Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Need help on prospective purchase of 362 and Deck Crazing

Expand Messages
  • Jim Starkey
    A garboard plug is what you want.
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      A garboard plug is what you want.




      On Mar 3, 2013, at 1:24 PM, "navip11" <navip11@...> wrote:

       



      Ray,

      Thanks again for taking the time to post an answer.

      Your comments were helpful. After sleeping on it I think we are going to pass on this particular 362. The upkeep is a bit below what we are looking for and I really believe as a rather meticulous owner, the crazing on this boat would really bother me.

      Can you please give me a bit more information on how to keep water out of the bilge of a boat stored in the NE with the stick up over the winter?

      Thanks,

      AJ

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "rayjanine2002" wrote:
      >
      >
      > AJ,
      >
      > '
      >
      > Please see my comments below in BLUE.
      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "navip11" wrote:
      > >
      > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
      > "moving up."
      > >
      > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
      > >
      > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
      > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
      > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know
      > that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder
      > here
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/\
      > list . so interested parties could get a visual.
      > >
      > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
      > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
      > seeing "normal?" Yes and no concerning the crazing. Deep crazing will
      > lead to water intrusion into the balsa core deck. Most of the crazing
      > you will notice is right near the fasteners whether on the genoa tracks,
      > stantions, or around the plexiglass side windows (screws are near those
      > areas which hold the windows in place). It is important that the
      > surveyor does a moisture check of the deck to ensure it is only cosmetic
      > and not something more. The amount of crazing you have is more than I
      > have on my boat but it does not look too bad. I have a 1993 Sabre 362
      > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
      > future? It depends on what you buy it for and then what you want to
      > sell her for in the future. These boats hold their value so unless the
      > crazing is substantial causing high moisture readings on the deck, then
      > you should be ok for future sales.
      > >
      > > Some other questions:
      > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
      > of this size/weight? My boat came with an Autohelm 4000 which is a wheel
      > pilot. I recently replaced it with a below deck Raymarine SPX-10 with a
      > P70 controller in the cockpit, Type 1 Linear Drive Unit, and an SP100
      > wireless remote controller. Most folks on this site recommend a below
      > deck autopilot since our boats displacement are right on the edge for a
      > wheel pilot.>
      > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
      > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have
      > tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were
      > some cracks in the teak around the door catch. Does not sound too good.
      > Need to check how far out of alignment or warped the opening is. May be
      > a structural issue. Check other areas around the opening to see if the
      > bulkhead is cracked or damaged. The doors in our boats were installed
      > with the hinges on the outside of the door so that if you can do slight
      > adjustments of the hinge to door alignment to make the doors close
      > easier. This is only about 1/4" so if your jamming is more than that,
      > check the surrounding structure for issues.
      > >
      > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
      > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
      > replaced in the next 5yrs or so? I replaced both my standing and running
      > rigging including a new Harken Mark IV Unit 2 Roller Furler. Rather be
      > safe than sorry especially going in heavy seas and you never know for
      > sure when that may happen if you do any distant ocean sailing.
      > >
      > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
      > something I should consider as a future repair? Definitely. Use
      > Interlux 2000E approx. 4 coats and your good to go. Need to strip the
      > hull first though. Other members have done that and can offer excellent
      > advice on how to do it.
      > >
      > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
      > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
      > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with
      > pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the
      > additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there? I
      > installed a Lewmar V2 with Capstan. My controls are on the deck in the
      > front near the windlass and a second control in the cockpit. Our boats
      > are 14k displacement and picking up an 35 lb delta anchor with 20 ft of
      > chain and max of 200 ft of rode is way too much for me to handle.
      > >
      > >
      > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
      > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
      > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the
      > fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a
      > problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent
      > this? This is really not good. The water does freeze especially in the
      > north east and who knows what it has done to the floor beams and hoses
      > that run in the bilge. It also shows that the boat was really not cared
      > for too well. The water in the bilge will also cause mold and mildew to
      > form throughout the boat. Try to find out how long it was in the
      > bilge, how high it was, and check under the floor access panels to see
      > if mold is on them.
      > >
      > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
      > 362s? Check the engine mounts and PSS shaft seal to see if they need to
      > be replaced. I replace my entire prop shaft, cutlass bearings, PSS
      > shaft seal, and all four engine mounts. I may have gone a little to far
      > but I really don't want any extra problems to keep me from enjoying my
      > sailing season.
      > >
      > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
      > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
      > knowledge before we consider that.
      > >
      > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > >
      > > AJ
      >
      >
      >
      > Best of Luck AJ,
      >
      >
      >
      > Kind Regards,
      >
      >
      >
      > Ray
      >
      >
      > >
      >

    • rayjanine2002
      Like Jim has said a drain plug is the only sure way. The water is coming from the sail track on the mast down to the mast step plate and then into the bilge.
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Like Jim has said a drain plug is the only sure way. The water is coming from the sail track on the mast down to the mast step plate and then into the bilge. The 362's have balsa cored hulls so I would be very careful in installing any additional holes through the hull. I would just check on the boat right after a rain or after a snow fall and pump/sponge out the bilge accordingly.

