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Re: [SabreSailboat] Messenger line for new wind transducer

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  • Mike Merriman
    I just installed a new garmin wind instrument and had the same issue with the cable. I cut the old one flush, pushed it in the hole, then ran a electrician s
    Message 1 of 10 , May 14, 2013
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      I just installed a new garmin wind instrument and had the same issue with the cable.  I cut the old one flush, pushed it in the hole, then ran a electrician's snake down the mast - attached a messenger to it, pulled it through, attached the cable to it and pulled it down.  Installed a dollop on 4200 on the cable hole.  took me maybe 20 min more than if I had the messenger line, and did it singlehanded.
      mast was down - would have been longer otherwise, but still doable.
       
       
       
      Mike Merriman
       
      On 05/14/13, JohnF<jl_folk@...> wrote:
       
       

      I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:

      - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?

      - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?

      - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?

      Thanks -

    • sailor11767
      You hit on a big issue for me. My mast is down as part of my cabin sole replacement. I d like to some day have instruments. Even with the mast down, running
      Message 2 of 10 , May 14, 2013
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        You hit on a big issue for me. My mast is down as part of my cabin sole replacement. I'd like to some day have instruments. Even with the mast down, running the cable is not trivial -- unless you tie it off somehow, it will flop around in the mast at night and has potential for significant chafe on halyards. I think the only workable answer is to pull all the wires out of the mast, run a conduit up that slotted track, and then run new wires (including instruments) up the conduit.

        As I pare down the to do list in an effort to keep the refit under 30 months (currently at 17 months), instruments are below the cut. And, yes, that means permanently, as the mast isn't going to come out again any time soon.

        Harry



        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "JohnF" <jl_folk@...> wrote:
        >
        > I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:
        >
        > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?
        >
        > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
        >
        > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?
        >
        >
        > Thanks -
        >
      • Barend Brink
        Harry is correct, I also don t know of a way to do this without taking the mast down. I have a 34 II with a Hall Spar mast. I took my mast down 3 years ago to
        Message 3 of 10 , May 14, 2013
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          Harry is correct, I also don't know of a way to do this without taking the mast down. 
           
          I have a 34 II with a Hall Spar mast.  I took my mast down 3 years ago to re-finish it.  There is a conduit in the inside of the mast.  Wires are taped together and run down the inside of the conduit.  You have to take the mast down, take the mast cap off and then pull the conduit with all the wires out.  If you do this, I would recommend replacing all the wires (electrical and VHF) while you are at it.
           
          You could consider Tac Tic for the wind instrument if you don't have plans to take down the mast any time soon.
           
          Regards
          //Barend (Yen Shon, 1989 S34II #376)
           
           
           

          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          From: sailor11767@...
          Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 22:27:10 +0000
          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Messenger line for new wind transducer

           
          You hit on a big issue for me. My mast is down as part of my cabin sole replacement. I'd like to some day have instruments. Even with the mast down, running the cable is not trivial -- unless you tie it off somehow, it will flop around in the mast at night and has potential for significant chafe on halyards. I think the only workable answer is to pull all the wires out of the mast, run a conduit up that slotted track, and then run new wires (including instruments) up the conduit.

          As I pare down the to do list in an effort to keep the refit under 30 months (currently at 17 months), instruments are below the cut. And, yes, that means permanently, as the mast isn't going to come out again any time soon.

          Harry

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "JohnF" <jl_folk@...> wrote:
          >
          > I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:
          >
          > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?
          >
          > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
          >
          > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?
          >
          >
          > Thanks -
          >


        • Barend Brink
          This is very inspiring Mike, I may try the same. Previously when I had the mast down, it did not seem that I had much of an option, except for taking the
          Message 4 of 10 , May 14, 2013
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            This is very inspiring Mike, I may try the same.  Previously when I had the mast down, it did not seem that I had much of an option, except for taking the conduit out.
             
            Thanks for the post,
            //Barend
             

            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            From: mike.merriman1@...
            Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:21:33 -0500
            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Messenger line for new wind transducer

             
            I just installed a new garmin wind instrument and had the same issue with the cable.  I cut the old one flush, pushed it in the hole, then ran a electrician's snake down the mast - attached a messenger to it, pulled it through, attached the cable to it and pulled it down.  Installed a dollop on 4200 on the cable hole.  took me maybe 20 min more than if I had the messenger line, and did it singlehanded.
            mast was down - would have been longer otherwise, but still doable.
             
