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S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot

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  • Kevin
    Hello Everyone. I hope your Spring is going well. Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a
    Message 1 of 14 , May 17, 2013
      Hello Everyone.

      I hope your Spring is going well.

      Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....

      Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.

      Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?

      What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.

      My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.

      I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.

      Any thoughts would be great.


      Kevin
      Veritas
      Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
      1986 S 30 Mk III
    • Scott
      Kevin, This link will give you an idea on the job: http://mjsailing.com/projects/replacing-backstay-bulkhead/ This job was done on a 34 MkII that s sailing
      Message 2 of 14 , May 17, 2013
        Kevin,

        This link will give you an idea on the job:


        This job was done on a 34 MkII that's sailing somewhere near Jamaica at this point. 

        Scott

        Sent from my iPad

        On May 17, 2013, at 9:02 PM, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:

         

        Hello Everyone.

        I hope your Spring is going well.

        Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....

        Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.

        Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?

        What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.

        My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.

        I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.

        Any thoughts would be great.

        Kevin
        Veritas
        Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
        1986 S 30 Mk III

      • Barry Wilson
        Kevin, I did this task on my 28 a couple years ago. Scott s blog is great info.  Instead of plywood, I used fiberglass board that my neighbor had a little
        Message 3 of 14 , May 18, 2013
          Kevin,
          I did this task on my 28 a couple years ago. Scott's blog is great info.  Instead of plywood, I used fiberglass board that my neighbor had a little of.  I don't think I would trust the rot doctor.  When I took mine out the wood was soaked.  Sabre put horizontal angles of plywood under the deck to keep the gusset aligned.  Mine rotted out years ago so I am not sure how important they are.  If you use plywood I wood make sure the top is well sealed.  On mine the structure acted almost like a bucket with an open top.  The wood just soaked up the water from the chainplate leak.
           
          When I tried to remove mine I tried an oscillating dremel tool.  No go, at least not in a reasonable time frame.  If you don't have one, now it the time to get an angle grinder.  If made short work of removal.
           
          Barry Wilson
          Slipstream S28 #400

          From: Scott <targa387@...>
          To: "Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com" <Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
           
          Kevin,

          This link will give you an idea on the job:


          This job was done on a 34 MkII that's sailing somewhere near Jamaica at this point. 

          Scott
          Sent from my iPad
          On May 17, 2013, at 9:02 PM, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
           
          Hello Everyone.

          I hope your Spring is going well.

          Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....

          Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.

          Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?

          What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.

          My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.

          I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.

          Any thoughts would be great.

          Kevin
          Veritas
          Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
          1986 S 30 Mk III

        • bruixa1
          Hi Kevin, I had the same thing on my 79 28. My solution was less elegant and authentic than Scott s, but it worked. The knee on mine was too waterlogged to
          Message 4 of 14 , May 18, 2013
            Hi Kevin,
            I had the same thing on my '79 28. My solution was less elegant and authentic than Scott's, but it worked. The knee on mine was too waterlogged to get out in one piece to use as a template. If your plywood is mushy, like mine was, this might work.

            - cut the forward edge of the knee out, meaning cut open the fiberglass casing in which the rotting wood lies. As you look down on the problem facing aft, this is the rounded edge closest to you. Make an opening the height of the knee and wide enough to

            1. dig/dremel drill out all the wood you can
            2. insert a pre-cut piece of g10 into the area where the plywood was
            3. fill the interstices with epoxy + filler with a small injector to fill the nooks and crannies
            4. glass it back up again
            I also replaced the horizontal piece of plywood above the knee, using g10, and epoxied it in.

            I can sent you pics of what it looks like if you'd like - it's not pretty, but it solved the problem and strengthened the stern.

