for a little faraday cage shielding.
              >
              > All that bonding in our boats is for electrolysis prevention, but
              according to current wisdom : ) in Don Casey's electrical book it
              actually increases that particular problem. Sabres in general do eat
              a lot of zincs.........I smell a new thread.....
              >
              > Bill B
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: bbay34
              > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:50 PM
              > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Has anyone installed a Raymarine C-series
              chartplotter?
              >
              >
              > I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.
              >
              > The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
              > indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
              > The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
              > common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
              > include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
              > of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
              > head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
              > blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
              > catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.
              >
              > OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
              > and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
              > surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
              > be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
              > idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
              > the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
              > stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
              > Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
              > was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
              > strike. Wonderful!
              >
              > So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?
              >
            • john kalinowski
              Having personally been hit indirectly (twice),and my boat taking a direct hit, I would suggest you just stay below . Maybe have a cold one and laugh about it.
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 1 6:50 AM
                Having personally been hit indirectly (twice),and my boat taking a direct hit, I would suggest you just stay below . Maybe have a cold one and laugh about it. 
                You are not going to know you are hit so why worry.  
                 
                Sure smarted when I got hit though.  Did better than the guy nearby whose heart stopped. Luckily a buddy got him going again with CPR and the meatwagon took him to hospital.
                 
                Usually lightening comes with gusty winds, so if it turns purple/black at midday, I suggest you furl the sails immediately, get a gps number while you can, and power down the unneeded circuits.  lock the wheel, put down an anchor if the water is shallow enough.  If you cannot make it to your mooring, get as close to a larger sailboat and they can become your "cone of protection".
                 
                If you suspect your ground system is so-so, attach a piece of wire to a side shroud and put it over the side. Some folks say to add a set of keys for weight. What a dumb idea to lose your keys after being hit by a bolt of lightening.  strip the ends of the wire and attach anything cheap that will sink instead. Then go below and stay away from the mast, and plumbing until it clears.
                 
                john

                vanbeckump <vanbeckump@...> wrote:
                i'm more interested in what happens to me and my crew in a lightning
                strike. last weekend we sailed from nianitic bay to block island
                (about 25 miles) despite thunderstorm warnings. the bad weather never
                materialized but if it had we would have dealt with the wind and seas
                but i have no idea how to prpare for lightning.

                peter van beckum

                s30

                --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:
                >
                > Somebody missed class on the day they discussed lightning.
                Lightning is
                > in the order of 10,000 amps at, oh, a million volts. The copper wires
                > in our lightning protection system work by turning into a plasma, which
                > conducts electricity quite nicely, thank you. Neither the clamp nor
                the
                > braid or the C80 chartplotter and going to make any difference, one way
                > or the other.
                >
                > If you want to protect your electronics from a direct strike, I suggest
                > you take up religion. Physics isn't going to help.
                >
                > Forget the frigging clamp. Also forget warranty protection if your
                > number is up. That's what insurance is for. If you take a direct hit,
                > maybe you'll collect it or maybe your heirs will. Hard to say. Don't
                > sweat the chart plotter.
                >
                >
                > bbay34 wrote:
                > > I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.
                > >
                > > The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
                > > indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
                > > The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
                > > common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
                > > include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
                > > of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
                > > head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
                > > blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
                > > catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.
                > >
                > > OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
                > > and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
                > > surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
                > > be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
                > > idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
                > > the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
                > > stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
                > > Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
                > > was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
                > > strike. Wonderful!
                > >
                > > So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?
                > >
                >



                See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.

              • Bob Burns
                Speaking of lightning, make sure your boat insurance hasn t lapsed because your agent neglected to send you an invoice. Bob S28 ... From:
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 1 6:59 AM

                  Speaking of lightning, make sure your boat insurance hasn’t lapsed because your agent neglected to send you an invoice.

                   

                  Bob

                  S28

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john kalinowski
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:50 AM
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Has anyone installed a Raymarine C-series chartplotter?

                   

                  Having personally been hit indirectly (twice),and my boat taking a direct hit, I would suggest you just stay below . Maybe have a cold one and laugh about it. 

                  You are not going to know you are hit so why worry.  

                   

                  Sure smarted when I got hit though.  Did better than the guy nearby whose heart stopped. Luckily a buddy got him going again with CPR and the meatwagon took him to hospital.

