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Re: [SabreSailboat] Window/port removal

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  • David Lochner
    Barry, Since I m in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions. On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 30, 2006
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      Barry,

      Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

      On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

      Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

      The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

      After trial and error, I developed this system.

      First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

      To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

      When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

      I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

      According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

      Good Luck.

      Dave

      Identity Crisis

      S30 #52

      Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario


      On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


      I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
       
      Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
       
      And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
       
      Thanks,
       
       
      Barry Wilson
      S28 II 400
      Slipstream
       


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    • john kalinowski
      Dave The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3 blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 1, 2006
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        Dave
         
         The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
         
        Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
         
        I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
         
        Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
         
        john

        David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
        Barry,

        Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

        On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

        Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

        The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

        After trial and error, I developed this system.

        First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

        To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

        When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

        I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

        According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

        Good Luck.

        Dave
        Identity Crisis
        S30 #52
        Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

        On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


        I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
         
        Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
         
        And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
         
        Thanks,
         
         
        Barry Wilson
        S28 II 400
        Slipstream
         


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      • David Lochner
        John, Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan...... On my ports, the outside
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 1, 2006
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          John,

          Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan......

          On my ports, the outside bead of the vinyl channel glazing was cut off and a bead of silicone caulk was used instead. The silicone should give a better seal as it will adhere to both the frame and the glass.

          I'm not sure how structurally important the foam is. It mostly appears to be filler between the cabin liner and the out side of the cabin.

          Dave


          On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:01 AM, john kalinowski wrote:


          Dave
           
           The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
           
          Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
           
          I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
           
          Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
           
          john

          David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
          Barry,

          Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

          On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

          Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

          The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

          After trial and error, I developed this system.

          First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

          To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

          When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

          I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

          According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

          Good Luck.

          Dave
          Identi! ty Crisis
          S30 #52
          Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

          On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


          I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
           
          Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
           
          And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
           
          Thanks,
           
           
          Barry Wilson
          S28 II 400
          Slipstream
           


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        • Greg Allen
          Dave, I just replaced the 3/16 Lexan portlight over the Nav station with 1/4 safety glass and the local boatyard portlight guru suggested GE Silicon II to
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 2, 2006
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            Dave,

            I just replaced the 3/16 Lexan portlight over the Nav station with 1/4 safety glass and the local boatyard portlight guru suggested GE Silicon II to rebed the glass and life caulk to rebed the frame.   

            It's amazing how much clear, clean glass adds to a boat.

            Greg
            On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:52 AM, David Lochner wrote:

            John,

            Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan......

            On my ports, the outside bead of the vinyl channel glazing was cut off and a bead of silicone caulk was used instead. The silicone should give a better seal as it will adhere to both the frame and the glass.

            I'm not sure how structurally important the foam is. It mostly appears to be filler between the cabin liner and the out side of the cabin.

            Dave


            On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:01 AM, john kalinowski wrote:


            Dave
             
             The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
             
            Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
             
            I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
             
            Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
             
            john

            David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
            Barry,

            Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

            On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

            Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

            The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

            After trial and error, I developed this system.

            First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

            To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

            When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

            I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

            According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

            Good Luck.

            Dave
            Identi! ty Crisis
            S30 #52
            Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

            On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


            I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
             
            Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
             
            And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
             
            Thanks,
             
             
            Barry Wilson
            S28 II 400
            Slipstream
             


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            Greg Allen
            781-639-4688


          • David Lochner
            Greg, All my portlights are 1/8 safety glass. The clear lighting is much preferred over crazed and hazy plastic. I used the GE Silpruf to rebed the frames.
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 3, 2006
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              Greg,

              All my portlights are 1/8" safety glass. The clear lighting is much preferred over crazed and hazy plastic.

              I used the GE Silpruf to rebed the frames. Silpruf is interesting stuff. It has a much thicker consistency than the usual silicones that I've used and is definitely neater and easier to use than LifeCaulk. I'll have to go sailing to see if they leak.

              Dave


              On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:13 AM, Greg Allen wrote:

              Dave,


              I just replaced the 3/16 Lexan portlight over the Nav station with 1/4 safety glass and the local boatyard portlight guru suggested GE Silicon II to rebed the glass and life caulk to rebed the frame.   

              It's amazing how much clear, clean glass adds to a boat.

              Greg
              On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:52 AM, David Lochner wrote:

              John,

              Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan......

              On my ports, the outside bead of the vinyl channel glazing was cut off and a bead of silicone caulk was used instead. The silicone should give a better seal as it will adhere to both the frame and the glass.

              I'm not sure how structurally important the foam is. It mostly appears to be filler between the cabin liner and the out side of the cabin.

