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Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

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  • josrulz_2001
    Hi all, Thanks for the input. One thing to note--if I use the panel, it will be independent from the panel wiring. For all intents and purposes, it would be
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 2 8:55 AM
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      Hi all,
      Thanks for the input. One thing to note--if I use the panel, it will be independent from the panel wiring. For all intents and purposes, it would be just like a separate single breaker, with its own wiring, so I can pick the gauge. But I suppose to that point, it doesn't really matter then, and short wiring runs should be the driving factor.

      I'll give it some thought as I'm working through the install.

      Thanks again!
      -Jim




      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <sailor11767@...> wrote:
      >
      > The manufacturers are uniformly emphatic on the issue of connections. They recommend very short runs directly to the battery. While I don't like that idea at all, I at least listen to it. My idea is that it should come off the house battery line, after the battery fuse. That way it never gets turned off, but still has a fuse and isn't on the battery terminal. Then it goes to a dedicated breaker for the fridge, and off to the fridge.
      >
      > If you want to go to the ship's panel for distribution, keep a couple things in mind:
      >
      > * First, you will have to leave the house bank and ship's breaker panel "live" 24/7, or at least whenever the fridge is on.
      > * Second, the breaker on the panel will be the "odd man out" -- when you leave the boat and turn off all the breakers, make sure you don't turn them ALL off, and make sure you leave the RIGHT ONE on.
      > * Third, the existing line to your house panel is LOOONG. If it is factory, it goes up to your ammeter, then off to the panel, probably 12-15 feet total, and the factory wire is a #10. Mine is a #4 direct, but that's still a long run.
      > * Fourth, your power feed has to turn around and run back to the fridge.
      >
      > The power wire issue is a big one. Despite the very low draw that the fridge presents, the startup current is high -- probably higher than the nameplate number and therefore higher than you are basing your calculations on. The startup current, even though it is under 1 second (and won't trip breakers, etc) will give you a big voltage drop. The fridge will then trip out on undervoltage, and turn off. It waits a minute or so, and then restarts. That is why the manufacturer wants very short, and very heavy, wire runs.
      >
      > When I got my boat, the fridge was direct wired to the battery, no fuse, no switch, nothing. It worked fine. I wanted to improve this, but I wasn't ready to do a big job, so I ran the wire to the Nav station and picked up power there (plenty of "power" but long runs through smallish wires). It still worked fine in the slip, all day sailing, and during dinner. But around 2 or 3 in the morning, battery charge had dropped the volts a touch, and the cycling would start. I moved the wire back to the battery (with a fuse this time!), and problem resolved. This winter, I hope to make a more proper installation. The point is, voltage drop is a MAJOR issue!
      >
      > Harry
      > Rantum Scoot
      > '79 S34-I #063
      > Mill Creek, Annapolis
      >
      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi all,
      > > I think this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the thread. We're installing DC refrigeration this winter. I know that refrigeration discussions can be a little like anchors and varnish, so let me narrow the scope--we already bought the unit, it's DC, Danfoss compressor, and we know where we're going to mount it.
      > >
      > > My question is really just about wiring. Originally I'd planned to run it through a breaker on our main DC panel, but then I realized I'd have to leave the panel on any time we want the fridge running. I suppose I could install a separate breaker, but not sure that's necessary.
      > >
      > > Any thoughts on best practices here? What's worked for others with DC refrigeration hook-up?
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Jim
      > > 1984 Sabre 34, #207
      > >
      >
    • walkabout193
      Jaimie Yes, its one of the items on my Halifax list. It s a 3 vent and was installed by the PO. It sits about 1 off the cockpit floor. That along with the
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 2 10:56 AM
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        Jaimie

        Yes, its one of the items on my "Halifax" list. It's a 3" vent and was installed by the PO. It sits about 1 ' off the cockpit floor. That along with the cockpit speakers will need to secured shut for the offshore races to comply with Cat 1 & 2 requirements for secure cockpit. One thought is to cut plexiglass using the vent/speakers as a pattern and just replace them for the race.

