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No revs under Load

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  • Ira Baline
    *No Revs under Load* ... I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I m trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 8, 2010
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      No Revs under Load

      I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I'm trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later mode A 4. This is my first year with the boat. The engine had been running pretty well all summer. Last time out, the engine stalled when I advanced the throttle. I quickly pulled the throttle back and she caught again and continued to run at low revs. I can get only 2-2.25 knots out of her. Doing some research, I surmised that the idle system was OK but that the high speed system was not.

      I drained the Main passage plug and manually pumped some gas through. There might have been a few tiny pieces of crud but the gas looked pretty good. I restarted and she achieved normal (don't have a tach) revs. I can really race the engine in neutral. I put the engine under load and while she didn't threaten to stall, the revs never got very high, even with full throttle.

      I removed the main passage plug again and sprayed carb cleaner into the opening. I also removed and cleaned the spark arrestor (which was pretty cruddy) and sprayed carb cleaner as high as I could into the body of the carb. The results were the same - low revs under load but put her in neutral, she revs like crazy. I have an Indigo prop that was sparkling clean at the beginning of the season.

      I am taking the boat to the yard for winter storage tomorrow and I don't want to open up the carb. I don't have a replacement carburetor gasket and the access to the engine is difficult so I didn't do anything else. Hopefully she won't die on me tomorrow. I'll be running up a narrow channel to the yard.

      Any suggestions about the source of the problem and/or what I could do before I run her tomorrow?

      Thanks,

      Ira B
      S28-1 #104 Morning Star
    • Jim Starkey
      It s been a trillion (good) years since I had an Atomic 4, but it sounds to me like fuel starvation. I d check the amount of fuel coming through the fuel
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 8, 2010
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        It's been a trillion (good) years since I had an Atomic 4, but it sounds to me like fuel starvation.  I'd check the amount of fuel coming through the fuel pump.  If I remember correctly, prediluvian engines had mechanical fuel pumps and later ones electric.  If the pump isn't putting out enough gas, it will stall under load.  You can easily test the electrical pump.  If you have the mechanical pump, throw it out and replace it with a new electrical one before your boat blows up.


        On 10/8/2010 4:42 PM, Ira Baline wrote:
        No Revs under Load

        I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I'm trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later mode A 4. This is my first year with the boat. The engine had been running pretty well all summer. Last time out, the engine stalled when I advanced the throttle. I quickly pulled the throttle back and she caught again and continued to run at low revs. I can get only 2-2.25 knots out of her. Doing some research, I surmised that the idle system was OK but that the high speed system was not.

        I drained the Main passage plug and manually pumped some gas through. There might have been a few tiny pieces of crud but the gas looked pretty good. I restarted and she achieved normal (don't have a tach) revs. I can really race the engine in neutral. I put the engine under load and while she didn't threaten to stall, the revs never got very high, even with full throttle.

        I removed the main passage plug again and sprayed carb cleaner into the opening. I also removed and cleaned the spark arrestor (which was pretty cruddy) and sprayed carb cleaner as high as I could into the body of the carb. The results were the same - low revs under load but put her in neutral, she revs like crazy. I have an Indigo prop that was sparkling clean at the beginning of the season.

        I am taking the boat to the yard for winter storage tomorrow and I don't want to open up the carb. I don't have a replacement carburetor gasket and the access to the engine is difficult so I didn't do anything else. Hopefully she won't die on me tomorrow. I'll be running up a narrow channel to the yard.

        Any suggestions about the source of the problem and/or what I could do before I run her tomorrow?

        Thanks,

        Ira B
        S28-1 #104 Morning Star


        -- 
        Jim Starkey
        Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
        978 526-1376
        
      • David Evans
        Thinking back to gas engines in cars, when the points went, you could idle but not go anywhere.
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 8, 2010
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          Thinking back to gas engines in cars, when the points went, you could idle
          but not "go" anywhere.