            cheers
            Elisa


            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@...> wrote:
            >
            > Kevin,
            > I did this task on my 28 a couple years ago. Scott's blog is great info.  Instead of plywood, I used fiberglass board that my neighbor had a little of.  I don't think I would trust the rot doctor.  When I took mine out the wood was soaked.  Sabre put horizontal angles of plywood under the deck to keep the gusset aligned.  Mine rotted out years ago so I am not sure how important they are.  If you use plywood I wood make sure the top is well sealed.  On mine the structure acted almost like a bucket with an open top.  The wood just soaked up the water from the chainplate leak.
            >  
            > When I tried to remove mine I tried an oscillating dremel tool.  No go, at least not in a reasonable time frame.  If you don't have one, now it the time to get an angle grinder.  If made short work of removal.
            >  
            > Barry Wilson
            > Slipstream S28 #400
            >
            > From: Scott <targa387@...>
            > To: "Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com" <Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:45 PM
            > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
            >
            >  
            > Kevin,
            >
            > This link will give you an idea on the job:
            >
            > http://mjsailing.com/projects/replacing-backstay-bulkhead/
            >
            > This job was done on a 34 MkII that's sailing somewhere near Jamaica at this point. 
            >
            > Scott
            > Sent from my iPad
            > On May 17, 2013, at 9:02 PM, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
            >  
            > >Hello Everyone.
            > >
            > >I hope your Spring is going well.
            > >
            > >Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
            > >
            > >Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
            > >
            > >Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
            > >
            > >What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
            > >
            > >My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
            > >
            > >I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
            > >
            > >Any thoughts would be great.
            > >
            > >Kevin
            > >Veritas
            > >Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
            > >1986 S 30 Mk III
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Scott
            Please note: The link I sent is not my blog. (I wish I was on such an adventure...) Scott Sent from my iPad
            Message 5 of 14 , May 18, 2013
              Please note: The link I sent is not my blog. (I wish I was on such an adventure...)

              Scott

              Sent from my iPad

              On May 18, 2013, at 11:42 AM, "bruixa1" <rhodese@...> wrote:

               

              Hi Kevin,
              I had the same thing on my '79 28. My solution was less elegant and authentic than Scott's, but it worked. The knee on mine was too waterlogged to get out in one piece to use as a template. If your plywood is mushy, like mine was, this might work.

              - cut the forward edge of the knee out, meaning cut open the fiberglass casing in which the rotting wood lies. As you look down on the problem facing aft, this is the rounded edge closest to you. Make an opening the height of the knee and wide enough to

              1. dig/dremel drill out all the wood you can
              2. insert a pre-cut piece of g10 into the area where the plywood was
              3. fill the interstices with epoxy + filler with a small injector to fill the nooks and crannies
              4. glass it back up again
              I also replaced the horizontal piece of plywood above the knee, using g10, and epoxied it in.

              I can sent you pics of what it looks like if you'd like - it's not pretty, but it solved the problem and strengthened the stern.

              cheers
              Elisa

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@...> wrote:
              >
              > Kevin,
              > I did this task on my 28 a couple years ago. Scott's blog is great info.  Instead of plywood, I used fiberglass board that my neighbor had a little of.  I don't think I would trust the rot doctor.  When I took mine out the wood was soaked.  Sabre put horizontal angles of plywood under the deck to keep the gusset aligned.  Mine rotted out years ago so I am not sure how important they are.  If you use plywood I wood make sure the top is well sealed.  On mine the structure acted almost like a bucket with an open top.  The wood just soaked up the water from the chainplate leak.
              >  
              > When I tried to remove mine I tried an oscillating dremel tool.  No go, at least not in a reasonable time frame.  If you don't have one, now it the time to get an angle grinder.  If made short work of removal.
              >  
              > Barry Wilson
              > Slipstream S28 #400
              >
              > From: Scott <targa387@...>
              > To: "Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com" <Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:45 PM
              > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
              >
              >  
              > Kevin,
              >
              > This link will give you an idea on the job:
              >
              > http://mjsailing.com/projects/replacing-backstay-bulkhead/
              >
              > This job was done on a 34 MkII that's sailing somewhere near Jamaica at this point. 
              >
              > Scott
              > Sent from my iPad
              > On May 17, 2013, at 9:02 PM, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
              >  
              > >Hello Everyone.
              > >
              > >I hope your Spring is going well.
              > >
              > >Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
              > >
              > >Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
              > >
              > >Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
              > >
              > >What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
              > >
              > >My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
              > >
              > >I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
              > >
              > >Any thoughts would be great.
              > >
              > >Kevin
              > >Veritas
              > >Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
              > >1986 S 30 Mk III
              > >
              > >
              >

            • Kevin
              Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue. About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into
              Message 6 of 14 , May 18, 2013
                Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue.

                About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into a time issue here. If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.


                Also What is g-10?



                Kevin






                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Everyone.
                >
                > I hope your Spring is going well.
                >
                > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                >
                > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                >
                > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                >
                > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                >
                > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                >
                > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                >
                > Any thoughts would be great.
                >
                >
                > Kevin
                > Veritas
                > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                >
              • John Poutier
                Kevin, A quick search for G-10 fiberglass resulted in this from Jamestown Distributors:
                Message 7 of 14 , May 18, 2013
                  Kevin,

                  A quick search for G-10 fiberglass resulted in this from Jamestown Distributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8758.  It may help get you started.

