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Canal Trip Advice

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  • Bruce
    A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either
    Message 1 of 20 , May 19, 2012
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      A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
      Thanks,
      Bruce
      1982 Sa34 MKI
      PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
    • Dave Lochner
      Bruce, The Trent Severn is probably not a good option unless your friend enjoys motoring long distances. So the options are staying on the Erie Canal until
      Message 2 of 20 , May 20, 2012
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        Bruce,

        The Trent Severn is probably not a good option unless your friend enjoys motoring long distances. So the options are staying on the Erie Canal until Buffalo and then sailing from Buffalo or taking the Erie Canal to the Oswego canal and entering Lake Ontario and then sailing to St. Catherines, Ontario and taking the Welland Canal to Lake Erie. 

        Each route has pros and cons. Time wise the difference is probably fairly small, with the Erie Canal only route being may be a day or two longer. Those days are spent motoring through mostly flat country, not very interesting. The Erie/Oswego Canal route gets you out of the canal before it gets real boring and allows you to sail more.  Weather permitting, Oswego to St. Catherine's can be done in less than 24 hours of sailing which can save time. Travel on the Erie canal is restricted to pretty much daylight hours as the locks close sometime in the evening and open around 7 AM. (check the website).

        There is a charge for transiting the Welland Canal, however, I hear that it is quite an experience and worth the money for the experience if nothing else. Check You Tube for some videos.

        Finally, the Erie/Oswego Canal route will require clearing Canadian customs, which is remarkably easy if you have a passport and no felony convictions or no more than 1DWIs in the past 10 years. If you have either of these you will likely be turned away at the border. 

        If you friend has any more questions or he chooses the Erie/Oswego canal route have him contact me for more info.

        Dave
        S30 # 52 Identity Crisis
        Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

        On May 19, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Bruce wrote:

         

        A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
        Thanks,
        Bruce
        1982 Sa34 MKI
        PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!


      • Richard Peirce
        One additional thing to note is that your mast will have to be down for the Oswego canal. But from what I hear, there s always cold beers on Dave s boat when
        Message 3 of 20 , May 20, 2012
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          One additional thing to note is that your mast will have to be down for the Oswego canal. But from what I hear, there's always cold beers on Dave's boat when you make it to Oswego!  Might be the reason most people seem to take this route. 

          r

          From the iPhone of:

          Richard Peirce
          HACIENDA II, Toronto
          Sabre 34 mkII


          On May 20, 2012, at 7:32 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

           

          Bruce,


          The Trent Severn is probably not a good option unless your friend enjoys motoring long distances. So the options are staying on the Erie Canal until Buffalo and then sailing from Buffalo or taking the Erie Canal to the Oswego canal and entering Lake Ontario and then sailing to St. Catherines, Ontario and taking the Welland Canal to Lake Erie. 

          Each route has pros and cons. Time wise the difference is probably fairly small, with the Erie Canal only route being may be a day or two longer. Those days are spent motoring through mostly flat country, not very interesting. The Erie/Oswego Canal route gets you out of the canal before it gets real boring and allows you to sail more.  Weather permitting, Oswego to St. Catherine's can be done in less than 24 hours of sailing which can save time. Travel on the Erie canal is restricted to pretty much daylight hours as the locks close sometime in the evening and open around 7 AM. (check the website).

          There is a charge for transiting the Welland Canal, however, I hear that it is quite an experience and worth the money for the experience if nothing else. Check You Tube for some videos.

          Finally, the Erie/Oswego Canal route will require clearing Canadian customs, which is remarkably easy if you have a passport and no felony convictions or no more than 1DWIs in the past 10 years. If you have either of these you will likely be turned away at the border. 

          If you friend has any more questions or he chooses the Erie/Oswego canal route have him contact me for more info.

          Dave
          S30 # 52 Identity Crisis
          Oswego, NY/Lake Ontario

          On May 19, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Bruce wrote:

           

          A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
          Thanks,
          Bruce
          1982 Sa34 MKI
          PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!