        I unstep my mast for the winter so there is no way for the water to get into the bilge and it is dry as a bone.

        Good luck on your boat buying ventures. The 362 is an excellent sailboat and I am very happy with mine.

        Ray
      • Jim Starkey
        I don t belive any Sabre is cored below the water line. In any case, the are around the the bottom of the bilge where a garboard drain would be installed is
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I don't belive any Sabre is cored below the water line.  In any case, the are around the the bottom of the bilge where a garboard drain would be installed is certainly all glass.




          On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:41 PM, "rayjanine2002" <rayjanine@...> wrote:

           

          Like Jim has said a drain plug is the only sure way. The water is coming from the sail track on the mast down to the mast step plate and then into the bilge. The 362's have balsa cored hulls so I would be very careful in installing any additional holes through the hull. I would just check on the boat right after a rain or after a snow fall and pump/sponge out the bilge accordingly.

          I unstep my mast for the winter so there is no way for the water to get into the bilge and it is dry as a bone.

          Good luck on your boat buying ventures. The 362 is an excellent sailboat and I am very happy with mine.

          Ray

        • rayjanine2002
          Hi Jim: Unfortunately the 362 s made around the 1993 to 1994 timeframe are indeed balsa cored below the water line and solid fiberglass above it. The areas
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Jim:

            Unfortunately the 362's made around the 1993 to 1994 timeframe are indeed balsa cored below the water line and solid fiberglass above it. The areas around the bilge are solid glass so you are correct that the keel to hull joint is glassed but just outboard of it is balsa core. That is why Sabre wants folks to talk to them before putting any additional holes thru the hull. All the thru hulls are in a solid laminate area to help with compression loads but just a few inches away from them the hull goes to balsa core. So before I would put any holes in a 362 hull I would first find out what the hull core is made of in that area.

            Just my two cents.

            Ray
          • Jules Bender
            I too am an owner of a Sabre 362 #110, built in 1993, same vintage as Ray s boat....I was at the boat today and checked the crazing....at most I could find 4
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I too am an owner of a Sabre 362 #110, built in 1993, same vintage as Ray's boat....I was at the boat today and checked the crazing....at most I could find 4 areas where there was some crazing all of it in the cockpit and in all cases where the fibreglass was at right angles....I did move the boat from the east coast to Ca. in 2000, not sure if this would affect the crazing, but the amount of crazing you mentioned appeared excessive to me...regarding a windless, I added one once I came out to Ca. because I generally anchor in 40 feet of water...I got the specs for the installation from Glen at Sabre.....regarding the auto helm, I have the wheel mounted auto helm, it''s been on the boat for 18 years and works fine, so IMHO I would not invest in a below the deck unit....they say (whoever they is) to change the standing rigging after 20 years I'm at 19 but  I have the rigging checked every year by a rigger....unless you plan on serious off-shore sailing I think you could extend beyond 20 years....since the mast is keel mounted it's not going to fall on your head likes my friends deck mounted mast did......regarding the water in the bilge this is a good omen, it means the weep hole in the mast step is not clogged, the current owner should have added antifreeze to the bilge and checked the boat on occasion.....when I had my boat in the east I either took the mast down or had it in the water, mast in, with a bubbler in the water.....I think you made the right decision not to buy this 362....but they are wonderful boats.......Jules Bender 362/110

              On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 5:32 PM, navip11 <navip11@...> wrote:
               

              We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in "moving up."

              Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.

              Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list . so interested parties could get a visual.

              I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am seeing "normal?"
              Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the future?

              Some other questions:
              Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat of this size/weight?

              I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some cracks in the teak around the door catch.

              Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be replaced in the next 5yrs or so?

              Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this something I should consider as a future repair?

              No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?

              Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?

              Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the 362s?

              If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective knowledge before we consider that.

              Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!

              Cheers,

              AJ


            • Allison Lehman
              A J, Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know that furniture moves out of position when on jack stands. If in the water
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                A J,
                Is the boat on the hard or in the water?  if on the hard you need to know that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands.  If in the water then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it.  It has a dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.  

                When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits in the mast.  the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling price.  It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks.  I would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter.  Not all the 362s have this problem.  

                Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!  

                There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the front of the boat is a pain.  You might look and see if it was prewired, some folks ordered that.  

                One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers below deck for the mast collar.  If you really tune and wind the boat up those bolts try to suck up into the headliner!  we replaced with much larger ones and it made all the difference in the world.  

                Allison



                P Please consider the environment before printing this email






                On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:

                 

                We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in "moving up."

                Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.

                Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list . so interested parties could get a visual.

                I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am seeing "normal?"
                Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the future?

                Some other questions:
                Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat of this size/weight?

                I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some cracks in the teak around the door catch.

                Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be replaced in the next 5yrs or so?

                Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this something I should consider as a future repair?

                No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?

                Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?

                Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the 362s?

                If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective knowledge before we consider that.

                Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!