          > It's been a trillion (good) years since I had an Atomic 4, but it
          > sounds to me like fuel starvation. I'd check the amount of fuel coming
          > through the fuel pump. If I remember correctly, prediluvian engines had
          > mechanical fuel pumps and later ones electric. If the pump isn't
          > putting out enough gas, it will stall under load. You can easily test
          > the electrical pump. If you have the mechanical pump, throw it out and
          > replace it with a new electrical one before your boat blows up.
          >
          >
          > On 10/8/2010 4:42 PM, Ira Baline wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> *No Revs under Load*
          >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I'm
          >> trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later mode A
          >> 4. This is my first year with the boat. The engine had been running
          >> pretty well all summer. Last time out, the engine stalled when I
          >> advanced the throttle. I quickly pulled the throttle back and she
          >> caught again and continued to run at low revs. I can get only 2-2.25
          >> knots out of her. Doing some research, I surmised that the idle system
          >> was OK but that the high speed system was not.
          >>
          >> I drained the Main passage plug and manually pumped some gas through.
          >> There might have been a few tiny pieces of crud but the gas looked
          >> pretty good. I restarted and she achieved normal (don't have a tach)
          >> revs. I can really race the engine in neutral. I put the engine under
          >> load and while she didn't threaten to stall, the revs never got very
          >> high, even with full throttle.
          >>
          >> I removed the main passage plug again and sprayed carb cleaner into
          >> the opening. I also removed and cleaned the spark arrestor (which
          >> _/was/_ pretty cruddy) and sprayed carb cleaner as high as I could
          >> into the body of the carb. The results were the same - low revs under
          >> load but put her in neutral, she revs like crazy. I have an Indigo
          >> prop that was sparkling clean at the beginning of the season.
          >>
          >> I am taking the boat to the yard for winter storage tomorrow and I
          >> don't want to open up the carb. I don't have a replacement carburetor
          >> gasket and the access to the engine is difficult so I didn't do
          >> anything else. Hopefully she won't die on me tomorrow. I'll be running
          >> up a narrow channel to the yard.
          >>
          >> Any suggestions about the source of the problem and/or what I could do
          >> before I run her tomorrow?
          >>
          >> Thanks,
          >>
          >> Ira B
          >> S28-1 #104 Morning Star
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > --
          > Jim Starkey
          > Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
          > 978 526-1376
          >
          >
        • WAYNE LADD
          Could be gas. I had a similar problem a few years ago with my S28 #12. My problem was in the distributor. The shaft had jumped out of the spring advance at the
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 9, 2010
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            Could be gas. I had a similar problem a few years ago with my S28 #12. My problem was in the distributor. The shaft had jumped out of the spring advance at the bottom. Jiggling the rotor slipped the shaft back into the spring advance. Problem solved.-------------Wladd


            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            From: darwindad2@...
            Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:42:36 -0400
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] No revs under Load

             
            No Revs under Load

            I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I'm trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later mode A 4. This is my first year with the boat. The engine had been running pretty well all summer. Last time out, the engine stalled when I advanced the throttle. I quickly pulled the throttle back and she caught again and continued to run at low revs. I can get only 2-2.25 knots out of her. Doing some research, I surmised that the idle system was OK but that the high speed system was not.

            I drained the Main passage plug and manually pumped some gas through. There might have been a few tiny pieces of crud but the gas looked pretty good. I restarted and she achieved normal (don't have a tach) revs. I can really race the engine in neutral. I put the engine under load and while she didn't threaten to stall, the revs never got very high, even with full throttle.

            I removed the main passage plug again and sprayed carb cleaner into the opening. I also removed and cleaned the spark arrestor (which was pretty cruddy) and sprayed carb cleaner as high as I could into the body of the carb. The results were the same - low revs under load but put her in neutral, she revs like crazy. I have an Indigo prop that was sparkling clean at the beginning of the season.

            I am taking the boat to the yard for winter storage tomorrow and I don't want to open up the carb. I don't have a replacement carburetor gasket and the access to the engine is difficult so I didn't do anything else. Hopefully she won't die on me tomorrow. I'll be running up a narrow channel to the yard.

            Any suggestions about the source of the problem and/or what I could do before I run her tomorrow?

            Thanks,

            Ira B
            S28-1 #104 Morning Star

          • Bill Randall
            I had an Atomic 4 on my previous boat and had a similar situation when the prop was fouled with growth. I would check the prop first. Bill Randall ... -- Bill
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 9, 2010
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              I had an Atomic 4 on my previous boat and had a similar situation when the prop was fouled with growth.  I would check the prop first. 

