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Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup

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  • Jim Starkey
    What nonsense! They ve already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat. The crew doesn t wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 21 9:09 AM
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      What nonsense!  They've already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat.  The crew doesn't wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for nothing.

      Oh, well.  The world's economy does need someway to recycled Larry Ellison's money.  But I do miss the 12s.

      On 3/21/13 11:30 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
       

      Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders)  but it sure looks freaky to me!


      Allison





      On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Carter Brey wrote:

       

      Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

      On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
       

      Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

      Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

      joe




    • Allison Lehman
      Not sure if the first boat foiled. It came out to practice in the fall (traditionally lighter breeze in SF Bay). What I do know is it wasn t foiling when it
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 21 9:28 AM
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        Not sure if the first boat foiled.  It came out to practice  in the fall (traditionally lighter breeze in SF Bay). What I do know is it wasn't foiling when it pitchpoled.  They were falling off into a reach with a wicked ebb tide and 20+ knots of breeze. As they started reaching, they exceeded wind speed, both hulls were in the water and thats when the leeward bow dug in and they pitchpoled. 

        Some camps called the incident a publicity stunt, but what they all agree on is nobody figured how hard it would be to right the boat.  That is why it got swept out the gate and it took forever to get it back upright.  In the process much of the wing broke up.

        Allison








        On Mar 21, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Jim Starkey wrote:

         

        What nonsense!  They've already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat.  The crew doesn't wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for nothing.

        Oh, well.  The world's economy does need someway to recycled Larry Ellison's money.  But I do miss the 12s.

        On 3/21/13 11:30 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
         

        Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders)  but it sure looks freaky to me!


        Allison





        On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Carter Brey wrote:

         

        Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

        On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
         

        Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

        Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

        joe






      • Charles Sidwa
        http://www.windrider.com/windrider_rave.aspx For the common man, with great courage! I use to have a WR17, great
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 21 9:32 AM
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          For the common man, with great courage!  I use to have a WR17, great fun boat, still would like a Rave.  Charlie
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:28 AM
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup

           

          Is this where it's headed? Not just hanging on one ama, but foils? That should make its way into cruising in short order. Amazing, but....


          On 3/21/2013 9:49 AM, Joe wrote:
           

          Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

          Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

          joe

          __._,_.__

        • john kalinowski
          Got that straight Carter Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 21 11:00 AM
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            Got that straight Carter

            Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.
            Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which can be slow motion, Pitch poles you go from x mph to zero and and are 
            launched into the water which feels more like concrete.

            The speeds these puppies move make this even worse.
            The bows are all wrong for positive flotation needed to stop pitch poles.

            I wish they had stayed with the 45 footers.  I just pray something does not happen near the course edges where the competitors could lose control and fly into the spectators.


            --- On Thu, 3/21/13, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:

            From: Carter Brey <carter.brey@...>
            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

             

            Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

            On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
             

            Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

            Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

            joe

          • Dave Lochner
            Our sport certainly needs some excitement to draw in a younger crowd, but, John s right we don t need NASCAR crashes into the stands. Dave
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 21 11:07 AM
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              Our sport certainly needs some excitement to draw in a younger crowd, but, John's right we don't need NASCAR crashes into the stands.

              Dave

              On Mar 21, 2013, at 2:00 PM, john kalinowski wrote:

               

              Got that straight Carter

              Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.
              Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which can be slow motion, Pitch poles you go from x mph to zero and and are 
              launched into the water which feels more like concrete.

              The speeds these puppies move make this even worse.
              The bows are all wrong for positive flotation needed to stop pitch poles.

              I wish they had stayed with the 45 footers.  I just pray something does not happen near the course edges where the competitors could lose control and fly into the spectators.


              --- On Thu, 3/21/13, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:

              From: Carter Brey <carter.brey@...>
              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup
              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

               

              Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

              On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
               

              Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

              Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

              joe


            • mookiesurfs
              That is a beautiful spectacle! The why who what where or trickle down are not important, a spectacle is a thing to behold. One of the nice things about money
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 22 6:55 AM
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                That is a beautiful spectacle! The why who what where or trickle down are not important, a spectacle is a thing to behold. One of the nice things about money is that if it's yours, you get to do what you want with it. 
                Bill B

                Sent from an elegant interface with limited functionality, while traveling 

                On Mar 21, 2013, at 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:

                 

                Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                joe

              • Jim Starkey
                From NYTimes: “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less
                Message 7 of 25 , May 9, 2013
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                  From NYTimes:


                  “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”

                  Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.



                • josrulz_2001
                  From The Telegraph: Olympic sailing champion Andrew Bart Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36. He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 10, 2013
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                    From The Telegraph: "Olympic sailing champion Andrew 'Bart' Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36." He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star class in both 2008 and 2012.

                    What a bummer.

                    I'm not going to condemn the AC72--I don't know enough about the design to do that, and I'm not a yacht designer anyway. And I can't speak for anyone else by myself, so I'll say it this way. While I want to watch an America's Cup that is exhilarating, I don't really want to watch one where there's a good chance people might die. And my sense is that other people might feel the same way, though I don't know for sure. Yes, I know sailboat racing can always be dangerous, but I think we're at another level here.

                    There's been a lot of talk about the Cup and how monohulls might be more fun to watch (tacking duels, etc.). But that's not my point one way or the other. I just think they need to get these boats figured out and quick--watching people die in sailing competition isn't really what I'm into.

                    -Jim
                    1984 Sabre 34, #207


                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From NYTimes:
                    >
                    >
                    > “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”
                    >
                    > Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.
                    >
                  • Allison Lehman
                    This is a very sad event. FYI this is not the first time an America s Cup sailor has died during training. the last time was in 1999. A Spanish sailor died.
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 10, 2013
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                      This is a very sad event.

                      FYI this is not the first time an America's Cup sailor has died during training.  the last time was in 1999.  A Spanish sailor died.  As of late the AC designs have been so "bleeding edge" to squeeze every last drop of speed out of them, IMHO this is the culprit.  Not the particular design, but the edict for the design. 

                      Just my opinion.

                      Allison




                      On May 10, 2013, at 6:48 AM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:

                       

                      From The Telegraph: "Olympic sailing champion Andrew 'Bart' Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36." He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star class in both 2008 and 2012.

                      What a bummer.

                      I'm not going to condemn the AC72--I don't know enough about the design to do that, and I'm not a yacht designer anyway. And I can't speak for anyone else by myself, so I'll say it this way. While I want to watch an America's Cup that is exhilarating, I don't really want to watch one where there's a good chance people might die. And my sense is that other people might feel the same way, though I don't know for sure. Yes, I know sailboat racing can always be dangerous, but I think we're at another level here.

                      There's been a lot of talk about the Cup and how monohulls might be more fun to watch (tacking duels, etc.). But that's not my point one way or the other. I just think they need to get these boats figured out and quick--watching people die in sailing competition isn't really what I'm into.

                      -Jim
                      1984 Sabre 34, #207

                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From NYTimes:
                      >
                      >
                      > “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”
                      >
                      > Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.
                      >


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