                Cheers,

                AJ


              • navip11
                Allison, The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch is
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Allison,

                  The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the smallest crater...

                  All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information here, this particular 362 is not for us.

                  Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some reservations there as well.

                  We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week, perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!

                  Best,
                  AJ



                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman <allison@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A J,
                  > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                  >
                  > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s have this problem.
                  >
                  > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                  >
                  > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired, some folks ordered that.
                  >
                  > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                  >
                  > Allison
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                  >
                  > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in "moving up."
                  > >
                  > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                  > >
                  > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list . so interested parties could get a visual.
                  > >
                  > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am seeing "normal?"
                  > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the future?
                  > >
                  > > Some other questions:
                  > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat of this size/weight?
                  > >
                  > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                  > >
                  > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                  > >
                  > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this something I should consider as a future repair?
                  > >
                  > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                  > >
                  > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                  > >
                  > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the 362s?
                  > >
                  > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective knowledge before we consider that.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > >
                  > > AJ
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Allison Lehman
                  AJ, This sounds suspiciously like a grounding and structural damage done. What a pity :-( If you are going to FL you might try to connect with Alan Pressman (
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    AJ,
                    This sounds suspiciously like a grounding and structural damage done.  What a pity :-(

                    If you are going to FL you might try to connect with Alan Pressman ( on this list) he is a very knowledgeable Sabre owner as well as a broker in FL.  He will know what is available and what is a good boat in that area.  

                    In my experience you want your own broker representing you needs in FL where the boats run the gambit in condition.

                    Good Luck,
                    Allison








                    On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:59 AM, navip11 wrote:

                     

                    Allison,

                    The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the smallest crater...

                    All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information here, this particular 362 is not for us.

                    Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some reservations there as well.

                    We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week, perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!

                    Best,
                    AJ

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                    >
                    > A J,
                    > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                    >
                    > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s have this problem.
                    >
                    > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                    >
                    > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired, some folks ordered that.
                    >
                    > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                    >
                    > Allison
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                    >
                    > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in "moving up."
                    > >
                    > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                    > >
                    > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list . so interested parties could get a visual.
                    > >
                    > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am seeing "normal?"
                    > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the future?
                    > >
                    > > Some other questions:
                    > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat of this size/weight?
                    > >
                    > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                    > >
                    > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                    > >
                    > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this something I should consider as a future repair?
                    > >
                    > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                    > >
                    > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                    > >
                    > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the 362s?
                    > >
                    > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective knowledge before we consider that.
                    > >
                    > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > >
                    > > AJ
                    > >
                    > >
                    >


                  • Peter Tollini
                    Aj - There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you ll like the 38. While in many ways
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Aj -
                      There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways, too.
                      One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric, self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without giving up any performance.  It might be worth the price if this is a "last" boat..
                      Pete


                      On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 <navip11@...> wrote:
                       

                      Allison,

                      The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the smallest crater...

                      All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information here, this particular 362 is not for us.

                      Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some reservations there as well.

                      We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week, perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!

                      Best,
                      AJ



                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                      >
                      > A J,
                      > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                      >
                      > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s have this problem.
                      >
                      > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                      >
                      > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired, some folks ordered that.
                      >
                      > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                      >
                      > Allison
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                      >
                      > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in "moving up."
                      > >
                      > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                      > >
                      > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list . so interested parties could get a visual.
                      > >
                      > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am seeing "normal?"
                      > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the future?
                      > >
                      > > Some other questions:
                      > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat of this size/weight?
                      > >
                      > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                      > >
                      > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                      > >
                      > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this something I should consider as a future repair?
                      > >
                      > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                      > >
                      > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem? What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                      > >
                      > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the 362s?
                      > >
                      > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective knowledge before we consider that.
                      > >
                      > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > >
                      > > AJ
                      > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • walkabout193
                      AJ We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        AJ

                        We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone, if the course of sail is long enough to warrant. The one luxury we don't have is a windlass, and it's definitely on our list. Our main is reasonable to raise and a breeze to lower with lazy jacks. We replaced all the masthead sheaves and put a s/s ball bearing sheeve on the main halyard which made raising the sail a bit smoother. We sail off a mooring so slip maneuvering is not part of our customary drill, which could be an issue. I would say if you're comfortable with you S30 I expect the S38 will be a quick adaptation. The three technologies I recommend to you are

                        1. good below deck AP, interfaced with wind instruments and a fluxgate compass
                        2. a suitable windlass
                        3. lazy jacks with a Tides Marine track for the main sail

