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Re: Sabre 36 mast drain solutions

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  • JohnF
    Some additional suggestions: 1) We also have 87 34II, when we bought the boat the end grain of the cabin sole around the mast step was wet and starting to
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 22, 2013
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      Some additional suggestions:
      1) We also have '87 34II, when we bought the boat the end grain of the cabin sole around the mast step was wet and starting to rot. The PO had the foresight to seal the end grain of the cabin sole closest to the drain hole in the mast, but the cabin sole on the other 3 sides of the mast was moist and starting to rot. We run a small air dryer 24/7 when we are connected to shore power and it did a great job of drying things out (see link below). We position the air dryer right next to the mast step. Once it was dry we used Git Rot, CPES, or some similar product to seal it, and we have halted the creeping progression of rot in the cabin sole -- we continue to run the air dryer just to help keep air moving and moisture at bay:

      http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100137&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50667&subdeptNum=50668&classNum=50671#.UP5V4met_Pg

      Our boat has a nice wood collar piece of trim around the mast that covers the mast step, and I assume its a moisture trap. We prop it up so air can circulate whenever we leave the boat. Note: the air dryer above does a nice job holding up the collar...

      2) Once you have the limber hole in the bottom of your mast you need to keep it clean. We sometimes get mud daubers at the mast head and the debris ends up at the bottom of the mast. We use a very skinny long brush a couple times a year to clean it out. When there is debris in the bottom of the mast, water will tend to seep out on all sides of the mast (ref. point #1, above!) and will not flow through the drain hole.


      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote:
      >
      > The 1987 34II we have is probably similar to your 36. I would advise drilling the hole horizontally into the mast base and providing a channel in the mast base from the hole to the bilge. The issue is that water pools and soaks into the end grain of the plywood cabin floor. This wicks the water several feet from the mast step and eventually deteriorates not only the floor but also the adjacent bulkhead. So anything you can do to seal the end grain and provide a good channel for the water to drain to the bilge will help.
      > Presuming the area is currently wet, it will not be possible to use epoxy to seal the end grain until it can be thoroughly dried. It will also may not be possible to seal the channel you make in the mast step from the hole to the bilge. Perhaps you can use some other materials to temporarily channel the water until you can effect more permanent repairs.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Martin
      >
      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > I recently purchased Sabre 36' 1990 and I am absolutely smitten with the boat. She is being stored "wet" with the mast up this winter. The boat has the classic mast step drainage issues as described in numerous threads most notably this:
      > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/message/34624
      > >
      > > Water from the mast is currently winding up in the shower pan.
      > >
      > > With the mast up what quick solutions can be done to stop the damage until the she comes out next fall for a rebuild ?
      > >
      > > Can I take a coat hanger and try to clear the drain hole in the bottom of the step using the mast cable exit hole for access?
      > >
      > > If I drill a 1/4" horizontal hole through the mast and mast step right at the bottom where the mast sits on the step (aft side) will the water drain here instead?
      > >
      > > Any other suggestions?
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Peter
      > >
      >
    • pbfein
      Thank you for the ideas. This is an intermediate solution until we can haul the boat and pull the mast next fall. At that time I am planning to replace the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 22, 2013
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        Thank you for the ideas. This is an intermediate solution until we can haul the boat and pull the mast next fall. At that time I am planning to replace the support at the head threshold and the sole forward of the mast (at least). Will also install a properly sealed drain tube inside the step.

        For now I will drill the horizontal hole and create a channel. I will lightly seal the forward part of the mast at the step to encourage the water to exit through the aft hole. Also planning to put some wicks under the step leading aft to ensure no water is getting out forward through an existing limber hole.

