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Re: [SabreSailboat] High Pressure Floor Inflatables

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  • jack horner
    Dave  since i m from Florida  i would suggest you look at these boats.. the Morgan s designed by Charlie Morgan  he used to build the out island series for
    Message 1 of 51 , Sep 1, 2012
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      Dave  since i'm from Florida  i would suggest you look at these boats.. the Morgan's designed by Charlie Morgan  he used to build the out island series for the Caribbean  Charter Market.  Just because they are old does not mean the hulls are weak !
      And the old Gulfstars are good too !
      Ya can't have to much  room inside..  just not deep draft..
       West coast florida boats are all shallow cause we have no deep water !Me i would stay away from the Catalinia's.  Now i like the Calibers  I know a guy who had one and have sailed it . was very solid ! Tartain has good track record, but i noticed the new ones have a volvo sail drive in them . I was shocked !!  Ha ! a modified outboard thru a hole in the deck.
      You should be looking at a old u haul box truck to schlep stuff to the boat. We all love our stuff don't we ? !!
      Older parents  yes we have my wifes mother 88 in our home she has just fallen and broken her hip  she in the hospital now..
       My wife knows a friend that runs a nursing home . Is were she will go for the time we are cruising ! All the best  Lee
      Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 7:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] High Pressure Floor Inflatables

       
      Lee,

      Thanks for the insights. We do not plan to leave the boat in the Bahamas. We would look for a marina in NE Florida up the coast to NC. I anticipate that there would be a lot of stuff to schlepp back and forth and not having to deal with shipping costs would be an advantage.

      We've been looking for boats for several years; some might remember our adventure with a Sabre 34 in the Boston area a few years ago. At this point we're still in the research phase and narrowing our choices. So far we have considered Tartan 37s and 34s, Calibers, Niagara 35s, Dickersons, and Sabres. Some other boats have caught our fancy for fleeting moments including a Catalina 38 (nice S&S design, but draft is too deep, btw, I know of a very well equipped C38 that is for sale), various C&Cs, and newer Catalinas. 

      On the short list are Sabre 34s and 36s and the biggest reasons they are on the shortlist are: I've owned one for 11 years and know how their built, and the knowledge and support on this list is extraordinary. If there is a problem, I know where to go. 

      There are a few obstacles to implementing our plan. The health of Susan's mother and my mother is a big issue; you'd think that at 60 years old your parents wouldn't be controlling your life, but sometimes they do. The other part of the plan is that we don't want to sell Identity Crisis, so cash flow is an issue until I retire.

      Dave


      On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:20 AM, jack horner wrote:

       

      Dave , I have friends that made that trip from Georgia to the Bahamas and had her pulled there for hurricane season in the Bahamas..The insurance company's  insist !
      If it were me and i had to leave my boat in the Bahamas   Would find a yard that would dig a hole with a back hoe so the keel  would fit into.  Least it can't fall off the jack stands in a hurricane !
      You should be looking for boats already. So you can work on it and get it cruise ready for your style..Or you can get one all tricked out !
       Better ask your broker first, sailors are dreamers !  all the best of luck ... Lee
      From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: High Pressure Floor Inflatables

       

      Retirement is just 22 months away for me and about a year of so longer for Susan. If things go as planned we'd like to sail out the St Lawrence and then down the coast and spend the winter in the Bahamas. Then, if we are still speaking to each other, put the boat on the somewhere for the hurricane season and return to update NY for the summer and early fall, before returning to the boat in the late fall or winter. 

      There are still some ifs in this plan, among them the health of our parents (a big issue), the health of our retirement accounts, and finding a suitable affordable boat to make the trip. 

      Dave



      On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:23 PM, navip11 wrote:

       
      congratulations Dave!

      Sounds like a great fit for you!

      You mentioned heading down south. Is this live aboard down south or week or so on and off?