                   

                  Usually lightening comes with gusty winds, so if it turns purple/black at midday, I suggest you furl the sails immediately, get a gps number while you can, and power down the unneeded circuits.  lock the wheel, put down an anchor if the water is shallow enough.  If you cannot make it to your mooring, get as close to a larger sailboat and they can become your "cone of protection".

                   

                  If you suspect your ground system is so-so, attach a piece of wire to a side shroud and put it over the side. Some folks say to add a set of keys for weight. What a dumb idea to lose your keys after being hit by a bolt of lightening.  strip the ends of the wire and attach anything cheap that will sink instead. Then go below and stay away from the mast, and plumbing until it clears.

                   

                  john

                  vanbeckump <vanbeckump@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  i'm more interested in what happens to me and my crew in a lightning
                  strike. last weekend we sailed from nianitic bay to block island
                  (about 25 miles) despite thunderstorm warnings. the bad weather never
                  materialized but if it had we would have dealt with the wind and seas
                  but i have no idea how to prpare for lightning.

                  peter van beckum

                  s30

                  --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Somebody missed class on the day they discussed lightning.
                  Lightning is
                  > in the order of 10,000 amps at, oh, a million volts. The copper wires
                  > in our lightning protection system work by turning into a plasma, which
                  > conducts electricity quite nicely, thank you. Neither the clamp nor
                  the
                  > braid or the C80 chartplotter and going to make any difference, one way
                  > or the other.
                  >
                  > If you want to protect your electronics from a direct strike, I suggest
                  > you take up religion. Physics isn't going to help.
                  >
                  > Forget the frigging clamp. Also forget warranty protection if your
                  > number is up. That's what insurance is for. If you take a direct hit,
                  > maybe you'll collect it or maybe your heirs will. Hard to say. Don't
                  > sweat the chart plotter.
                  >
                  >
                  > bbay34 wrote:
                  > > I'm installing a C80 chartplotter and have run into a little snag.
                  > >
                  > > The power cable has a braided shield which the installation manual
                  > > indicates must be connected to boat ground for lightning protection.
                  > > The instructions refer to the use of a "saddle clamp" (Apparently a
                  > > common term in the UK where these are made.) but Raymarine doesn't
                  > > include said clamp with the plotter. So, off to Radio Shack I go - two
                  > > of them in fact where all I get is blank stares - not unusual. Then I
                  > > head over to a very large electronics hobbyist shop and get the same
                  > > blank stares. Finally I check a couple of electronic hardware
                  > > catalogs, borrowed from a ham radio friend, with the same result.
                  > >
                  > > OK, today I admit defeat and call Raymarine, figuring I'll drive up
                  > > and get a clamp as Merrimack NH is close by. Now for the real
                  > > surprise; Customer Support agrees that the C80 power cable shield must
                  > > be grounded, however Raymarine doesn't supply these clamps, and has no
                  > > idea where they can be found. So I suggest a solution which is to wrap
                  > > the ground wire around the shielded cable and clamp it in place with a
                  > > stainless hose clamp. I thought this was a neat. The guy from
                  > > Raymarine thought so too - however he could not guarantee that this
                  > > was sufficient to insure warranty coverage in the event of a lightning
                  > > strike. Wonderful!
                  > >
                  > > So, any C-series installers out there with the solution?
                  > >
                  >

                   

                   


                  See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                • Jim Starkey
                  ... The cone of protection is one of NOAA s Top 10 Myths of Lightning Safety : 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when thunderstorms threaten,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 1 7:59 AM
                    john kalinowski wrote:
                    > Usually lightening comes with gusty winds, so if it turns purple/black
                    > at midday, I suggest you furl the sails immediately, get a gps number
                    > while you can, and power down the unneeded circuits. lock the wheel,
                    > put down an anchor if the water is shallow enough. If you cannot make
                    > it to your mooring, get as close to a larger sailboat and they can
                    > become your "cone of protection".
                    The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top 10 Myths of Lightning
                    Safety":

                    10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when thunderstorms
                    threaten, to be within the 45° “cone of protection”
                    TRUTH: The “cone of protection” is a myth! While tall pointy
                    isolated objects are statistically more likely to be struck
                    by lightning, it’s not nearly reliable enough to rely on for safety.
                    Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                    object. Besides, the lightning electricity will likely spread out
                    along the surface of the ground and can still kill
                    you over 100 Ft from the “protecting” object. Also, if you are close
                    to or touching the tall object, you can be
                    electrocuted via side flash or contact voltage. NO PLACE OUTSIDE IS
                    SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!