        • Ken Jenkins
          I have brought a boat down from Toronto via Oswego-Erie Canal and have known people who went up the Trent Severn. Have also sailed in the North Channel of Lake
          Message 4 of 20 , May 20, 2012
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            I have brought a boat down from Toronto via Oswego-Erie Canal and have known people who went up the Trent Severn. Have also sailed in the North Channel of Lake Huron . I think the first question is really: How much time does he have to make the trip? If it is anything less than four weeks, have the boat trucked, it will actually be cheaper and easier, unless he likes motoring through the countryside. While the part of the Erie canal running in the Mohawk river is interesting, there is a long straight portion East of Oneida Lake that was really boring. No towns, no turns, hot and windless.

             

            Figure at least 3 days up the Hudson to Cohoes and the canal entrance. He can unstep the mast at Catskill, which will likely take a half day to get squared away. He’ll most likely be motoring most of the way on the Hudson as summer winds are light and he’s fighting current. The Erie Canal to Oswego will be 4 days. Add one day for the mast step/unstep plus contingency and you get minimum 8 days from LI Sound to Oswgo. It’s another day over to the entrance to the Trent Severn. The Trent Severn is going to be slow. Much of it has 6 mph speed limits and there are 45 locks, one of them a Marine railway. I’d allow a week to transit the Trent Severn. Which puts him at Severn 16 days after departure with a little over 500 nmi left to reach Chicago assuming he doesn’t make many detours. If he is not running at night, that is another week at least. I’d advise at the very least he go via the North Channel which is a gorgeous cruising area, although pretty sparsly populated. That will add  3-4  days, but be well worth it. So he arrives in Chicago after 27 days mostly spent motoring.

             

            If he has a couple months, that is a whole different story, and he can think about areas he wants to cruise along the way.

             

            Regards, Ken Jenkins

             


            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce
            Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:31 PM
            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Canal Trip Advice

             

             

            A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
            Thanks,
            Bruce
            1982 Sa34 MKI
            PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!

          • Neptune
            Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought
            Message 5 of 20 , May 22, 2012
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              Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.

              My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.

              The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.

              If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.

              I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.

              Bob

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@...> wrote:
              >
              > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
              > Thanks,
              > Bruce
              > 1982 Sa34 MKI
              > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
              >
            • Dave Lochner
              Looks like there is a beer route developing, beer in Oswego, beer in Rochester, maybe a stop in Toronto? Dave On May 22, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Neptune wrote: Bruce
              Message 6 of 20 , May 22, 2012
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                Looks like there is a beer route developing, beer in Oswego, beer in Rochester, maybe a stop in Toronto?

                Dave


                On May 22, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Neptune wrote:

                 

                Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.

                My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.

                The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.

                If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.

                I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.

                Bob

                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@...> wrote:
                >
                > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                > Thanks,
                > Bruce
                > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                >


              • Neptune
                Dave - I was typing to fast, I sailed on a S426 from Bermuda to Cape Cod. Regards, Bob
                Message 7 of 20 , May 22, 2012
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                  Dave - I was typing to fast, I sailed on a S426 from Bermuda to Cape Cod.

                  Regards,

                  Bob


                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Looks like there is a beer route developing, beer in Oswego, beer in Rochester, maybe a stop in Toronto?
                  >
                  > Dave
                  >
                  >
                  > On May 22, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Neptune wrote:
                  >
                  > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                  >
                  > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                  >
                  > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                  >
                  > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                  >
                  > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Bruce
                  > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                  > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                  > >
                  >
                • Richard Peirce
                  Beer (or perhaps rum) routes are preferred...Always cold ones here on Hacienda II in Toronto!! Having one in the cockpit now! r From the iPhone of: Richard
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 22, 2012
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                    Beer (or perhaps rum) routes are preferred...Always cold ones here on Hacienda II in Toronto!!

                    Having one in the cockpit now!

                    r


                    From the iPhone of:

                    Richard Peirce
                    CHOPPER PICTURES INC. 

                    Mobile: +1(416)822-3330
                    Studio: +1(416)466-7333

                    On May 22, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                     

                    Looks like there is a beer route developing, beer in Oswego, beer in Rochester, maybe a stop in Toronto?


                    Dave


                    On May 22, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Neptune wrote:

                     

                    Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.

                    My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.

                    The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.

                    If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.

                    I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.

                    Bob

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                    > Thanks,
                    > Bruce
                    > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                    > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                    >


                  • Bruce
                    I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I ve sent on to my friend. At this point he s still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he s heard lots of
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 28, 2012
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                      I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?

