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Rebed chainplates with mast up

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  • Sid
    Hi all: I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
      Hi all:

      I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

      My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

      I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

      Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

      Sid Wax
      S28-II #318
      Passing Fancy
    • Dave Lochner
      Sid, You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib,
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
        Sid,

        You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine. 

        Dave




        On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:

         

        Hi all:

        I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

        My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

        I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

        Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

        Sid Wax
        S28-II #318
        Passing Fancy


      • Sid
        I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that the uppers and rear lowers are connected to the same chainplate, so both have to be released at the
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
          I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that the uppers and rear lowers are connected to the same chainplate, so both have to be released at the same time, and the side of the mast would be supported on the halyards and stanchion bases (I don't have much faith in the forward lower to hold up the mast).

          I did plan to ease the shrouds on the opposite side a bit to relieve the side tension. Also, the intent is to do all this on the hard (with sails removed, of course).

          A thought was to tie halyards to the stanchion bases and then loosen the turnbuckles to see if I can get slack in the shrouds to test the load on the halyards before3 I release the shrouds.


          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sid,
          >
          > You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine.
          >
          > Dave
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
          >
          > > Hi all:
          > >
          > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.
          > >
          > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
          > >
          > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
          > >
          > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
          > >
          > > Sid Wax
          > > S28-II #318
          > > Passing Fancy
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Dave Lochner
          Sid, If you tie the main halyard to one side and the jib halyard to the other, you should be good. It doesn t take much pressure to keep an unloaded mast
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
            Sid,

            If you tie the main halyard to one side and the jib halyard to the other, you should be good. It doesn't take much pressure to keep an unloaded mast vertical. Shrouds can be sloppy loose and the rig will stay up until you raise a sail or some idiot sends a large wake your direction and you start rocking, but you're on the hard and won't have those problems.

            Dave


            On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

             

            Sid,


            You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine. 

            Dave




            On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:

             

            Hi all:

            I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

            My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

            I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

            Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

            Sid Wax
            S28-II #318
            Passing Fancy




          • Barry Wilson
            I agree with Dave. I have done this with the mast up.  Removal of the chainplate is the only way to get things really cleaned up.  There are plenty of
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
              I agree with Dave.
              I have done this with the mast up.  Removal of the chainplate is the only way to get things really cleaned up.  There are plenty of threads on cleaning out and what sealant to use. 
               
              The forward lower will hold it up provided no loads are imposed.  The halyards to the stanchion base is good to keep the mast, above the lower connection point, from wobbling around.  I don't know the halyards can hold much load up high without spreaders.  I tied the shrouds off at the stanchion base the first time.  But, I don't think the stanchion base is really designed to hold the load that shrouds impose when turnbuckles are tightened.  For the opposite side I simply tied them off to keep them from flailing about.  My boat sat like that overnight while the west systems set up.
               
              Barry Wilson
              Slipstream S28 #400

              From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Rebed chainplates with mast up
               
              Sid,

              You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine. 

              Dave



              On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
               
              Hi all:

              I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

              My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

              I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

              Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

              Sid Wax
              S28-II #318
              Passing Fancy

            • Barry Wilson
              I actually did one side at a time.  Taking the jib halyard to the stanchion forward of the chainplate and the main to the after stanchion.  My nervousness
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                I actually did one side at a time.  Taking the jib halyard to the stanchion forward of the chainplate and the main to the after stanchion.  My nervousness went away once I saw the mast was actually quite stable in this condition.  I was in the water so there was some back and forth as the boat rocked from me walking on it.

                Barry

                From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:43 PM
                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Rebed chainplates with mast up
                 
                Sid,

                If you tie the main halyard to one side and the jib halyard to the other, you should be good. It doesn't take much pressure to keep an unloaded mast vertical. Shrouds can be sloppy loose and the rig will stay up until you raise a sail or some idiot sends a large wake your direction and you start rocking, but you're on the hard and won't have those problems.

                Dave


                On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
                 
                Sid,

                You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine. 