        Peter



        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote:
        >
        > The 1987 34II we have is probably similar to your 36. I would advise drilling the hole horizontally into the mast base and providing a channel in the mast base from the hole to the bilge. The issue is that water pools and soaks into the end grain of the plywood cabin floor. This wicks the water several feet from the mast step and eventually deteriorates not only the floor but also the adjacent bulkhead. So anything you can do to seal the end grain and provide a good channel for the water to drain to the bilge will help.
        > Presuming the area is currently wet, it will not be possible to use epoxy to seal the end grain until it can be thoroughly dried. It will also may not be possible to seal the channel you make in the mast step from the hole to the bilge. Perhaps you can use some other materials to temporarily channel the water until you can effect more permanent repairs.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Martin
        >
        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > I recently purchased Sabre 36' 1990 and I am absolutely smitten with the boat. She is being stored "wet" with the mast up this winter. The boat has the classic mast step drainage issues as described in numerous threads most notably this:
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/message/34624
        > >
        > > Water from the mast is currently winding up in the shower pan.
        > >
        > > With the mast up what quick solutions can be done to stop the damage until the she comes out next fall for a rebuild ?
        > >
        > > Can I take a coat hanger and try to clear the drain hole in the bottom of the step using the mast cable exit hole for access?
        > >
        > > If I drill a 1/4" horizontal hole through the mast and mast step right at the bottom where the mast sits on the step (aft side) will the water drain here instead?
        > >
        > > Any other suggestions?
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Peter
        > >
        >
      • sailor11767
        While water is the cause of the problem, water is not really the problem. The problem is rot, and the best thing you can do is stop the rot. I m a big
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 22, 2013
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          While water is the cause of the problem, water is not really "the problem." The problem is rot, and the best thing you can do is stop the rot.

          I'm a big believer in Ethylene Glycol as a rot preventer/killer.
          * It is cheap.
          * It kills all living things, including fungus (which causes rot).
          * It doesn't decompose in wood, providing a long-term treatment
          * It is hygroscopic, meaning it likes water. It will move through the wood to get to water. Water, of course, is necessary for rot. Ergo, it goes to the source of the problem.
          * It is easy to apply. I keep a syringe (West Systems, or similar) full of it.
          * It can be applied to wet wood.
          * West Systems did some research and determined that the impact on glue joints is negligible.
          * It has been used in historic preservation efforts.

          Google "rot wood glycol" and learn more about this great stuff. Here is one link to get you started:
          http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/rot.html

          If you only want to stem the tide while you wait for fall, then do everything you can to stop the water -- and then squirt EG anyplace you can get to.

          Harry


          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
          >
          >
          > I recently purchased Sabre 36' 1990 and I am absolutely smitten with the boat. She is being stored "wet" with the mast up this winter. The boat has the classic mast step drainage issues as described in numerous threads most notably this:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/message/34624
          >
          > Water from the mast is currently winding up in the shower pan.
          >
          > With the mast up what quick solutions can be done to stop the damage until the she comes out next fall for a rebuild ?
          >
          > Can I take a coat hanger and try to clear the drain hole in the bottom of the step using the mast cable exit hole for access?
          >
          > If I drill a 1/4" horizontal hole through the mast and mast step right at the bottom where the mast sits on the step (aft side) will the water drain here instead?
          >
          > Any other suggestions?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Peter
          >
        • Martin
          The symptoms you describe are similar to the problem we had with our 34. Turned out the limber hole under the mast step had been blocked at the factory by
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 25, 2013
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            The symptoms you describe are similar to the problem we had with our 34. Turned out the limber hole under the mast step had been blocked at the factory by epoxy from one of the holes drilled for the mast step bolts.
            You might check to be sure the limber hole forward is clear.

            A drain hole in the mast step is OK but rot can start unseen if not sealed well. A trench on the top of the mast step is as functional and easy to inspect. If you really want to go first class you could have a stainless box built to stand the mast in. A tube from that could go into the bilge.

            Cheers,
            Martin


            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
            >
            > Thank you for the ideas. This is an intermediate solution until we can haul the boat and pull the mast next fall. At that time I am planning to replace the support at the head threshold and the sole forward of the mast (at least). Will also install a properly sealed drain tube inside the step.
            >
            > For now I will drill the horizontal hole and create a channel. I will lightly seal the forward part of the mast at the step to encourage the water to exit through the aft hole. Also planning to put some wicks under the step leading aft to ensure no water is getting out forward through an existing limber hole.
            >
            > Peter
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote:
            > >
            > > The 1987 34II we have is probably similar to your 36. I would advise drilling the hole horizontally into the mast base and providing a channel in the mast base from the hole to the bilge. The issue is that water pools and soaks into the end grain of the plywood cabin floor. This wicks the water several feet from the mast step and eventually deteriorates not only the floor but also the adjacent bulkhead. So anything you can do to seal the end grain and provide a good channel for the water to drain to the bilge will help.
            > > Presuming the area is currently wet, it will not be possible to use epoxy to seal the end grain until it can be thoroughly dried. It will also may not be possible to seal the channel you make in the mast step from the hole to the bilge. Perhaps you can use some other materials to temporarily channel the water until you can effect more permanent repairs.
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > > Martin
            > >
            > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I recently purchased Sabre 36' 1990 and I am absolutely smitten with the boat. She is being stored "wet" with the mast up this winter. The boat has the classic mast step drainage issues as described in numerous threads most notably this:
            > > >
            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/message/34624
            > > >
            > > > Water from the mast is currently winding up in the shower pan.
            > > >
            > > > With the mast up what quick solutions can be done to stop the damage until the she comes out next fall for a rebuild ?
            > > >
            > > > Can I take a coat hanger and try to clear the drain hole in the bottom of the step using the mast cable exit hole for access?
            > > >
            > > > If I drill a 1/4" horizontal hole through the mast and mast step right at the bottom where the mast sits on the step (aft side) will the water drain here instead?
            > > >
            > > > Any other suggestions?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > Peter
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Jim Starkey
            I have no doubt that there multiple causes of the dreaded Sabre mast step disease (DSMSD -- an acronymic palindrome!). In my case, however, there was no
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 28, 2013
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              I have no doubt that there multiple causes of the dreaded Sabre mast step disease (DSMSD -- an acronymic palindrome!).  In my case, however, there was no external sign of rot.  The only two visible symptoms were some varnish lifting from the sole and a crack in the metal mast step casting.  The latter turned out to be definitive.