                      Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.

                      Bruce
                      Sa 34 MKI


                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Neptune" <vitesseiii@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                      >
                      > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                      >
                      > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                      >
                      > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                      >
                      > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                      > > Thanks,
                      > > Bruce
                      > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                      > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                      > >
                      >
                    • Dave Lochner
                      Bruce, The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 28, 2012
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                        Bruce,

                        The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have. 

                        If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them. 

                        People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.

                        Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in Oswego. Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.

                        Dave


                        On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:

                         

                        I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?

                        Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.

                        Bruce
                        Sa 34 MKI


                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Neptune" <vitesseiii@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                        >
                        > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                        >
                        > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                        >
                        > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                        >
                        > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                        > > Thanks,
                        > > Bruce
                        > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                        > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                        > >
                        >


                      • sailonset34
                        Dave, Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 29, 2012
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                          Dave,

                          Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26 from the Hudson to Chicago via the T-S. I've passed on your comments and she's wondering now about the trip across Lake Ontario. Her comments are:

                          "It seems to me that if you go along the shore (admittedly a lee shore), there are a number of places to duck into if things get ugly, and once you get northeast of the Prince Edward Penninsula, it should be fairly protected. Obviously it's not the most direct route, but I can't see why it wouldn't work if one were careful.

                          "I'm just not liking the idea of having to sail upwind on both Ontario & Erie (which is famous for its short, steep waves, and I especially don't like the idea of doing the Welland Canal, since I have no crew. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day we took Andrew & Lynette's boat through there, with four people on board."

                          May she contact you directly?

                          Thx,
                          dge

                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Bruce,
                          >
                          > The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have.
                          >
                          > If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them.
                          >
                          > People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.
                          >
                          > Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in Oswego. Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.
                          >
                          > Dave
                          >
                          >
                          > On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:
                          >
                          > I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?
                          >
                          > Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
                          >
                          > Bruce
                          > Sa 34 MKI
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Neptune" <vitesseiii@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                          > >
                          > > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                          > >
                          > > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                          > >
                          > > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                          > >
                          > > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                          > >
                          > > Bob
                          > >
                          > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > Bruce
                          > > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                          > > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Dave Lochner
                          Dave, Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I ve been to Kingston a bunch of times never did
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 29, 2012
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                            Dave,

                            Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                            Which ever route one takes there are trade offs. The T-S has numerous locks, and you have to cross the lake with the mast down, but you have a nice trip through the Ontario countryside and end up in Georgian Bay. It's the crossing the lake with the mast down that bothers me.

                            If you cross the lake with the mast down you have to have really solid mast cradles to secure the mast and the mast be strapped down really tight. If there is any swell the mast will start rocking and could fall off or injure someone. Second, you have no backup. If the motor fails, you're screwed. A good part of the trip is in the St. Lawrence Seaway shipping lanes, those guys don't stop. They've just travelled 1,000 miles at 10 knots and when they hit Lake Ontario it is pedal to the metal. A few years ago I broke down in the shipping lanes and there was no wind. I would have gladly welcomed 20 kts on the nose to get out of there. (fortunately we were with a group and I was towed for 4-5 hours behind a Columbia 26 with a 6 hp motor, it was a slow trip). With that said, there are people who have and people who will cross with their masts down. I won't be one of them.

                            Lake Ontario gets nasty when a strong cold front blows through and the winds go above 20. Most of us at the east end just don't go out in that stuff. However, those fronts are very predictable. Summer thunderstorms here are no worse than the Cheasapeake or Long Island Sound. There's enough Doppler radar around so you can see and watch them all day. They are relatively easy to avoid if you have a flexible schedule and a smart phone. 

                            The prevailing winds on the south shore of Lake Ontario are from the NW to SW and usually under 15 knots, mostly under 8-12. It makes for really nice sailing and if you have to motor up wind, it's not all that bad. Of course one of the jokes on Lake Ontario is that the wind is always on the nose, no matter which direction you travel. Last year on our summer cruise it was true. We headed north with a north wind, headed east and got an east wind, headed west and got a west wind and on the way home the wind was from the south.  But that's why god made the MD7A.

