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Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

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  • DAVID LOCHNER
    Take a look at the lifting Davies from Garhauer. Substantially built ( as all Garhauer stuff is) it is considerably less expensive than or Davits Dave Sent
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 24, 2013
      Take a look at the lifting Davies from Garhauer.  Substantially built ( as all Garhauer stuff is) it is considerably less expensive than or Davits 

      Dave

      Sent from my iPad

      On Feb 24, 2013, at 7:57 PM, mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...> wrote:

       

      I was not aware the Lehr engine is so heavy. Good point.

      However, the Highfield RIB is 110 pounds while similar-size fiberglass RIBS are 150-200.

      I like the idea of having a outboard-lifting davit on the stern. I saw a woman using one last week and thought, "that's for me."

    • Scott
      Mike, If you look in the archives, you ll find that the inflatable topic comes up once in while. Some have strong opinions. But, it really depends on your own
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
        Mike,

        If you look in the archives, you'll find that the inflatable topic comes up once in while. Some have strong opinions. But, it really depends on your own preferences for what you might want. I own what is called a Rib-lite made with Hypalon. Formally made by Avon (Zodiac). It's about 9 ft long and 85lbs. It's a light weight Rib with a folding plywood transom. The whole boat fits in a bag that fits in front of my mast when cruising in rough conditions without blocking access to the bow. I really like this boat. It is not overweight like a regular rib, and it tows like a feather. After half a dozen inflatables over the years, this one is my favorite. I can pull it onto a dock solo. Getting it on deck takes a little more help, but still easy. I've seen boats with the aluminum hull, like you saw. But, without the folding transom, it would not work for me due to storage issues. This model is now made by Achilles (or at least something similar). Achilles has it as the HB-FX models. 
        ( http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C215570%7C1794282%7C1794288&id=1792637  ) 
        I think Zodiac makes it in PVC under the "Cadet Compact" line. I've owned both PVC and Hypalon, I prefer Hypalon.

        In regards to the propane outboard. I would not be comfortable with it. I don't have one, nor direct knowledge of this outboard. But, I do have a Lehr propane engine on a weed-wacker. Worst decision. I bought it for similar reasons, stale gas always giving me issues. Instead, now I fight with a temperamental motor that has been returned once for repair. It often doesn't "like" the cylinder that I give it. I often wonder if the propane cylinders can get particles or water that effects them. I'm thinking that if you're just burning the propane, it doesn't matter, but when used in a motor, clean fuel becomes more important. Not sure, but I gave up early in the second season and bought a real gas weed-wacker. (Anyone want to buy a propane weed-wacker cheap?) Another issue is you never know how much propane you have left. You can't just 'top-it-off'. Thus, you would always have to carry a spare, and hope it doesn't die at the wrong time. (I could be wrong on the outboard, maybe they have a gauge of some sort.) But, from my experience, you'd have to carry two spares, because I never trusted that every cylinder would work. It was that bad.

        If you're thinking of getting away from gas outboards, you might consider the Torqeedo electric outboards. (Although, it may not have the horsepower your looking for.) For their size, they are expensive and they are not for everyone. But, I have been very happy with the one I bought about 4 or 5 years ago. I use it as my primary engine on the inflatable. I do carry a 5hp gas engine, but I never use it, it just sits on mother ship as a backup. If just running ashore on short runs, I only need to charge it every 3rd or 4th day when cruising. If really lightly used, it last even longer. I just use a cheap inverter to charge it when cruising.

        Scott
        After Midnight
        '89 34 mkII (Targa) #387







        From: mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...>
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:40 PM
        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

         
        I'm in the market for a new dinghy and OB and shopped the boat show today. It was the last day of the how and I thought I might get some good pricing.

        I am looking at RIBs in the 9.5'-10.5' range, which means say $2500 in PVC or $3500 in Hypalon. I was intrigued by the Highfield Classic line of boats which are RIBs with aluminum instead of fiberglass hulls. I was under the impression they were built by Caribe, but their brochure lists an address in China.

        Anyone have experience with these boats?

        The Lehr propane outboards now have a 9.9 HP engine at the top of their line for $2700 and I am VERY interested. We use our dinghy sporadically, the gas goes bad, and I end up cleaning my carburetor. These engines are very clean and of course propane is readily available and doesn;t go bad.

        Any thoughts?

