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RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

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  • Ken Jenkins
    I don t know that you need teak cleaner unless there are black stains on the floor. I would probably use Simple Green or TSP. Note that TSP is very alkaline
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 10, 2012
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      I don’t know that you need teak cleaner unless there are black stains on the floor. I would probably use Simple Green or TSP. Note that TSP is very alkaline  and will bleach the color out of  the wood because it takes out the surface oil. If you use it, mask off the areas you are not cleaning, or you will have light spots on the other surfaces where the TSP solution splashed. Same would apply for using a teak cleaner. You don’t want it splashing onto other areas. You can carefully sand with 320 grit in a random orbit sander to level any raised grain after cleaning. Your first varnish coat should be thinned by nearly 1/3rd to act as a sealer. Give it at least 24 hours to dry. Second coat would be thinned 15%. Be sure to sand lightly between coats so the next coat bonds well and allow at least 24 hours between each coat. Also remember that varnish takes up to 30 days to completely cure. That means after you are all done, try to not walk on the sole with shoes for a week or so. For more detail you can consult Rebecca Whitman’s book the Brightwork Companion.

       

      Unless you have the boat in a heated area, it is probably too late this year to do the varnishing. It’s going to be much better to do next summer when you can have the boat opened up for ventilation while varnishing in warm conditions so the varnish will cure rapidly. If you want to experiment take the steps home when the boat is stored for the winter and work on them.

       

      Good luck, Ken

       


      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of penroset@...
      Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:34 AM
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

       

       

      This was a timely email as I was debating what to do with the sole of my 1988 Sabre 30 III.  Ken's answer was great.  Should I use teak cleaner to clean the surfface prior to using varnish?

       

      Duke

    • penroset@yahoo.com
      Ken,   Thanks for your help and knowledge.  I live in Honolulu so it is warm.  I tried Simple Green but it didn t appear to really clean the surface.  I
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 10, 2012
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        Ken,
          Thanks for your help and knowledge.  I live in Honolulu so it is warm.  I tried Simple Green but it didn't appear to really clean the surface.  I tried teak cleaner on an area under the chart table and it did lighten the color.  I was just getting ready to try the varnish when I saw your first response. I'll let you know how it turns out.
         
        Tom (Duke) Penrose
        Sabre 30 MKIII, 1988
         

        From: Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...>
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:25 PM
        Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
         
        I don’t know that you need teak cleaner unless there are black stains on the floor. I would probably use Simple Green or TSP. Note that TSP is very alkaline  and will bleach the color out of  the wood because it takes out the surface oil. If you use it, mask off the areas you are not cleaning, or you will have light spots on the other surfaces where the TSP solution splashed. Same would apply for using a teak cleaner. You don’t want it splashing onto other areas. You can carefully sand with 320 grit in a random orbit sander to level any raised grain after cleaning. Your first varnish coat should be thinned by nearly 1/3rd to act as a sealer. Give it at least 24 hours to dry. Second coat would be thinned 15%. Be sure to sand lightly between coats so the next coat bonds well and allow at least 24 hours between each coat. Also remember that varnish takes up to 30 days to completely cure. That means after you are all done, try to not walk on the sole with shoes for a week or so. For more detail you can consult Rebecca Whitman’s book the Brightwork Companion.
         
        Unless you have the boat in a heated area, it is probably too late this year to do the varnishing. It’s going to be much better to do next summer when you can have the boat opened up for ventilation while varnishing in warm conditions so the varnish will cure rapidly. If you want to experiment take the steps home when the boat is stored for the winter and work on them.
         
        Good luck, Ken
         
        From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of penroset@...
        Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:34 AM
        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
         
         
        This was a timely email as I was debating what to do with the sole of my 1988 Sabre 30 III.  Ken's answer was great.  Should I use teak cleaner to clean the surfface prior to using varnish?
         
        Duke
      • Dave Lochner
        Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. Dave ... Starbrite makes a
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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          Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 

          Dave


          On Oct 11, 2012, at 1:38 AM, penroset@... wrote:

           

          Ken,
            Thanks for your help and knowledge.  I live in Honolulu so it is warm.  I tried Simple Green but it didn't appear to really clean the surface.  I tried teak cleaner on an area under the chart table and it did lighten the color.  I was just getting ready to try the varnish when I saw your first response. I'll let you know how it turns out.
           
          Tom (Duke) Penrose
          Sabre 30 MKIII, 1988
           

          From: Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...>
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:25 PM
          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
           
          I don’t know that you need teak cleaner unless there are black stains on the floor. I would probably use Simple Green or TSP. Note that TSP is very alkaline  and will bleach the color out of  the wood because it takes out the surface oil. If you use it, mask off the areas you are not cleaning, or you will have light spots on the other surfaces where the TSP solution splashed. Same would apply for using a teak cleaner. You don’t want it splashing onto other areas. You can carefully sand with 320 grit in a random orbit sander to level any raised grain after cleaning. Your first varnish coat should be thinned by nearly 1/3rd to act as a sealer. Give it at least 24 hours to dry. Second coat would be thinned 15%. Be sure to sand lightly between coats so the next coat bonds well and allow at least 24 hours between each coat. Also remember that varnish takes up to 30 days to completely cure. That means after you are all done, try to not walk on the sole with shoes for a week or so. For more detail you can consult Rebecca Whitman’s book the Brightwork Companion.
           