                            One other route to consider, especially if time is not an issue and traveling the T-S is a goal, is to continue up the Hudson and then take the canal to Lake Champlain and then to the St. Lawrence. It will be much more well protected than Lake Ontario, but, going upstream on the St. Lawrence can be slow going.

                            Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                            Dave



                            On May 29, 2012, at 4:37 PM, sailonset34 wrote:

                             

                            Dave,

                            Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26 from the Hudson to Chicago via the T-S. I've passed on your comments and she's wondering now about the trip across Lake Ontario. Her comments are:

                            "It seems to me that if you go along the shore (admittedly a lee shore), there are a number of places to duck into if things get ugly, and once you get northeast of the Prince Edward Penninsula, it should be fairly protected. Obviously it's not the most direct route, but I can't see why it wouldn't work if one were careful.

                            "I'm just not liking the idea of having to sail upwind on both Ontario & Erie (which is famous for its short, steep waves, and I especially don't like the idea of doing the Welland Canal, since I have no crew. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day we took Andrew & Lynette's boat through there, with four people on board."

                            May she contact you directly?

                            Thx,
                            dge

                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Bruce,
                            >
                            > The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have.
                            >
                            > If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them.
                            >
                            > People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.
                            >
                            > Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in Oswego. Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.
                            >
                            > Dave
                            >
                            >
                            > On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:
                            >
                            > I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?
                            >
                            > Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
                            >
                            > Bruce
                            > Sa 34 MKI
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Neptune" <vitesseiii@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                            > >
                            > > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                            > >
                            > > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                            > >
                            > > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                            > >
                            > > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                            > >
                            > > Bob
                            > >
                            > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                            > > > Thanks,
                            > > > Bruce
                            > > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                            > > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • Dave Lochner
                            Here s a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                               

                              Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.


                              Dave


                              On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                               

                              Dave,


                              Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                              Which ever route one takes there are trade offs. The T-S has numerous locks, and you have to cross the lake with the mast down, but you have a nice trip through the Ontario countryside and end up in Georgian Bay. It's the crossing the lake with the mast down that bothers me.

                              If you cross the lake with the mast down you have to have really solid mast cradles to secure the mast and the mast be strapped down really tight. If there is any swell the mast will start rocking and could fall off or injure someone. Second, you have no backup. If the motor fails, you're screwed. A good part of the trip is in the St. Lawrence Seaway shipping lanes, those guys don't stop. They've just travelled 1,000 miles at 10 knots and when they hit Lake Ontario it is pedal to the metal. A few years ago I broke down in the shipping lanes and there was no wind. I would have gladly welcomed 20 kts on the nose to get out of there. (fortunately we were with a group and I was towed for 4-5 hours behind a Columbia 26 with a 6 hp motor, it was a slow trip). With that said, there are people who have and people who will cross with their masts down. I won't be one of them.

                              Lake Ontario gets nasty when a strong cold front blows through and the winds go above 20. Most of us at the east end just don't go out in that stuff. However, those fronts are very predictable. Summer thunderstorms here are no worse than the Cheasapeake or Long Island Sound. There's enough Doppler radar around so you can see and watch them all day. They are relatively easy to avoid if you have a flexible schedule and a smart phone. 

                              The prevailing winds on the south shore of Lake Ontario are from the NW to SW and usually under 15 knots, mostly under 8-12. It makes for really nice sailing and if you have to motor up wind, it's not all that bad. Of course one of the jokes on Lake Ontario is that the wind is always on the nose, no matter which direction you travel. Last year on our summer cruise it was true. We headed north with a north wind, headed east and got an east wind, headed west and got a west wind and on the way home the wind was from the south.  But that's why god made the MD7A.

                              One other route to consider, especially if time is not an issue and traveling the T-S is a goal, is to continue up the Hudson and then take the canal to Lake Champlain and then to the St. Lawrence. It will be much more well protected than Lake Ontario, but, going upstream on the St. Lawrence can be slow going.

                              Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                              Dave



                              On May 29, 2012, at 4:37 PM, sailonset34 wrote:

                               

                              Dave,

                              Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26 from the Hudson to Chicago via the T-S. I've passed on your comments and she's wondering now about the trip across Lake Ontario. Her comments are:

                              "It seems to me that if you go along the shore (admittedly a lee shore), there are a number of places to duck into if things get ugly, and once you get northeast of the Prince Edward Penninsula, it should be fairly protected. Obviously it's not the most direct route, but I can't see why it wouldn't work if one were careful.