        Mike
        Sabre To Be Named Later



      • mhrutstein
        Thanks for the informative response. To address the how-much-fuel-do-I-have-left issue they have developed a composite see-through refillable canister. Not
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
          Thanks for the informative response.

          To address the how-much-fuel-do-I-have-left issue they have developed a composite see-through refillable canister. Not sure of the capacity but it is maybe 1/2 to 2/3 the capacity of the tank that sits under your backyard grill. It has a smaller footprint, doesn't rust, etc.

          Anyone have a Highfield aluminum RIB?

          Mike
          STBNL
        • Allison Lehman
          Mike, One other thing to take into consideration is the dificuluty of managing bringing onboard an aluminum rib. Specifically, sooner or later, conditions
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
            Mike,
            One other thing to take into consideration is the dificuluty of managing bringing onboard an aluminum rib.  Specifically, sooner or later, conditions will dictate that you not tow it any longer.  At that point most likely it will be windy and while you will have an helper (presumably a halyard) you will be slinging something abound in the wind that will potentially chew up either your boat's toe rail or topsiders.

            I have seen this happen a couple of times as it is very difficult to control if you have to pull it out on the windward side.  If you can use the leeward side then its just an issue of getting it near enough to the boat to land it.  








            from: mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...>
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:40 PM
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

             
            I'm in the market for a new dinghy and OB and shopped the boat show today. It was the last day of the how and I thought I might get some good pricing.

            I am looking at RIBs in the 9.5'-10.5' range, which means say $2500 in PVC or $3500 in Hypalon. I was intrigued by the Highfield Classic line of boats which are RIBs with aluminum instead of fiberglass hulls. I was under the impression they were built by Caribe, but their brochure lists an address in China.

            Anyone have experience with these boats?

            The Lehr propane outboards now have a 9.9 HP engine at the top of their line for $2700 and I am VERY interested. We use our dinghy sporadically, the gas goes bad, and I end up cleaning my carburetor. These engines are very clean and of course propane is readily available and doesn;t go bad.

            Any thoughts?

            Mike
            Sabre To Be Named Later





          • mhrutstein
            That s a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
              That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

              I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

              Mike
              STBNL
            • David and Catherine Allin
              I believe that it entirely depends upon what you wish to do with the boat. On Lake Champlain we had a Zodiac with an inflatable floor , which eventually rotted
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
                I believe that it entirely depends upon what you wish to do with the boat.  On Lake Champlain we had a Zodiac with an inflatable floor , which eventually rotted at the transom when it got into salt water but was entirely suitabel for the little use it got there..

                Now we spend about six months in the Bahamas, and here the dinghy of choice is either AB or Caribe, with possibly Brig and Nouverama coming in distant places.  We have a 9'06" AB with fibreglass bottom and 8 HP Yamaha engine which will allow us to plane with two aboard. It is the lighter one not having the locker forward and we heave it on deck using our electric winch and the spinaker halyard.  For ocean passages it lives upside down on the fore deck otherwise it is towed.  Yamaha engines are the engine of choice and spares etc are available in most places.

                Perhaps this is not " p c " enough for some, but our dinghy is continuously used every day, and sometimes for long distances... it is our car and we want it to be as safe and as comfortable and as reliable as possible.
                Cheers.

                David & Catherine Allin
              • mhrutstein
                I am sure there are folks who d prefer you to buy a four-stroke... or row ashore... not having cruised extensively I am not sure how practical that would be.
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
                  I am sure there are folks who'd prefer you to buy a four-stroke... or row ashore... not having cruised extensively I am not sure how practical that would be. On my last bareboat charter, we would had some LONG rows to make if not for the Mercury OB.

                  I assume in the Bahamas that Hypalon dinghies are desirable.
                • David B. Witherill
                  I have a Lehr 2.5 outboard that I am currently using in the Bahamas. Great engine. I use a 5 lb propane tank that can be refilled, but it also takes a 1
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
                    I have a Lehr 2.5 outboard that I am currently using in the Bahamas.   Great engine.   I use a 5 lb propane tank that can be refilled, but it also takes a 1 pound bottle that I carry as spare fuel.   The weight was almost identical to 2.5 HP gas four strokes.   Not sure how the new 9.9 stacks up.   It is great not to have to carry gas on board.   With a 10' dinghy you could carry a 10 lb bottle without any trouble.  