                Dave



                On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                 
                Hi all:

                I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

                My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

                I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

                Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

                Sid Wax
                S28-II #318
                Passing Fancy



              • Alan Pressman
                Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*. FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.;
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                  Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward chainplate. He says to use 3m 5200.

                  FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas trip on my boat next month.  4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay.  He told me to keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust remover, inspection, etc.).

                  This time as part of an insurance survey  he told me to replace it.  I pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds and back stay.  My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack corrosion" my surveyor identified.

                  Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop.  They do lots of stainless and lots of chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot.  I asked him if it needs to be replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.

                  When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby wooden workbench and crack!  The plate fractured along the almost invisible crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!

                  The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new ones soon!

                  Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long.  And now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every three years.  The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I can easily do.  

                  Boat maintenance is fun.  Can't wait to start sailing again.

                  Alan
                  Windswept S 34 #430 
                  Sarasota, FL

                  On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid <xawdisney@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi all:

                  I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.

                  My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?

                  I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.

                  Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?

                  Sid Wax
                  S28-II #318
                  Passing Fancy





                • sailor11767
                  Sid, If the mast is essentially vertical, and you can pick your weather window (avoid hurricanes and nor easters), then the forward lowers are plenty. Think
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                    Sid,

                    If the mast is essentially vertical, and you can pick your weather window (avoid hurricanes and nor'easters), then the forward lowers are plenty. Think about this -- when your mast is pulled, the crane is supporting it at the mid point while it is horizontal, and the mast doesn't bend in two. When it is vertical, there is even less load. The mast is firmly supported at the step (on deck, I know) and the forward lowers keep the mid-point from moving left/right. It would take a lot of force to cause the mast to bend.

                    I used to race Chesapeake Bay Log Canoes. At the start of every day, we would take a 40' hollow wooden mast, and muscle it to a vertical position (very scary!). When it slipped home in the partners, it was 100% supported by the step (on the keel) and the partners (at deck level, 2' above the keel). No shrouds, no stays, nothing. We would get the shrouds on fairly quickly, and close a gate in the partners to keep it from falling back out, but a 40' tall wooden mast was supported by nothing above the deck. Your aluminum mast is stronger, and you have shrouds at the 50% point.

                    Ease the load on the backstay, take off the uppers and after lowers, rebed, and reinstall the same day. Done.

                    Harry
                    Analysis
                    '79 S34-I #063
                    Mill Creek, Annapolis

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Sid" <xawdisney@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that the uppers and rear lowers are connected to the same chainplate, so both have to be released at the same time, and the side of the mast would be supported on the halyards and stanchion bases (I don't have much faith in the forward lower to hold up the mast).
                    >
                    > I did plan to ease the shrouds on the opposite side a bit to relieve the side tension. Also, the intent is to do all this on the hard (with sails removed, of course).
                    >
                    > A thought was to tie halyards to the stanchion bases and then loosen the turnbuckles to see if I can get slack in the shrouds to test the load on the halyards before3 I release the shrouds.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Sid,
                    > >
                    > > You can remove the shrouds in pairs, i.e. both aft lowers, then uppers, then forward lowers. I would suggest that you reduce windage by removing the jib, main and boom and when you do the uppers do them on a calm day. Using a halyard as a temporary stay also works, just keep things balanced. So long as you are not putting loads on the mast when the stays are disconnected you should be fine.
                    > >
                    > > Dave
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Hi all:
                    > > >
                    > > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast). I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down, and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid structural damage to the bulkhead.
                    > > >
                    > > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this, and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                    > > >
                    > > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                    > > >
                    > > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                    > > >
                    > > > Sid Wax
                    > > > S28-II #318
                    > > > Passing Fancy
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • sailor11767
                    Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                      Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would be OK.

