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Re: Bidding good bye to Rockport and a couple of related questions

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  • Martin
    I think you are talking about the manifold rather than the heat exchanger. The part where the coolant surrounds the exhaust manifold. The old design was bad
    Message 1 of 39 , May 31, 2011
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      I think you are talking about the manifold rather than the heat exchanger. The part where the coolant surrounds the exhaust manifold. The old design was bad and allows coolant to leak into the cylinders. A very expensive and possibly fatal issue. Go with the new all aluminum manifold and the matching injection elbow. We did in 2006 for about $1,200 parts and labor. Westerbeke was giving away the manifolds free initially but I think they charged about $600 when we got ours. The parts are the main cost the labor is not extensive. Have you had the compression checked on the engine to make sure no damage has occurred?
      Search the board there has been tons written on this issue.
      Cheers,
      Martin

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "marblehead2011" <rryan14@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for your thoughtful comments Alan.
      >
      > I would agree with you regarding the labor rate, except that the rate difference is pretty large: $48/h versus $125/h. Along with the parts, this is the difference between a $1700 and $2600 repair paid for by the PO. I have to like and trust the yard in Warren (Johanson's) whereas the yard in Marblehead (Hansen Marine) is an unknown to me. I wasn't too worried about motor sailing with a weeping heat exchanger, but I was concerned that the escrow agreement might not cover the cost if we left (that is what the broker is telling us).
      >
      > The main mechanic at Johansons feels that it isn't worth fixing the gasket, because in his experience, the aluminum warps and corrodes; Westerbeke fixed this problem in later years. You could say that he was trying to drum up more repair $$$s, but I think the opposite is really true - he wants me to go to Hansen because they have too much work for now.
      >
      > The vibration in the prop is what concerns me as I know next to nothing about props. You raised several questions that I don't have answers for. The yard speculates that the vibrations are caused by the shaft moving against the drive shaft wall - and hence the vibrations felt in the entire hull. I hadn't thought about the rudder so this cannot be ruled out. I would like to know if excessive vibrations means wear and tear to the fiberglass housing?
      >
      > And so it goes, sighÂ…
      >
      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Alan Pressman <alanpressman@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Even though the owner will apparently pay for Rockland repairs for the heat
      > > exchanger, in my experience it is always better for the new owner to
      > > undertake the repairs himself and at a yard near where the boat will be
      > > kept. That way the yard is responsible to the new owner, and not the
      > > previous owner. If there is a problem which requires follow up work, will
      > > you bring the boat back to Rockland? Can you get the yard (with the help of
      > > your broker?) to provide a written estimate for the work and in this way get
      > > your seller to reduce the final net price by this amount? This way you have
      > > the funds to undertake repairs at your yard as you determine. (What is
      > > labor differential Rockland ME to Marblehead? 85.00 per hour vs 110? At 25
      > > bucks differential at 6-8(??) hours this only amounts to a couple of hundred
      > > dollars.)
      > >
      > > You may be able to have the heat exchanger steam cleaned (or at a minimum
      > > remove both ends and ream the tubes out with a dowell or coat hanger to
      > > remove any old debris that might be lurking) and you may be able to stop
      > > the weeping by replacing the rubber gaskets on each end when you reassemble
      > > it. The only other leaking points from the head exchanger are from the four
      > > in and out points. (salt and fresh water in and out) Check the hose
      > > condition and tighten the connecting hose clamps at all four connections.
      > > Just a thought and it might get you through the season. A couple of hours
      > > labor now could resolve the problem so that you can go sailing and deliver
      > > the boat.
      > >
      > > Vibration and not rev'ing up to rated engine RPM under load may be related
      > > to prop pitch with the folding prop. Max prop has adjustable pitch. I'd
      > > live with if for the first season and get with Max Prop and make the
      > > adjustment when you haul in the fall.
      > >
      > > But since vibration occurs when the rudder is hard over, has your surveyor
      > > ruled out any problems with the rudder shaft? Is the vibration coming from
      > > the rudder/shaft and have the rudder tube, bearings and stock been ruled out
      > > as a source of vibration?
      > >
      > > If the boat hull, deck, engine, steering, rigging and sails are
      > > fundamentally sound, (and you have good ground tackle and safety gear
      > > aboard) I'd minimize the time for repairs now and get on with your trip to
      > > Marblehead. I delivered a S 32 to from Rockland to Marblehead a few years
      > > ago. What a great trip.
      > >
      > > Go sailing and enjoy the boat.