                              "I'm just not liking the idea of having to sail upwind on both Ontario & Erie (which is famous for its short, steep waves, and I especially don't like the idea of doing the Welland Canal, since I have no crew. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day we took Andrew & Lynette's boat through there, with four people on board."

                              May she contact you directly?

                              Thx,
                              dge

                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bruce,
                              >
                              > The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have.
                              >
                              > If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them.
                              >
                              > People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.
                              >
                              > Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in Oswego. Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.
                              >
                              > Dave
                              >
                              >
                              > On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:
                              >
                              > I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?
                              >
                              > Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
                              >
                              > Bruce
                              > Sa 34 MKI
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Neptune" <vitesseiii@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan. My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie. The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                              > >
                              > > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton, Ont.
                              > >
                              > > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                              > >
                              > > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester.
                              > >
                              > > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod. It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                              > >
                              > > Bob
                              > >
                              > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > > Bruce
                              > > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                              > > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >




                            • Ken Jenkins
                              If you go the route from Oswego to Presque isle and then the Murray Canal, then you are indeed going 60 nmi across the open lake. However, if you go the
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment

                                If you  go the route from Oswego to Presque isle  and then the Murray Canal , then you are indeed going 60 nmi across the open lake. However, if you go the other route through the Bay of Quinte you only have 33 nmi of open water until you pass near Long Point on Prince Edward, which has a very protected inlet with a dock in the park. After that you are travelling in protected waters. If you check both routes, you will find that Oswego to the entrance to the Trent Severn via the Murray Canal is about 70 nmi, the Bay of Quinte route to the canal entrance is 85 nmi. So you can trade time for safety if you are concerned. While I have not lived on Lake Ontario , I have spent some time sailing that area, and wouldn’t be concerned very much about weather windows other than if you are transiting in summer there is the chance of afternoon thunderstorms. The easy cure is to depart Oswego at 0 dark hundred hours. Personally, I’d probably go the route via Presque Isle.

                                Good luck,

                                Ken Jenkins

                                 


                                From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sailonset34
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:37 PM
                                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Canal Trip Advice and the T-S

                                 

                                 

                                Dave,

                                Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte ? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26 from the Hudson to Chicago via the T-S. I've passed on your comments and she's wondering now about the trip across Lake Ontario . Her comments are:

                                "It seems to me that if you go along the shore (admittedly a lee shore), there are a number of places to duck into if things get ugly, and once you get northeast of the Prince Edward Penninsula, it should be fairly protected. Obviously it's not the most direct route, but I can't see why it wouldn't work if one were careful.

                                "I'm just not liking the idea of having to sail upwind on both Ontario & Erie (which is famous for its short, steep waves, and I especially don't like the idea of doing the Welland Canal , since I have no crew. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day we took Andrew & Lynette's boat through there, with four people on board."

                                May she contact you directly?

                                Thx,
                                dge

                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > Bruce,
                                >
                                > The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing
                                w:st="on">Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have.
                                >
                                > If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing
                                company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them.
                                >
                                > People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've
                                been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.
                                >
                                > Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in
                                w:st="on">Oswego . Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.
                                >
                                > Dave
                                >
                                >
                                > On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:
                                >
                                > I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At
                                this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?
                                >
                                > Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
                                >
                                > Bruce
                                > Sa 34 MKI
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com,
                                " Neptune " <vitesseiii@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of
                                good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan . My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie . The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                                > >
                                > > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the
                                water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton , Ont.
                                > >
                                > > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is
                                tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                                > >
                                > > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in
                                w:st="on">Rochester .
                                > >
                                > > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from
                                Bermuda to Cape Cod . It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                                > >
                                > > Bob
                                > >
                                > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com,
                                "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long
                                Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                                > > > Thanks,
                                > > > Bruce
                                > > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                                > > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >

                              • Dave Evans
                                Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn t connect its usefulness for our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she s taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from the Hudson
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn't connect its usefulness for our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she's taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from the Hudson to Chicago, from where she'll have it trucked to Seattle. Over a couple of summers, she solo'd it from Boston to Maine and then up and most of the way around the Gaspe Peninsula.
                                  dge

                                  On 5/29/2012 5:58 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
                                   

                                  Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.


