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Re: barrier coat

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  • sailor11767
    Interesting value question. Many folks the world over have spent fortunes repairing blisters (or just plain scrapped bad cases). I m sure every one of them
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 5, 2012
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      Interesting "value" question. Many folks the world over have spent fortunes repairing blisters (or just plain scrapped bad cases). I'm sure every one of them wishes someone earlier in line had barrier coated their boat.

      But here's the question. Many of our boats are 20-30 years old. While we may have caked on bottom paint that warrants a blasting job, one has to wonder if there is any value to the barrier coat. Will a boat decide after 20 years to start blistering? Or have the boats that haven't blistered yet been tested by time and are immune?

      If I had a freshly blasted hull, I sure would be tempted to do it though!

      Harry

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
      >
      > If you have the boat soda blasted and you refair (or have refaired) the
      > strut and through hulls, a DIY barrier coat is literally just mixing &
      > rolling on 6 coats, assuming your yard allows it. Even though your 36
      > probably has a vinylester layer (86 & later), an epoxy barrier coat is a
      > really good idea if you've gone to the time and expense of soda blasting.
      > Pete
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:38 PM, mc1001@... <mc1001@...
      > > wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre
      > > 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get
      > > a barrier coat done too?
      > > Any thoughts?
      > >
      > > Thanks, JM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Dave Lochner
      The big selling point for barrier coats has been blister prevention and repair. A second reason is to provide a really hard smooth surface. Some of the gelcoat
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 5, 2012
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        The big selling point for barrier coats has been blister prevention and repair. A second reason is to provide a really hard smooth surface. Some of the gelcoat is likely to be damaged when the old paint is removed and the surface sanded in preparation for bottom paint. Applying 4-6 coats of IP 2000e will give you a hard surface that can be sanded smooth yielding a good surface for bottom paint. While I've read about and struggled with removing, some bottom paints can be hot coated on the barrier coat yielding a very smooth bottom.  Check out the Interlux site for more information. Their tech reps will usually respond quickly to any questions.

        Dave


        On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:02 PM, sailor11767 wrote:

         

        Interesting "value" question. Many folks the world over have spent fortunes repairing blisters (or just plain scrapped bad cases). I'm sure every one of them wishes someone earlier in line had barrier coated their boat.

        But here's the question. Many of our boats are 20-30 years old. While we may have caked on bottom paint that warrants a blasting job, one has to wonder if there is any value to the barrier coat. Will a boat decide after 20 years to start blistering? Or have the boats that haven't blistered yet been tested by time and are immune?

        If I had a freshly blasted hull, I sure would be tempted to do it though!

        Harry

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
        >
        > If you have the boat soda blasted and you refair (or have refaired) the
        > strut and through hulls, a DIY barrier coat is literally just mixing &
        > rolling on 6 coats, assuming your yard allows it. Even though your 36
        > probably has a vinylester layer (86 & later), an epoxy barrier coat is a
        > really good idea if you've gone to the time and expense of soda blasting.
        > Pete
        >
        >
        > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:38 PM, mc1001@... <mc1001@...
        > > wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre
        > > 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get
        > > a barrier coat done too?
        > > Any thoughts?
        > >
        > > Thanks, JM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


      • john kalinowski
        Dave is right on the money.   If you have the hull blasted, the bottom is a mess as they are going to cut though gelcoat no matter how hard they try not to
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 5, 2012
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          Dave is right on the money.
           
          If you have the hull blasted, the bottom is a mess as they are going to cut though gelcoat no matter how hard they try not to and they need to where you have real osmossis.
           
          4-6 coats done properly will leave a surface similiar to what it felt like coming out of the mold in Maine.
           
          I am now a believer in hot coating the bottom with your bottom paint.  I did this last year and the boat was faster because it was so smooth.

          --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

          From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 6:27 PM

           
          The big selling point for barrier coats has been blister prevention and repair. A second reason is to provide a really hard smooth surface. Some of the gelcoat is likely to be damaged when the old paint is removed and the surface sanded in preparation for bottom paint. Applying 4-6 coats of IP 2000e will give you a hard surface that can be sanded smooth yielding a good surface for bottom paint. While I've read about and struggled with removing, some bottom paints can be hot coated on the barrier coat yielding a very smooth bottom.  Check out the Interlux site for more information. Their tech reps will usually respond quickly to any questions.

          Dave


          On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:02 PM, sailor11767 wrote:

           
          Interesting "value" question. Many folks the world over have spent fortunes repairing blisters (or just plain scrapped bad cases). I'm sure every one of them wishes someone earlier in line had barrier coated their boat.

          But here's the question. Many of our boats are 20-30 years old. While we may have caked on bottom paint that warrants a blasting job, one has to wonder if there is any value to the barrier coat. Will a boat decide after 20 years to start blistering? Or have the boats that haven't blistered yet been tested by time and are immune?