                    Dave
                    Pathfinder, 34 #328






                  • mhrutstein
                    That s great to know, Dave. What kind and how big is your dinghy?
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
                      That's great to know, Dave. What kind and how big is your dinghy?
                    • Jim Starkey
                      Case in point: Last summer we were heading east. The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas. We
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 25, 2013
                        Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married.

                        A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way.

                        If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens.

                        Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad."

                        Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal.

                        On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                         

                        That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                        I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                        Mike
                        STBNL


                      • Janice Kowalke
                        From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                          From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                           
                          One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                           
                           
                           
                          This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                           
                          Jan
                          From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                           
                          Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal.
                          On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                           
                          That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                          I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                          Mike
                          STBNL

                        • Charles Sidwa
                          My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great. My old, dare I
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                            
                            My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                             
                            Charlie
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                             

                            From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                             
                            One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                             
                             
                             
                            This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                             
                            Jan
                            From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                             
                            Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                             
                            That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                            I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                            Mike
                            STBNL

                          • Bennett Kaufman
                            One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                              One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                               
                              ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)

                              --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...> wrote:

                              From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM

                               
                              
                              My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                               
                              Charlie
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                               
                              From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                               
                              One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                               
                               
                               
                              This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                               
                              Jan
                              From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                               
                              Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                               
                              That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                              I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                              Mike
                              STBNL

                            • Charles Sidwa
                              The local marinas in upstate NY seem to be able to get alcohol free gas. There is even a gas station in Watertown that sells alcohol free high test. I don t
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                
                                The local marinas in upstate NY seem to be able to get alcohol free gas.  There is even a gas station in Watertown that sells alcohol free high test.  I don't know how they do this but I use it in all my low usage applications, along with K100-MG.
                                 
                                Charlie
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:02 AM
                                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Outboard fuel and additives

                                 

                                One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                                 
                                ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)

                                --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...> wrote:

                                From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM

                                 
                                
                                My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                                 
                                Charlie
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                 
                                From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                                 
                                One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                                 
                                Jan
                                From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                 
                                Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                                 
                                That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                                I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                                Mike
                                STBNL

                              • Jim Starkey
                                You should be aware that this is illegal. Aviation (100LL -- low lead) is lower in lead than the interior of a lead-acid battery, but just so. It is low lead
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                  You should be aware that this is illegal.  Aviation (100LL -- low lead) is lower in lead than the interior of a lead-acid battery, but just so.  It is low lead only in comparison to aviation fuels that preceded it.  It is also prone to fouling plugs, even with plugs designed for it and scavenging procedures during engine shutdown.  Leaded fuel is legal only in aircraft.

                                  There are two other good reasons not to do this.  Until another general aviation fuel is certificated and existing engines are approved for a new fuel (we're talking a decade here), 90+% of general aviation piston aircraft depend on the availability of 100LL.  If the EPA were to detect significant leakage from GA to other uses, their margin tolerance of 100LL for aviation use might break.

                                  The other reason is it's around $6.50 a gallon.


                                  On 2/26/13 9:02 AM, Bennett Kaufman wrote:
                                   

                                  One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                                   
                                  ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)

                                  --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...> wrote:

                                  From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM

                                   
                                  
                                  My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                                   
                                  Charlie
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                   
                                  From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                                   
                                  One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                                   
                                  Jan
                                  From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                   
                                  Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                                   
                                  That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                                  I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                                  Mike
                                  STBNL


                                • Jim Starkey
                                  Gasoline is shipped from the refinery sans alcohol. The alcohol is added further down the delivery chain. If you can find it, get it. A modest number of GA
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                    Gasoline is shipped from the refinery sans alcohol.  The alcohol is added further down the delivery chain.  If you can find it, get it.

                                    A modest number of GA aircraft have gotten approval for "mogas", but only has without alcohol.  If you hang for a bit at your local airport on a nice Saturday afternoon and ask around, you should be able to identify a source.

                                    Aviation fuel on airplane lists is what varnish is to the Sabre list.


                                    On 2/26/13 9:07 AM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                                     

                                    

                                    The local marinas in upstate NY seem to be able to get alcohol free gas.  There is even a gas station in Watertown that sells alcohol free high test.  I don't know how they do this but I use it in all my low usage applications, along with K100-MG.
                                     
                                    Charlie
                                     
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:02 AM
                                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Outboard fuel and additives

                                     
                                    One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                                     
                                    ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)

                                    --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...> wrote:

                                    From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM

                                     
                                    
                                    My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                                     
                                    Charlie
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                     
                                    From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                                     
                                    One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                                     
                                    Jan
                                    From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                     
                                    Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                                     
                                    That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.