                                  Dave

                                  On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                  Dave,

                                  Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                                  Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                                  Dave
                                   
                                • Bill Blalock
                                  There is no way you want to be on any body of openness water with the mast down on a sailboat. The motion is horrible with the mast down; you will roll rail to
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    There is no way you want to be on any body of openness water with the mast down on a sailboat. The motion is horrible with the mast down; you will roll rail to rail in no time flat in any sea or chop. It is unsafe, imo. The mast inertia and lever arm have a huge dampening effect on the motion of the boat, even with the sails furled.
                                    Bill B

                                    On May 29, 2012 7:29 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn't connect its usefulness for our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she's taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from the Hudson to Chicago, from where she'll have it trucked to Seattle. Over a couple of summers, she solo'd it from Boston to Maine and then up and most of the way around the Gaspe Peninsula.
                                    dge

                                    On 5/29/2012 5:58 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                     

                                    Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.


                                    Dave

                                    On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                    Dave,

                                    Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                                    Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                                    Dave
                                     
                                  • Bill Blalock
                                    Open water. Dang autocorrect. I m sitting in an airport pecking on my phone. Bill B
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Open water. Dang autocorrect. I'm sitting in an airport pecking on my phone.
                                      Bill B

                                      On May 29, 2012 9:30 PM, "Bill Blalock" <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:

                                      There is no way you want to be on any body of openness water with the mast down on a sailboat. The motion is horrible with the mast down; you will roll rail to rail in no time flat in any sea or chop. It is unsafe, imo. The mast inertia and lever arm have a huge dampening effect on the motion of the boat, even with the sails furled.
                                      Bill B

                                      On May 29, 2012 7:29 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn't connect its usefulness for our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she's taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from the Hudson to Chicago, from where she'll have it trucked to Seattle. Over a couple of summers, she solo'd it from Boston to Maine and then up and most of the way around the Gaspe Peninsula.
                                      dge

                                      On 5/29/2012 5:58 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                       

                                      Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.


                                      Dave

                                      On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                      Dave,

                                      Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                                      Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                                      Dave
                                       
                                    • Jim Starkey
                                      Many years ago, the Boston Globe, well known for its many aggrecious typoes, bought a spelling corrector, followed shortly by an article entitled,
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 29, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Many years ago, the Boston Globe, well known for its many aggrecious typoes, bought a spelling corrector, followed shortly by an article entitled, "Invertibrate Mountain Climbers".

                                        A spineless headline, indeed.

                                        Founder & CTO, NuoDB, Inc.


                                        On May 29, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Bill Blalock <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Open water. Dang autocorrect. I'm sitting in an airport pecking on my phone.
                                        Bill B

                                        On May 29, 2012 9:30 PM, "Bill Blalock" <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:

                                        There is no way you want to be on any body of openness water with the mast down on a sailboat. The motion is horrible with the mast down; you will roll rail to rail in no time flat in any sea or chop. It is unsafe, imo. The mast inertia and lever arm have a huge dampening effect on the motion of the boat, even with the sails furled.
                                        Bill B

                                        On May 29, 2012 7:29 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn't connect its usefulness for our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she's taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from the Hudson to Chicago, from where she'll have it trucked to Seattle. Over a couple of summers, she solo'd it from Boston to Maine and then up and most of the way around the Gaspe Peninsula.
                                        dge

                                        On 5/29/2012 5:58 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                         

                                        Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.


                                        Dave

                                        On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                                        Dave,

                                        Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of times never did the Murray Canal route. 

                                        Yes, your friend can contact me off list.

                                        Dave
                                         

                                      • christopher
                                        Dave, I used to own a P26. Your friend should be careful about taking one anywhere with the mast down. We found in any kind of chop without the main up to
                                        Message 19 of 20 , May 30, 2012
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                                          Dave,
                                          I used to own a P26. Your friend should be careful about taking one anywhere with the mast down. We found in any kind of chop without the main up to steady things the outboard would come out of the water. If you put the main up even reefed it would slow the motion enough for the prop to bite. This was with a long shaft 9.9.