              Bill Randall

              On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:08 AM, WAYNE LADD <wayneladd@...> wrote:
               

              Could be gas. I had a similar problem a few years ago with my S28 #12. My problem was in the distributor. The shaft had jumped out of the spring advance at the bottom. Jiggling the rotor slipped the shaft back into the spring advance. Problem solved.-------------Wladd


              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              From: darwindad2@...
              Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:42:36 -0400
              Subject: [SabreSailboat] No revs under Load

               
              No Revs under Load

              I also just posted this on the Moyer Marine A4 Community site. So I'm trying to cover my bases. I have a 1974 Sabre 28-1 with a later mode A 4. This is my first year with the boat. The engine had been running pretty well all summer. Last time out, the engine stalled when I advanced the throttle. I quickly pulled the throttle back and she caught again and continued to run at low revs. I can get only 2-2.25 knots out of her. Doing some research, I surmised that the idle system was OK but that the high speed system was not.

              I drained the Main passage plug and manually pumped some gas through. There might have been a few tiny pieces of crud but the gas looked pretty good. I restarted and she achieved normal (don't have a tach) revs. I can really race the engine in neutral. I put the engine under load and while she didn't threaten to stall, the revs never got very high, even with full throttle.

              I removed the main passage plug again and sprayed carb cleaner into the opening. I also removed and cleaned the spark arrestor (which was pretty cruddy) and sprayed carb cleaner as high as I could into the body of the carb. The results were the same - low revs under load but put her in neutral, she revs like crazy. I have an Indigo prop that was sparkling clean at the beginning of the season.

              I am taking the boat to the yard for winter storage tomorrow and I don't want to open up the carb. I don't have a replacement carburetor gasket and the access to the engine is difficult so I didn't do anything else. Hopefully she won't die on me tomorrow. I'll be running up a narrow channel to the yard.

              Any suggestions about the source of the problem and/or what I could do before I run her tomorrow?

              Thanks,

              Ira B
              S28-1 #104 Morning Star




              --
              Bill Randall
              AFI/Filmworks
              2140 South Dixie Hwy Ste 309
              Miami, FL 33133
              305-857-0055
            • Ira Baline
              Report from the Front, The boat is safely on the hard but the trip was a bit of an adventure. Luckily, I had an experienced crew with me and fortuitous that I
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 10, 2010
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                Report from the Front,

                The boat is safely on the hard but the trip was a bit of an adventure. Luckily, I had an experienced crew with me and fortuitous that I had brought a bit if extra gas and prepared the anchor for deployment. Too bad I didn't make the dive and check on the propeller before we left.

                The wind was blowing 20-25 right in our face as we traveled up river and we could only do 2 knots. We barely got through the second of two draw bridges when the engine died. It was a scene - gusty winds pushing us back on the draw bridge, narrow channel, bridge tender calling us to see what the problem was, etc. We thew out the 14 lb Danforth and it grabbed right away, thank goodness.

                While making a few calls to try and get a tow from the yard where we were going and/or help from the Harbor master, my crew asked if we still had gas. DOH! The engine carburetion was so bad we had burned through the 4 gallons I had thought would be enough for a 2 hour trip. The engine caught after I dumped in a 1 gallon reserve and we started back up river but we could barely make over a knot and a half.

                Rather than risk running out of fuel again in the narrow channel, we put in at the first private pier and called for a tow. We had a pleasant 2 hour wait until the tow boat got us to the marina and right to the lift. Eager to see the bottom, we were amazed to see the 3 bladed bronze prop totally encrusted with barnacles! How it pushed us at all is something to ponder. A quick power washing while still in the slings got most of "nature's concrete" off. By the way the zincs on the shaft had either totally eroded away or had fallen off a couple of weeks ago judging by the growth where they had been.

                So now I'm thinking an overhaul is in the engine's near future and a new mask and snorkel in mine and next year I'll carry a 5 gallon reserve!

                Ira B.

                S-28-1 Morning Star

              • Gib Metcalf
                well, you ll probably never have as eventual a trip up the Danvers as this year. That s something to be thankful for. See you in the yard. Gib On 10/10/2010
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 10, 2010
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                  well, you'll probably never have as eventual a trip up the Danvers as this year.  That's something to be thankful for.  See you in the yard.
                  Gib

                  On 10/10/2010 1:33 PM, Ira Baline wrote:  

                  Report from the Front,


                  The boat is safely on the hard but the trip was a bit of an adventure. Luckily, I had an experienced crew with me and fortuitous that I had brought a bit if extra gas and prepared the anchor for deployment. Too bad I didn't make the dive and check on the propeller before we left.