        Len Bertaux
        Walkabout S38 MKII

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@...> wrote:
        >
        > Len,
        >
        > Aren't you worried about having a vent going to the cockpit? I have stayed away from any large diameter holes (such as for speakers without covers) above deck. Any significant water in the cockpit will flood the cabin.
        >
        > Jamie Frankel
        > S/V Sea Quester
        > 2003 Sabre 362 #265
        >
        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Jim
        > >
        > > We have an Adler Barber refrigerator which is powered off a separate breaker, located adjacent to our battery selector switch. Probably for the reasons stated in the above replies. Another point about our installation which may be of interest is we have an inline blower that's wired off the control module. This vents to the cockpit and helps the air-cooled coils work efficiently as the unit is installed beneath the after berth.
        > >
        > > Len Bertaux
        > > Walkabout S38 mkii
        > >
        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi all,
        > > > I think this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the thread. We're installing DC refrigeration this winter. I know that refrigeration discussions can be a little like anchors and varnish, so let me narrow the scope--we already bought the unit, it's DC, Danfoss compressor, and we know where we're going to mount it.
        > > >
        > > > My question is really just about wiring. Originally I'd planned to run it through a breaker on our main DC panel, but then I realized I'd have to leave the panel on any time we want the fridge running. I suppose I could install a separate breaker, but not sure that's necessary.
        > > >
        > > > Any thoughts on best practices here? What's worked for others with DC refrigeration hook-up?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Jim
        > > > 1984 Sabre 34, #207
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • sailor11767
        Len, I think you have the right idea there. For events where it s required (a race) or prudent (an extended offshore passage), you can gear up for it.
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 2 12:44 PM
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          Len,

          I think you have the right idea there. For events where it's "required" (a race) or "prudent" (an extended offshore passage), you can gear up for it. The other 99.9% of the time -- well, I don't konw about you, but *I* sure am not going to be out in conditions where taking blue water over the coamings, enough to FLOOD the cockpit, is even a remote possiblity! That sort of weather takes a day or two to build.

          Harry

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jaimie
          >
          > Yes, its one of the items on my "Halifax" list. It's a 3" vent and was installed by the PO. It sits about 1 ' off the cockpit floor. That along with the cockpit speakers will need to secured shut for the offshore races to comply with Cat 1 & 2 requirements for secure cockpit. One thought is to cut plexiglass using the vent/speakers as a pattern and just replace them for the race.
          >
          > Len Bertaux
          > Walkabout S38 MKII
          >
          > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Len,
          > >
          > > Aren't you worried about having a vent going to the cockpit? I have stayed away from any large diameter holes (such as for speakers without covers) above deck. Any significant water in the cockpit will flood the cabin.
          > >
          > > Jamie Frankel
          > > S/V Sea Quester
          > > 2003 Sabre 362 #265
          > >
          > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Jim
          > > >
          > > > We have an Adler Barber refrigerator which is powered off a separate breaker, located adjacent to our battery selector switch. Probably for the reasons stated in the above replies. Another point about our installation which may be of interest is we have an inline blower that's wired off the control module. This vents to the cockpit and helps the air-cooled coils work efficiently as the unit is installed beneath the after berth.
          > > >
          > > > Len Bertaux
          > > > Walkabout S38 mkii
          > > >
          > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi all,
          > > > > I think this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the thread. We're installing DC refrigeration this winter. I know that refrigeration discussions can be a little like anchors and varnish, so let me narrow the scope--we already bought the unit, it's DC, Danfoss compressor, and we know where we're going to mount it.
          > > > >
          > > > > My question is really just about wiring. Originally I'd planned to run it through a breaker on our main DC panel, but then I realized I'd have to leave the panel on any time we want the fridge running. I suppose I could install a separate breaker, but not sure that's necessary.
          > > > >
          > > > > Any thoughts on best practices here? What's worked for others with DC refrigeration hook-up?
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks,
          > > > > Jim
          > > > > 1984 Sabre 34, #207
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • MATT
          Sounds cheesy, but I took two stainless steel mixing bowls of the right diameter, painted a sound deadening caulk on them, and attached these to the backs of
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 2 1:13 PM
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            Sounds cheesy, but I took two stainless steel mixing bowls of the right diameter, painted a sound deadening caulk on them, and attached these to the backs of the speakers. It makes a box for the speakers (actually sounds better) and incase of getting pooped, it cannot down flood into the cabin. Sure the speakers would be ruined, but I'm not too worried about that problem if I take on that much water.