                    The rest are at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf

                    --

                    Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                    MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
                    978 526-1376
                  • gmuller22
                    ... Lightning ... thunderstorms ... safety. ... out ... close ... OUTSIDE IS ... Now that Jim has begun the scarin the livin bejesus out of everyone process
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 2 10:43 AM
                      > The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top 10 Myths of
                      Lightning
                      > Safety":
                      >
                      > 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when
                      thunderstorms
                      > threaten, to be within the 45° "cone of protection"
                      > TRUTH: The "cone of protection" is a myth! While tall pointy
                      > isolated objects are statistically more likely to be struck
                      > by lightning, it's not nearly reliable enough to rely on for
                      safety.
                      > Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                      > object. Besides, the lightning electricity will likely spread
                      out
                      > along the surface of the ground and can still kill
                      > you over 100 Ft from the "protecting" object. Also, if you are
                      close
                      > to or touching the tall object, you can be
                      > electrocuted via side flash or contact voltage. NO PLACE
                      OUTSIDE IS
                      > SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!
                      >
                      > The rest are at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                      > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
                      > 978 526-1376



                      Now that Jim has begun the "scarin the livin bejesus out of
                      everyone" process concerning lightning, I feel that it is incumbent
                      upon me to continue the process so that the extent of the terror
                      generated by Jim can be fully realized, but first a few
                      preliminaries. Behind Jim's warning is the fact that lightning is
                      one of those things that cannot yet be predicted. While the
                      conditions that can produce lightning are understood, the nature,
                      extent and location of any lightning strike are still based on
                      probabilities. To appreciate why, just consider a typical lightning
                      strike process. First, we need a cloud where heavy and wet upward
                      convection processes occur. A late afternoon hot, humid day will do
                      nicely. This makes the lower parts of the cloud negatively charged.
                      Unfortunately, the ground is positively charged. When the potential
                      gets big enough, the cloud begins to send down lots of negative
                      leaders of ionized gas (plasma) to seek out a path of least
                      resistance. Meanwhile, the ground is sending up lots of positive
                      streamers of ionized gas. Since the resistance in the air is not
                      uniform the path followed by these leaders and streamers is rather
                      jagged which is why lightning has that appearance. When a negative
                      leader randomly meets a positive streamer, the connection is
                      complete. The cloud, finding that it now has a path for all that
                      pent up voltage, discharges it violently and, voila, a lightning
                      strike.

                      Now about that "cone of protection" stuff, well it can apply but you
                      don't want to depend on it. You see, that positive streamer coming
                      up from the fround can emanate from a tall building, your mast, you,
                      or even the ground. Since the negative leader doesn't discriminate
                      about the source of a positive streamer, it connects up with the
                      first one it meets. Due to geometry the first positive streamer it
                      meets will usually be from the tallest thing around you, but it
                      doesn't have to be so and that's Jim's basic point. That connective
                      positive streamer can just as well be your mast or you or even the
                      water next to you as I personally experienced a few years ago. One
                      other thing. Lightning is not only cloud to ground, but can also be
                      ground to cloud and in that case, it mostly emanates from tall
                      structures, but as far as you're concerned that's all rather
                      academic.

                      Bottom line: If lightning is present get inside and if you're in
                      your boat get inside, but away from the mast and put on your life
                      preservers and pocket the waterproof portable because if lightning
                      finds a path to your boat it may leave through the side of your boat
                      rather dramatically.

                      Gerard
                    • Peter Tollini
                      While it s true that lightning never strikes the same place twice, don t relax - it s because it s never the same place after the first strike. I saw lightning
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 2 12:47 PM
                        While it's true that lightning never strikes the same place twice, don't relax - it's because it's never the same place after the first strike. 
                         
                        I saw lightning strike a dry locust fence post in a pasture.   Burnt streamers of grass radiated out 50-100' from the post and the phone switch in a building 100 yds away was fried.   The locust post was unharmed. 
                         
                        I've also beeen off the VA coast in a sportfisherman with  an aluminum "nosebleed" tuna tower in a wild lighting storm.   We had to be the tallest object within 20 miles, but nothing happened to us.  The aluminum tower was actually humming with a wierd white noise during the storm and glowing blue like something in a Stephen King movie.
                        Did I mention how scared I was?
                         