                      Harry

                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman <alanpressman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                      > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                      >
                      > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                      > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                      > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                      > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                      > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                      > remover, inspection, etc.).
                      >
                      > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                      > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                      > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                      > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                      > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                      > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                      >
                      > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                      > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                      > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                      > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                      >
                      > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                      > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                      > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                      > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                      >
                      > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                      > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                      > ones soon!
                      >
                      > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                      > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                      > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                      > can easily do.
                      >
                      > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                      >
                      > Alan
                      > Windswept S 34 #430
                      > Sarasota, FL
                      >
                      > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid <xawdisney@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi all:
                      > >
                      > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                      > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                      > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                      > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                      > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                      > >
                      > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                      > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                      > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                      > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                      > >
                      > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                      > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                      > >
                      > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                      > >
                      > > Sid Wax
                      > > S28-II #318
                      > > Passing Fancy
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Charles Sidwa
                      I m scratching my head as to why Glen would say to use 5200 on chainplates. Charlie ... From: sailor11767 To:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                        I'm scratching my head as to why Glen would say to use 5200 on chainplates.   Charlie
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 6:43 PM
                        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Rebed chainplates with mast up

                         

                        Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would be OK.

                        Harry

                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman wrote:
                        >
                        > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                        > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                        >
                        > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                        > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                        > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                        > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                        > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                        > remover, inspection, etc.).
                        >
                        > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                        > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                        > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                        > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                        > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                        > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                        >
                        > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                        > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                        > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                        > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                        >
                        > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                        > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                        > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                        > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                        >
                        > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                        > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                        > ones soon!
                        >
                        > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                        > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                        > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                        > can easily do.
                        >
                        > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                        >
                        > Alan
                        > Windswept S 34 #430
                        > Sarasota, FL
                        >
                        > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi all:
                        > >
                        > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                        > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                        > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                        > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                        > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                        > >
                        > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                        > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                        > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                        > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                        > >
                        > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                        > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                        > >
                        > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                        > >
                        > > Sid Wax
                        > > S28-II #318
                        > > Passing Fancy
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >

                      • Dave Lochner
                        Harry, That was my first reaction, no 5200. Then I realized that Alan was talking about the chainplate at the stem. and it began to make more sense. The forces
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                          Harry,

                          That was my first reaction, no 5200. Then I realized that Alan was talking about the chainplate at the stem. and it began to make more sense. The forces on the forestay chainplate are not the same as the other chainplates and the chainplate does not penetrate the deck. So using an adhesive/sealant to bond the chainplate to the stem and through bolting it made sense.

                          Parts adhered with 5200 can be separated using wedges and Marine Debond or one of those oscillating tools with a scraper blade. That is doable on the forestay chainplate, but not on the other chainplates.

                          Dave


                          On Mar 6, 2013, at 6:43 PM, sailor11767 wrote:

                           

                          Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would be OK.

                          Harry

                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman wrote:
                          >
                          > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                          > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                          >
                          > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                          > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                          > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                          > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                          > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                          > remover, inspection, etc.).
                          >
                          > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                          > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                          > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                          > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                          > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                          > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                          >
                          > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                          > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                          > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                          > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                          >
                          > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                          > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                          > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                          > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                          >
                          > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                          > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                          > ones soon!
                          >
                          > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                          > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                          > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                          > can easily do.
                          >
                          > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                          >
                          > Alan
                          > Windswept S 34 #430
                          > Sarasota, FL
                          >
                          > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi all:
                          > >
                          > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                          > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                          > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                          > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                          > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                          > >
                          > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                          > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                          > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                          > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                          > >
                          > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                          > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                          > >
                          > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                          > >
                          > > Sid Wax
                          > > S28-II #318
                          > > Passing Fancy
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >


                        • s36_osprey
                          Alan- amazing story regarding the cracked chain plate. Would you have any pictures? Thanks, Jim
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                            Alan- amazing story regarding the cracked chain plate. Would you have any pictures?

