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Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Boat Insurance

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  • Jim Starkey
    Agreed value is agreed value, but there are catches. One is that an insurer who agrees to a value substantially above market value is exposed to potential
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 6, 2013
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      Agreed value is agreed value, but there are catches.  One is that an insurer who agrees to a value substantially above market value is exposed to potential wrong-doing.  Another, more subtle, is that an insurer agreeing to a value substantially lower than market value can argue that they are on the hook for no more than a pro-rata proportion of repairs on a vessel insured for less than full market value.

      Bottom line:  Gamesmanship in either direction is bad for both parties.

      The real problem is the gap between "market value" and replacement value.  For production boats, like Sabres, the gap should be insignificant.  For "classic" sailboats, Concordias, for example, the gap can be large.

      A "good" insurance broker should explain this and negotiate with the carriers for a decent rate.  A lazy broker will take the first offer from the carrier, pocket the commission, and stick you for the premium.

      I've dealt with both lazy and excellent brokers for both marine and airplane insurance.  The difference is easily 50%.  Relatively recently I suggested to my marine broker that I was going to look around.  Without batting an eyelash, he "cut" my premium 20%.  I should have asked him to make it retroactive (not a chance).

      The big difference in insurance costs are with the broker, not the carrier.  Pushing back is the first resort.  Finding a different broker comes next.

      On 1/6/2013 10:14 PM, Martin wrote:
       

      We have a 1987 S34II insured with Boat US and note that several others with similar boats carry much higher declared value. Is there any point in having a higher value that the amount you'd receive on sale of the boat? We originally carried 70K based on what we bought her for. It has been ten years and I recently reduced the value to 60K to reflect an optimistic sale price based on similar sales reported by a local broker. Did I screw up?