          If I had a freshly blasted hull, I sure would be tempted to do it though!

          Harry

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
          >
          > If you have the boat soda blasted and you refair (or have refaired) the
          > strut and through hulls, a DIY barrier coat is literally just mixing &
          > rolling on 6 coats, assuming your yard allows it. Even though your 36
          > probably has a vinylester layer (86 & later), an epoxy barrier coat is a
          > really good idea if you've gone to the time and expense of soda blasting.
          > Pete
          >
          >
          > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:38 PM, mc1001@... <mc1001@...
          > > wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre
          > > 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get
          > > a barrier coat done too?
          > > Any thoughts?
          > >
          > > Thanks, JM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >


        • mc1001@rocketmail.com
          Thanks, everyone! JM
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 6, 2012
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            Thanks, everyone! JM


            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, john kalinowski <sabre32sailor@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dave is right on the money.
            >  
            > If you have the hull blasted, the bottom is a mess as they are going to cut though gelcoat no matter how hard they try not to and they need to where you have real osmossis.
            >  
            > 4-6 coats done properly will leave a surface similiar to what it felt like coming out of the mold in Maine.
            >  
            > I am now a believer in hot coating the bottom with your bottom paint.  I did this last year and the boat was faster because it was so smooth.
            >
            > --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
            > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
            > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 6:27 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > The big selling point for barrier coats has been blister prevention and repair. A second reason is to provide a really hard smooth surface. Some of the gelcoat is likely to be damaged when the old paint is removed and the surface sanded in preparation for bottom paint. Applying 4-6 coats of IP 2000e will give you a hard surface that can be sanded smooth yielding a good surface for bottom paint. While I've read about and struggled with removing, some bottom paints can be hot coated on the barrier coat yielding a very smooth bottom.  Check out the Interlux site for more information. Their tech reps will usually respond quickly to any questions.
            >
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:02 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > Interesting "value" question. Many folks the world over have spent fortunes repairing blisters (or just plain scrapped bad cases). I'm sure every one of them wishes someone earlier in line had barrier coated their boat.
            >
            > But here's the question. Many of our boats are 20-30 years old. While we may have caked on bottom paint that warrants a blasting job, one has to wonder if there is any value to the barrier coat. Will a boat decide after 20 years to start blistering? Or have the boats that haven't blistered yet been tested by time and are immune?
            >
            > If I had a freshly blasted hull, I sure would be tempted to do it though!
            >
            > Harry
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Peter Tollini <pete@> wrote:
            > >
            > > If you have the boat soda blasted and you refair (or have refaired) the
            > > strut and through hulls, a DIY barrier coat is literally just mixing &
            > > rolling on 6 coats, assuming your yard allows it. Even though your 36
            > > probably has a vinylester layer (86 & later), an epoxy barrier coat is a
            > > really good idea if you've gone to the time and expense of soda blasting.
            > > Pete
            > >
            > >
            > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:38 PM, mc1001@ <mc1001@
            > > > wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre
            > > > 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get
            > > > a barrier coat done too?
            > > > Any thoughts?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, JM
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Mike
            I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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              I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote:
              >
              > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too?
              > Any thoughts?
              >
              > Thanks, JM
              >
            • GRAHAM BROADHURST
              That is exactly what I did to my 34. Orange peel only appeared on the last coat of the day.  Then I sanded back and put on two more coats and antifoul It has
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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                That is exactly what I did to my 34. Orange peel only appeared on the last coat of the day.  Then I sanded back and put on two more coats and antifoul
                It has been 8 years now and each year it gets smoother and smoother
                Graham S34 Fearless

                From: Mike <mikecnewbury76@...>
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 9:59:26 AM
                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
                 
                I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37

                --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote:
                >
                > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too?
                > Any thoughts?
                >
                > Thanks, JM
                >

              • rmhunt41
                The first thing to do is to evaluate the condition of the hull s veil layer. If it s dry and there s no sign of hydrolysis or inadequate wet-out then a barrier
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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                  The first thing to do is to evaluate the condition of the hull's veil layer. If it's dry and there's no sign of hydrolysis or inadequate wet-out then a barrier coat would be redundant. The best barrier to water intrusion into a hull is a resin-rich veil layer. This principle is behind Sabre's DuraLam system.

                  If the laminate is either wet and/or there are signs of hydrolysis or inadequate wet-out the failed laminate should be removed. Then a new laminate should be applied by molding chopped-strand mat and a high quality resin together using a serrated resin roller. The primary purpose of the new laminate is to form a new resin-rich veil layer. Vinylester or polyester resin should be finished with polyester gelcoat (NPG ISO). Epoxy resin should be left unfinished.