                            Thanks,
                            Jim

                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman <alanpressman@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                            > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                            >
                            > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                            > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                            > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                            > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                            > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                            > remover, inspection, etc.).
                            >
                            > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                            > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                            > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                            > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                            > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                            > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                            >
                            > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                            > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                            > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                            > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                            >
                            > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                            > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                            > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                            > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                            >
                            > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                            > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                            > ones soon!
                            >
                            > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                            > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                            > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                            > can easily do.
                            >
                            > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                            >
                            > Alan
                            > Windswept S 34 #430
                            > Sarasota, FL
                            >
                            > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid <xawdisney@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi all:
                            > >
                            > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                            > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                            > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                            > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                            > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                            > >
                            > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                            > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                            > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                            > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                            > >
                            > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                            > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                            > >
                            > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                            > >
                            > > Sid Wax
                            > > S28-II #318
                            > > Passing Fancy
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Scott
                            I ve got to echo Dave s thoughts here. I am in the camp that thinks 5200 is a poor choice for 99% of the uses some people use it for. This application might be
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                              I've got to echo Dave's thoughts here. I am in the camp that thinks 5200 is a poor choice for 99% of the uses some people use it for. This application might be one of those rare good uses. (I'd still be hesitant to use it).

                              With that said, I just hope no one reads Glen's recommendation and thinks it applies to any of the other chainplates! Using 5200 where the chainplates go thru the deck would be a disaster. 

                              Scott
                              After Midnight


                              Sent from my iPad

                              On Mar 6, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                               

                              Harry,


                              That was my first reaction, no 5200. Then I realized that Alan was talking about the chainplate at the stem. and it began to make more sense. The forces on the forestay chainplate are not the same as the other chainplates and the chainplate does not penetrate the deck. So using an adhesive/sealant to bond the chainplate to the stem and through bolting it made sense.

                              Parts adhered with 5200 can be separated using wedges and Marine Debond or one of those oscillating tools with a scraper blade. That is doable on the forestay chainplate, but not on the other chainplates.

                              Dave


                              On Mar 6, 2013, at 6:43 PM, sailor11767 wrote:

                               

                              Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would be OK.

                              Harry

                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman wrote:
                              >
                              > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                              > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                              >
                              > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                              > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                              > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                              > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                              > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                              > remover, inspection, etc.).
                              >
                              > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                              > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                              > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                              > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                              > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                              > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                              >
                              > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                              > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                              > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                              > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                              >
                              > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                              > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                              > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                              > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                              >
                              > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                              > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                              > ones soon!
                              >
                              > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                              > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                              > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                              > can easily do.
                              >
                              > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                              >
                              > Alan
                              > Windswept S 34 #430
                              > Sarasota, FL
                              >
                              > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi all:
                              > >
                              > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                              > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                              > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                              > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                              > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                              > >
                              > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                              > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                              > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                              > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                              > >
                              > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                              > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                              > >
                              > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                              > >
                              > > Sid Wax
                              > > S28-II #318
                              > > Passing Fancy
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >


                            • genkinyc
                              My chain plates were bedded by Brewers yard with 5200 - all of them. In fact when asking what they would use if they did the job again they replied 5200 Took
                              Message 14 of 14 , Mar 6, 2013
                                My chain plates were bedded by Brewers yard with 5200 - all of them.

                                In fact when asking what they would use if they did the job again they replied "5200"

                                Took me a while to get that devils glue cleaned up and now I've bedded the chainplates with Butyl from Mainsail.