            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <sailor11767@...> wrote:
            >
            > Len,
            >
            > I think you have the right idea there. For events where it's "required" (a race) or "prudent" (an extended offshore passage), you can gear up for it. The other 99.9% of the time -- well, I don't konw about you, but *I* sure am not going to be out in conditions where taking blue water over the coamings, enough to FLOOD the cockpit, is even a remote possiblity! That sort of weather takes a day or two to build.
            >
            > Harry
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Jaimie
            > >
            > > Yes, its one of the items on my "Halifax" list. It's a 3" vent and was installed by the PO. It sits about 1 ' off the cockpit floor. That along with the cockpit speakers will need to secured shut for the offshore races to comply with Cat 1 & 2 requirements for secure cockpit. One thought is to cut plexiglass using the vent/speakers as a pattern and just replace them for the race.
            > >
            > > Len Bertaux
            > > Walkabout S38 MKII
            > >
            > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Len,
            > > >
            > > > Aren't you worried about having a vent going to the cockpit? I have stayed away from any large diameter holes (such as for speakers without covers) above deck. Any significant water in the cockpit will flood the cabin.
            > > >
            > > > Jamie Frankel
            > > > S/V Sea Quester
            > > > 2003 Sabre 362 #265
            > > >
            > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Jim
            > > > >
            > > > > We have an Adler Barber refrigerator which is powered off a separate breaker, located adjacent to our battery selector switch. Probably for the reasons stated in the above replies. Another point about our installation which may be of interest is we have an inline blower that's wired off the control module. This vents to the cockpit and helps the air-cooled coils work efficiently as the unit is installed beneath the after berth.
            > > > >
            > > > > Len Bertaux
            > > > > Walkabout S38 mkii
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi all,
            > > > > > I think this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the thread. We're installing DC refrigeration this winter. I know that refrigeration discussions can be a little like anchors and varnish, so let me narrow the scope--we already bought the unit, it's DC, Danfoss compressor, and we know where we're going to mount it.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > My question is really just about wiring. Originally I'd planned to run it through a breaker on our main DC panel, but then I realized I'd have to leave the panel on any time we want the fridge running. I suppose I could install a separate breaker, but not sure that's necessary.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Any thoughts on best practices here? What's worked for others with DC refrigeration hook-up?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > > Jim
            > > > > > 1984 Sabre 34, #207
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • walkabout193
            Harry likewise here, we are generally not offshore except when we head downeast and the longest passage we ve done then was 32 hours, Beverly MA to Roque
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 3 4:32 AM
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              Harry

              likewise here, we are generally not offshore except when we head downeast and the longest passage we've done then was 32 hours, Beverly MA to Roque Island. If the forecast was for significant wind and waves we would not head out but wait for a better weather window. But Halifax is 3 days and Bermuda is 5 days so those kind of extended offshore trips offer less assurance about the weather forecast.

              Len

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <sailor11767@...> wrote:
              >
              > Len,
              >
              > I think you have the right idea there. For events where it's "required" (a race) or "prudent" (an extended offshore passage), you can gear up for it. The other 99.9% of the time -- well, I don't konw about you, but *I* sure am not going to be out in conditions where taking blue water over the coamings, enough to FLOOD the cockpit, is even a remote possiblity! That sort of weather takes a day or two to build.
              >
              > Harry
              >
              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Jaimie
              > >
              > > Yes, its one of the items on my "Halifax" list. It's a 3" vent and was installed by the PO. It sits about 1 ' off the cockpit floor. That along with the cockpit speakers will need to secured shut for the offshore races to comply with Cat 1 & 2 requirements for secure cockpit. One thought is to cut plexiglass using the vent/speakers as a pattern and just replace them for the race.
              > >
              > > Len Bertaux
              > > Walkabout S38 MKII
              > >
              > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Len,
              > > >
              > > > Aren't you worried about having a vent going to the cockpit? I have stayed away from any large diameter holes (such as for speakers without covers) above deck. Any significant water in the cockpit will flood the cabin.
              > > >
              > > > Jamie Frankel
              > > > S/V Sea Quester
              > > > 2003 Sabre 362 #265
              > > >
              > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "walkabout193" <lbertaux@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Jim
              > > > >
              > > > > We have an Adler Barber refrigerator which is powered off a separate breaker, located adjacent to our battery selector switch. Probably for the reasons stated in the above replies. Another point about our installation which may be of interest is we have an inline blower that's wired off the control module. This vents to the cockpit and helps the air-cooled coils work efficiently as the unit is installed beneath the after berth.
              > > > >
              > > > > Len Bertaux
              > > > > Walkabout S38 mkii
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hi all,
              > > > > > I think this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the thread. We're installing DC refrigeration this winter. I know that refrigeration discussions can be a little like anchors and varnish, so let me narrow the scope--we already bought the unit, it's DC, Danfoss compressor, and we know where we're going to mount it.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > My question is really just about wiring. Originally I'd planned to run it through a breaker on our main DC panel, but then I realized I'd have to leave the panel on any time we want the fridge running. I suppose I could install a separate breaker, but not sure that's necessary.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Any thoughts on best practices here? What's worked for others with DC refrigeration hook-up?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thanks,
              > > > > > Jim
              > > > > > 1984 Sabre 34, #207
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • josrulz_2001
              Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I m trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here s my question:
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 8 8:48 AM
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                Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:

                Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?

                Thanks!
                -Jim


                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Jim,
                > >
                > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                > >
                > > > Dick Coerse
                > > > "Early Light"
                > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                > > > Solomons, MD
                > >
                >
              • Barry Dwyer
                The clock on the radio, if you have one. Barry From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001 Sent:
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 8 8:51 AM
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                  The clock on the radio, if you have one.

                   

                  Barry

                   

                  From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                   

                   

                  Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:

                  Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?