                        Good luck and all the best

                        Len Bertaux
                        Walkabout S38mkii

                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Aj -
                        > There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like
                        > the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many
                        > ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways,
                        > too.
                        > One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric,
                        > self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or
                        > lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without
                        > giving up any performance. It might be worth the price if this is a "last"
                        > boat..
                        > Pete
                        >
                        >
                        > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 <navip11@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Allison,
                        > >
                        > > The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the
                        > > bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch
                        > > is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard
                        > > (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other
                        > > reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of
                        > > the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the
                        > > smallest crater...
                        > >
                        > > All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information
                        > > here, this particular 362 is not for us.
                        > >
                        > > Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this
                        > > could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found
                        > > that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison
                        > > to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in
                        > > a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much
                        > > boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are
                        > > considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really
                        > > appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some
                        > > reservations there as well.
                        > >
                        > > We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week,
                        > > perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!
                        > >
                        > > Best,
                        > > AJ
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > A J,
                        > > > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know
                        > > that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water
                        > > then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a
                        > > dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                        > > >
                        > > > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits
                        > > in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling
                        > > price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I
                        > > would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s
                        > > have this problem.
                        > > >
                        > > > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel
                        > > pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it
                        > > can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                        > > >
                        > > > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the
                        > > front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired,
                        > > some folks ordered that.
                        > > >
                        > > > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers
                        > > below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up
                        > > those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger
                        > > ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                        > > >
                        > > > Allison
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
                        > > "moving up."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
                        > > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
                        > > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that
                        > > this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list. so interested parties could get a visual.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
                        > > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
                        > > seeing "normal?"
                        > > > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
                        > > future?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Some other questions:
                        > > > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
                        > > of this size/weight?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
                        > > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried
                        > > to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some
                        > > cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
                        > > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
                        > > replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
                        > > something I should consider as a future repair?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
                        > > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
                        > > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling
                        > > up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional
                        > > weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
                        > > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
                        > > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact
                        > > that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem?
                        > > What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
                        > > 362s?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
                        > > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
                        > > knowledge before we consider that.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Cheers,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > AJ
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • navip11
                        Pete, Len, All great suggestions. Im going to print them out and place them in the boat research file! With reference to the 38-2 are there any areas I
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Pete, Len,

                          All great suggestions. Im going to print them out and place them in the "boat research" file!

                          With reference to the 38-2 are there any areas I should pay particular attention to (prior to any potential survey) when browsing the boat?

                          Thanks again,

                          AJ


                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > AJ
                          >
                          > We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone, if the course of sail is long enough to warrant. The one luxury we don't have is a windlass, and it's definitely on our list. Our main is reasonable to raise and a breeze to lower with lazy jacks. We replaced all the masthead sheaves and put a s/s ball bearing sheeve on the main halyard which made raising the sail a bit smoother. We sail off a mooring so slip maneuvering is not part of our customary drill, which could be an issue. I would say if you're comfortable with you S30 I expect the S38 will be a quick adaptation. The three technologies I recommend to you are
                          >
                          > 1. good below deck AP, interfaced with wind instruments and a fluxgate compass
                          > 2. a suitable windlass
                          > 3. lazy jacks with a Tides Marine track for the main sail
                          >
                          > Good luck and all the best
                          >
                          > Len Bertaux
                          > Walkabout S38mkii
                          >
                          > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Aj -
                          > > There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like
                          > > the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many
                          > > ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways,
                          > > too.
                          > > One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric,
                          > > self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or
                          > > lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without
                          > > giving up any performance. It might be worth the price if this is a "last"
                          > > boat..
                          > > Pete
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 <navip11@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > **
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Allison,
                          > > >
                          > > > The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the
                          > > > bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch
                          > > > is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard
                          > > > (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other
                          > > > reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of
                          > > > the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the
                          > > > smallest crater...
                          > > >
                          > > > All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information
                          > > > here, this particular 362 is not for us.
                          > > >
                          > > > Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this
                          > > > could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found
                          > > > that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison
                          > > > to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in
                          > > > a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much
                          > > > boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are
                          > > > considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really
                          > > > appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some
                          > > > reservations there as well.
                          > > >
                          > > > We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week,
                          > > > perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!
                          > > >
                          > > > Best,
                          > > > AJ
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > A J,
                          > > > > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know
                          > > > that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water
                          > > > then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a
                          > > > dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits
                          > > > in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling
                          > > > price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I
                          > > > would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s
                          > > > have this problem.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel
                          > > > pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it
                          > > > can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the
                          > > > front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired,
                          > > > some folks ordered that.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers
                          > > > below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up
                          > > > those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger
                          > > > ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Allison
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
                          > > > "moving up."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
                          > > > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
                          > > > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that
                          > > > this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list. so interested parties could get a visual.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
                          > > > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
                          > > > seeing "normal?"
                          > > > > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
                          > > > future?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Some other questions:
                          > > > > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
                          > > > of this size/weight?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
                          > > > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried
                          > > > to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some
                          > > > cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
                          > > > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
                          > > > replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
                          > > > something I should consider as a future repair?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
                          > > > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
                          > > > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling
                          > > > up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional
                          > > > weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
                          > > > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
                          > > > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact
                          > > > that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem?
                          > > > What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
                          > > > 362s?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
                          > > > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
                          > > > knowledge before we consider that.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Cheers,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > AJ
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Lee King
                          I have a 38mkI that I single hand, occasionally with a spinnaker. In addition to the suggestions below, I find two additional changes to be very helpful. One
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have a 38mkI that I single hand, occasionally with a spinnaker. In addition to the suggestions below, I find two additional changes to be very helpful. One is to move the main halyard to a winch and clutch on the mast. This makes hoisting, dousing and reefing much easier. My second  modification was to double end the main sheet, with one end on the cabin top and the other to a new winch on the starboard side, near the wheel. With access to the wheel, main sheet and jib sheet, short handed sailing is much easier.