                  John
                  (your neighbor w the S28)



                  From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                  Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot

                  Thanks for the links and ideas.  Obviously I am not alone with this issue.

                  About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job?  I am running into a time issue here.  If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will  miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.


                  Also What is g-10?



                  Kevin






                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Everyone.
                  >
                  > I hope your Spring is going well.
                  >
                  > Pulled the backstay chainplate today.  The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker.  The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                  >
                  > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat.  The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling.  The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck  opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well.  I drilled a couple of small holes  in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went.  A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out.  I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                  >
                  > Trying to figure out what to do.  Has anyone else had this happen?
                  >
                  > What I do not know is if  that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                  >
                  > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                  >
                  >  I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                  >
                  > Any thoughts would be great.
                  >
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  > Veritas
                  > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                  > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                  >




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                • Kevin
                  Hey John, Thanks. Kevin
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 19, 2013
                    Hey John,


                    Thanks.


                    Kevin



                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, John Poutier <poutierj@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Kevin,
                    >
                    > A quick search for G-10 fiberglass resulted in this from Jamestown Distributors: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8758.%c2%a0 It may help get you started.
                    >
                    > John
                    > (your neighbor w the S28)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                    > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                    > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks for the links and ideas.  Obviously I am not alone with this issue.
                    >
                    > About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job?  I am running into a time issue here.  If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will  miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.
                    >
                    >
                    > Also What is g-10?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Kevin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Everyone.
                    > >
                    > > I hope your Spring is going well.
                    > >
                    > > Pulled the backstay chainplate today.  The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker.  The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                    > >
                    > > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat.  The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling.  The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck  opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well.  I drilled a couple of small holes  in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went.  A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out.  I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                    > >
                    > > Trying to figure out what to do.  Has anyone else had this happen?
                    > >
                    > > What I do not know is if  that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                    > >
                    > > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                    > >
                    > >  I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                    > >
                    > > Any thoughts would be great.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Kevin
                    > > Veritas
                    > > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                    > > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • Barry Wilson
                    I did mine over a couple weeks only because that is how it fit into my schedule.  If you focused on it, you could get this done in a weekend or two.  The
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 19, 2013
                      I did mine over a couple weeks only because that is how it fit into my schedule.  If you focused on it, you could get this done in a weekend or two.  The challenge will probably be waiting for things to dry out and resin to set. I launched without a backstay.  Although, all we needed to do was motor around the corner on a calm day in the river.  With a halyard pulled aft, the mast is stable for calm waters.
                      Barry Wilson
                      Slipstream S28 #400

                      From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                      Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                       
                      Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue.

                      About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into a time issue here. If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.

                      Also What is g-10?

                      Kevin

                      --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Everyone.
                      >
                      > I hope your Spring is going well.
                      >
                      > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                      >
                      > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                      >
                      > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                      >
                      > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                      >
                      > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                      >
                      > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                      >
                      > Any thoughts would be great.
                      >
                      >
                      > Kevin
                      > Veritas
                      > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                      > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                      >

                    • Kevin
                      Barry, Would it be better to do it on the hard rather than in the water? I am on a floating dock which is protected. Only during thunderstorms would I be
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 19, 2013
                        Barry,

                        Would it be better to do it on the hard rather than in the water? I am on a floating dock which is protected. Only during thunderstorms would I be worried.

                        I do have 2 halyards I can run aft to support the mast.


                        Kevin




                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I did mine over a couple weeks only because that is how it fit into my schedule.  If you focused on it, you could get this done in a weekend or two.  The challenge will probably be waiting for things to dry out and resin to set. I launched without a backstay.  Although, all we needed to do was motor around the corner on a calm day in the river.  With a halyard pulled aft, the mast is stable for calm waters.
                        > Barry Wilson
                        > Slipstream S28 #400
                        >
                        > From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                        > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                        > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                        >
                        >  
                        > Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue.
                        >
                        > About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into a time issue here. If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.
                        >
                        > Also What is g-10?
                        >
                        > Kevin
                        >
                        > --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Everyone.
                        > >
                        > > I hope your Spring is going well.
                        > >
                        > > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                        > >
                        > > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                        > >
                        > > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                        > >
                        > > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                        > >
                        > > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                        > >
                        > > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                        > >
                        > > Any thoughts would be great.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Kevin
                        > > Veritas
                        > > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                        > > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                        > >
                        >
                      • Barry Wilson
                        I don t know that it matters.  I tore mine out on the hard, but ran out of time and did all the rebuilding at the pier.  I took only the main halyard back to
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 19, 2013
                          I don't know that it matters.  I tore mine out on the hard, but ran out of time and did all the rebuilding at the pier.  I took only the main halyard back to another line split to both of the stern cleats.  I then simply snugged up the halyard.  I think the real question is how much fore and aft rocking do you get.  If you are exposed bow or stern first to waves, I wouldn't want to be without the backstay if the waves get real busy.  My marina is a near perfect hurricane hole and there are never waves, except for slow moving boat wakes. Someone else may have better insight on this, but I think the mast is pretty stable with all the other shrouds on and the halyard to the stern and would be fine in most marinas.
                           