      > >
      > > Alan
      > > Windswept S 34 # 430
      > >
      > > On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 7:12 PM, marblehead2011 <rryan14@> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > UPDATE 5/29/11 - Argh! The boat is still in Rockport despite taking off a
      > > > week to prepare her for her maiden voyage down to Marblehead. The boat
      > > > didn't entirely pass the sea trial and the broker/owner wants the work done
      > > > in Rockport (under escrow). And, the weather couldn't have been nastier -
      > > > cold, drizzle, fog, etc.
      > > >
      > > > -Issue 1 is a common problem that I am sure many of you already have
      > > > experienced: the heat exchanger is 'weeping' fluids. The prognosis is to
      > > > replace the aluminum heat exchanger, a $1,100 part + labor. Because the
      > > > labor rate in Maine is 1/3 to 1/2 the cost in Marblehead, the owner wants it
      > > > done in Maine. The leaking wouldn't have delayed the voyage but I want it
      > > > fixed on the owner's dime. However, this contributes to a new problem (see
      > > > Issue 3).
      > > >
      > > > -Issue 2 is a more confusing and I really could use this group's expertise:
      > > > when powering the boat at say 1,000 RPMs and then making a turn in either
      > > > direction, the entire hull reverberates LOUDLY. When going in a straight
      > > > line, the noise disappears. Initially, the yard thought that the engine
      > > > might be misaligned. Later, the broker consulted with someone named Steve
      > > > Bunnell who claims this happens when the propeller is mismatched
      > > > (overpowered) to the engine's horsepower. The prop is a large 2 blade
      > > > folding prop - probably a Flex-o-Fold or Gori (can't tell) that was fairly
      > > > new. One other piece of potentially related information: the engine will rev
      > > > to 3100 RPMs out of gear but only 2600 in gear. And yet, the boat under
      > > > power will easily hit 7.9 knots.
      > > >
      > > > Question: does the prognosis that the boat is over-powered with the wrong
      > > > prop make sense? If not, what would you recommend?
      > > >
      > > > Question: besides the maxi-prop, what propeller would you recommend to
      > > > alleviate this problem?
      > > >
      > > > -Issue 3: Can anyone recommend a captain to deliver this boat from Rockport
      > > > to Marblehead (~140 km) possibly around June 13-26? I cannot be certain of
      > > > my availability since I have kind of blown my vacation and have some
      > > > obligations. I had hired another captain to assist me but he is unavailable.
      > > >
      > > > Aside from this problems, the boat is amazing. I found myself looking at
      > > > the boat from the dock and thinking "wow, I really own this." I never once
      > > > thought that about my old J/28.
      > > >
      > > > BTW, I ended up buying a Mustang HIT inflatable jacket - it was the most
      > > > comfortable to me. I also ended up using the Davis Echomaster during the 5
      > > > days of fog.
      > > >
      > > > -Bob
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "marblehead2011" <rryan14@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > After months of driving back and forth from New Hampshire to Maine each
      > > > weekend to work on our Sabre 36, we are finally sailing it down to
      > > > Marblehead this Saturday. The boat wintered at Johanson's Boatworks in
      > > > Warren - and those guys are so good (never thought I would say this about a
      > > > boatyard) that it saddens me to think that I will be returning to the land
      > > > of the grossly over-priced and underwhelming yards of Salem/Marblehead. The
      > > > voyage is 140 nautical miles. I've made longer trips, but never in Maine and
      > > > never with such a run of raw, bleak weather. To this end, I have hired a
      > > > local captain and I'll crew.
      > > > >
      > > > > So, I have a couple of last minute questions that I could use some help
      > > > on:
      > > > >
      > > > > 1. What is the mast height, including freeboard for a 1985 Sabre 36? I
      > > > have three conflicting numbers.
      > > > >
      > > > > 2. What is the fuel capacity for this boat (Westerbeke W-27)? Our
      > > > surveyor said 20 gallons but I believe it has to be 30 gallons.
      > > > >
      > > > > 3. And here is the main question: what is the average run rate per hour
      > > > at 6 knots? In short, how far can I get on 30 gallons at 6 knots assuming
      > > > minimal current? Would you advise a 5 gallon Gerry can for extra insurance?
      > > > >
      > > > > 4. Finally, I am going to buy an offshore inflatable vest with harness.
      > > > The ones at West Marine are nice but strike me as uncomfortable at the neck.
      > > > I have not tried others like Mustang. could anyone reading this make a
      > > > recommendation based upon reliability + comfort (seems to me I won't wear it
      > > > if it isn't comfortable)?
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks in advance,
      > > > >
      > > > > Bob
      > > > > "Blue Note"
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Alan Pressman
      > > **941-350-1559
      > > alanpressman@
      > >
      >
    • Alan Therrien
      Bob, I have a 1982 Sabre 34 Mk I, with the Westerbeke 27 engine and a Martec folding prop. It s 16 x 10 RH. Alan T. ... From:
      Message 39 of 39 , Jun 2, 2011
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        Bob,
         