                  Thanks!
                  -Jim

                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jim,
                  > >
                  > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                  > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                  > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                  > >
                  > > > Dick Coerse
                  > > > "Early Light"
                  > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                  > > > Solomons, MD
                  > >
                  >

                • Dave Lochner
                  Also the station presets on the radio. Dave On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote: The clock on the radio, if you have one. Barry From:
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 8 9:03 AM
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                    Also the station presets on the radio.

                    Dave

                    On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:

                     

                    The clock on the radio, if you have one.

                     

                    Barry

                     

                    From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                     

                     

                    Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:

                    Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?

                    Thanks!
                    -Jim

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Jim,
                    > >
                    > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                    > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                    > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                    > >
                    > > > Dick Coerse
                    > > > "Early Light"
                    > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                    > > > Solomons, MD
                    > >
                    >



                  • josrulz_2001
                    Both good suggestions. I currently don t have that always on power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 8 9:09 AM
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                      Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.

                      I really can't think of anything major besides those.


                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Also the station presets on the radio.
                      >
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Barry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                      > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                      > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                      >
                      > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                      >
                      > Thanks!
                      > -Jim
                      >
                      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Jim,
                      > > >
                      > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                      > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                      > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                      > > >
                      > > > > Dick Coerse
                      > > > > "Early Light"
                      > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                      > > > > Solomons, MD
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • jamesfrankel
                      The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 8 9:26 AM
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                        The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).

                        Good luck,

                        Jamie
                        S/V Sea Quester

                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                        >
                        > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                        > >
                        > > Dave
                        > >
                        > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Barry
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                        > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                        > >
                        > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks!
                        > > -Jim
                        > >
                        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Jim,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                        > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                        > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Dick Coerse
                        > > > > > "Early Light"
                        > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                        > > > > > Solomons, MD
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Scott
                        In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant a seperate feed. My Espar has it s own circuit with breaker from the battery.   Scott
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 8 2:03 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant a seperate feed. My Espar has it's own circuit with breaker from the battery.
                           
                          Scott

                          From: jamesfrankel <jlf-oohay.com@...>
                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:26 PM
                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                           
                          The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).

                          Good luck,

                          Jamie
                          S/V Sea Quester

                          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                          >
                          > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                          > >
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Barry
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                          > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                          > >
                          > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks!
                          > > -Jim
                          > >
                          > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Jim,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                          > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                          > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > Dick Coerse
                          > > > > > "Early Light"
                          > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                          > > > > > Solomons, MD
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >



                        • Jim Starkey
                          I m curious? Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off? ... -- Jim Starkey Founder and CTO NuoDB, Inc.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 8 2:06 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm curious?  Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?

                            On 2/8/2012 5:03 PM, Scott wrote:  
                            In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant a seperate feed. My Espar has it's own circuit with breaker from the battery.
                             
                            Scott

                            From: jamesfrankel <jlf-oohay.com@...>
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:26 PM
                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                             
                            The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).

                            Good luck,

                            Jamie
                            S/V Sea Quester

                            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                            >
                            > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                            > >
                            > > Dave
                            > >
                            > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Barry
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                            > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                            > >
                            > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks!
                            > > -Jim
                            > >
                            > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jim,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                            > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                            > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Dick Coerse
                            > > > > > "Early Light"
                            > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                            > > > > > Solomons, MD
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >





                            -- 
                            Jim Starkey
                            Founder and CTO
                            NuoDB, Inc.
                          • sailor11767
                            Jim has most of them nailed. My plan (only on paper so far) is this: Two small fuse panels, very close the batteries. They will have their own main breaker
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 8 3:08 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jim has most of them nailed. My plan (only on paper so far) is this:

                              Two small fuse panels, very close the batteries. They will have their own "main breaker" in the feed line to easily turn them off for maintenance (similar to the main battery switch, but "on" 99.99% of the time), probably a 50A or surface mount breaker. They will tap off after the battery fuse (connection will be either at the battery fuse, or at the battery switch, whichever is convenient -- probably right at the battery fuse).

                              House Battery fuse block:
                              * Fridge
                              * Battery Monitor
                              * Battery Charger
                              * Power for Balmar regulator (future need)
                              * Sense for Balmar regulator (future need -- for now, sense to the internal regulator with external sense)
                              * Bilge Pump
                              * Feed to "battery combiner" (pick your flavor. Also, a future need as I don't have one yet)
                              * Sense wire for the "battery combiner" (I think some need this. As I don't have an ACR, I really dont' know)

                              Spare Battery fuse block:
                              * Battery Monitor
                              * Battery Charger (I don't have an ACR yet, so my charger leads to both batteries)
                              * Radio memory (yes, you could say this should go to the House, but I think I'll run out of spots. It draws zip-point-zilch in current, so won't drain the battery. Also, should the house battery go stone cold dead, the radio won't need to be reprogrammed. The real reason is I'll run out of spots on the House fuse panel).
                              * Backup Bilge Pump (future need. I really think a second bilge pump is a good idea, because if anything happens to your primary pump (clogs, etc) and you are away, a small leak can sink you. And if you have two, running them from two batteries just makes sense).
                              * Feed from "battery combiner" (future need)