                          Barry Wilson 

                          From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:23 PM
                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                           
                          Barry,

                          Would it be better to do it on the hard rather than in the water? I am on a floating dock which is protected. Only during thunderstorms would I be worried.

                          I do have 2 halyards I can run aft to support the mast.

                          Kevin

                          --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I did mine over a couple weeks only because that is how it fit into my schedule.  If you focused on it, you could get this done in a weekend or two.  The challenge will probably be waiting for things to dry out and resin to set. I launched without a backstay.  Although, all we needed to do was motor around the corner on a calm day in the river.  With a halyard pulled aft, the mast is stable for calm waters.
                          > Barry Wilson
                          > Slipstream S28 #400
                          >
                          > From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                          > To: mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                          > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                          >
                          >  
                          > Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue.
                          >
                          > About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into a time issue here. If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.
                          >
                          > Also What is g-10?
                          >
                          > Kevin
                          >
                          > --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Everyone.
                          > >
                          > > I hope your Spring is going well.
                          > >
                          > > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                          > >
                          > > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                          > >
                          > > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                          > >
                          > > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                          > >
                          > > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                          > >
                          > > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                          > >
                          > > Any thoughts would be great.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Kevin
                          > > Veritas
                          > > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                          > > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                          > >
                          >

                        • bruixa1
                          Kevin, It took three days, after the g10 was cut, to fix my backstay chainplate knee, and I had help. My boat was on the hard when I did it, but if you can
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 19, 2013
                            Kevin,
                            It took three days, after the g10 was cut, to fix my backstay chainplate knee, and I had help. My boat was on the hard when I did it, but if you can secure your backstay elsewhere I don't see why you can't do it in the water. I was advised to let the epoxy set several days before tightening the chainplate screws and bolts.
                            good luck
                            Elisa

                            I'm assuming by now you've got the scoop on what g10 is - I got pieces from a local rigger.

                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't know that it matters.  I tore mine out on the hard, but ran out of time and did all the rebuilding at the pier.  I took only the main halyard back to another line split to both of the stern cleats.  I then simply snugged up the halyard.  I think the real question is how much fore and aft rocking do you get.  If you are exposed bow or stern first to waves, I wouldn't want to be without the backstay if the waves get real busy.  My marina is a near perfect hurricane hole and there are never waves, except for slow moving boat wakes. Someone else may have better insight on this, but I think the mast is pretty stable with all the other shrouds on and the halyard to the stern and would be fine in most marinas.
                            >  
                            > Barry Wilson 
                            >
                            > From: Kevin <Khartz86@...>
                            > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:23 PM
                            > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                            >
                            >  
                            > Barry,
                            >
                            > Would it be better to do it on the hard rather than in the water? I am on a floating dock which is protected. Only during thunderstorms would I be worried.
                            >
                            > I do have 2 halyards I can run aft to support the mast.
                            >
                            > Kevin
                            >
                            > --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, Barry Wilson <bwilson506@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I did mine over a couple weeks only because that is how it fit into my schedule.  If you focused on it, you could get this done in a weekend or two.  The challenge will probably be waiting for things to dry out and resin to set. I launched without a backstay.  Although, all we needed to do was motor around the corner on a calm day in the river.  With a halyard pulled aft, the mast is stable for calm waters.
                            > > Barry Wilson
                            > > Slipstream S28 #400
                            > >
                            > > From: Kevin <Khartz86@>
                            > > To: mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:10 PM
                            > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: S-30 MK III Backstay chainplate attachment member - rot
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > > Thanks for the links and ideas. Obviously I am not alone with this issue.
                            > >
                            > > About how long did it take you who fixed it to complete the job? I am running into a time issue here. If it takes me too long to get it fixed we will miss our sailing windows with my time off from work this summer.
                            > >
                            > > Also What is g-10?
                            > >
                            > > Kevin
                            > >
                            > > --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello Everyone.
                            > > >
                            > > > I hope your Spring is going well.
                            > > >
                            > > > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                            > > >
                            > > > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                            > > >
                            > > > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                            > > >
                            > > > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                            > > >
                            > > > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                            > > >
                            > > > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                            > > >
                            > > > Any thoughts would be great.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Kevin
                            > > > Veritas
                            > > > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                            > > > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • sailor11767
                            Kevin, You ve had a bunch of good responses, but I ll add a few more thoughts (some rather radical). * That structure is a Knee. * Holding up the mast is a
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 20, 2013
                              Kevin,

                              You've had a bunch of good responses, but I'll add a few more thoughts (some rather radical).