                             Lee
                            1983 S38mkI Cloud Nine

                            Sent from my iPad

                            On Mar 4, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "navip11" <navip11@...> wrote:

                             

                            Pete, Len,

                            All great suggestions. Im going to print them out and place them in the "boat research" file!

                            With reference to the 38-2 are there any areas I should pay particular attention to (prior to any potential survey) when browsing the boat?

                            Thanks again,

                            AJ

                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" wrote:
                            >
                            > AJ
                            >
                            > We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone, if the course of sail is long enough to warrant. The one luxury we don't have is a windlass, and it's definitely on our list. Our main is reasonable to raise and a breeze to lower with lazy jacks. We replaced all the masthead sheaves and put a s/s ball bearing sheeve on the main halyard which made raising the sail a bit smoother. We sail off a mooring so slip maneuvering is not part of our customary drill, which could be an issue. I would say if you're comfortable with you S30 I expect the S38 will be a quick adaptation. The three technologies I recommend to you are
                            >
                            > 1. good below deck AP, interfaced with wind instruments and a fluxgate compass
                            > 2. a suitable windlass
                            > 3. lazy jacks with a Tides Marine track for the main sail
                            >
                            > Good luck and all the best
                            >
                            > Len Bertaux
                            > Walkabout S38mkii
                            >
                            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Aj -
                            > > There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like
                            > > the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many
                            > > ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways,
                            > > too.
                            > > One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric,
                            > > self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or
                            > > lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without
                            > > giving up any performance. It might be worth the price if this is a "last"
                            > > boat..
                            > > Pete
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > **
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Allison,
                            > > >
                            > > > The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the
                            > > > bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch
                            > > > is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard
                            > > > (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other
                            > > > reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of
                            > > > the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the
                            > > > smallest crater...
                            > > >
                            > > > All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information
                            > > > here, this particular 362 is not for us.
                            > > >
                            > > > Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this
                            > > > could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found
                            > > > that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison
                            > > > to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in
                            > > > a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much
                            > > > boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are
                            > > > considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really
                            > > > appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some
                            > > > reservations there as well.
                            > > >
                            > > > We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week,
                            > > > perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!
                            > > >
                            > > > Best,
                            > > > AJ
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > A J,
                            > > > > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know
                            > > > that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water
                            > > > then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a
                            > > > dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits
                            > > > in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling
                            > > > price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I
                            > > > would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s
                            > > > have this problem.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel
                            > > > pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it
                            > > > can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the
                            > > > front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired,
                            > > > some folks ordered that.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers
                            > > > below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up
                            > > > those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger
                            > > > ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Allison
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
                            > > > "moving up."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
                            > > > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
                            > > > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that
                            > > > this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here
                            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list. so interested parties could get a visual.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
                            > > > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
                            > > > seeing "normal?"
                            > > > > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
                            > > > future?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Some other questions:
                            > > > > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
                            > > > of this size/weight?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
                            > > > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried
                            > > > to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some
                            > > > cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
                            > > > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
                            > > > replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
                            > > > something I should consider as a future repair?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
                            > > > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
                            > > > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling
                            > > > up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional
                            > > > weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
                            > > > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
                            > > > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact
                            > > > that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem?
                            > > > What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
                            > > > 362s?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
                            > > > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
                            > > > knowledge before we consider that.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Cheers,
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > AJ
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • Peter Tollini
                            There s always the DMSTD (Dreaded Mast Step Disease)
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              There's always the DMSTD (Dreaded Mast Step Disease)


                              On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 3:23 PM, navip11 <navip11@...> wrote:
                               

                              Pete, Len,

                              All great suggestions. Im going to print them out and place them in the "boat research" file!

                              With reference to the 38-2 are there any areas I should pay particular attention to (prior to any potential survey) when browsing the boat?