                              Note that I'm using fuses, not breakers. They are a lot cheaper, a lot smaller, and I think plenty adequate for the job. I'll be using automotive blade types for convenience. As far as reliablity, remember that old Sabres came with fuses, not breakers. Breakers make sense where they get used as switches, but these slots will all be always-on. The panels will be mounted under the quarterberth, out of sight and out of mind. They will also be very close to the battery, as required for the fridge, battery monitor, regulator sensor, etc.

                              My fuse blocks are both 6-slot blocks. The house block has 8 item listed, not all present needs. I figure if I start to break the bank, there are some that could combine easily -- for instance, the battery monitor, regulator sense, and ACR sense are all fractional amp loads and could easily be fed from a single 1A fuse.

                              Harry

                              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).
                              >
                              > Good luck,
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              > S/V Sea Quester
                              >
                              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                              > >
                              > > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                              > > >
                              > > > Dave
                              > > >
                              > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Barry
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                              > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                              > > >
                              > > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks!
                              > > > -Jim
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Jim,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                              > > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                              > > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Dick Coerse
                              > > > > > > "Early Light"
                              > > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                              > > > > > > Solomons, MD
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • sailor11767
                              Jim has most of them nailed. My plan (only on paper so far) is this: Two small fuse panels, very close the batteries. They will have their own main breaker
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 8 3:08 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Jim has most of them nailed. My plan (only on paper so far) is this:

                                Two small fuse panels, very close the batteries. They will have their own "main breaker" in the feed line to easily turn them off for maintenance (similar to the main battery switch, but "on" 99.99% of the time), probably a 50A or surface mount breaker. They will tap off after the battery fuse (connection will be either at the battery fuse, or at the battery switch, whichever is convenient -- probably right at the battery fuse).

                                House Battery fuse block:
                                * Fridge
                                * Battery Monitor
                                * Battery Charger
                                * Power for Balmar regulator (future need)
                                * Sense for Balmar regulator (future need -- for now, sense to the internal regulator with external sense)
                                * Bilge Pump
                                * Feed to "battery combiner" (pick your flavor. Also, a future need as I don't have one yet)
                                * Sense wire for the "battery combiner" (I think some need this. As I don't have an ACR, I really dont' know)

                                Spare Battery fuse block:
                                * Battery Monitor
                                * Battery Charger (I don't have an ACR yet, so my charger leads to both batteries)
                                * Radio memory (yes, you could say this should go to the House, but I think I'll run out of spots. It draws zip-point-zilch in current, so won't drain the battery. Also, should the house battery go stone cold dead, the radio won't need to be reprogrammed. The real reason is I'll run out of spots on the House fuse panel).
                                * Backup Bilge Pump (future need. I really think a second bilge pump is a good idea, because if anything happens to your primary pump (clogs, etc) and you are away, a small leak can sink you. And if you have two, running them from two batteries just makes sense).
                                * Feed from "battery combiner" (future need)

                                Note that I'm using fuses, not breakers. They are a lot cheaper, a lot smaller, and I think plenty adequate for the job. I'll be using automotive blade types for convenience. As far as reliablity, remember that old Sabres came with fuses, not breakers. Breakers make sense where they get used as switches, but these slots will all be always-on. The panels will be mounted under the quarterberth, out of sight and out of mind. They will also be very close to the battery, as required for the fridge, battery monitor, regulator sensor, etc.

                                My fuse blocks are both 6-slot blocks. The house block has 8 item listed, not all present needs. I figure if I start to break the bank, there are some that could combine easily -- for instance, the battery monitor, regulator sense, and ACR sense are all fractional amp loads and could easily be fed from a single 1A fuse.

                                Harry

                                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).
                                >
                                > Good luck,
                                >
                                > Jamie
                                > S/V Sea Quester
                                >
                                > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                                > >
                                > > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                                > > >
                                > > > Dave
                                > > >
                                > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Barry
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                                > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                                > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                                > > >
                                > > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks!
                                > > > -Jim
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Jim,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                                > > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                                > > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Dick Coerse
                                > > > > > > "Early Light"
                                > > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                                > > > > > > Solomons, MD
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • sailor11767
                                Just a suspicion, but I bet that is in accordance with Espar s manual. I find it very frustrating, but it s amazing how many folks clearly show in their
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 8 3:50 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Just a suspicion, but I bet that is in accordance with Espar's manual. I find it very frustrating, but it's amazing how many folks clearly show in their directions installations that are at best poor practice, and in many cases violations of ABYC. Granted, if you hired an ABYC certified electrician he would (hopefully) disregard the instructions and do the "right thing," but most work can be done by competent DIY folks, especially if the instructions don't guide you the wrong way.

