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Raw water pump prime

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  • Dave Evans
    bekers, This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our 34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of water. I run
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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      'bekers,

      This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
      34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
      water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
      necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
      of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
      untouched.

      Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
      other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
      SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
      the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
      the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

      Thx,
      dge
    • Carter Brey
      Dave, I don t know why you re losing your prime, but the easy way around is simply to pour the antifreeze into the same tub (or bucket, in my case) as the
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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        Dave,

        I don't know why you're losing your prime, but the easy way around is simply to pour the antifreeze into the same tub (or bucket, in my case) as the water, a moment before the last of the water goes up the hose. That's how I've always done it.

        Another difference (although i don't see why this should make a difference) is that instead of disconnecting the intake hose from the seacock, I disconnect its other end from the seawater strainer and attach a six-foot length of 3/4" house there. That's long enough to reach the gallery sink, which is where I put my bucket. It also makes it possible to pump the remaining fresh water from the tank into the bucket, so that it gets used for engine flushing rather than just pumped out onto the ground when I winterize the fresh water system.

        Best regards,
        Carter

        On Nov 4, 2012 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:
         

        'bekers,

        This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
        34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
        water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
        necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
        of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
        untouched.

        Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
        other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
        SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
        the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
        the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

        Thx,
        dge

      • JOHN CALLIS
        I do the same procedure with my 34-II with one exception. I use a 5 gallon bucket that I continuously fill with water. When I m ready for the pink stuff I
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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          I do the same procedure with my 34-II with one exception.  I use a 5 gallon bucket that I continuously fill with water.  When I'm ready for the pink stuff I turn the hose off and just as the bucket is about to run dry of water I dump the pink stuff into the bucket so there is never any time that I am sucking air.

          Additionally, I do not use the hose from the sea cock to the stainer.  I take the hose off of the sea strainer and use a longer hose from the bucket to the strainer.  The longer hose allows me to place a large bucket on the sole with plenty of slack.

          John
          S34 MKII 


          On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Dave Evans wrote:

             'bekers,

          This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
          34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
          water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
          necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
          of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
          untouched.

          Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
          other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
          SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
          the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
          the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

          Thx,
          dge

        • Mike Merriman
          ditto Mike Merriman From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN CALLIS Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 4:53 PM
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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            ditto

             

            Mike Merriman

             

            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN CALLIS
            Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 4:53 PM
            To: sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Raw water pump prime

             

             

            I do the same procedure with my 34-II with one exception.  I use a 5 gallon bucket that I continuously fill with water.  When I'm ready for the pink stuff I turn the hose off and just as the bucket is about to run dry of water I dump the pink stuff into the bucket so there is never any time that I am sucking air.

             

            Additionally, I do not use the hose from the sea cock to the stainer.  I take the hose off of the sea strainer and use a longer hose from the bucket to the strainer.  The longer hose allows me to place a large bucket on the sole with plenty of slack.

             

            John

            S34 MKII 



            On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Dave Evans wrote:

             

               'bekers,

             

            This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our

            34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of

            water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as

            necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container

            of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze

            untouched.

             

            Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many

            other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the

            SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what

            the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring

            the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

             

            Thx,

            dge

             

          • Charles Sidwa
            I find raising the RPM gets it to draw. Sent from my iPad
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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              I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

              Sent from my iPad

              On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

               

              'bekers,

              This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
              34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
              water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
              necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
              of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
              untouched.

              Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
              other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
              SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
              the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
              the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

              Thx,
              dge

            • Dave Evans
              Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Too dark to try now!
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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                Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Too dark to try now!

                On 11/4/2012 5:48 PM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                 
                I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

                Sent from my iPad

                On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                 

                'bekers,

                This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
                34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
                water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
                necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
                of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
                untouched.

                Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
                other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
                SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
                the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
                the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

                Thx,
                dge


              • mhrutstein
                The five gallon bucket is your best friend, filled with water initially (if you insist) and then antifreeze. Disconnect the hose from the raw-water thru-hull
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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                  The five gallon bucket is your best friend, filled with water initially (if you insist) and then antifreeze. Disconnect the hose from the raw-water thru-hull and stick it into the bucket.