                              Thanks again,

                              AJ



                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" wrote:
                              >
                              > AJ
                              >
                              > We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone, if the course of sail is long enough to warrant. The one luxury we don't have is a windlass, and it's definitely on our list. Our main is reasonable to raise and a breeze to lower with lazy jacks. We replaced all the masthead sheaves and put a s/s ball bearing sheeve on the main halyard which made raising the sail a bit smoother. We sail off a mooring so slip maneuvering is not part of our customary drill, which could be an issue. I would say if you're comfortable with you S30 I expect the S38 will be a quick adaptation. The three technologies I recommend to you are
                              >
                              > 1. good below deck AP, interfaced with wind instruments and a fluxgate compass
                              > 2. a suitable windlass
                              > 3. lazy jacks with a Tides Marine track for the main sail
                              >
                              > Good luck and all the best
                              >
                              > Len Bertaux
                              > Walkabout S38mkii
                              >
                              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Aj -
                              > > There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like
                              > > the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many
                              > > ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways,
                              > > too.
                              > > One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric,
                              > > self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or
                              > > lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without
                              > > giving up any performance. It might be worth the price if this is a "last"
                              > > boat..
                              > > Pete
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > **
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Allison,
                              > > >
                              > > > The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the
                              > > > bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch
                              > > > is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard
                              > > > (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other
                              > > > reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of
                              > > > the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the
                              > > > smallest crater...
                              > > >
                              > > > All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information
                              > > > here, this particular 362 is not for us.
                              > > >
                              > > > Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this
                              > > > could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found
                              > > > that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison
                              > > > to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in
                              > > > a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much
                              > > > boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are
                              > > > considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really
                              > > > appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some
                              > > > reservations there as well.
                              > > >
                              > > > We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week,
                              > > > perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!
                              > > >
                              > > > Best,
                              > > > AJ
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > A J,
                              > > > > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know
                              > > > that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water
                              > > > then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a
                              > > > dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits
                              > > > in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling
                              > > > price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I
                              > > > would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s
                              > > > have this problem.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel
                              > > > pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it
                              > > > can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the
                              > > > front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired,
                              > > > some folks ordered that.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers
                              > > > below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up
                              > > > those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger
                              > > > ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Allison
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
                              > > > "moving up."
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
                              > > > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
                              > > > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that
                              > > > this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here
                              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list. so interested parties could get a visual.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
                              > > > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
                              > > > seeing "normal?"
                              > > > > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
                              > > > future?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Some other questions:
                              > > > > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
                              > > > of this size/weight?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
                              > > > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried
                              > > > to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some
                              > > > cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
                              > > > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
                              > > > replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
                              > > > something I should consider as a future repair?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
                              > > > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
                              > > > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling
                              > > > up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional
                              > > > weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
                              > > > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
                              > > > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact
                              > > > that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem?
                              > > > What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
                              > > > 362s?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
                              > > > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
                              > > > knowledge before we consider that.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Cheers,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > AJ
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >


                            • tsaiapex25
                              Lee, I am interested in the double end main sheet method. Please expound. Thanks. Jeff Sabre 28-III, Abacus New Bern, NC
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Lee,
                                I am interested in the "double end main sheet" method. Please expound.

                                Thanks.

                                Jeff
                                Sabre 28-III, Abacus
                                New Bern, NC

                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Lee King <lrk30470@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have a 38mkI that I single hand, occasionally with a spinnaker. In addition to the suggestions below, I find two additional changes to be very helpful. One is to move the main halyard to a winch and clutch on the mast. This makes hoisting, dousing and reefing much easier. My second modification was to double end the main sheet, with one end on the cabin top and the other to a new winch on the starboard side, near the wheel. With access to the wheel, main sheet and jib sheet, short handed sailing is much easier.
                                >
                                > Lee
                                > 1983 S38mkI Cloud Nine
                                >
                                > Sent from my iPad
                                >
                              • walkabout193
                                As with all keel stepped Sabres, look for water damage and rot at the mast step. Our step was OK but the bulkhead behind was in poor shape. Easier repair than
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 5, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  As with all keel stepped Sabres, look for water damage and rot at the mast step. Our step was OK but the bulkhead behind was in poor shape. Easier repair than the mast step. That's the only endemic concern I know of.