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
      >
      > All,
      >
      > Thank you for your thoughts and advice on a new dingy.
      >
      > After considering your thoughts and my (sometimes) poor ability to delay gratification, I made a road trip to Defender on Friday and bought an Achilles HB-240LX. This is Achilles smallest RIB at 7'10". (In case anyone is interested, it is 300.5 miles from the Shell station across the street from Defender to my driveway.)
      >
      > My biggest concern about the HP floor was it's stability. I don't want to deal with the inherent instability of the dingy complicated by a soft floor. The HB-240LX won because of the hard bottom, price, light weight, and the motor I had was the recommended motor. The price was within a $100 of the HP I was considering, the weight was the same, and I didn't need a new motor. The boat is small enough that it should fit on the foredeck of my 30 and any other larger boat that I might buy.
      >
      > Additional concerns included being able row a RIB more efficiently and greater directional stability when planing. The boat is small, but then we cruise with just 2 adults. If at sometime in the future we have more than Susan and I aboard, we'll just make 2 trips to shore to get everyone where they need to be.
      >
      > Finally with respect to Jim's concern about the boat surfing into the stern of the mother ship, I think towing the dingy on the second stern wave instead of the first will take care of that problem. That's where we towed our old inflatable and it never caused a problem. If not, that big 16" inflated tube will cushion the blow.
      >
      > Again thanks everyone for their thoughts.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      >
      > On Aug 23, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Dave Evans wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I remember well being attacked by the rigid plastic dinghy in the Leewards some years ago. The air floors are tougher than one might think.
      > > dge
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPhone
      > >
      > > On Aug 23, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> I know many more former RIB owners than RIB owners. The primary issue is that a RIB in a following sea is a lot faster than a cruising sailboat...
      > >>
      > >> Founder & CTO, NuoDB, Inc.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Dave Evans <dave@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>>
      > >>> The lightweight RIBs are a nice idea if you don't need to roll them up. We roll our LSI-290 on the foredeck when on a passage. Doesn't block any vision, even from the hatch. Sometimes the 9'-6' length is good for schlepping provisions or four adults.
      > >>> dge
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>> On 8/23/2012 2:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>> The tubes on the LX240 are 16", the LX280 are 17".
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>> The high pressure inflatables in my size and price range were all about 16" so the tube sizes are about equal.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> That LX 240 is looking pretty attractive.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> Dave
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> One thing to look at is the size of the tubes. bigger is better.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> Allison
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 7:21 AM, Dave Lochner wrote:
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Well, AJ, there ya go making a mess of my thinking.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Took a look at the Achilles boats, the LX280 is out of my price range and I would probably need a new motor to boot.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> But, that LX-240, in the right price range, the same weight as HP inflatable, a 4HP outboard is all it needs, and it would probably fit on the foredeck if I didn't want to tow it.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> More deliberations…… If only Defender was closer.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Thanks,
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Dave
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:35 PM, navip11 wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> Hi Dave,
      > >>>>>>> As a fellow S30 gentlemen I wrestled with the same thoughts when we were looking 2 years ago.
      > >>>>>>> In hindsight I am SOO happy we went with an Achilles HB-LX280. It is a hard bottom (I know hold on!)but it is their "light" version. It doesn't have an anchor locker and is exceptionally light. There are handles on the stern and one at the boy, between myself and my significant other (who wet weighs in at 115) we have absolutely no problem moving it up and down the beach or the garage.
      > >>>>>>> The oars work well enough (when needed) and stow out of the way near the floor.
      > >>>>>>> It is maintenance free for me, aside from a wash and wax at the end of the year.
      > >>>>>>> I tow it without the motor attached on our 30 with minimal effort. We have an 8hp 2stroke that I take on an off the stern rail by hand, for us it's a great combo. Everything is light enough but yet enough to take off to a beach and plane (with 2 of us). I spent allot of time wrestling back and forth between the light hard bottom, the HP floor, and even a roll up aluminum floor that is offered. No offense to anyone who has a HP floor but every time I have to step across one on an overcrowded dink dock I'm thankful for my choice. I think if you're heading south something similar to this would be a great choice.
      > >>>>>>> I am in no way affiliated with Achilles or any other inflatable company. I just thought I might respectfully pass on my 2 cents!
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> Lastly, I just read about a folding hard bottom:
      > >>>>>>> http://www.achillesinflatables.com/boatmodels/rigidhulls/hb_fx/
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> That may or may not be of interest to you.
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> Specs at defender.
      > >>>>>>> http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|1794282|1794288&id=1786160
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> Good luck!
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>> AJ
      > >>>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      >








    • Dave Lochner
      Jan, Thanks for your comments. As will things boating, everything is compromise. The Achilles I bought seemed to be the best compromise, would have liked a
      Message 51 of 51 , Sep 30, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Jan,

        Thanks for your comments. As will things boating, everything is compromise. The Achilles I bought seemed to be the best compromise, would have liked a bigger boat and larger outboard, but cost and weight were a concern. At $2K for a new (2011) RIB, it was hard to pass up.

        WM and Achilles make a folding transom RIB. I liked the concept, especially for storing the boat, however, the cost factor ruled the Achilles out and the WM is a PVC boat. 

        Dave


        On Sep 29, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Jan wrote:

         



        Dave,

        Sorry I'm late to the discussion but I have not had time to keep up with this board lately. I'm sure you have done a good job with your research of inflatables, but seeing the problems with the Mercury boats experienced by other cruisers on the West coast of Mexico, I would never buy one. The seams do not hold up in the semi-tropical sun and the whole boat deteriorates, such that, one cannot just repair one seam. You are correct about the hypalon. I would not buy anything else. Again, it is the sun damage that causes me to say that. We're cruising with an Avon RIB with folding transome which is a great boat (8'-6") but unfortunately is no longer made. It maxes out with an 8 hp motor which we use. I realise you have made your purchase, but for others I can only say, when cruising, your dinghy becomes your car. Don't get too cheap when picking one out.