                                          Good luck,
                                          Christopher

                                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Bill Blalock <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Open water. Dang autocorrect. I'm sitting in an airport pecking on my phone.
                                          > Bill B
                                          > On May 29, 2012 9:30 PM, "Bill Blalock" <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > There is no way you want to be on any body of openness water with the mast
                                          > > down on a sailboat. The motion is horrible with the mast down; you will
                                          > > roll rail to rail in no time flat in any sea or chop. It is unsafe, imo.
                                          > > The mast inertia and lever arm have a huge dampening effect on the motion
                                          > > of the boat, even with the sails furled.
                                          > > Bill B
                                          > > On May 29, 2012 7:29 PM, "Dave Evans" <dave@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >> **
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Thanks all. When this thread started, I didn't connect its usefulness for
                                          > >> our friend, Marsha. Briefly, she's taking Resolute, her Pearson 26, from
                                          > >> the Hudson to Chicago, from where she'll have it trucked to Seattle. Over a
                                          > >> couple of summers, she solo'd it from Boston to Maine and then up and most
                                          > >> of the way around the Gaspe Peninsula.
                                          > >> *dge*
                                          > >>
                                          > >> On 5/29/2012 5:58 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Here's a link to the NOAA weather buoys and stations on Lakes Ontario,
                                          > >> Erie, and Huron. Those planning a trip might find the information useful.
                                          > >> http://www.erh.noaa.gov/buf/marine.htm
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Dave
                                          > >>
                                          > >> On May 29, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Dave,
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Either way, its about the same. Kingston, Ontario is 50 miles the
                                          > >> entrance to the Murray canal about 60. I've been to Kingston a bunch of
                                          > >> times never did the Murray Canal route.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Yes, your friend can contact me off list.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Dave
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Richard Peirce
                                          I ve sailed both the outside route around prince Edward County and the inside route through the Murray Canal many times. Going outside, you are much more
                                          Message 20 of 20 , May 31, 2012
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                                            I've sailed both the 'outside route' around prince Edward County and the 'inside route' through the Murray Canal many times.  Going outside, you are much more susceptible to bad weather. With the prevailing westerlies the waves get pretty stacked up on the east end of the lake. Especially as it narrows towards Kingston.  

                                            On the eastern sections of the inside route from Kingston to Picton, it can be pretty nasty as well. Its all great sailing with the mast up but with it lashed to the deck, I'd be a little concerned. If you wait for the right weather, it can be a mill pond. Wrong weather and you've got 10ft rollers stacked tightly together or worse).  

                                            The outside route is faster but nowhere to duck in and hide. Inside, you've got lots of places to duck in. There's some great little anchorages, good fishing not to mention a few pubs worth visiting!

                                            I'll be sailing the outside route from Toronto to the St Lawrence river in July and then back to Toronto via the Bay of Quinte and the Murray Canal. Cant wait!

                                            r

                                            From the iPhone of:

                                            Richard Peirce
                                            CHOPPER PICTURES INC. 

                                            Mobile: +1(416)822-3330
                                            Studio: +1(416)466-7333

                                            On May 29, 2012, at 6:11 PM, "Ken Jenkins" <kjenk3@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            If you  go the route from Oswego to Presque isle  and then the Murray Canal , then you are indeed going 60 nmi across the open lake. However, if you go the other route through the Bay of Quinte you only have 33 nmi of open water until you pass near Long Point on Prince Edward, which has a very protected inlet with a dock in the park. After that you are travelling in protected waters. If you check both routes, you will find that Oswego to the entrance to the Trent Severn via the Murray Canal is about 70 nmi, the Bay of Quinte route to the canal entrance is 85 nmi. So you can trade time for safety if you are concerned. While I have not lived on Lake Ontario , I have spent some time sailing that area, and wouldn’t be concerned very much about weather windows other than if you are transiting in summer there is the chance of afternoon thunderstorms. The easy cure is to depart Oswego at 0 dark hundred hours. Personally, I’d probably go the route via Presque Isle.