                                  Len

                                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "navip11" <navip11@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Pete, Len,
                                  >
                                  > All great suggestions. Im going to print them out and place them in the "boat research" file!
                                  >
                                  > With reference to the 38-2 are there any areas I should pay particular attention to (prior to any potential survey) when browsing the boat?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks again,
                                  >
                                  > AJ
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > AJ
                                  > >
                                  > > We sail a 38 mkii, normally shorthanded. I even single hand her with the much-appreciated help of the below deck AP. I even put up a chicken chute, alone, if the course of sail is long enough to warrant. The one luxury we don't have is a windlass, and it's definitely on our list. Our main is reasonable to raise and a breeze to lower with lazy jacks. We replaced all the masthead sheaves and put a s/s ball bearing sheeve on the main halyard which made raising the sail a bit smoother. We sail off a mooring so slip maneuvering is not part of our customary drill, which could be an issue. I would say if you're comfortable with you S30 I expect the S38 will be a quick adaptation. The three technologies I recommend to you are
                                  > >
                                  > > 1. good below deck AP, interfaced with wind instruments and a fluxgate compass
                                  > > 2. a suitable windlass
                                  > > 3. lazy jacks with a Tides Marine track for the main sail
                                  > >
                                  > > Good luck and all the best
                                  > >
                                  > > Len Bertaux
                                  > > Walkabout S38mkii
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Aj -
                                  > > > There are plenty of couples on this list that cruise 38 Mk IIs. If you like
                                  > > > the way your 30 Mk III sails, odds are you'll like the 38. While in many
                                  > > > ways it's just a big cousin, it's actually more forgiving in a lot of ways,
                                  > > > too.
                                  > > > One option that a couple of friends have on their 402s is an electric,
                                  > > > self-tailing main halyard winch. That, a track system and a Dutchman or
                                  > > > lazy jacks, make handling the main as easy as in-boom furling, but without
                                  > > > giving up any performance. It might be worth the price if this is a "last"
                                  > > > boat..
                                  > > > Pete
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:59 AM, navip11 <navip11@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > **
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Allison,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The boat is out of the water on stands. What concerned me most about the
                                  > > > > bathroom door was that the teak trim along the door frame where the catch
                                  > > > > is located was cracked. Now unless someone did this while on the hard
                                  > > > > (possible) it seems more likely to me it is out of alignment for some other
                                  > > > > reasons. Specifically, I noted some missing lead in the foremost section of
                                  > > > > the keel. I thought perhaps the result of a grounding. As it wasn't the
                                  > > > > smallest crater...
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > All in all after thinking it over and considering the helpful information
                                  > > > > here, this particular 362 is not for us.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also, while we though the 362 design was great we are not sure that this
                                  > > > > could be "our last boat." Primarily, because of the v-berth. I also found
                                  > > > > that the cockpit wasn't as spacious as I thought it might be in comparison
                                  > > > > to our current 30 mk3. So now we are considering a 38-2. But this brings in
                                  > > > > a whole new financial dimension along with my concerns of being "too much
                                  > > > > boat" for the two of us to handle. As I mentioned in another thread we are
                                  > > > > considering a Tartan-372 which is a few years older but I admit we really
                                  > > > > appreciated the interior layout and accommodations. But I have some
                                  > > > > reservations there as well.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > We will be heading south from RI to the Sarasota area of FL next week,
                                  > > > > perhaps there is something in the area we might browse!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Best,
                                  > > > > AJ
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Allison Lehman wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > A J,
                                  > > > > > Is the boat on the hard or in the water? if on the hard you need to know
                                  > > > > that furniture "moves out of position" when on jack stands. If in the water
                                  > > > > then the boat has probably seen a lot of moisture/water in it. It has a
                                  > > > > dripless packing gland so it shouldn't have a lot of water in it.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > When I see water in my bilge it is from rain coming in the halyard exits
                                  > > > > in the mast. the crazing is cosmetic but should also affect the selling
                                  > > > > price. It becomes more than cosmetic if moisture gets in the cracks. I
                                  > > > > would recommend a good surveyor with a moisture meter. Not all the 362s
                                  > > > > have this problem.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Personally I would put a below-deck pilot on the boat, I think the wheel
                                  > > > > pilots hinder the feel of the boat and in big conditions I am not sure it
                                  > > > > can hold a course due to the weight. Find a boat with a windlass!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > There a lots of them out there and running that thick of wire to the
                                  > > > > front of the boat is a pain. You might look and see if it was prewired,
                                  > > > > some folks ordered that.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > One thing we did almost immediately was replace all the fender washers
                                  > > > > below deck for the mast collar. If you really tune and wind the boat up
                                  > > > > those bolts try to suck up into the headliner! we replaced with much larger
                                  > > > > ones and it made all the difference in the world.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Allison
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 5:32 PM, navip11 wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > We finally got a chance to check out a 362 we are considering in
                                  > > > > "moving up."
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Boat is a 1995 and in CT under wrap.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Overall from what we could see boat looks in good condition however
                                  > > > > there is gel crazing all over the deck. I have never seen it first hand
                                  > > > > before as I do not have this problem on our Sabre 30. However, I know that
                                  > > > > this problem is widespread on the 362s. I have created a folder here
                                  > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/1189271186/pic/list. so interested parties could get a visual.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I would greatly appreciate the groups thoughts on the crazing. Is this
                                  > > > > truly just "cosmetic" or something more? Is the amount of crazing I am
                                  > > > > seeing "normal?"
                                  > > > > > > Could the amount on this boat hinder my ability to resell in the
                                  > > > > future?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Some other questions:
                                  > > > > > > Also for those of you with 362s, is a wheel pilot adequate on a boat
                                  > > > > of this size/weight?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I noticed that the head door was seriously out of alignment and no
                                  > > > > where near being able to close. I also noticed someone else must have tried
                                  > > > > to force it or that there is an underlying problem as there were some
                                  > > > > cracks in the teak around the door catch.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Standing rigging: Boat has original, upon my limited visual inspection
                                  > > > > looked fine. Boat is a 1995, is this something that would need to be
                                  > > > > replaced in the next 5yrs or so?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Bottom- Was in good shape, but has never been barrier coated. Is this
                                  > > > > something I should consider as a future repair?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > No windlass: This boat doesn't have a windlass, while not necessarily
                                  > > > > a deal breaker for me, I am curious what it might cost to have one
                                  > > > > installed. As we anchor often and while I have no complaints with pulling
                                  > > > > up our 25lb Manson with 5/16ths chain now. I'm not sure if the additional
                                  > > > > weight needed for a larger anchor might be getting there?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Water in bilge now: Rig is current up and plenty of water in the
                                  > > > > bilge. In the winter the bilge on our 30 is pretty dry because we have a
                                  > > > > deck stepped mast I also put some pink stuff in just in case. IS the fact
                                  > > > > that water has been in bilge all winter (subject to freezing) a problem?
                                  > > > > What do most of you do who have deck stepped masts to prevent this?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Is there anything else I should pay particular attention to with the
                                  > > > > 362s?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > If we were interested we of course would seek the help of a
                                  > > > > professional surveyor but I am looking for the groups great collective
                                  > > > > knowledge before we consider that.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Thank you to those who spent the time reading this!
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Cheers,
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > AJ
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Lee King
                                  The original system, starting at the bitter end, was sheet to cabin top winch to clutch to stand-up block near the mast base, to a block on a bale at the
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 5, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The original system, starting at the bitter end, was sheet to cabin top winch to clutch to stand-up block near the mast base, to a block on a bale at the goose-neck to the 4:1 cascade going to the traveler, with the end secured to a Becket on a block attacked to the traveler.
                                     