        Jan S-38 MkI "Capriccio"- Mazatlan, Mex.

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
        >
        > BCOH,
        >
        > My choice of Achilles was primarily due to size. No one else makes a Hypalon Rib that recommends a 4hp motor.
        >
        > I was also driven by budget. I have a 20 year old lightly used Nissan 5 HP that wouldn't run and I ran out of time trying to get it to run before we went on our cruise. So I opted for the MasterCard solution and bought a Merc 4HP 4 stroke literally the day before we left on our cruise. Breaking in the motor was a great excuse for cruising around the anchorages. When we returned and was disassembling the inflatable I realized how deteriorated the plywood transom was. This would be the last cruise for that inflatable without significant repairs. So, I needed a new dingy to go with the new motor I had just purchased.
        >
        > If I didn't have the constraint of a new motor and an unbudgeted expense for a new dingy, I might have made somewhat different choices. The combination of size, weight, recommended motor, a sale at Defender, having a free day to drive to Defender, and a weakened ability to delay gratification lead me to purchase the small Achillies.
        >
        > If I was less constrained by budget and having already purchased a motor, I would have considered a couple of other boats. From my perspective, Hypalon (now called CSM) is the way to go. It is heavier, but more resistant to UV an abrasion. My 20+ year old Seaworthy Hyplon still holds air and has been abused by leaving it in the sun, exposed to winter weather, and rolled up and left in the garage as a mouse habitat. (The mice liked the line securing the seat and tried chewing on a valve stem, but the valve stem wasn't to their liking.)
        >
        > With fewer constraints on my decision, I would also have considered Zodiacs and Mercury Hypalon RIBs. All three brands build good boats. I would not and did not consider a PVC boat because of durability concerns. Practical Sailor did a review a few years ago and the Mercury RIB got a best buy recommendation based on cost and performance.
        >
        > Achilles makes an interesting RIB model with a folding transom. WM has a similar model in PVC. If on deck storage is an issue, then this model (the FX series) may be something in which you are interested.
        >
        > Finally, after my RIB slide off the dolly onto my asphalt driveway, I realize that an important addition to the boat is one of those keep protectors sold to PWC owners.
        > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=37218&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50802&subdeptNum=50814&classNum=50816
        >
        > Good Luck,
        >
        > Dave
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sep 2, 2012, at 4:16 PM, bcoh_usa wrote:
        >
        > > Dave...glad you found the right rig for you. I've been following this thread closely as I'm ready to get my first inflatable and I'm now convinced that Hypalon/Achilles is the way to go.
        > >
        > > While this thread is still hot, I'd like to get feedback on the following -- what is the best overall size boat/motor pairing for 4, me/wife and two kids - one kid is adult size, the other one soon to be?
        > >
        > > It seems the Achilles LSI 290 at 9' 6" is a sweet spot size and calls for max of 8hp.
        > >
        > > I'm kind of leaning toward a 6hp Yamaha or 5hp Honda. Is the 5hp too small to push 4 adults in the 9 footer? Should I opt for 8hp motor?
        > >
        > > I'd like option of stowing on deck if needed, but that's not critical.
        > >
        > > Input and advice appreciated.
        > >
        > > Best...BCOH
        > >
        > > Ariel
        > > S32
        > >
        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, jack horner <captbluwater@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Oh Dave , Look at Endeavor's they built a 35 38 42 and a 33 i think .   Were built in Largo Florida , just up the street from Charlie Morgans factory . West coast florida all have shallow draft.
        > > > Â lee fla
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@>
        > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:07 PM
        > > > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: High Pressure Floor Inflatables
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > >
        > > > Retirement is just 22 months away for me and about a year of so longer for Susan. If things go as planned we'd like to sail out the St Lawrence and then down the coast and spend the winter in the Bahamas. Then, if we are still speaking to each other, put the boat on the somewhere for the hurricane season and return to update NY for the summer and early fall, before returning to the boat in the late fall or winter.Â
        > > >
        > > > There are still some ifs in this plan, among them the health of our parents (a big issue), the health of our retirement accounts, and finding a suitable affordable boat to make the trip.Â
        > > >
        > > > Dave
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:23 PM, navip11 wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > > >congratulations Dave!
        > > > >
        > > > >Sounds like a great fit for you!
        > > > >
        > > > >You mentioned heading down south. Is this live aboard down south or week or so on and off?
        > > > >
        > > > >--- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
        > > > >>
        > > > >> All,
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Thank you for your thoughts and advice on a new dingy.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> After considering your thoughts and my (sometimes) poor ability to delay gratification, I made a road trip to Defender on Friday and bought an Achilles HB-240LX. This is Achilles smallest RIB at 7'10". (In case anyone is interested, it is 300.5 miles from the Shell station across the street from Defender to my driveway.)
        > > > >>