                  The wind was blowing 20-25 right in our face as we traveled up river and we could only do 2 knots. We barely got through the second of two draw bridges when the engine died. It was a scene - gusty winds pushing us back on the draw bridge, narrow channel, bridge tender calling us to see what the problem was, etc. We thew out the 14 lb Danforth and it grabbed right away, thank goodness.

                  While making a few calls to try and get a tow from the yard where we were going and/or help from the Harbor master, my crew asked if we still had gas. DOH! The engine carburetion was so bad we had burned through the 4 gallons I had thought would be enough for a 2 hour trip. The engine caught after I dumped in a 1 gallon reserve and we started back up river but we could barely make over a knot and a half.

                  Rather than risk running out of fuel again in the narrow channel, we put in at the first private pier and called for a tow. We had a pleasant 2 hour wait until the tow boat got us to the marina and right to the lift. Eager to see the bottom, we were amazed to see the 3 bladed bronze prop totally encrusted with barnacles! How it pushed us at all is something to ponder. A quick power washing while still in the slings got most of "nature's concrete" off. By the way the zincs on the shaft had either totally eroded away or had fallen off a couple of weeks ago judging by the growth where they had been.

                  So now I'm thinking an overhaul is in the engine's near future and a new mask and snorkel in mine and next year I'll carry a 5 gallon reserve!

                  Ira B.

                  S-28-1 Morning Star

                • oldsailor36@verizon.net
                  Glad to hear that you made it alright. I read your post about your A4 problems too late to offer any suggestions but now that you have survived your little
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 11, 2010
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                    Glad to hear that you made it alright.

                    I read your post about your A4 problems too late to offer any suggestions but now that you have survived your little adventure you might consider these before going down river:

                    Since you say that you serviced the carb and still have stalling problems under load but not idle, your problem may be that the timing of your engine is off and/or the centifugal advance in the distributor isn't functioning properly. To check the advance feature the distributor has to be removed to be tested.

                    As to the fouling prop, contrary to what you might think it is not overloading the engine. As the prop fouls what happens is that the engine power becomes increasingly dissipated by the fouling due to the reduced efficiency of the prop leaving less available for forward thrust. That's why you're seeing lots of fuel usage even though you're making far less headway. If the prop had been clean you probably would have seen the same stalling or low rev problem under load but while moving faster.

                    It's not clear from your post what sort of fuel filtration you have but if any of those filters are very fouled the flow restriction could allow revving at idle but prevent sufficient flow when the prop was revved up.

                    Jer



                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Ira Baline <darwindad2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Report from the Front,
                    >
                    > The boat is safely on the hard but the trip was a bit of an adventure.
                    > Luckily, I had an experienced crew with me and fortuitous that I had brought
                    > a bit if extra gas and prepared the anchor for deployment. Too bad I didn't
                    > make the dive and check on the propeller before we left.
                    >
                    > The wind was blowing 20-25 right in our face as we traveled up river and we
                    > could only do 2 knots. We barely got through the second of two draw bridges
                    > when the engine died. It was a scene - gusty winds pushing us back on the
                    > draw bridge, narrow channel, bridge tender calling us to see what
                    > the problem was, etc. We thew out the 14 lb Danforth and it grabbed right
                    > away, thank goodness.
                    >
                    > While making a few calls to try and get a tow from the yard where we were
                    > going and/or help from the Harbor master, my crew asked if we still had gas.
                    > DOH! The engine carburetion was so bad we had burned through the 4 gallons I
                    > had thought would be enough for a 2 hour trip. The engine caught after I
                    > dumped in a 1 gallon reserve and we started back up river but we could
                    > barely make over a knot and a half.
                    >
                    > Rather than risk running out of fuel again in the narrow channel, we put in
                    > at the first private pier and called for a tow. We had a pleasant 2 hour
                    > wait until the tow boat got us to the marina and right to the lift. Eager to
                    > see the bottom, we were amazed to see the 3 bladed bronze prop totally
                    > encrusted with barnacles! How it pushed us at all is something to ponder. A
                    > quick power washing while still in the slings got most of "nature's
                    > concrete" off. By the way the zincs on the shaft had either totally eroded
                    > away or had fallen off a couple of weeks ago judging by the growth where
                    > they had been.
                    >
                    > So now I'm thinking an overhaul is in the engine's near future and a new
                    > mask and snorkel in mine and next year I'll carry a 5 gallon reserve!
                    >
                    > Ira B.
                    >
                    > S-28-1 Morning Star
                    >
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