                                            Good luck,

                                            Ken Jenkins

                                             


                                            From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sailonset34
                                            Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:37 PM
                                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Canal Trip Advice and the T-S

                                             

                                             

                                            Dave,

                                            Are you speaking of the crossing from Oswego to the Murray Canal or around the back way to the Bay of Quinte ? A friend is planning to take her Pearson 26 from the Hudson to Chicago via the T-S. I've passed on your comments and she's wondering now about the trip across Lake Ontario . Her comments are:

                                            "It seems to me that if you go along the shore (admittedly a lee shore), there are a number of places to duck into if things get ugly, and once you get northeast of the Prince Edward Penninsula, it should be fairly protected. Obviously it's not the most direct route, but I can't see why it wouldn't work if one were careful.

                                            "I'm just not liking the idea of having to sail upwind on both Ontario & Erie (which is famous for its short, steep waves, and I especially don't like the idea of doing the Welland Canal , since I have no crew. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day we took Andrew & Lynette's boat through there, with four people on board."

                                            May she contact you directly?

                                            Thx,
                                            dge

                                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Bruce,
                                            >
                                            > The problem with the Trent Severn is crossing Lake Ontario with the mast down. The trip from Oswego to the T-S is about 60 miles of open water. If you get lucky with the weather window and get a good high pressure system, no problem, but finding a 15 hour window will mean spending a lot of time at the dock waiting. I've crossed the lake a lot over the years, but always with a mast up, I wouldn't consider doing it with the mast down, although others have.
                                            >
                                            > If you get into trouble, say the engine breaks down, the nearest Towing company is in Sodus Bay, NY and you will always be at least 25 miles away from them.
                                            >
                                            > People are always anxious to tell horror stories about the Lake and I've been guilty of that, but the sailing is pretty nice and along the south shore there is a safe harbor about every 12-15 miles. The trip can be made in a series of 25-50 mile hops.
                                            >
                                            > Which ever way you go, let me know when you plan to be in Oswego . Be forewarned, that the last weekend in July is Harborfest and the city is kind of nuts, lots of entertainment, but lots of people too.
                                            >
                                            > Dave
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On May 28, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Bruce wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I appreciate all the wisdom and advice which I've sent on to my friend. At this point he's still leaning toward the T-S Waterway since he's heard lots of horror stories about Lake Erie - wind on the nose, t-storms, squalls, delayed trips. And the almost as bad on L Ontario to Welland canal. To me, the beer route sounds GREAT! But we may have only 2 aboard ( his boat but I seem to have made some crazy commitment after mucho wine). I guess even tho the T-S waterway might be slow, it should be fairly protected. Is there a place in Port severn or nearby to re-step the mast?
                                            >
                                            > Again, thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
                                            >
                                            > Bruce
                                            > Sa 34 MKI
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, " Neptune " <vitesseiii@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Bruce - just read your post, you have probably been getting a lot of good advice. Our Sabre came from Lake Michigan . My wife and 8 year old grandson brought it from Lake St Clair to Rochester on Lake Ontario via Lake Erie . The trip was 11 days with including 3 lay days.
                                            > >
                                            > > My recommendation is to take the Lake Erie route, its faster and the water gets a little thin in the Lake Simco - Trent Severen. Another consideration is that you either have to cross Lake Ontario with your mast down or put it up in Oswego and then take it down again in Trenton , Ont.
                                            > >
                                            > > The Welland Canel was fairly easy and interesting. The traffic is tightly controlled so you don't need to worry about messing with ships. Up bound they do require three people because of the currents in the locks, down bound just two.
                                            > >
                                            > > If you take this route I'll buy you a beer in Rochester .
                                            > >
                                            > > I just returned from sailing a fantastically well equiped from Bermuda to Cape Cod . It was a great experience, no severe weather. Made the trip in 4 days, 8 hours. Only motored in light air and to get our speed up to avoid thunderstorms.
                                            > >
                                            > > Bob
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <brucep2100@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > A friend is moving his 34 foot sailboat (not a Sabre) from Long Island Sound to Chicago this summer and is looking for advice/suggestions for the route: either Erie Canal-lake Erie- Lake Huron or Erie Canal-Oswego Canal-Trent-Severn Waterway. Any other advice or suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
                                            > > > Thanks,
                                            > > > Bruce
                                            > > > 1982 Sa34 MKI
                                            > > > PS. a gorgeous day on LIS today!
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >

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