                                    I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.

                                    Mike
                                    STBNL


                                  • sailor11767
                                    Ben, Freeway, or Lee? I m thinking of it for lawnmowers, weed wackers, chain saws, and other lightly used household engines. Harry
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                      Ben,

                                      Freeway, or Lee? I'm thinking of it for lawnmowers, weed wackers, chain saws, and other lightly used household engines.

                                      Harry

                                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Bennett Kaufman <kaufmanb@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                                      >  
                                      > ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)
                                      >
                                      > --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                                      > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 
                                      >
                                      > My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                                      >  
                                      > Charlie
                                      >  
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      >
                                      > From: Janice Kowalke
                                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                                      >  
                                      > One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                                      >  
                                      > http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=K100G&Store_Code=KFTO
                                      >  
                                      >  
                                      > This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                                      >  
                                      > Jan
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
                                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the
                                      > carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      > That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.
                                      >
                                      > I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.
                                      >
                                      > Mike
                                      > STBNL
                                      >
                                    • sailor11767
                                      The alternative, around here, is around $6/quart, sold at the local farm supply place! Or, according to Pure-Gas.Com, the nearest road station is in Easton, or
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                        The alternative, around here, is around $6/quart, sold at the local farm supply place!

                                        Or, according to Pure-Gas.Com, the nearest road station is in Easton, or 50 miles from here.

                                        Harry

                                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The other reason is it's around $6.50 a gallon.
                                        >
                                      • Bennett Kaufman
                                        The airport in/near Edgewater...Lee, I think it is.   ben kaufman ... From: sailor11767 Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Outboard fuel and
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                          The airport in/near Edgewater...Lee, I think it is.
                                           
                                          ben kaufman

                                          --- On Tue, 2/26/13, sailor11767 <sailor11767@...> wrote:

                                          From: sailor11767 <sailor11767@...>
                                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Outboard fuel and additives
                                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 6:02 PM

                                           
                                          Ben,

                                          Freeway, or Lee? I'm thinking of it for lawnmowers, weed wackers, chain saws, and other lightly used household engines.

                                          Harry

                                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Bennett Kaufman wrote:
                                          >
                                          > One recommendation, which may have come from this forum. is to stop by your local private aviation airport and pick up aviation gas--it does not contain alcohol, and is therefore free from the water-retaining issues of gas from the gas-station pump. It also seems to have a longer "shelf life" (i.e., doesn't go "bad" over a season). Yes, it costs more than gas-station fuel, but it's a lot cheaper than an engine or carburetor overhaul, and does not degrade the rubber hoses. I've used it in in my 2-stroke (horrors!) Nissan 5 HP for several seasons, and my outboard mechanic always comments on how clean the carb, etc. look.
                                          >  
                                          > ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)
                                          >
                                          > --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Charles Sidwa
                                          > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                          > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 8:46 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > 
                                          >
                                          > My powerboat mechanic said to me if you pour K100-MG in a tank of p..s it will burn fine, a bit of exaggeration but it sure does work great.  My old, dare I say, hard starting 2 stroke jet ski starts right up like it's not 13 years old.  I swear by this for gas applications.  Do get the marine version as it has more water removing additive in it.
                                          >  
                                          > Charlie
                                          >  
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          >
                                          > From: Janice Kowalke
                                          > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:35 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From my expierence with fuel that seems to have water/moisture that affects any engine, I have found this product to as close to a miracle cure as I have found.  I have recommended it to multiple friends for gas and diesel (different products) and they all have found it to have resolved most of their fuel related issues.
                                          >  
                                          > One friend spent approx. $800 on repairs to a 2004 vintage Honda 90 four stroke to resolve hard to start and rough idling, which did not significantly improve the situation.  After using the product as directed and then as a maintenance additive, they no longer have any issues.  This friend is a "I won't believe it until I prove it" type and now recommends this product to all.
                                          >  
                                          > http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=K100G&Store_Code=KFTO
                                          >  
                                          >  
                                          > This is my opinion based on my results.  I don't want to start any fuel additive war.
                                          >  
                                          > Jan
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Jim Starkey
                                          > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:35 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Case in point:  Last summer we were heading east.  The wind, mostly unforecast, was honking out of the SE at 25 knots apparent and 6-8 foot following seas.  We were towing a 9' Avon with a high pressure flow.  The motor was on the rail and everything in the dinghy was tied down.  Off Cape Porpoise, the dinghy painter parted.  Bummer.  We were able come up to it on the windward side and flip it back upright with a boat hook.  and we're still married. A RIB without a motor was probably possible to salvage.  A RIB with a 88 lb. outboard, no way. If you have an outboard that is a major PITA to pull up to the rail, you're going to leave on the dinghy when you don't expect trouble.  And that's when trouble happens. Why do you need a 10 hp motor for a dinghy that is used so infrequently that the "gas goes bad." Incidentally, "gas goes bad" is more often that not water absorbed by ethanol precipitating out, forming a tiny water ball blocking the
                                          > carburetor jet.   This can -- and has been -- designed around by modern outboards.  This may be an excuse for new engine (anyone want a Johnson 3hp that doesn't start?), but it isn't a reason to go to propane.  The Johnson took about a half hour of work to expose the carburetor.  My current Mercury 6 hp has the carburetor sitting fully exposed on a little pedestal. On 2/25/2013 12:14 PM, mhrutstein wrote:
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          > That's a good point, and it reinforces the idea that there is no one perfect dinghy. Some are great for coastal-cruising boats and some are good for ocean-crossing boats; some make good tenders for a 30-footer and others for a 40-footer. No one dinghy is going to meet all these needs.
                                          >
                                          > I feel that unless I am crossing oceans, I can pick my weather, and as long as I get the engine and fuel tank out I am going to be able to tow a RIB in most conditions. Last Monday I sailed 30 miles from Anguilla to St. Barts in 20-25 knots of wind and seas 6-8 feet with some occasional whoppers thrown in. With the engine safely mounted on my stern rail and the fuel tank secured in my cockpit, our nine-foot Tui RIB skated happily behind us all the way.
                                          >
                                          > Mike
                                          > STBNL
                                          >