          Unless you have the boat in a heated area, it is probably too late this year to do the varnishing. It’s going to be much better to do next summer when you can have the boat opened up for ventilation while varnishing in warm conditions so the varnish will cure rapidly. If you want to experiment take the steps home when the boat is stored for the winter and work on them.
           
          Good luck, Ken
           
          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of penroset@...
          Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:34 AM
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
           
           
          This was a timely email as I was debating what to do with the sole of my 1988 Sabre 30 III.  Ken's answer was great.  Should I use teak cleaner to clean the surfface prior to using varnish?
           
          Duke


        • Dan Trainor
          Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good. I have also used Daly s A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely. ... -- Dan Starbrite gel teak
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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            Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.

            On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
             

            Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 


            Dave


            On Oct 11, 2012, at 1:38 AM, penroset@... wrote:

             

            Ken,
              Thanks for your help and knowledge.  I live in Honolulu so it is warm.  I tried Simple Green but it didn't appear to really clean the surface.  I tried teak cleaner on an area under the chart table and it did lighten the color.  I was just getting ready to try the varnish when I saw your first response. I'll let you know how it turns out.
             
            Tom (Duke) Penrose
            Sabre 30 MKIII, 1988
             

            From: Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...>
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:25 PM
            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
             
            I don’t know that you need teak cleaner unless there are black stains on the floor. I would probably use Simple Green or TSP. Note that TSP is very alkaline  and will bleach the color out of  the wood because it takes out the surface oil. If you use it, mask off the areas you are not cleaning, or you will have light spots on the other surfaces where the TSP solution splashed. Same would apply for using a teak cleaner. You don’t want it splashing onto other areas. You can carefully sand with 320 grit in a random orbit sander to level any raised grain after cleaning. Your first varnish coat should be thinned by nearly 1/3rd to act as a sealer. Give it at least 24 hours to dry. Second coat would be thinned 15%. Be sure to sand lightly between coats so the next coat bonds well and allow at least 24 hours between each coat. Also remember that varnish takes up to 30 days to completely cure. That means after you are all done, try to not walk on the sole with shoes for a week or so. For more detail you can consult Rebecca Whitman’s book the Brightwork Companion.
             
            Unless you have the boat in a heated area, it is probably too late this year to do the varnishing. It’s going to be much better to do next summer when you can have the boat opened up for ventilation while varnishing in warm conditions so the varnish will cure rapidly. If you want to experiment take the steps home when the boat is stored for the winter and work on them.
             
            Good luck, Ken
             
            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of penroset@...
            Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:34 AM
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
             
             
            This was a timely email as I was debating what to do with the sole of my 1988 Sabre 30 III.  Ken's answer was great.  Should I use teak cleaner to clean the surfface prior to using varnish?
             
            Duke





            --
            Dan

          • Ken Jenkins
            _____ From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM To:
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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              From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
              Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

              I’d be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer. Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.

              Ken

               

              Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.

              On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

               

              Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 

               

              Dave

               

              .

            • penroset@yahoo.com
              Ken and all,   thanks for the tips.  I ll let you know how my test comes out.    Duke ________________________________ From: Ken Jenkins
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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                Ken and all,
                  thanks for the tips.  I'll let you know how my test comes out. 
                 
                Duke

                From: Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...>
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:11 AM
                Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                 
                 
                 
                From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                I’d be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer. Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.
                Ken
                 
                Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.
                On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                 
                Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 
                 
                Dave
                 
                .
              • Dave Lochner
                Earlier there was a comment about sanding between coats of varnish. Because polyurethane finishes have long cure times sanding between coats is not always
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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                  Earlier there was a comment about sanding between coats of varnish. Because polyurethane finishes have long cure times sanding between coats is not always necessary. If a polyurethane finish is recoated within 24 hours or so the new coat of polyurethane will chemically bond with the underlying coat. A chemical bond is superior to a mechanical bond. 

                  On the other hand, if there are imperfections, dust, drips, and runs a light sanding is necessary to provide a smooth surface. The best approach might be to build up 2 or 3 quick coats without sanding in-between and then a light sanding before the final coat to take out any imperfections in the underlying finish. This is basically the procedure that hardwood floor finishing guys use. 

                  Dave





                  On Oct 11, 2012, at 4:26 PM, penroset@... wrote:

                   

                  Ken and all,
                    thanks for the tips.  I'll let you know how my test comes out. 
                   
                  Duke

                  From: Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...>
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:11 AM
                  Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                   
                   
                   
                  From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                  I’d be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer. Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.
                  Ken
                   
                  Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.
                  On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                   
                  Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 
                   
                  Dave
                   
                  .