              Dave


              On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:01 AM, john kalinowski wrote:


              Dave
               
               The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
               
              Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
               
              I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
               
              Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
               
              john

              David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
              Barry,

              Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

              On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

              Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

              The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

              After trial and error, I developed this system.

              First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

              To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

              When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

              I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

              According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

              Good Luck.

              Dave
              Identi! ty Crisis
              S30 #52
              Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

              On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


              I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
               
              Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
               
              And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
               
              Thanks,
               
               
              Barry Wilson
              S28 II 400
              Slipstream
               


              Do you Yahoo!?
              Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.





              Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.



              Greg Allen
              781-639-4688




            • Barry Wilson
              David, I took one window out today and disassembeled it. Your instructions were invaluable. John, Your idea of dry fitting and outlining in blue tape are spot
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 9, 2006
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                David,
                I took one window out today and disassembeled it.  Your instructions were invaluable. 
                 
                John,
                Your idea of dry fitting and outlining in blue tape are spot on too.
                 
                Thanks to both of you for taking the time to document.
                 
                Barry


                David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                John,

                Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan......

                On my ports, the outside bead of the vinyl channel glazing was cut off and a bead of silicone caulk was used instead. The silicone should give a better seal as it will adhere to both the frame and the glass.

                I'm not sure how structurally important the foam is. It mostly appears to be filler between the cabin liner and the out side of the cabin.

                Dave


                On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:01 AM, john kalinowski wrote:


                Dave
                 
                 The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
                 
                Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
                 
                I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
                 
                Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
                 
                john

                David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                Barry,

                Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

                On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

                Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

                The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

                After trial and error, I developed this system.

                First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

                To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

                When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

                I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

                According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

                Good Luck.

                Dave
                Identi! ty Crisis
                S30 #52
                Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

                On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


                I discovered a soft spot in the core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
                 
                Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
                 
                And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
                 
                Thanks,
                 
                 
                Barry Wilson
                S28 II 400
                Slipstream
                 


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              • David Lochner
                Barry, Thanks, no use reinventing the wheel! I can t remember if I followed up on the reinstallation. The Silpruf is not as gooey as most silicone caulks and
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 10, 2006
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                  Barry,

                  Thanks, no use reinventing the wheel!

                  I can't remember if I followed up on the reinstallation. 

                  The Silpruf is not as gooey as most silicone caulks and was easy to work with. Certainly easier than Polysulfide. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the glazing bead of caulk applied as neatly as Sabre applied the original. I'll probably dig it out and try again. The 3M Marine Silicone caulk was easier to work with than the Boatlife Silicone, and the results show it.

                  Dave


                  On Jul 9, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


                  David,
                  I took one window out today and disassembeled it.  Your instructions were invaluable. 
                   
                  John,
                  Your idea of dry fitting and outlining in blue tape are spot on too.
                   
                  Thanks to both of you for taking the time to document.
                   
                  Barry


                  David Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                  John,

                  Thanks for the tip. That was basically my plan. Of course, now you have me thinking that using 4200 might be a better plan......

                  On my ports, the outside bead of the vinyl channel glazing was cut off and a bead of silicone caulk was used instead. The silicone should give a better seal as it will adhere to both the frame and the glass.

                  I'm not sure how structurally important the foam is. It mostly appears to be filler between the cabin liner and the out side of the cabin.

                  Dave


                  On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:01 AM, john kalinowski wrote:


                  Dave
                   
                   The trick on reinstallation is to dry fit the window, then put down an outline in 3M 3" blue masking tape. If need be, put it below the frame, and then cut around the corners with a utility knife.
                   
                  Remove the frame, wipe area with acetone, bed it (I used 4200) and install. You should get a bit of oozing all around.  After an hour or when the 4200 has skinned, you can remove the tape and have a clean install.
                   
                  I found the only leak I got was the channel glazing and not the frame to the cabin.
                   
                  Barry, not sure of the 28, but on my 32, it is foam between the inner and out skins. They have a tendency to crack and fall away.  If that is your problem, cut a piece of stiff styrofoam to put in there.'
                   
                  john

                  David Lochner <davelochne! r@...> wrote:
                  Barry,

                  Since I'm in the middle of a similar project on my S30. Let me try to answer your questions.

                  On the Sabre Yachts website, there is a drawing of how the window is bedded and instructions for rebedding the port. This would be a good place to start.

                  Removal is relatively straightforward. Remove the inside trim piece, break the seal around the port on the outside and use a wide putty knife and other devices to push the window and frame out. I used 2 putty knives one on the outside with a helper and one inside with a rubber mallet. I put the putty knife in the gap between the side of the cabin and the window frame and gently tapped the putty knife. I continued around the frame until the window popped out. Taking the window apart is straightforward.

                  The most challenging part is removing all the old caulk. Sabre used GE Silpruf which is an adhesive silicone caulk that is used to hold plate glass windows in their frames. It is tenacious stuff. You'll have to order it from somewhere, I ordered mine through the local Fastenal store. 