        > > > >> My biggest concern about the HP floor was it's stability. I don't want to deal with the inherent instability of the dingy complicated by a soft floor. The HB-240LX won because of the hard bottom, price, light weight, and the motor I had was the recommended motor. The price was within a $100 of the HP I was considering, the weight was the same, and I didn't need a new motor. The boat is small enough that it should fit on the foredeck of my 30 and any other larger boat that I might buy.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Additional concerns included being able row a RIB more efficiently and greater directional stability when planing. The boat is small, but then we cruise with just 2 adults. If at sometime in the future we have more than Susan and I aboard, we'll just make 2 trips to shore to get everyone where they need to be.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Finally with respect to Jim's concern about the boat surfing into the stern of the mother ship, I think towing the dingy on the second stern wave instead of the first will take care of that problem. That's where we towed our old inflatable and it never caused a problem. If not, that big 16" inflated tube will cushion the blow.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Again thanks everyone for their thoughts.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Dave
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> On Aug 23, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Dave Evans wrote:
        > > > >>
        > > > >> >
        > > > >> > I remember well being attacked by the rigid plastic dinghy in the Leewards some years ago. The air floors are tougher than one might think.
        > > > >> > dge
        > > > >> >
        > > > >> > Sent from my iPhone
        > > > >> >
        > > > >> > On Aug 23, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@> wrote:
        > > > >> >
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >> I know many more former RIB owners than RIB owners. The primary issue is that a RIB in a following sea is a lot faster than a cruising sailboat...
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >> Founder & CTO, NuoDB, Inc.
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >> On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Dave Evans <dave@> wrote:
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >>>
        > > > >> >>> The lightweight RIBs are a nice idea if you don't need to roll them up. We roll our LSI-290 on the foredeck when on a passage. Doesn't block any vision, even from the hatch. Sometimes the 9'-6' length is good for schlepping provisions or four adults.
        > > > >> >>> dge
        > > > >> >>>
        > > > >> >>>
        > > > >> >>> On 8/23/2012 2:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>> The tubes on the LX240 are 16", the LX280 are 17".
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>> The high pressure inflatables in my size and price range were all about 16" so the tube sizes are about equal.
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>> That LX 240 is looking pretty attractive.
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>> Dave
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>> One thing to look at is the size of the tubes. bigger is better.
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>> Allison
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 7:21 AM, Dave Lochner wrote:
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> Well, AJ, there ya go making a mess of my thinking.
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> Took a look at the Achilles boats, the LX280 is out of my price range and I would probably need a new motor to boot.
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> But, that LX-240, in the right price range, the same weight as HP inflatable, a 4HP outboard is all it needs, and it would probably fit on the foredeck if I didn't want to tow it.
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> More deliberations…… If only Defender was closer.
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> Thanks,
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> Dave
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:35 PM, navip11 wrote:
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> Hi Dave,
        > > > >> >>>>>>> As a fellow S30 gentlemen I wrestled with the same thoughts when we were looking 2 years ago.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> In hindsight I am SOO happy we went with an Achilles HB-LX280. It is a hard bottom (I know hold on!)but it is their "light" version. It doesn't have an anchor locker and is exceptionally light. There are handles on the stern and one at the boy, between myself and my significant other (who wet weighs in at 115) we have absolutely no problem moving it up and down the beach or the garage.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> The oars work well enough (when needed) and stow out of the way near the floor.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> It is maintenance free for me, aside from a wash and wax at the end of the year.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> I tow it without the motor attached on our 30 with minimal effort. We have an 8hp 2stroke that I take on an off the stern rail by hand, for us it's a great combo. Everything is light enough but yet enough to take off to a beach and plane (with 2 of us). I spent allot of time wrestling back and forth between the light hard bottom, the HP floor, and even a roll up aluminum floor that is offered. No offense to anyone who has a HP floor but every time I have to step across one on an overcrowded dink dock I'm thankful for my choice. I think if you're heading south something similar to this would be a great choice.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> I am in no way affiliated with Achilles or any other inflatable company. I just thought I might respectfully pass on my 2 cents!
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> Lastly, I just read about a folding hard bottom:
        > > > >> >>>>>>> http://www.achillesinflatables.com/boatmodels/rigidhulls/hb_fx/
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> That may or may not be of interest to you.
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> Specs at defender.
        > > > >> >>>>>>> http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|215570|1794282|1794288&id=1786160
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> Good luck!
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>> AJ
        > > > >> >>>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>>
        > > > >> >>>>
        > > > >> >>>
        > > > >> >>>
        > > > >> >>
        > > > >> >
        > > > >> >
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >


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