                  Bob Hunt
                • Peter Tollini
                  Two Interprotect tricks: Use a short nap rollller to minimize orange peel Alternate white and gray coats so you can see where you ve painted Pete
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 7, 2012
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                    Two Interprotect tricks:
                    Use a short nap rollller to minimize orange peel
                    Alternate white and gray coats so you can see where you've painted
                     
                    Pete


                    On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Mike <mikecnewbury76@...> wrote:
                     

                    I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37



                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too?
                    > Any thoughts?
                    >
                    > Thanks, JM
                    >


                  • Bob Jenning
                    General question regarding a barrier coat.   How does one deal with the stands?  Do you put wax paper on the stands & move them around or go around them,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                      General question regarding a barrier coat.
                       
                      How does one deal with the stands?  Do you put wax paper on the stands & move them around or go around them, then go back to attack those areas?
                       
                      Bob

                      From: Peter Tollini <pete@...>
                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 6:25 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
                       
                      Two Interprotect tricks:
                      Use a short nap rollller to minimize orange peel
                      Alternate white and gray coats so you can see where you've painted
                       
                      Pete
                      On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Mike <mikecnewbury76@...> wrote:
                       
                      I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37
                      --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote: > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too? > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, JM >
                    • Richard Coerse
                      Bob. The boatyard where I have Early Light hauled will not let the boat owner move the stands, their personnel must move them (they say it is a liability
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                        Bob.

                        The boatyard where I have Early Light hauled will not let the boat owner move the stands, their personnel must move them (they say it is a liability issue) so be sure you check with your yard first.  I have not done a barrier coat but when I bottom paint, I paint around the stands, then the next day have the yard move them (they use wax paper when they reposition them) then I prep and paint where the stands were originally.


                        Dick Coerse
                        "Early Light"
                        1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                        Solomons, MD



                        Bob Jenning wrote:
                         
                        General question regarding a barrier coat.
                         
                        How does one deal with the stands?  Do you put wax paper on the stands & move them around or go around them, then go back to attack those areas?
                         
                        Bob

                        From: Peter Tollini <pete@...>
                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 6:25 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
                         
                        Two Interprotect tricks:
                        Use a short nap rollller to minimize orange peel
                        Alternate white and gray coats so you can see where you've painted
                         
                        Pete
                        On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Mike <mikecnewbury76@...> wrote:
                         
                        I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37
                        --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote: > > A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too? > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, JM >

                      • Peter Tollini
                        If your yard will not let you move stands, then paint around the stands with each coat about 1 further out. When you ve gotten all barrier coats on, do your
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 8, 2012
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                          If your yard will not let you move stands, then paint around the stands with each coat about 1" further out. When you've gotten all barrier coats on, do your bottom paint.  Do the first coat "hot" while the last barrier coat is tacky, but firm enough the show a fingerprint.
                          Subsequent coats usually need 24 hrs drying time, but check the label. When done, have the yard move the stands, sand the eges of the barrier around the bare spots, and do your barrier coats and bottom paint.
                          The good news is you can do a coat of Interprotect every 3-4 hours at 70 degrees.
                          Pete


                          On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@...> wrote:
                          Bob.

                          The boatyard where I have Early Light hauled will not let the boat owner move the stands, their personnel must move them (they say it is a liability issue) so be sure you check with your yard first.  I have not done a barrier coat but when I bottom paint, I paint around the stands, then the next day have the yard move them (they use wax paper when they reposition them) then I prep and paint where the stands were originally.


                          Dick Coerse
                          "Early Light"
                          1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                          Solomons, MD



                          Bob Jenning wrote:
                           
                          General question regarding a barrier coat.
                           
                          How does one deal with the stands?  Do you put wax paper on the stands & move them around or go around them, then go back to attack those areas?
                           
                          Bob

                          From: Peter Tollini <pete@...>
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 6:25 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: barrier coat
                           
                          Two Interprotect tricks:
                          Use a short nap rollller to minimize orange peel
                          Alternate white and gray coats so you can see where you've painted
                           
                          Pete
                          On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Mike <mikecnewbury76@...> wrote:
                           
                          I soda blasted the bottom of my Sabre 402 and then put on 6 coats of interprotect followed by two coats of antifouling. Its now 5 years old and except for one repeat antifouling it has been great. It is worth alternating colours of the paints so that when sanding you can see the thin spots. The hardest work was sanding the interprotect after to make a smooth bottom as it "orange peeled" on application. I think it well worth the cost an effort. Your bottom should be fine for years. Mike S 402 #37
                          --- In mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com, "mc1001@..." <mc1001@...> wrote:>> A quick question about barrier coats: I am probably going to have my Sabre 36 soda blasted. Is it a missed opportunity not (because of expense) to get a barrier coat done too? > Any thoughts?> > Thanks, JM>


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