                                  Personally, I think a battery "+" terminal should be pristine. It should have a big battery cable on it and NOTHING else (OK, maybe a temperature sensor). When you remove the battery, it shouldn't take a diagram to reconnect it correctly (*see story below). And, the battery terminal shouldn't violate the 4 lugs per terminal criteria. But, many vendors think (and show) their wires going straight to the battery, including:
                                  * Battery Cables (yeah, they SHOULD!)
                                  * Battery Monitors
                                  * External Regulators (Balmar asks you to connect TWO wires plus a temperature sensor on the battery terminal -- that and the battery cable gets you to max connections!)
                                  * Battey Chargers
                                  * Refrigeration
                                  * Any guesses on bilge pumps? I'd guess they do.

                                  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Espar showed a wire going straight to the battery (with a fuse, probably).

                                  Harry

                                  * True story. When I got the boat, my batteries were an ungodly mess, with nothing labeled, fuses in the negative wires, colors all confusing (mostly all black), etc. I straightened it all out on the hard, but I didn't "fix" anything, I just got it working. Then, for reasons I no longer recall, I had to take the battery out at T-1 day. I put it back in (T-0 day?), and launched the boat. On the delivery home, the propeller shaft worked out of the coupling part way and trashed my shaft seal, and water started flowing in -- not bad, but not dry either! Well, I found this when the water was almost to the cabin sole (not sure why I checked...). The bottom line is that when I put the battery back in, all those wires (about 6 on the + terminal, plus some over on the - terminal) got mixed up a bit, and the bilge pump was no longer powered up. That's why I have a strong opinion on the matter!


                                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I'm curious? Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?
                                  >
                                  > On 2/8/2012 5:03 PM, Scott wrote:
                                  > > In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant
                                  > > a seperate feed. My Espar has it's own circuit with breaker from the
                                  > > battery.
                                  > > Scott
                                  > >
                                  > > *From:* jamesfrankel <jlf-oohay.com@...>
                                  > > *To:* Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:26 PM
                                  > > *Subject:* [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                  > >
                                  > > The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel
                                  > > are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the
                                  > > large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly
                                  > > and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again
                                  > > through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).
                                  > >
                                  > > Good luck,
                                  > >
                                  > > Jamie
                                  > > S/V Sea Quester
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, "josrulz_2001"
                                  > > <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power
                                  > > hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a
                                  > > circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave Lochner <davelochner@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Dave
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Barry
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                                  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                                  > > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying
                                  > > to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs.
                                  > > Here's my question:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC
                                  > > loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I
                                  > > can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's
                                  > > something I'm not considering?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks!
                                  > > > > -Jim
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, "josrulz_2001"
                                  > > <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic
                                  > > bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces.
                                  > > It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the
                                  > > battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch
                                  > > (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel,
                                  > > but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up
                                  > > direct to house. Might work.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Jim,
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I
                                  > > located
                                  > > > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump
                                  > > NOT inboard
                                  > > > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Dick Coerse
                                  > > > > > > > "Early Light"
                                  > > > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                                  > > > > > > > Solomons, MD
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Jim Starkey
                                  > Founder and CTO
                                  > NuoDB, Inc.
                                  >
                                • Scott
                                  Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?   Jim,   It was spec d that way for the install. It was not for running it with the panel off.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 8 4:10 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    "Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?"
                                     
                                    Jim,
                                     
                                    It was spec'd that way for the install. It was not for running it with the panel off. I'm trying to remember, and I think it had something to do with the power down cycle. The system can not lose power while performing this cycle that takes several minutes. I think they didn't want it installed on a panel that gets shut down accidently. (like leaving the boat and shuting off the main switch while the power down cycle runs.)  At least that's what I remember them emphasizing many years ago...
                                     
                                    Scott

                                    From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...>
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 5:06 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                                     
                                    I'm curious?  Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?

                                    On 2/8/2012 5:03 PM, Scott wrote:
                                     
                                    In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant a seperate feed. My Espar has it's own circuit with breaker from the battery.
                                     
                                    Scott

                                    From: jamesfrankel <jlf-oohay.com@...>
                                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:26 PM
                                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                                     
                                    The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).

                                    Good luck,

                                    Jamie
                                    S/V Sea Quester

                                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                                    >
                                    > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                                    > >
                                    > > Dave
                                    > >
                                    > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Barry
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                                    > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                                    > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                                    > >
                                    > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks!
                                    > > -Jim
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Jim,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                                    > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                                    > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > Dick Coerse
                                    > > > > > "Early Light"
                                    > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                                    > > > > > Solomons, MD
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >





                                    -- 
                                    Jim Starkey
                                    Founder and CTO
                                    NuoDB, Inc.