                  On some boats I have owned, the hose from the raw-water thru-hull to the strainer was too long and forced me to hold the bucket at an angle. I solved this problem on my current boat by having a length of hose cut to the right length for reaching from the strainer into the bottom of the five-gallon bucket and no further.

                  When it's time to winterize the raw-water circuit I swap the hoses, fill the bucket with antifreeze, start the engine, and hit the kill switch as soon as the antifreeze is all drawn into the engine.

                  On a larger engine you may need to have a couple more gallons of antifreeze, already opened, standing by to replenish the bucket. But on your engine I bet that five gallons would be plenty. Once you have done this once or twice you'll know exactly how much you need.
                • s36_osprey
                  Dave - I had the same issue with the W27A on my 36 - Pump would lose its prime. I used a hose cut to length that fed the strainer from a 5 gallon bucket to
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 4, 2012
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                    Dave -
                    I had the same issue with the W27A on my 36 - Pump would lose its prime. I used a hose cut to length that fed the strainer from a 5 gallon bucket to winterize. Once the slug of air that invariably was in the hose hit the pump, the pump would no longer suck the anti freeze.

                    I also had a couple issues when sailing. After heeling hard on port tack, the pump would not pump when I started the motor. I would have to close the seacock, fill the strainer from the sink, then replace the strainer cover and reopen the cock to get the pump primed and running again. This was one real PITA. I believe the water inlet through hull was coming out of the water when heeled, and the inlet hose was draining into the sea. Again the air slug would hit the pump and no water would flow. I checked all the suspects, strainer gaskets etc, but none of those fixed it.

                    I took the pump off the engine and examined it closely at home over the winter. What I found was the back wall of the pump body was worn as deep as .035. Since my boat had come from the Chesapeak area, I've thought silt in the water may have eroded the bronze over the years (engine had ~2000 hrs on it).

                    I set the pump up on the lathe I have in my basement, and skim cut the back wall to (almost) clean up the uneven surface, then cut the flange face to bring in the drop so the impeller would fit correctly. I figured I would try to repair it before shelling out $400 or so for a new one.

                    This seems to have solved the problem. Pump primes itself without issue now.

                    You can see before and after machining photos in my photo album here:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sabresailboat/photos/album/894065054/pic/1927027962/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

                    I hope this helps.

                    Jim
                    S36
                    Osprey
                  • Dave Evans
                    Or throttle, anyway. Gave the lever a push and, OMG, the water level is dropping fast, shut it down! Put a cork in the hose, swapped it to the antifreeze
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 5, 2012
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                      Or throttle, anyway. Gave the lever a push and, OMG, the water level is dropping fast, shut it down! Put a cork in the hose, swapped it to the antifreeze bucket, started the 'beke up and slurp it was gone. Thanks much, Charles.
                      dge

                      On 11/4/2012 5:48 PM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                       
                      I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                      'bekers,


                      This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
                      34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
                      water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
                      necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
                      of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
                      untouched.

                      Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
                      other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
                      SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
                      the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
                      the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

                      Thx,
                      dge

                      __._,_
                    • Charles Sidwa
                      Learned this one from the mechanic at the marina. Sent from my iPhone
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 5, 2012
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                        Learned this one from the mechanic at the marina. 

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Nov 5, 2012, at 1:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                         

                        Or throttle, anyway. Gave the lever a push and, OMG, the water level is dropping fast, shut it down! Put a cork in the hose, swapped it to the antifreeze bucket, started the 'beke up and slurp it was gone. Thanks much, Charles.
                        dge


                        On 11/4/2012 5:48 PM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                         
                        I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                        'bekers,


                        This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
                        34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
                        water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
                        necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
                        of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
                        untouched.