                        It's mean unpredictable stuff.
                        Pete 

                         
                        On 8/2/06, gmuller22 <gmuller22@...> wrote:

                        > The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top 10 Myths of
                        Lightning
                        > Safety":
                        >
                        > 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when
                        thunderstorms
                        > threaten, to be within the 45° "cone of protection"
                        > TRUTH: The "cone of protection" is a myth! While tall pointy
                        > isolated objects are statistically more likely to be struck
                        > by lightning, it's not nearly reliable enough to rely on for
                        safety.
                        > Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                        > object. Besides, the lightning electricity will likely spread
                        out
                        > along the surface of the ground and can still kill
                        > you over 100 Ft from the "protecting" object. Also, if you are
                        close
                        > to or touching the tall object, you can be
                        > electrocuted via side flash or contact voltage. NO PLACE
                        OUTSIDE IS
                        > SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!
                        >
                        > The rest are at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                        > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
                        > 978 526-1376

                        Now that Jim has begun the "scarin the livin bejesus out of
                        everyone" process concerning lightning, I feel that it is incumbent
                        upon me to continue the process so that the extent of the terror
                        generated by Jim can be fully realized, but first a few
                        preliminaries. Behind Jim's warning is the fact that lightning is
                        one of those things that cannot yet be predicted. While the
                        conditions that can produce lightning are understood, the nature,
                        extent and location of any lightning strike are still based on
                        probabilities. To appreciate why, just consider a typical lightning
                        strike process. First, we need a cloud where heavy and wet upward
                        convection processes occur. A late afternoon hot, humid day will do
                        nicely. This makes the lower parts of the cloud negatively charged.
                        Unfortunately, the ground is positively charged. When the potential
                        gets big enough, the cloud begins to send down lots of negative
                        leaders of ionized gas (plasma) to seek out a path of least
                        resistance. Meanwhile, the ground is sending up lots of positive
                        streamers of ionized gas. Since the resistance in the air is not
                        uniform the path followed by these leaders and streamers is rather
                        jagged which is why lightning has that appearance. When a negative
                        leader randomly meets a positive streamer, the connection is
                        complete. The cloud, finding that it now has a path for all that
                        pent up voltage, discharges it violently and, voila, a lightning
                        strike.

                        Now about that "cone of protection" stuff, well it can apply but you
                        don't want to depend on it. You see, that positive streamer coming
                        up from the fround can emanate from a tall building, your mast, you,
                        or even the ground. Since the negative leader doesn't discriminate
                        about the source of a positive streamer, it connects up with the
                        first one it meets. Due to geometry the first positive streamer it
                        meets will usually be from the tallest thing around you, but it
                        doesn't have to be so and that's Jim's basic point. That connective
                        positive streamer can just as well be your mast or you or even the
                        water next to you as I personally experienced a few years ago. One
                        other thing. Lightning is not only cloud to ground, but can also be
                        ground to cloud and in that case, it mostly emanates from tall
                        structures, but as far as you're concerned that's all rather
                        academic.

                        Bottom line: If lightning is present get inside and if you're in
                        your boat get inside, but away from the mast and put on your life
                        preservers and pocket the waterproof portable because if lightning
                        finds a path to your boat it may leave through the side of your boat
                        rather dramatically.

                        Gerard


                      • David Felsenthal
                        My dad s boat was hit a few years ago. BANG! right on the masthead. Lots of broken electronics, blown alternators, etc. He dropped the hook to take stock.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 2 1:08 PM
                          My dad's boat was hit a few years ago. BANG! right on the masthead. Lots
                          of broken electronics, blown alternators, etc. He dropped the hook to
                          take stock. Singlehanding at the time. The worst was pulling 100' of
                          chain with a 50 lb anchor on it by hand 'cause the windlass was fried.