        I have a 1982 Sabre 34 Mk I, with the Westerbeke 27 engine and a Martec folding prop.  It's 16 x 10 RH.
         
        Alan T.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:07 PM
        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Bidding good bye to Rockport and a couple of related questions

         

        Does anyone know what size of Martec folding prop ( MARTEC MK III ELIPTEC) would be suitable for a W-27 engine?

        -Martec says 16x12 1" diameter
        -Sabre says 16x10 1" which doesn't seem to exists (at least for Martec)

        I believe that this is right-handed - right?
        And, how does one find the recommended pitch for one of these props?

        Thank you,

        -Bob

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "marblehead2011" <rryan14@...> wrote:
        >
        > After months of driving back and forth from New Hampshire to Maine each weekend to work on our Sabre 36, we are finally sailing it down to Marblehead this Saturday. The boat wintered at Johanson's Boatworks in Warren - and those guys are so good (never thought I would say this about a boatyard) that it saddens me to think that I will be returning to the land of the grossly over-priced and underwhelming yards of Salem/Marblehead. The voyage is 140 nautical miles. I've made longer trips, but never in Maine and never with such a run of raw, bleak weather. To this end, I have hired a local captain and I'll crew.
        >
        > So, I have a couple of last minute questions that I could use some help on:
        >
        > 1. What is the mast height, including freeboard for a 1985 Sabre 36? I have three conflicting numbers.
        >
        > 2. What is the fuel capacity for this boat (Westerbeke W-27)? Our surveyor said 20 gallons but I believe it has to be 30 gallons.
        >
        > 3. And here is the main question: what is the average run rate per hour at 6 knots? In short, how far can I get on 30 gallons at 6 knots assuming minimal current? Would you advise a 5 gallon Gerry can for extra insurance?
        >
        > 4. Finally, I am going to buy an offshore inflatable vest with harness. The ones at West Marine are nice but strike me as uncomfortable at the neck. I have not tried others like Mustang. could anyone reading this make a recommendation based upon reliability + comfort (seems to me I won't wear it if it isn't comfortable)?
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > Bob
        > "Blue Note"
        >

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