                                        • Bennett Kaufman
                                          I haven t bought avgas in a while, so I can t give you any idea about the price. Last time I got any (last Spring), it was about $1.00/gallon more than
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                            I haven't bought avgas in a while, so I can't give you any idea about the price. Last time I got any (last Spring), it was about $1.00/gallon more than regular unleaded gasoline at the gas statin nearby.
                                             
                                            Just don't let Jim Starkey catch you using it....he'll report you to the EPA!
                                             
                                            ben kaufman
                                            --- On Tue, 2/26/13, sailor11767 <sailor11767@...> wrote:

                                            From: sailor11767 <sailor11767@...>
                                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Outboard fuel and additives
                                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 6:05 PM

                                             
                                            The alternative, around here, is around $6/quart, sold at the local farm supply place!

                                            Or, according to Pure-Gas.Com, the nearest road station is in Easton, or 50 miles from here.

                                            Harry

                                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > The other reason is it's around $6.50 a gallon.
                                            >

                                          • Jim Starkey
                                            Tell you what --- you don t tell the EPA I sold a 22 year old Sabre 36 with a virgin holding tank and I won t report anyone to the EPA for squandering avgas in
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                              Tell you what --- you don't tell the EPA I sold a 22 year old Sabre 36 with a virgin holding tank and I won't report anyone to the EPA for squandering avgas in an outboard.  Deal?


                                              On 2/26/2013 6:44 PM, Bennett Kaufman wrote:
                                               

                                              I haven't bought avgas in a while, so I can't give you any idea about the price. Last time I got any (last Spring), it was about $1.00/gallon more than regular unleaded gasoline at the gas statin nearby.
                                               
                                              Just don't let Jim Starkey catch you using it....he'll report you to the EPA!
                                               
                                              ben kaufman
                                              --- On Tue, 2/26/13, sailor11767 <sailor11767@...> wrote:

                                              From: sailor11767 <sailor11767@...>
                                              Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Outboard fuel and additives
                                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 6:05 PM

                                               
                                              The alternative, around here, is around $6/quart, sold at the local farm supply place!

                                              Or, according to Pure-Gas.Com, the nearest road station is in Easton, or 50 miles from here.