                • Dan Trainor
                  I got the idea of using Dalys A/B on sole veneer from Rebecca Whitman s Book. Thats what she actually recommends for soles. When I used it, it did not eat the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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                    I got the idea of using Dalys A/B on sole veneer from Rebecca Whitman's Book.  Thats what she actually recommends for soles.  When I used it, it did not eat the soft wood to any degree I noticed.  And you can control the brightening by the amount of time you let sit.  Then you clean off all very well and let it dry for several days.

                    On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...> wrote:
                     

                     

                     


                    From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                    Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

                    I’d be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer. Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.

                    Ken

                     

                    Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.

                    On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                     

                    Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 

                     

                    Dave

                     

                    .




                    --
                    Dan

                  • Ken Jenkins
                    You are correct sir. I wrote before thinking. I had in mind the 2 part cleaners like Teka where A is a strong alkali and the B is a neutralizing acid. _____
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 11, 2012
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                      You are correct sir. I wrote before thinking. I had in mind  the 2 part cleaners like Teka where A is a strong alkali and the B is a neutralizing acid.

                       


                      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                      Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:40 PM
                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

                       

                       

                      I got the idea of using Dalys A/B on sole veneer from Rebecca Whitman's Book.  Thats what she actually recommends for soles.  When I used it, it did not eat the soft wood to any degree I noticed.  And you can control the brightening by the amount of time you let sit.  Then you clean off all very well and let it dry for several days.

                      On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...> wrote:

                       

                       

                       


                      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                      Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?

                      I’d be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer. Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.

                      Ken

                       

                      Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good.  I have also used Daly's A / B which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.

                      On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                       

                      Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it is a gel much easier to control with little splashing. 

                       

                      Dave

                       

                      .



                       

                      --
                      Dan

                    • JohnF
                      Is there a reliable test to evaluate whether an area has been varnished vs. oiled? I have some areas, like the fold down table in the salon that seem to have
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 14, 2012
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                        Is there a reliable test to evaluate whether an area has been varnished vs. oiled? I have some areas, like the fold down table in the salon that seem to have a more open grain, which I expect are oiled. I have other areas, like the bulkheads, which seem to have more of a satin, sealed finish, and I wonder if they were varnished with polyurethane at some point. Given the age of the boat (25 years) and the relative good condition of everything (we have only owned the boat for a year), I expect some rework has been done at some point.


                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Jenkins" <kjenk3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > You are correct sir. I wrote before thinking. I had in mind the 2 part
                        > cleaners like Teka where A is a strong alkali and the B is a neutralizing
                        > acid.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                        > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:40 PM
                        > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I got the idea of using Dalys A/B on sole veneer from Rebecca Whitman's
                        > Book. Thats what she actually recommends for soles. When I used it, it did
                        > not eat the soft wood to any degree I noticed. And you can control the
                        > brightening by the amount of time you let sit. Then you clean off all very
                        > well and let it dry for several days.
                        >
                        > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Ken Jenkins <kjenk3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of Dan Trainor
                        > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:21 AM
                        > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Interior woodworks touch up, what to use?
                        >
                        > I'd be very reluctant to use a two part cleaner on interior veneer.
                        > Typically two part cleaners actually eat out a little of the soft wood
                        > leaviing the surface roughened. They are usually used on external solid
                        > teak. Star Brite Gel cleaner is quite good.
                        >
                        > Ken
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Starbrite gel teak cleaner is really good. I have also used Daly's A / B
                        > which is fantastic - it lightens the wood nicely.
                        >
                        > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Starbrite makes a gel teak cleaner. It is a one part cleaner and because it
                        > is a gel much easier to control with little splashing.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Dan
                        >
                      • scruz_loose2
                        I don t know of any tests that also are not potentially damaging to the surface, but I d be very surprised if your table was oiled and the bulkheads are
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 16, 2012
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                          I don't know of any tests that also are not potentially damaging to the surface, but I'd be very surprised if your table was oiled and the bulkheads are varnished. If anything, it would be the other way around. I suspect what you are seeing is raised grain due to repeated exposure to water (and probably soap) on the table, this will have the effect of raising the grain. If you look at other areas, such as the companionway steps or the teak panels near the galley, you'll probably see the same raised grain.

                          I'd guess the film on the bulkheads is an "oil" finish, but it still looks good because they are not getting wear and repeated water exposure. Even if it is varnish, that shouldn't be a problem.

                          Ken

                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "JohnF" <jl_folk@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Is there a reliable test to evaluate whether an area has been varnished vs. oiled? I have some areas, like the fold down table in the salon that seem to have a more open grain, which I expect are oiled. I have other areas, like the bulkheads, which seem to have more of a satin, sealed finish, and I wonder if they were varnished with polyurethane at some point. Given the age of the boat (25 years) and the relative good condition of everything (we have only owned the boat for a year), I expect some rework has been done at some point.
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