                  After trial and error, I developed this system.

                  First make a tool. I found a scrap piece of oak corner molding that I trimmed down to fit the channel. Then, with the frame clamped in a vise, gently heat the caulk with a heat gun, the caulk will soften and you can either trim most of it off with a razor knife or use your homemade caulk removing tool to get most of the caulk off. Then cover the remaining caulk with a liberal dose of Dap Caulk Remover (about $3.50 at Lowe's), ignore the warning to not leave it on for more than 6 hours. Let it sit over night in a cool place (my basement worked well) so it doesn't dry out too much. Then use your homemade caulk removing tool to scrape, rub, and peel off the old caulk. You will probably need to do this a couple of time to get the worst of it off. Not a difficult job, but it can be tedious and good opportunity to practice patience.

                  To reassemble, you'll want to replace the vinyl glazing strip. There is only one source that I could find and they won't sell directly to you. You'll need to get a glass shop to order you a roll. The product is:  http://www.crlaurence.com/ProductPages/D/D753M_11746.html?Origin=#MoreDetails Again, its pretty easy to reassemble the window.

                  When I talked to the guy at the auto glass shop, he suggested that the butyl tape that the sabre drawing shows is unnecessary. The silpruf should be enough to get a good seal.

                  I'll know by this time tomorrow how easy they are to reinstall.

                  According to my S30 manual, the S30 and S28s have mahogany plywood under the stanchion bases.

                  Good Luck.

                  Dave
                  Identi! ty Crisis
                  S30 #52
                  Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

                  !
                  On Jun 30, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Barry Wilson wrote:


                  I discovered a soft spot in t! he core below the window/port over the galley of my S28.  I think I know the challenges of repairing the core.  However, how easy is it to remove and replace the window?  What challenges will have I have getting the window back in and sealed properly?  Once removed, must I proceed to the final repair, or can the window be replaced as part of an exploratory adventure?
                   
                  Assuming I can dig out the rotten core, didn't I read of a chemical of some sort that can be used to bolster core that isn't rotten but may have been damp at one point. 
                   
                  And one final question.  In anticipation of some rebedding tasks, does anyone know if all the stanchions are through solid glass on the S28, or are some through wood cored deck?
                   
                  Thanks,
                   
                   
                  Barry Wilson
                  S28 II 400
                  Slipstream
                   


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                • gonesalng
                  Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20 years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And almost going over to
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 7, 2006
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                    Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                    years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                    almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                    following

                    1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                    Hull No 27
                    Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA

                    New Name Eureka!

                    Will be kept in Salem, MA

                    John & Gail Dionne
                    Beverly, MA
                  • mike.merriman@comcast.net
                    I have a 1984 same model - hull #15 named Finesse - also on a mooring in Salem Harbor. Let me know if you re interested in connecting. Mike Merriman and Janet
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 7, 2006
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                      I have a 1984 same model - hull #15 named Finesse - also on a mooring in Salem Harbor.  Let me know if you're interested in connecting.
                       
                      Mike Merriman and Janet Gottschalk
                      previously of Beverly - just moved to Boxford.
                       
                      -------------- Original message --------------
                      From: "gonesalng" <gonesalng@...>

                      Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                      years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                      almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                      following

                      1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                      Hull No 27
                      Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA

                      New Name Eureka!

                      Will be kept in Salem, MA

                      John & Gail Dionne
                      Beverly, MA

                    • john kalinowski
                      Congratulations John. Hope to be completing against you in the future. Been a couple years. Gee, If we can get Mike and you, plus turn up 2 more Sabre 32s in
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 7, 2006
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                        Congratulations John. Hope to be completing against you in the future.  Been a couple years.
                         
                        Gee, If we can get Mike and you, plus turn up 2 more Sabre 32s in the area, we can have our own class on Thursday Night racing. A true "cruising" class.
                         
                         I have already started needling the J-24 boys  we are going to push their start time out 5 minutes once I get enough S-32s for our own line...  :>)
                         
                        Regards
                         
                         john

                        mike.merriman@... wrote:
                        I have a 1984 same model - hull #15 named Finesse - also on a mooring in Salem Harbor.  Let me know if you're interested in connecting.
                         
                        Mike Merriman and Janet Gottschalk
                        previously of Beverly - just moved to Boxford.
                         
                        ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                        From: "gonesalng" <gonesalng@yahoo. com>
                        Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                        years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                        almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                        following

                        1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                        Hull No 27
                        Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA

                        New Name Eureka!