              As it turned out, the mast step box was rotten from the inside and the rot had spread under the sole to the main bulkhead.  I think if we had waited for rot to becoming visibly apparent, the structural integrity of the boat would have been compromised.

              A friend's sistership S36 had DSMSD the year before with approximately the same symptoms -- cracked casting, bulkhead invisibly but substantially rotted.

              Gene Barnes, Sabre surveyor extraordinaire, has opined that the root cause is usually an incompletely sealed limber hole drilled to drain the forward part of bilge and shower.

              I wouldn't quibble with better mast drainage, but the very best mast drainage possible isn't going to prevent a porous limber whole from rotting the sucker from within.

              Best of luck.  Not all boats of these vintages are worth repairing.  Sabres are.

              [My current boat is no wood below the solid teak and holly sole.  I'm a happy boy.]


              On 1/26/13 12:11 AM, Martin wrote:
               

              The symptoms you describe are similar to the problem we had with our 34. Turned out the limber hole under the mast step had been blocked at the factory by epoxy from one of the holes drilled for the mast step bolts.
              You might check to be sure the limber hole forward is clear.

              A drain hole in the mast step is OK but rot can start unseen if not sealed well. A trench on the top of the mast step is as functional and easy to inspect. If you really want to go first class you could have a stainless box built to stand the mast in. A tube from that could go into the bilge.

              Cheers,
              Martin

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for the ideas. This is an intermediate solution until we can haul the boat and pull the mast next fall. At that time I am planning to replace the support at the head threshold and the sole forward of the mast (at least). Will also install a properly sealed drain tube inside the step.
              >
              > For now I will drill the horizontal hole and create a channel. I will lightly seal the forward part of the mast at the step to encourage the water to exit through the aft hole. Also planning to put some wicks under the step leading aft to ensure no water is getting out forward through an existing limber hole.
              >
              > Peter
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote:
              > >
              > > The 1987 34II we have is probably similar to your 36. I would advise drilling the hole horizontally into the mast base and providing a channel in the mast base from the hole to the bilge. The issue is that water pools and soaks into the end grain of the plywood cabin floor. This wicks the water several feet from the mast step and eventually deteriorates not only the floor but also the adjacent bulkhead. So anything you can do to seal the end grain and provide a good channel for the water to drain to the bilge will help.
              > > Presuming the area is currently wet, it will not be possible to use epoxy to seal the end grain until it can be thoroughly dried. It will also may not be possible to seal the channel you make in the mast step from the hole to the bilge. Perhaps you can use some other materials to temporarily channel the water until you can effect more permanent repairs.
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > > Martin
              > >
              > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "pbfein" wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I recently purchased Sabre 36' 1990 and I am absolutely smitten with the boat. She is being stored "wet" with the mast up this winter. The boat has the classic mast step drainage issues as described in numerous threads most notably this:
              > > >
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/message/34624
              > > >
              > > > Water from the mast is currently winding up in the shower pan.
              > > >
              > > > With the mast up what quick solutions can be done to stop the damage until the she comes out next fall for a rebuild ?
              > > >
              > > > Can I take a coat hanger and try to clear the drain hole in the bottom of the step using the mast cable exit hole for access?
              > > >
              > > > If I drill a 1/4" horizontal hole through the mast and mast step right at the bottom where the mast sits on the step (aft side) will the water drain here instead?
              > > >
              > > > Any other suggestions?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Peter
              > > >
              > >
              >


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