                                    The new system is all of the above except end that would be attached to a Becket is led up through a block on the boom, along the boom to a block on the goose-neck, diagonally down to a block near the rail amidships, aft to a block that leads it to the winch hear the helm. This arrangement required a longer main sheet, and 3 additional blocks and a winch and cleat (unless the winch is self-tailing).
                                     
                                    Despite the lengthy description, this actually has no more resistance than the cabin top arrangement and is much easier to use by the helmsman if short or single handing or by the main sheet trimmer who is no longer in the pit person's way if fully crewed.
                                     
                                    Jeff, since you are local, drop by this weekend and I will show it to you.
                                     
                                    Lee

                                    From: tsaiapex25 <tsaiapex25@...>
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 6:58 PM
                                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] double end main sheet for single handling?
                                     
                                    Lee,
                                    I am interested in the "double end main sheet" method. Please expound.

                                    Thanks.

                                    Jeff
                                    Sabre 28-III, Abacus
                                    New Bern, NC

                                    --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, Lee King wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I have a 38mkI that I single hand, occasionally with a spinnaker. In addition to the suggestions below, I find two additional changes to be very helpful. One is to move the main halyard to a winch and clutch on the mast. This makes hoisting, dousing and reefing much easier. My second modification was to double end the main sheet, with one end on the cabin top and the other to a new winch on the starboard side, near the wheel. With access to the wheel, main sheet and jib sheet, short handed sailing is much easier.
                                    >
                                    > Lee
                                    > 1983 S38mkI Cloud Nine
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPad
                                    >

                                  • tsaiapex25
                                    Thanks for the explanation. I did not put two and two together that you are the Lee with Cloud Nine at my sailing club! Duh... Jeff
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Mar 5, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks for the explanation. I did not put two and two together that you are the Lee with Cloud Nine at my sailing club! Duh...

                                      Jeff

                                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Lee King <lrk30470@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > The original system, starting at the bitter end, was sheet to cabin top winch to clutch to stand-up block near the mast base, to a block on a bale at the goose-neck to the 4:1 cascade going to the traveler, with the end secured to a Becket on a block attacked to the traveler.
                                      >  
                                      > The new system is all of the above except end that would be attached to a Becket is led up through a block on the boom, along the boom to a block on the goose-neck, diagonally down to a block near the rail amidships, aft to a block that leads it to the winch hear the helm. This arrangement required a longer main sheet, and 3 additional blocks and a winch and cleat (unless the winch is self-tailing).
                                      >  
                                      > Despite the lengthy description, this actually has no more resistance than the cabin top arrangement and is much easier to use by the helmsman if short or single handing or by the main sheet trimmer who is no longer in the pit person's way if fully crewed.
                                      >  
                                      > Jeff, since you are local, drop by this weekend and I will show it to you.
                                      >  
                                      > Lee
                                      >
                                      > From: tsaiapex25 <tsaiapex25@...>
                                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 6:58 PM
                                      > Subject: [SabreSailboat] double end main sheet for single handling?
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > Lee,
                                      > I am interested in the "double end main sheet" method. Please expound.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks.
                                      >
                                      > Jeff
                                      > Sabre 28-III, Abacus
                                      > New Bern, NC
                                      >
                                      > --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, Lee King wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I have a 38mkI that I single hand, occasionally with a spinnaker. In addition to the suggestions below, I find two additional changes to be very helpful. One is to move the main halyard to a winch and clutch on the mast. This makes hoisting, dousing and reefing much easier. My second modification was to double end the main sheet, with one end on the cabin top and the other to a new winch on the starboard side, near the wheel. With access to the wheel, main sheet and jib sheet, short handed sailing is much easier.
                                      > >
                                      > > Lee
                                      > > 1983 S38mkI Cloud Nine
                                      > >
                                      > > Sent from my iPad
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.