             
             
            Mike Merriman
             
            On 05/14/13, JohnF<jl_folk@...> wrote:
             
             

            I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:

            - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?

            - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?

            - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?

            Thanks -



          • sailor11767
            Of note, my 79 34-I, #063, was one of the few built with a Schaeffer mast. Not sure if it was a re-brand of Hall, but it s labeled Schaeffer. Harry
            Message 5 of 10 , May 14, 2013
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              Of note, my '79 34-I, #063, was one of the few built with a Schaeffer mast. Not sure if it was a re-brand of Hall, but it's labeled Schaeffer.

              Harry

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barend Brink <barendb@...> wrote:
              >
              > This is very inspiring Mike, I may try the same. Previously when I had the mast down, it did not seem that I had much of an option, except for taking the conduit out.
              >
              > Thanks for the post,
              > //Barend
              >
              > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              > From: mike.merriman1@...
              > Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:21:33 -0500
              > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Messenger line for new wind transducer
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              > I just installed a new garmin wind instrument and had the same issue with the cable. I cut the old one flush, pushed it in the hole, then ran a electrician's snake down the mast - attached a messenger to it, pulled it through, attached the cable to it and pulled it down. Installed a dollop on 4200 on the cable hole. took me maybe 20 min more than if I had the messenger line, and did it singlehanded.mast was down - would have been longer otherwise, but still doable. Mike Merriman On 05/14/13, JohnF<jl_folk@...> wrote: I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:
              >
              > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?
              >
              > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
              >
              > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?
              >
              > Thanks -
              >
            • sabre32sailor
              a wireless system like tic tac might fit your needs. If you run them, be sure to protect them. I have a rigger doing a complete tear out and rewire of my mast
              Message 6 of 10 , May 15, 2013
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                a wireless system like tic tac might fit your needs.
                 
                If you run them, be sure to protect them.
                 
                I have a rigger doing a complete tear out and rewire of my mast right now.
                Should be done by Friday.
                Sometimes, writing a check is good..
                 
                john
                 
                Sent from Windows Mail
                 
                From: sailor11767
                Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎May‎ ‎14‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎27‎ ‎PM
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                 
                 

                You hit on a big issue for me. My mast is down as part of my cabin sole replacement. I'd like to some day have instruments. Even with the mast down, running the cable is not trivial -- unless you tie it off somehow, it will flop around in the mast at night and has potential for significant chafe on halyards. I think the only workable answer is to pull all the wires out of the mast, run a conduit up that slotted track, and then run new wires (including instruments) up the conduit.

                As I pare down the to do list in an effort to keep the refit under 30 months (currently at 17 months), instruments are below the cut. And, yes, that means permanently, as the mast isn't going to come out again any time soon.

                Harry

                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "JohnF" <jl_folk@...> wrote:
                >
                > I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:
                >
                > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?
                >
                > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
                >
                > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?
                >
                >
                > Thanks -
                >

              • JOHN CALLIS
                It seems unlikely that the wire is pinched. I have an S34 and have replaced mine, and have photos of the inside of the mast that I will attach. My transducer
                Message 7 of 10 , May 15, 2013
                It seems unlikely that the wire is pinched.  I have an S34 and have replaced mine, and have photos of the inside of the mast that I will attach.

                My transducer wire and VHF and mast head light wire where not attached, but ran through a conduit, and just after the conduit and about 6 inches from the top of the mast they were wire tied to an eye strap.  My mast was out of the boat and replacement was super easy.  I would say that there is almost no access with the mast head installed, and it is not easy to remove the masthead with the mast up as the fore and backstay are attached directly to it.

                you can see the eye strap in one of the picture, but the wire tie has been removed.  I believe the wire tie is necessary to support the weight of the wire.  You can see that the wire then passes up through the masthead through a small hole.  I think that if you ran the wire outside of the conduit, that your main halyard would chafe it and it may fail in a few years.

                It might be cheaper to pull the mast and install the transducer yourself then to pay the yard to run it with the mast up.

                Hope this helps
                John
                S34 MKII


                On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:17 PM, JohnF wrote:

                   I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna.  In addition,  the bundle is "pinched under the mast head".    Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast.   That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter.  A couple of questions:

                - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?

                - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself?  I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight.  Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?

                - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?

                Thanks -


              • JohnF
                John - Thanks very much for the pics. It sounds like I m getting accurate feedback from the yard and others on this board that the mast will have to come
                Message 8 of 10 , May 15, 2013
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                  John -

                  Thanks very much for the pics. It sounds like I'm getting accurate feedback from the yard and others on this board that the mast will have to come down. Maybe we'll do it in August when the marina is hungry for work. Guess I will sail without wind instruments for awhile. Oh well, growing up my Laser didn't have wind instruments, AIS, and a chartplotter so I guess I will survive. At least I've got a Windex at the top.


                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, JOHN CALLIS <jsts@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > It seems unlikely that the wire is pinched. I have an S34 and have
                  > replaced mine, and have photos of the inside of the mast that I will
                  > attach.
                  >
                  > My transducer wire and VHF and mast head light wire where not attached,
                  > but ran through a conduit, and just after the conduit and about 6 inches
                  > from the top of the mast they were wire tied to an eye strap. My mast
                  > was out of the boat and replacement was super easy. I would say that
                  > there is almost no access with the mast head installed, and it is not
                  > easy to remove the masthead with the mast up as the fore and backstay
                  > are attached directly to it.
                  >
                  > you can see the eye strap in one of the picture, but the wire tie has
                  > been removed. I believe the wire tie is necessary to support the weight
                  > of the wire. You can see that the wire then passes up through the
                  > masthead through a small hole. I think that if you ran the wire outside
                  > of the conduit, that your main halyard would chafe it and it may fail in
                  > a few years.
                  >
                  > It might be cheaper to pull the mast and install the transducer yourself
                  > then to pay the yard to run it with the mast up.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps
                  > John
                  > S34 MKII
                  >
                  > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:17 PM, JohnF wrote:
                  >
                  > I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head.
                  > They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work
                  > because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to
                  > the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched
                  > under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as
                  > a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time
                  > we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the
                  > finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself
                  > over the winter. A couple of questions:
                  >
                  > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier
                  > work order?
                  >
                  > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about
                  > a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a
                  > weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
                  >
                  > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might
                  > help me understand the issue?
                  >
                  > Thanks -
                  >
                  >
                  > <javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com')>
                  >
                • Phil
                  I also installed a new wind vane & used a snake. Mast was down, only took a few minutes. Phil Horn S34 #67
                  Message 9 of 10 , May 17, 2013
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                    I also installed a new wind vane & used a snake. Mast was down,
                    only took a few minutes.

                    Phil Horn
                    S34 #67

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Barend Brink <barendb@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This is very inspiring Mike, I may try the same. Previously when I had the mast down, it did not seem that I had much of an option, except for taking the conduit out.
                    >
                    > Thanks for the post,
                    > //Barend
                    >
                    > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: mike.merriman1@...
                    > Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:21:33 -0500
                    > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Messenger line for new wind transducer
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                    > I just installed a new garmin wind instrument and had the same issue with the cable. I cut the old one flush, pushed it in the hole, then ran a electrician's snake down the mast - attached a messenger to it, pulled it through, attached the cable to it and pulled it down. Installed a dollop on 4200 on the cable hole. took me maybe 20 min more than if I had the messenger line, and did it singlehanded.mast was down - would have been longer otherwise, but still doable. Mike Merriman On 05/14/13, JohnF<jl_folk@...> wrote: I asked the yard to install my new wind transducer at the mast head. They scoped it out and called to report they unable to complete the work because there is no messenger. The existing Datamarine cable is taped to the Coax for the VHF antenna. In addition, the bundle is "pinched under the mast head". Since they could not use the existing cable as a messenger, they suggested that we defer the work until the next time we pull the mast. That's a bad answer because this transducer is the finishing touch of a complete electronics overhaul I completed myself over the winter. A couple of questions:
                    >
                    > - Are they telling me the truth or just looking to move on to an easier work order?
                    >
                    > - Any guidance if I elect to try to tackle this myself? I've read about a trick where you connect a messenger to a length of bicycle chain as a weight. Will that work on our particular mast (S34 MK II)?
                    >
                    > - Does anyone have pictures of a Hall Spars S34 mast head that might help me understand the issue?
                    >
                    > Thanks -
                    >
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