                        Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
                        other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
                        SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
                        the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
                        the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

                        Thx,
                        dge

                        __._,_

                      • THOMPSON, GREGORY
                        I have experienced the same with our w33a on Kestrel. My buddy showed me the raise rpm method. A little scary at first but always works. I make sure the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 5, 2012
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                          I have experienced the same with our w33a on Kestrel.  My buddy showed me the raise rpm method.  A little scary at first but always works.  I make sure the strainer is filled with antifreeze as we raise the rpms.
                          I have had the same symptoms at launch and discovered the top on the sea strainer was not completely tightened.  Not sure why that reduced flow, but tightening it seemed to address the issue.

                          Greg T.

                          Greg Thompson
                          Physical Education Teacher
                          Longacre Elementary
                          34850 Arundel Street
                          Farmington, MI 48335-4003
                          (248) 426-4823
                          gregory.thompson@...

                          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Charles Sidwa [ChasSidwa@...]
                          Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 1:40 PM
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Raw water pump prime - Speed Indeed!

                           

                          Learned this one from the mechanic at the marina. 

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Nov 5, 2012, at 1:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                           

                          Or throttle, anyway. Gave the lever a push and, OMG, the water level is dropping fast, shut it down! Put a cork in the hose, swapped it to the antifreeze bucket, started the 'beke up and slurp it was gone. Thanks much, Charles.
                          dge


                          On 11/4/2012 5:48 PM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                           
                          I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

                          Sent from my iPad

                          On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                          'bekers,


                          This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
                          34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
                          water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
                          necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
                          of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
                          untouched.

                          Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
                          other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
                          SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
                          the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
                          the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

                          Thx,
                          dge

                          __._,_

                        • Dave Evans
                          Greg, Part of what puzzled me is that I ve not had the problem at launch. But perhaps rev and never notice the lack of exhaust water. Except when I look at the
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 5, 2012
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                            Greg,
                            Part of what puzzled me is that I've not had the problem at launch. But perhaps rev and never notice the lack of exhaust water. Except when I look at the bilge pump outlet and exclaim, there's no water coming out! And the riggers say, look at the other side of the transom.
                            dge

                            On 11/5/2012 1:50 PM, THOMPSON, GREGORY wrote:
                             

                            I have experienced the same with our w33a on Kestrel.  My buddy showed me the raise rpm method.  A little scary at first but always works.  I make sure the strainer is filled with antifreeze as we raise the rpms.
                            I have had the same symptoms at launch and discovered the top on the sea strainer was not completely tightened.  Not sure why that reduced flow, but tightening it seemed to address the issue.

                            Greg T.

                            Greg Thompson
                            Physical Education Teacher
                            Longacre Elementary
                            34850 Arundel Street
                            Farmington, MI 48335-4003
                            (248) 426-4823
                            gregory.thompson@...

                            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Charles Sidwa [ChasSidwa@...]
                            Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 1:40 PM
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Raw water pump prime - Speed Indeed!

                             
                            Learned this one from the mechanic at the marina. 

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Nov 5, 2012, at 1:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                             

                            Or throttle, anyway. Gave the lever a push and, OMG, the water level is dropping fast, shut it down! Put a cork in the hose, swapped it to the antifreeze bucket, started the 'beke up and slurp it was gone. Thanks much, Charles.
                            dge


                            On 11/4/2012 5:48 PM, Charles Sidwa wrote:
                             
                            I find raising the RPM gets it to draw.

                            Sent from my iPad

                            On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:32 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:

                            'bekers,


                            This happens about every other year while winterizing the W27 on our
                            34-II. I take the hose from the seacock and stick it into a tub of
                            water. I run that through for a while, adding water from a hose as
                            necessary. Then I take the intake hose out and stick it into a container
                            of antifreeze. And the pump no longer draws, leaving the antifreeze
                            untouched.

                            Certainly there is a moment when it's sucking air, but air gets in many
                            other times over a year. Cleaning the Groco strainer, changing the
                            SeaFrost zinc, certainly when changing impellers. Any thoughts on what
                            the problem is here? Or better yet, how to get past it? I tried pouring
                            the pink stuff directly into the strainer, but no go.

                            Thx,
                            dge

                            __._,_

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