                        Will be kept in Salem, MA

                        John & Gail Dionne
                        Beverly, MA



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                      • mike.merriman@comcast.net
                        I m not going up against someone that races all the time ;-) ... From: john kalinowski Congratulations John. Hope to be completing
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 7, 2006
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                          I'm not going up against someone that races all the time ;-)
                           
                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          From: john kalinowski <sabre32sailor@...>

                          Congratulations John. Hope to be completing against you in the future.  Been a couple years.
                           
                          Gee, If we can get Mike and you, plus turn up 2 more Sabre 32s in the area, we can have our own class on Thursday Night racing. A true "cruising" class.
                           
                           I have already started needling the J-24 boys  we are going to push their start time out 5 minutes once I get enough S-32s for our own line...  :>)
                           
                          Regards
                           
                           john

                          mike.merriman@ comcast.net wrote:
                          I have a 1984 same model - hull #15 named Finesse - also on a mooring in Salem Harbor.  Let me know if you're interested in connecting.
                           
                          Mike Merriman and Janet Gottschalk
                          previously of Beverly - just moved to Boxford.
                           
                          ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                          From: "gonesalng" <gonesalng@yahoo. com>
                          Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                          years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                          almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                          following

                          1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                          Hull No 27
                          Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA

                          New Name Eureka!

                          Will be kept in Salem, MA

                          John & Gail Dionne
                          Beverly, MA

                           


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                          Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                        • Eric
                          Congratulations and Welcome!! Eric Sabre 30 #36 Spirit West River, MD http://spirit.the-millers.org
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 7, 2006
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                            Congratulations and Welcome!!

                            Eric
                            Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                            West River, MD
                            http://spirit.the-millers.org


                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "gonesalng" <gonesalng@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                            > years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                            > almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                            > following
                            >
                            > 1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                            > Hull No 27
                            > Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA
                            >
                            > New Name Eureka!
                            >
                            > Will be kept in Salem, MA
                            >
                            > John & Gail Dionne
                            > Beverly, MA
                            >
                          • Bill Blalock
                            Welcome aboard! The aft cabin models are Grrrrreat! Bill B S38mk1 #88 aft cabin Surfer Girl ... From: gonesalng To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 8, 2006
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                              Welcome aboard!  The aft cabin models are Grrrrreat!
                              Bill B
                              S38mk1 #88 aft cabin "Surfer Girl"
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: gonesalng
                              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:39 AM
                              Subject: [SabreSailboat] New Owner

                              Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                              years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                              almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                              following

                              1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                              Hull No 27
                              Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA

                              New Name Eureka!

                              Will be kept in Salem, MA

                              John & Gail Dionne
                              Beverly, MA

                            • home2
                              See you out on the water - this weekend looks like a good one - we are moored in Salem outside near the channel. We are one of 3 362 s that I know of in Salem.
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 9, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                See you out on the water - this weekend looks like a good one -
                                we are moored in Salem outside near the channel. We are one of
                                3 362's that I know of in Salem.

                                --Neil and Sue
                                Whisper
                                S362-266

                                On Aug 7, 2006, at 9:39 AM, gonesalng wrote:

                                > Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                                > years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                                > almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                                > following
                                >
                                > 1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                                > Hull No 27
                                > Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA
                                >
                                > New Name Eureka!
                                >
                                > Will be kept in Salem, MA
                                >
                                > John & Gail Dionne
                                > Beverly, MA
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                Neil Russell
                                10 Jordan Terrace
                                Wakefield MA 01880
                              • John Kalinowski
                                I just got an e-mail for John Devine at Palmer Cove YC that John Dionne passed away from a heart attack last night. He had been at the club earlier in the
                                Message 15 of 27 , Sep 18 12:19 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I just got an e-mail for John Devine at Palmer Cove YC that John Dionne
                                  passed away from a heart attack last night. He had been at the club
                                  earlier in the evening and showed no apparent stress.

                                  I raced against John & Gail for many years in my p-26 against their C&C
                                  25 on Thursday evenings. He was so proud when he bought his S-32 and
                                  brought it to Salem. Will miss his calm temperment, and gracious smile
                                  no matter what the environment. A class guy all around.

                                  No word on arrangements yet.

                                  Fair winds on your new journey John.
                                  May you rest in peace.


                                  john k.



                                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "gonesalng" <gonesalng@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Over the winter we sold our C&C 25. Which we had owned for almost 20
                                  > years. And after 5 months of searching from Maine to New York (And
                                  > almost going over to the "Dark Side") We finally purchased the
                                  > following
                                  >
                                  > 1985 Sabre 32 Aftcabin
                                  > Hull No 27
                                  > Was named Messing About and sailed out of Marion, MA
                                  >
                                  > New Name Eureka!
                                  >
                                  > Will be kept in Salem, MA
                                  >
                                  > John & Gail Dionne
                                  > Beverly, MA
                                  >
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