      Cheers,
      Martin

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse wrote:
      >
      > Sometimes it appears that they use a dart board rather than actuarial
      > tables when setting premiums.
      >
      > Brooks Wright wrote:
      > >
      > > That's about half what they quoted me a year ago. I don't get it.
      > >
      > > Brooks Wright
      > >
      > > *From:* Charles Sidwa
      > > *To:* "Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com"
      > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:31 PM
      > > *Subject:* Re: [SabreSailboat] Boat Insurance
      > >
      > > I'm on Lake Ontario, have a 1989 34 MKII with an agreed value of 88k
      > > and pay about $540.00 for a full year which is about 3 months of
      > > sailing for me. Oh, BoatUS and that is the new premium I just got in
      > > the mail a few days ago. Charlie
      > > Sent from my iPad
      > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:30 PM, "Dave Lochner"
      > > wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Alan,
      > >>
      > >> I insure my car and home through USAA, but when I talked to them
      > >> about boat insurance, the policy wasn't very good. Basically they
      > >> treated a boat like a care and would depreciate the value of the
      > >> boat. I think it was Harry who pointed out the other deficiencies of
      > >> the USAA policy.
      > >>
      > >> BoatUS has been my insurer since 1984 and I've been happy with them.
      > >> The two claims I filed were handled well.
      > >>
      > >> A few years ago 2 boats in Oswego broke free of their moorings, one
      > >> insured by BoatUS and one by another carrier. BoatUS arranged for
      > >> salvage of both boats, had them stored and paid the claim promptly.
      > >> It took a long time for the other boat owner to resolve his claim
      > >> with his company and he was not satisfied. Basically, he got very
      > >> little for his boat.
      > >>
      > >> Dave
      > >>
      > >> On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:11 AM, Alan Pressman wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>> One thing I have seen recently is that some policies are being
      > >>> offered (and written) with an "exclusion for a named storm". Sounds
      > >>> to me like no coverage when it is most needed. Other policies
      > >>> double the deductible during a named storm.
      > >>>
      > >>> It is really hard to compare insurance rates on an "apples to
      > >>> apples" basis, given the variations in what is actually covered.
      > >>>
      > >>> My premium is through USAA and is written at Progressive. I
      > >>> converted from a low declared value this year and to a market value
      > >>> (which I think is a little higher value) for coverage, and actually
      > >>> got a slight reduction. But here in FL on a mooring 12 mos of the
      > >>> year it costs me about $1100. I got them to add on Bahamas coverage
      > >>> up to 125 miles from the USA. There was no surcharge for this added
      > >>> coverage. I hope to use it again this year.
      > >>>
      > >>> Alan
      > >>> Windswept S 34 #430
      > >>> Sarasota, FL
      > >>>
      > >>> On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Dan Trainor
      >>> > wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>> Yeah, you can't actually compare premiums without considering
      > >>> the specific terms of insurance agreement. Saying you pay $500.
      > >>> with ABC co and I got a quote for $1000. from XYZ co. seems to
      > >>> suggest that ABC is the better deal. But, how would you
      > >>> actually know unless you study the terms of the policy wrt to
      > >>> coverage terms / claims. Will/Can it be a better deal when you
      > >>> need to make a claim? Maybe, Maybe Not.
      > >>> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, john kalinowski
      > >>> > wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>> Make sure you are comparing coverage.
      > >>>
      > >>> the major things is to look for are:
      > >>>
      > >>> AGREED TO VALUE
      > >>> and
      > >>> ALL PERILS
      > >>>
      > >>> without those 2 terms, finding marine insurance at half
      > >>> price is easy.
      > >>>
      > >>> Policies with those terms cost twice as much because it is
      > >>> worth it.
      > >>> There are explainations in the thread if you wish to check.
      > >>>
      > >>> Regards
      > >>>
      > >>> john--- On *Fri, 1/4/13, DAVID LOCHNER /
      >>> >/* wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>> From: DAVID LOCHNER
      >>> >
      > >>> Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Boat Insurance
      > >>> To: "Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      > >>> "
      > >>>
      >>> >
      > >>> Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 7:08 PM
      > >>>
      > >>> One other thought, insurance rates are also based on
      > >>> credit ratings and driving records. Bad or weak credit
      > >>> means higher premiums. Bad driving records do the same.
      > >>> A DWI will drive your premium through the roof.
      > >>> DaveSent from my iPad
      > >>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:57 PM, sailaway0608
      > >>>
      >>> >
      > >>> wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Received an email with the quote from Boat US.
      > >>>> $1150.00. It took a few minutes for me to get up off
      > >>>> the floor, but when I did, I deleted all correspondence
      > >>>> from them. Guess I shouldn't be complaining about the
      > >>>> ACE premium.Well, now I know I have a fair deal and
      > >>>> will continue with ACE.Thanks all for your input. It's
      > >>>> always nice to hear what others in the same boat (no
      > >>>> pun intended) have to say.Rich1986 Sabre 36lake
      > >>>> Champlain, VT--- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      > >>>> ,
      > >>>> Mike1 <195162@> wrote:>> You guys are doing well. I
      > >>>> had a 1978 28' MKII with hull value of $19,200 and was
      > >>>> paying $550 with BoatUS in NJ. Now they are paying in
      > >>>> full because Sandy totaled the boat.> > Mike> > > -----
      > >>>> Original Message ----- > From: Dave Lochner > To:
      > >>>> Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      > >>>>
      > >>>> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:29 AM> Subject: Re:
      > >>>> [SabreSailboat] Boat Insurance> > > > > > > > > I don't
      > >>>> have the exact amount, but my insurance runs about $300
      > >>>> a year with Boat/US for a 81 S30 Agreed Hull Value at
      > >>>> $27K. Located in Oswego, NY on Lake Ontario. The cost
      > >>>> has remained pretty stable over the years, except for
      > >>>> the one year after I filed a large claim. One year I
      > >>>> accidentally let the policy lapse for about a week past
      > >>>> the renewal date. They had to reissue the policy and it
      > >>>> was cheaper than the initial renewal rate. Service has
      > >>>> been good.> > > Picking up on another thread, BoatUS
      > >>>> insurance publishes Seaworthy a magazine that deals
      > >>>> with boating safety. The magazine provides good insight
      > >>>> in the causes of some boating accidents and claims.
      > >>>> Comes free with the insurance. I think you can
      > >>>> subscribe at BoatUS website if you insure with someone
      > >>>> else.> > > Dave> > > > > > On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:22 AM,
      > >>>> sailaway0608 wrote:> > > > I currently have a 1986
      > >>>> Sabre 36 and have noticed that my Insurance premiums
      > >>>> have been going up each year. I just received my new
      > >>>> new renewal and its up about 15% to $743. It takes into
      > >>>> account a "Lay-Up Period" from Nov 1 - Apr 19. It's
      > >>>> with Ace Recreational Marine Insurance and never had a
      > >>>> claim.> > My question is, is this expensive?? What do
      > >>>> others pay and maybe some suggestions for other
      > >>>> carriers??> > Any help would be appreciated.> > Rich
      > >>>> Gottlieb> Lake Champlain, VT>
      > >>>
      > >>> -- Dan
      > >>>
      > >>> -- Alan Pressman**941-350-1559alanpressman@...
      > >>>
      > >>> skype: alan.pressman
      > >
      >


    • Ken Young
      I use Acadia for my 1980 30 and have for the past 13 years sailing mid-coast Maine.  This year s premium for an Agreed Value policy was up from $458 in
      Message 42 of 42 , Mar 5 8:38 AM
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        I use Acadia for my 1980 30' and have for the past 13 years sailing mid-coast Maine.  This year's premium for an "Agreed Value" policy was up from $458 in 2013 (where it had been since at least 2008) to $614, up 34%.  No claims since 2001 and on a different boat.
         
        I figured it is attributable to Sandy.
         
        Ken Young
         

        From: Jim Starkey <jim@...>
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:45 AM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Boat Insurance

        We've had Ace for a fair number of years with no claims.  Despite that,
        the renewal price came back last week that made our insurance broker
        blush and suggest it was time to look at alternatives.  So brace yourself.

        On 3/5/2014 9:53 AM, Steven Fein wrote:
        > I have been interested in this thread. After hearing the who is cheapest debate I decided to match my insurance with GEICO as the cheapest option.
        > I have a 84’ 38MK 1 sailing the coast of Maine.. I lined up all the variables and my ins came out $100 cheaper than GEICO.My co is ACE, being one of the largest boat insurance co.Got mine through Globe marine ins. I did have a claim 8 years ago when I have stand failure and have nothing but positive things to say about how it was handled.
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo Groups Links
        >
        >
        >



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