                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Scott <targa387@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I've got to echo Dave's thoughts here. I am in the camp that thinks 5200 is a poor choice for 99% of the uses some people use it for. This application might be one of those rare good uses. (I'd still be hesitant to use it).
                                >
                                > With that said, I just hope no one reads Glen's recommendation and thinks it applies to any of the other chainplates! Using 5200 where the chainplates go thru the deck would be a disaster.
                                >
                                > Scott
                                > After Midnight
                                >
                                >
                                > Sent from my iPad
                                >
                                > On Mar 6, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Harry,
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > That was my first reaction, no 5200. Then I realized that Alan was talking about the chainplate at the stem. and it began to make more sense. The forces on the forestay chainplate are not the same as the other chainplates and the chainplate does not penetrate the deck. So using an adhesive/sealant to bond the chainplate to the stem and through bolting it made sense.
                                > >
                                > > Parts adhered with 5200 can be separated using wedges and Marine Debond or one of those oscillating tools with a scraper blade. That is doable on the forestay chainplate, but not on the other chainplates.
                                > >
                                > > Dave
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Mar 6, 2013, at 6:43 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>
                                > >> Glen is a great resource. But do NOT use 5200! Those chainplates will be in for ever if you do. I like butyl from MainSail, but LifeCaulk or even 4200 would be OK.
                                > >>
                                > >> Harry
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman wrote:
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Just exchanged email with Glen C at Sabre about bedding for my forward
                                > >> > chainplate. *He says to use 3m 5200*.
                                > >> >
                                > >> > FYI there is a need to inspect chainplates, etc.; I am getting new
                                > >> > insurance so I can be covered more than 125 miles from US for my Bahamas
                                > >> > trip on my boat next month. 4 yrs ago my surveyor pointed out a small bit
                                > >> > of rust on the forward chainplate attached to the forestay. He told me to
                                > >> > keep an eye on it, which I thought I had been doing (collinite rust
                                > >> > remover, inspection, etc.).
                                > >> >
                                > >> > This time as part of an insurance survey he told me to replace it. I
                                > >> > pulled it off (much easier than I thought once I got the tension off the
                                > >> > forestay-which was the time consuming part) by loosening lower aft shrouds
                                > >> > and back stay. My friend and I kept looking at the plate and could not
                                > >> > believe that it needs to be replaced nor could I see the "crevice crack
                                > >> > corrosion" my surveyor identified.
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Off to Gulfport to JTR machine shop. They do lots of stainless and lots of
                                > >> > chainplates in our area. I asked the owner if he could see any crack and in
                                > >> > about 2 seconds he pointed to the spot. I asked him if it needs to be
                                > >> > replaced and he says if it is older than 15 or 20 years old it should be.
                                > >> >
                                > >> > When I asked him if this particular bar of chainplate looked like an
                                > >> > imminent failure, he hit the chainplate--not all that hard- on a nearby
                                > >> > wooden workbench and crack! The plate fractured along the almost invisible
                                > >> > crack line about 3/4's of the way across the steel bar. I was floored!
                                > >> >
                                > >> > The surveyor says the other six shrouds and the backstay look good, but the
                                > >> > stainless guy says, not to worry, I'll be back to his place to make new
                                > >> > ones soon!
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Pretty amazing that I've been this lucky with this crack for so long. And
                                > >> > now I now why "they" say you should have a surveyor inspect your boat every
                                > >> > three years. The rest of the list is not too bad, with about 4 -5 items I
                                > >> > can easily do.
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Boat maintenance is fun. Can't wait to start sailing again.
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Alan
                                > >> > Windswept S 34 #430
                                > >> > Sarasota, FL
                                > >> >
                                > >> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Sid wrote:
                                > >> >
                                > >> > > **
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > Hi all:
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > I need to get my chainplates rebedded on my Sabre 28 (deck-stepped mast).
                                > >> > > I have been putting it off because I did not want to take the mast down,
                                > >> > > and was afraid to disconnect the shrouds with the mast up, but I am getting
                                > >> > > some water intrusion, so rebedding is drastically needed to avoid
                                > >> > > structural damage to the bulkhead.
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > My thought was to support the side of the mast with the halyards attached
                                > >> > > to the stanchion bases while I release the shrouds (and then maybe tying
                                > >> > > the shrouds down to the stanchion bases as well). Has anyone done this,
                                > >> > > and/or see any significant danger of things going wrong?
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > I do intend to leave the forward lower attached whil I do the main part of
                                > >> > > the work, but I can't see that that would hold much of the load.
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > Also, what is the currently recommended method for doing the bedding?
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > Sid Wax
                                > >> > > S28-II #318
                                > >> > > Passing Fancy
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > >
                                > >> >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
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