                                              Harry

                                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > The other reason is it's around $6.50 a gallon.
                                              >


                                            • walkabout193
                                              Mike We bought our boat 5 years back, and with three kids decided upon a large RIB. At first we purchased an 8 hp merc OB, but within a week realizing its
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Feb 27, 2013
                                                Mike
                                                We bought our boat 5 years back, and with three kids decided upon a large RIB. At first we purchased an 8 hp merc OB, but within a week realizing its weight would be an issue exchanged it for the 6 hp model. With just me and the dog she planes up real nice. After two summers of manhandling the engine on and off the dink we purchased a lift from Kato. Not only well made, it has a one point fastener system allowing us to take it off and on easily. It's a bit pricey but you get what you pay for. We never travel with the OB on the dink. And when we travel offshore the dink goes on the foredeck, upside down, deflated, securely lashed. We use a spare halyard to lift it and its no sweat. The size of our dink on the boe end presents some access difficulties flying the spinnaker as getting around it on the bow is tight. As the kids start to peel away however we plan on downsizing to the smallest RIB on the market.
                                                Len Bertaux
                                                Walkabout S38mkii

                                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "mhrutstein" <mhrutstein@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I'm in the market for a new dinghy and OB and shopped the boat show today. It was the last day of the how and I thought I might get some good pricing.
                                                >
                                                > I am looking at RIBs in the 9.5'-10.5' range, which means say $2500 in PVC or $3500 in Hypalon. I was intrigued by the Highfield Classic line of boats which are RIBs with aluminum instead of fiberglass hulls. I was under the impression they were built by Caribe, but their brochure lists an address in China.
                                                >
                                                > Anyone have experience with these boats?
                                                >
                                                > The Lehr propane outboards now have a 9.9 HP engine at the top of their line for $2700 and I am VERY interested. We use our dinghy sporadically, the gas goes bad, and I end up cleaning my carburetor. These engines are very clean and of course propane is readily available and doesn;t go bad.
                                                >
                                                > Any thoughts?
                                                >
                                                > Mike
                                                > Sabre To Be Named Later
                                                >
                                              • mhrutstein
                                                Thanks, Len, I will look for that Kato product!
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Feb 27, 2013
                                                  Thanks, Len, I will look for that Kato product!
                                                • jay4868
                                                  On the subject of dingy towing I have been using a version of a Dingy Tow mechanism that tows the dingy backwards (motor on)   tethered to the main
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 14, 2013
                                                    On the subject of dingy towing I have been using a version of a "Dingy Tow" mechanism that tows the dingy backwards (motor on)  
                                                    tethered to the main ship stern.  We have been in all kinds of weather and sea conditions without any difficulty at all.  Its the most convenient system I have found although it looks a bit odd.

                                                    Joe M
                                                    Ceapach S38M1


                                                    From: mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...>
                                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 9:32 PM
                                                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                     
                                                    That's great to know, Dave. What kind and how big is your dinghy?



                                                  • Charles Sidwa
                                                    Is this what you are using? http://dinghy-tow.com/ Charlie ... From: jay4868@yahoo.com To:
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 14, 2013
                                                      
                                                      Is this what you are using?  http://dinghy-tow.com/ 
                                                       
                                                      Charlie
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:05 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                       

                                                      On the subject of dingy towing I have been using a version of a "Dingy Tow" mechanism that tows the dingy backwards (motor on)  
                                                      tethered to the main ship stern.  We have been in all kinds of weather and sea conditions without any difficulty at all.  Its the most convenient system I have found although it looks a bit odd.

                                                      Joe M
                                                      Ceapach S38M1


                                                      From: mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...>
                                                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 9:32 PM
                                                      Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                       
                                                      That's great to know, Dave. What kind and how big is your dinghy?



                                                    • jay4868
                                                      its a home made version of that product ________________________________ From: Charles Sidwa To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Mar 17, 2013
                                                        its a home made version of that product


                                                        From: Charles Sidwa <ChasSidwa@...>
                                                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:00 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                         
                                                        
                                                        Is this what you are using?  http://dinghy-tow.com/ 
                                                         
                                                        Charlie
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:05 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                         
                                                        On the subject of dingy towing I have been using a version of a "Dingy Tow" mechanism that tows the dingy backwards (motor on)  
                                                        tethered to the main ship stern.  We have been in all kinds of weather and sea conditions without any difficulty at all.  Its the most convenient system I have found although it looks a bit odd.

                                                        Joe M
                                                        Ceapach S38M1


                                                        From: mhrutstein <mhrutstein@...>
                                                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 9:32 PM
                                                        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Shopping for a RIB and outboard at the the Boston Boat Show

                                                         
                                                        That's great to know, Dave. What kind and how big is your dinghy?





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