                          David


                          Peter Tollini wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > While it's true that lightning never strikes the same place twice, don't
                          > relax - it's because it's never the same place after the first strike.
                          >
                          > I saw lightning strike a dry locust fence post in a pasture. Burnt
                          > streamers of grass radiated out 50-100' from the post and the phone
                          > switch in a building 100 yds away was fried. The locust post was
                          > unharmed.
                          >
                          > I've also beeen off the VA coast in a sportfisherman with an aluminum
                          > "nosebleed" tuna tower in a wild lighting storm. We had to be the
                          > tallest object within 20 miles, but nothing happened to us. The
                          > aluminum tower was actually humming with a wierd white noise during the
                          > storm and glowing blue like something in a Stephen King movie.
                          > Did I mention how scared I was?
                          >
                          > It's mean unpredictable stuff.
                          > Pete
                          >
                          >
                          > On 8/2/06, *gmuller22* <gmuller22@...
                          > <mailto:gmuller22@...>> wrote:
                          >
                          > > The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top 10 Myths of
                          > Lightning
                          > > Safety":
                          > >
                          > > 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when
                          > thunderstorms
                          > > threaten, to be within the 45° "cone of protection"
                          > > TRUTH: The "cone of protection" is a myth! While tall pointy
                          > > isolated objects are statistically more likely to be struck
                          > > by lightning, it's not nearly reliable enough to rely on for
                          > safety.
                          > > Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                          > > object. Besides, the lightning electricity will likely spread
                          > out
                          > > along the surface of the ground and can still kill
                          > > you over 100 Ft from the "protecting" object. Also, if you are
                          > close
                          > > to or touching the tall object, you can be
                          > > electrocuted via side flash or contact voltage. NO PLACE
                          > OUTSIDE IS
                          > > SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!
                          > >
                          > > The rest are at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf
                          > <http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf>
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > >
                          > > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                          > > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com <http://www.mysql.com/>
                          > > 978 526-1376
                          >
                          > Now that Jim has begun the "scarin the livin bejesus out of
                          > everyone" process concerning lightning, I feel that it is incumbent
                          > upon me to continue the process so that the extent of the terror
                          > generated by Jim can be fully realized, but first a few
                          > preliminaries. Behind Jim's warning is the fact that lightning is
                          > one of those things that cannot yet be predicted. While the
                          > conditions that can produce lightning are understood, the nature,
                          > extent and location of any lightning strike are still based on
                          > probabilities. To appreciate why, just consider a typical lightning
                          > strike process. First, we need a cloud where heavy and wet upward
                          > convection processes occur. A late afternoon hot, humid day will do
                          > nicely. This makes the lower parts of the cloud negatively charged.
                          > Unfortunately, the ground is positively charged. When the potential
                          > gets big enough, the cloud begins to send down lots of negative
                          > leaders of ionized gas (plasma) to seek out a path of least
                          > resistance. Meanwhile, the ground is sending up lots of positive
                          > streamers of ionized gas. Since the resistance in the air is not
                          > uniform the path followed by these leaders and streamers is rather
                          > jagged which is why lightning has that appearance. When a negative
                          > leader randomly meets a positive streamer, the connection is
                          > complete. The cloud, finding that it now has a path for all that
                          > pent up voltage, discharges it violently and, voila, a lightning
                          > strike.
                          >
                          > Now about that "cone of protection" stuff, well it can apply but you
                          > don't want to depend on it. You see, that positive streamer coming
                          > up from the fround can emanate from a tall building, your mast, you,
                          > or even the ground. Since the negative leader doesn't discriminate
                          > about the source of a positive streamer, it connects up with the
                          > first one it meets. Due to geometry the first positive streamer it
                          > meets will usually be from the tallest thing around you, but it
                          > doesn't have to be so and that's Jim's basic point. That connective
                          > positive streamer can just as well be your mast or you or even the
                          > water next to you as I personally experienced a few years ago. One
                          > other thing. Lightning is not only cloud to ground, but can also be
                          > ground to cloud and in that case, it mostly emanates from tall
                          > structures, but as far as you're concerned that's all rather
                          > academic.
                          >
                          > Bottom line: If lightning is present get inside and if you're in
                          > your boat get inside, but away from the mast and put on your life
                          > preservers and pocket the waterproof portable because if lightning
                          > finds a path to your boat it may leave through the side of your boat
                          > rather dramatically.
                          >
                          > Gerard
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          David
                          Atlantea, Sabre 38 MKII
                        • workshoe99
                          Wow! Just for fun years ago I used to sail a Lightning. Never knew I was in that much danger- smiles. All kidding aside, lightening is not something to be
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 2 9:04 PM
                            Wow! Just for fun years ago I used to sail a Lightning. Never knew I
                            was in that much danger- smiles.