                                  • Scott
                                    It wouldn t surprise me in the least if Espar showed a wire going straight to the battery (with a fuse, probably).   Even worse, the install originally had
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 8 4:25 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      "It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Espar showed a wire going straight to the battery (with a fuse, probably)."
                                       
                                      Even worse, the install originally had the only fuse located at the Espar unit only. That is a wire run of some 15+ feet away from the battery. I insisted that it have a breaker within the first couple feet from the battery.
                                       
                                       espar1.jpg
                                      From: sailor11767 <sailor11767@...>
                                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:50 PM
                                      Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options

                                       
                                      Just a suspicion, but I bet that is in accordance with Espar's manual. I find it very frustrating, but it's amazing how many folks clearly show in their directions installations that are at best poor practice, and in many cases violations of ABYC. Granted, if you hired an ABYC certified electrician he would (hopefully) disregard the instructions and do the "right thing," but most work can be done by competent DIY folks, especially if the instructions don't guide you the wrong way.

                                      Personally, I think a battery "+" terminal should be pristine. It should have a big battery cable on it and NOTHING else (OK, maybe a temperature sensor). When you remove the battery, it shouldn't take a diagram to reconnect it correctly (*see story below). And, the battery terminal shouldn't violate the 4 lugs per terminal criteria. But, many vendors think (and show) their wires going straight to the battery, including:
                                      * Battery Cables (yeah, they SHOULD!)
                                      * Battery Monitors
                                      * External Regulators (Balmar asks you to connect TWO wires plus a temperature sensor on the battery terminal -- that and the battery cable gets you to max connections!)
                                      * Battey Chargers
                                      * Refrigeration
                                      * Any guesses on bilge pumps? I'd guess they do.

                                      It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Espar showed a wire going straight to the battery (with a fuse, probably).

                                      Harry

                                      * True story. When I got the boat, my batteries were an ungodly mess, with nothing labeled, fuses in the negative wires, colors all confusing (mostly all black), etc. I straightened it all out on the hard, but I didn't "fix" anything, I just got it working. Then, for reasons I no longer recall, I had to take the battery out at T-1 day. I put it back in (T-0 day?), and launched the boat. On the delivery home, the propeller shaft worked out of the coupling part way and trashed my shaft seal, and water started flowing in -- not bad, but not dry either! Well, I found this when the water was almost to the cabin sole (not sure why I checked...). The bottom line is that when I put the battery back in, all those wires (about 6 on the + terminal, plus some over on the - terminal) got mixed up a bit, and the bilge pump was no longer powered up. That's why I have a strong opinion on the matter!

                                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I'm curious? Why would you ever want to run an Espar with the panel off?
                                      >
                                      > On 2/8/2012 5:03 PM, Scott wrote:
                                      > > In northern climates, an Espar or Webasto diesel heater would warrant
                                      > > a seperate feed. My Espar has it's own circuit with breaker from the
                                      > > battery.
                                      > > Scott
                                      > >
                                      > > *From:* jamesfrankel <jlf-oohay.com@...>
                                      > > *To:* Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:26 PM
                                      > > *Subject:* [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                      > >
                                      > > The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel
                                      > > are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the
                                      > > large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly
                                      > > and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again
                                      > > through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).
                                      > >
                                      > > Good luck,
                                      > >
                                      > > Jamie
                                      > > S/V Sea Quester
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, "josrulz_2001"
                                      > > <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power
                                      > > hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a
                                      > > circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave Lochner <davelochner@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Dave
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Barry
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                                      > > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying
                                      > > to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs.
                                      > > Here's my question:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC
                                      > > loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I
                                      > > can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's
                                      > > something I'm not considering?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thanks!
                                      > > > > -Jim
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, "josrulz_2001"
                                      > > <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic
                                      > > bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces.
                                      > > It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the
                                      > > battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch
                                      > > (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel,
                                      > > but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up
                                      > > direct to house. Might work.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Jim,
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I
                                      > > located
                                      > > > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump
                                      > > NOT inboard
                                      > > > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > Dick Coerse
                                      > > > > > > > "Early Light"
                                      > > > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                                      > > > > > > > Solomons, MD
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Jim Starkey
                                      > Founder and CTO
                                      > NuoDB, Inc.
                                      >



                                    • josrulz_2001
                                      Quick question for you all. My understanding is that ABYC requires that stuff like the fridge must go through the main battery switch. The idea being that if
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 9 11:33 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Quick question for you all. My understanding is that ABYC requires that stuff like the fridge must go through the main battery switch. The idea being that if you have a problem you can immediately turn everything off in one place (minus perhaps the bilge pump and other safety-oriented items). Is this true, or am I misunderstanding?