                              * That structure is a "Knee."

                              * Holding up the mast is a non-issue. Not sure of the 28, but most Sabres have after lowers. That coupled with our telephone pole sections, and there's no issue. The main halyard to the stern cleats (or if you have those nifty -- but useless -- holes at the corners, they would do too).

                              * I repaired some minor rot on my forward lower on my 34. Not terribly bad, so I was able to repair rather than replace. But I spent a lot of time thinking about the structure. I'm not sure how much strength the wood actually adds. Consider that the wood is not attached to the hull, so it is only attached to the glass which is attached to the hull The chainplates are attached to the glass and the wood by bolts, but does bolting to a loose piece of wood add any strength? Also, it is laminated with polyester, which is a good glasswork resin but a lousy woodwork resin, so wood isn't really attached to the glass. I think it provides *some* load spreading at the bolts, but primarily provides stiffness and compression strength at the bolts. I think all the brute strength is taken by the bolts which pass the load to the glass which is attached to the hull.

                              * If you can get your hands on some good dry pressure treated plywood, that's what I would use. The use a really high quality product on pontoon boat decks, if you can get it. No more rot, ever. The stuff at Home Depot probably won't cut it (but see my comments about strength above).

                              * I'd consider sailing and fix it later. Remember, it's been this way a while. (And see my comments about strength above).

                              * And maybe I should look at mine....

                              Harry
                              Analysis
                              '79 S34-I #063
                              Mill Creek, Annapolis



                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Everyone.
                              >
                              > I hope your Spring is going well.
                              >
                              > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                              >
                              > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                              >
                              > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                              >
                              > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                              >
                              > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                              >
                              > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                              >
                              > Any thoughts would be great.
                              >
                              >
                              > Kevin
                              > Veritas
                              > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                              > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                              >
                            • Kevin
                              I have had a bunch of good responses thanks fellas. Since I am on the hard in yard mode, with the boat blown up, and tools stuffed in the jeep and have some
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 21, 2013
                                I have had a bunch of good responses thanks fellas.

                                Since I am on the hard in yard mode, with the boat blown up, and tools stuffed in the jeep and have some time as it keeps raining and I cant get the bottom paint on....

                                I cut the knee out yesterday.

                                It was mush the entire area where the bolts go through. Not much compression strength left there.

                                Today will be grinding the rest back and making the new piece.


                                Kevin




                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <Khartz86@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello Everyone.
                                >
                                > I hope your Spring is going well.
                                >
                                > Pulled the backstay chainplate today. The chainplate I have goes through the deck and then bolts to a fiberglass support inside the aft seat locker. The bottom of the chainplate, is painted brown and it bolts athwartship to that support member not through the transom. I am not sure what the support member is called that the chain plate is bolted to, but....
                                >
                                > Upon inpsection I Discovered the chainplate has been leaking for many years more than just the 2.5 I have had the boat. The wood on the through bolt holes is soft to rotten. they were not glassed in after drilling. The wood at the top of that pieces right below the deck opening for the chainplate to pass through is all rotten as well. I drilled a couple of small holes in the fiberlgass member to see how far down the rot went. A few inches below the bottom hole for the chainplate bolts when I drilled a hole I got water to drip out. I stopped there. It was still dripping when I left the boat.
                                >
                                > Trying to figure out what to do. Has anyone else had this happen?
                                >
                                > What I do not know is if that wood inside all that glass is supposed to be the structural support or is the glass itself the structure? I would guess this has been rotten for a few years. The mast is still standing and the bolt holes do not appear enlarged.
                                >
                                > My first thought is drill a few more holes and once the water stops dripping out pump it full of Rot Doctor let it cure then fill it up with Gflex.
                                >
                                > I am nut sure if that is the wisest thing to do since this piece helps to hold up the mast.
                                >
                                > Any thoughts would be great.
                                >
                                >
                                > Kevin
                                > Veritas
                                > Currently at Cobb's in Litlle Creek VA
                                > 1986 S 30 Mk III
                                >
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