                            All kidding aside, lightening is not something to be taken lightly.
                            I'm glad we don't have any out here on the West coast at least until
                            you get down in Central America; then watch out!

                            Jan, San Diego


                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "gmuller22" <gmuller22@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top 10 Myths of
                            > Lightning
                            > > Safety":
                            > >
                            > > 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated object when
                            > thunderstorms
                            > > threaten, to be within the 45° "cone of protection"
                            > > TRUTH: The "cone of protection" is a myth! While tall pointy
                            > > isolated objects are statistically more likely to be struck
                            > > by lightning, it's not nearly reliable enough to rely on for
                            > safety.
                            > > Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                            > > object. Besides, the lightning electricity will likely spread
                            > out
                            > > along the surface of the ground and can still kill
                            > > you over 100 Ft from the "protecting" object. Also, if you are
                            > close
                            > > to or touching the tall object, you can be
                            > > electrocuted via side flash or contact voltage. NO PLACE
                            > OUTSIDE IS
                            > > SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!
                            > >
                            > > The rest are at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > >
                            > > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                            > > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
                            > > 978 526-1376
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Now that Jim has begun the "scarin the livin bejesus out of
                            > everyone" process concerning lightning, I feel that it is incumbent
                            > upon me to continue the process so that the extent of the terror
                            > generated by Jim can be fully realized, but first a few
                            > preliminaries. Behind Jim's warning is the fact that lightning is
                            > one of those things that cannot yet be predicted. While the
                            > conditions that can produce lightning are understood, the nature,
                            > extent and location of any lightning strike are still based on
                            > probabilities. To appreciate why, just consider a typical lightning
                            > strike process. First, we need a cloud where heavy and wet upward
                            > convection processes occur. A late afternoon hot, humid day will do
                            > nicely. This makes the lower parts of the cloud negatively charged.
                            > Unfortunately, the ground is positively charged. When the potential
                            > gets big enough, the cloud begins to send down lots of negative
                            > leaders of ionized gas (plasma) to seek out a path of least
                            > resistance. Meanwhile, the ground is sending up lots of positive
                            > streamers of ionized gas. Since the resistance in the air is not
                            > uniform the path followed by these leaders and streamers is rather
                            > jagged which is why lightning has that appearance. When a negative
                            > leader randomly meets a positive streamer, the connection is
                            > complete. The cloud, finding that it now has a path for all that
                            > pent up voltage, discharges it violently and, voila, a lightning
                            > strike.
                            >
                            > Now about that "cone of protection" stuff, well it can apply but you
                            > don't want to depend on it. You see, that positive streamer coming
                            > up from the fround can emanate from a tall building, your mast, you,
                            > or even the ground. Since the negative leader doesn't discriminate
                            > about the source of a positive streamer, it connects up with the
                            > first one it meets. Due to geometry the first positive streamer it
                            > meets will usually be from the tallest thing around you, but it
                            > doesn't have to be so and that's Jim's basic point. That connective
                            > positive streamer can just as well be your mast or you or even the
                            > water next to you as I personally experienced a few years ago. One
                            > other thing. Lightning is not only cloud to ground, but can also be
                            > ground to cloud and in that case, it mostly emanates from tall
                            > structures, but as far as you're concerned that's all rather
                            > academic.
                            >
                            > Bottom line: If lightning is present get inside and if you're in
                            > your boat get inside, but away from the mast and put on your life
                            > preservers and pocket the waterproof portable because if lightning
                            > finds a path to your boat it may leave through the side of your boat
                            > rather dramatically.
                            >
                            > Gerard
                            >
                          • jack horner
                            Workshoe, I lived close to the Lippencotte lighting yard in New Jersey, and learned to sail them on Barneget Bay NJ. 30 miles north of Alantic City. All
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 3 2:44 AM
                              Workshoe, I lived close to the Lippencotte "lighting"
                              yard in New Jersey, and learned to sail them on
                              Barneget Bay NJ. 30 miles north of Alantic City. All
                              wood ,neat boat, great training.! Jack now /FLA
                              > Wow! Just for fun years ago I used to sail a
                              > Lightning. Never knew I
                              > was in that much danger- smiles.
                              >
                              > All kidding aside, lightening is not something to be
                              > taken lightly.
                              > I'm glad we don't have any out here on the West
                              > coast at least until
                              > you get down in Central America; then watch out!
                              >
                              > Jan, San Diego
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "gmuller22"
                              > <gmuller22@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > The "cone of protection" is one of NOAA's "Top