                                        Don't get me wrong--I don't have my battery fuses within 7" of my batteries either (more like 12"). Just interested in knowing what the standard is supposed to be.
                                        Thanks,
                                        Jim

                                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <sailor11767@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Jim has most of them nailed. My plan (only on paper so far) is this:
                                        >
                                        > Two small fuse panels, very close the batteries. They will have their own "main breaker" in the feed line to easily turn them off for maintenance (similar to the main battery switch, but "on" 99.99% of the time), probably a 50A or surface mount breaker. They will tap off after the battery fuse (connection will be either at the battery fuse, or at the battery switch, whichever is convenient -- probably right at the battery fuse).
                                        >
                                        > House Battery fuse block:
                                        > * Fridge
                                        > * Battery Monitor
                                        > * Battery Charger
                                        > * Power for Balmar regulator (future need)
                                        > * Sense for Balmar regulator (future need -- for now, sense to the internal regulator with external sense)
                                        > * Bilge Pump
                                        > * Feed to "battery combiner" (pick your flavor. Also, a future need as I don't have one yet)
                                        > * Sense wire for the "battery combiner" (I think some need this. As I don't have an ACR, I really dont' know)
                                        >
                                        > Spare Battery fuse block:
                                        > * Battery Monitor
                                        > * Battery Charger (I don't have an ACR yet, so my charger leads to both batteries)
                                        > * Radio memory (yes, you could say this should go to the House, but I think I'll run out of spots. It draws zip-point-zilch in current, so won't drain the battery. Also, should the house battery go stone cold dead, the radio won't need to be reprogrammed. The real reason is I'll run out of spots on the House fuse panel).
                                        > * Backup Bilge Pump (future need. I really think a second bilge pump is a good idea, because if anything happens to your primary pump (clogs, etc) and you are away, a small leak can sink you. And if you have two, running them from two batteries just makes sense).
                                        > * Feed from "battery combiner" (future need)
                                        >
                                        > Note that I'm using fuses, not breakers. They are a lot cheaper, a lot smaller, and I think plenty adequate for the job. I'll be using automotive blade types for convenience. As far as reliablity, remember that old Sabres came with fuses, not breakers. Breakers make sense where they get used as switches, but these slots will all be always-on. The panels will be mounted under the quarterberth, out of sight and out of mind. They will also be very close to the battery, as required for the fridge, battery monitor, regulator sensor, etc.
                                        >
                                        > My fuse blocks are both 6-slot blocks. The house block has 8 item listed, not all present needs. I figure if I start to break the bank, there are some that could combine easily -- for instance, the battery monitor, regulator sense, and ACR sense are all fractional amp loads and could easily be fed from a single 1A fuse.
                                        >
                                        > Harry
                                        >
                                        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "jamesfrankel" <jlf-oohay.com@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > The other loads usually not connected through the main breaker panel are: (1) a windlass -- through its own circuit breaker (because of the large size of the load), (2) any battery monitoring panel (directly and through shunts to measure load), (3) an inverter/charger -- again through its own switch/breaker (because of the large size of the load).
                                        > >
                                        > > Good luck,
                                        > >
                                        > > Jamie
                                        > > S/V Sea Quester
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Both good suggestions. I currently don't have that "always on" power hooked up, but might do that. Of course, I probably would not use a circuit breaker slot for that, but rather in-line fuses instead.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I really can't think of anything major besides those.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Also the station presets on the radio.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Dave
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Barry Dwyer wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The clock on the radio, if you have one.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Barry
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josrulz_2001
                                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:48 AM
                                        > > > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: DC Refrigeration wiring options
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hey folks, this is a follow-up to my original question. I'm trying to plan ahead, and I want to make sure I am prepared for future needs. Here's my question:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Besides refrigeration and the bilge pump, are there any other DC loads that might need to be direct-to-battery, skipping the switch? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but perhaps there's something I'm not considering?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks!
                                        > > > > -Jim
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "josrulz_2001" <josrulz_2001@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Thanks Dick. Now that I think about it, I have an automatic bilge pump switch that's in the main panel and takes up two spaces. It's not hooked up through the main switch (it's straight to the battery). I'm tempted to put in a separate smart bilge pump switch (with counter and alarm), then run the fridge through the main panel, but in that former bilge pump switch location, and also hooked up direct to house. Might work.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Richard Coerse <rcoerse@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Jim,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Sorry, but after looking at my web page I re3alized that I located
                                        > > > > > > that breaker immediately ABOVE the door to the ice box pump NOT inboard
                                        > > > > > > of it......So much for my memory *LOL*
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Dick Coerse
                                        > > > > > > > "Early Light"
                                        > > > > > > > 1982 Sabre 34 MK I #160
                                        > > > > > > > Solomons, MD
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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