                              > 10 Myths of
                              > > Lightning
                              > > > Safety":
                              > > >
                              > > > 10. MYTH: Go near a tall pointy isolated
                              > object when
                              > > thunderstorms
                              > > > threaten, to be within the 45° "cone of
                              > protection"
                              > > > TRUTH: The "cone of protection" is a myth!
                              > While tall pointy
                              > > > isolated objects are statistically more
                              > likely to be struck
                              > > > by lightning, it's not nearly reliable
                              > enough to rely on for
                              > > safety.
                              > > > Lightning can still strike you near the tall
                              > > > object. Besides, the lightning electricity
                              > will likely spread
                              > > out
                              > > > along the surface of the ground and can
                              > still kill
                              > > > you over 100 Ft from the "protecting"
                              > object. Also, if you are
                              > > close
                              > > > to or touching the tall object, you can be
                              > > > electrocuted via side flash or contact
                              > voltage. NO PLACE
                              > > OUTSIDE IS
                              > > > SAFE NEAR A THUNDERSTORM!
                              > > >
                              > > > The rest are at
                              > http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/hnx/LightningMyths-1.pdf
                              > > >
                              > > > --
                              > > >
                              > > > Jim Starkey, Senior Software Architect
                              > > > MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
                              > > > 978 526-1376
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Now that Jim has begun the "scarin the livin
                              > bejesus out of
                              > > everyone" process concerning lightning, I feel
                              > that it is incumbent
                              > > upon me to continue the process so that the extent
                              > of the terror
                              > > generated by Jim can be fully realized, but first
                              > a few
                              > > preliminaries. Behind Jim's warning is the fact
                              > that lightning is
                              > > one of those things that cannot yet be predicted.
                              > While the
                              > > conditions that can produce lightning are
                              > understood, the nature,
                              > > extent and location of any lightning strike are
                              > still based on
                              > > probabilities. To appreciate why, just consider a
                              > typical lightning
                              > > strike process. First, we need a cloud where heavy
                              > and wet upward
                              > > convection processes occur. A late afternoon hot,
                              > humid day will do
                              > > nicely. This makes the lower parts of the cloud
                              > negatively charged.
                              > > Unfortunately, the ground is positively charged.
                              > When the potential
                              > > gets big enough, the cloud begins to send down
                              > lots of negative
                              > > leaders of ionized gas (plasma) to seek out a path
                              > of least
                              > > resistance. Meanwhile, the ground is sending up
                              > lots of positive
                              > > streamers of ionized gas. Since the resistance in
                              > the air is not
                              > > uniform the path followed by these leaders and
                              > streamers is rather
                              > > jagged which is why lightning has that appearance.
                              > When a negative
                              > > leader randomly meets a positive streamer, the
                              > connection is
                              > > complete. The cloud, finding that it now has a
                              > path for all that
                              > > pent up voltage, discharges it violently and,
                              > voila, a lightning
                              > > strike.
                              > >
                              > > Now about that "cone of protection" stuff, well it
                              > can apply but you
                              > > don't want to depend on it. You see, that positive
                              > streamer coming
                              > > up from the fround can emanate from a tall
                              > building, your mast, you,
                              > > or even the ground. Since the negative leader
                              > doesn't discriminate
                              > > about the source of a positive streamer, it
                              > connects up with the
                              > > first one it meets. Due to geometry the first
                              > positive streamer it
                              > > meets will usually be from the tallest thing
                              > around you, but it
                              > > doesn't have to be so and that's Jim's basic
                              > point. That connective
                              > > positive streamer can just as well be your mast or
                              > you or even the
                              > > water next to you as I personally experienced a
                              > few years ago. One
                              > > other thing. Lightning is not only cloud to
                              > ground, but can also be
                              > > ground to cloud and in that case, it mostly
                              > emanates from tall
                              > > structures, but as far as you're concerned that's
                              > all rather
                              > > academic.
                              > >
                              > > Bottom line: If lightning is present get inside
                              > and if you're in
                              > > your boat get inside, but away from the mast and
                              > put on your life
                              > > preservers and pocket the waterproof portable
                              > because if lightning
                              > > finds a path to your boat it may leave through the
                              > side of your boat
                              > > rather dramatically.
                              > >
                              > > Gerard
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.