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Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: CNG oven

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  • Ira Baline
    I have a CNG cooktop on my S 28-1. The tall (scuba shape) steel bottle and valves are fastened vertically in the forward part of the starboard lazarette. I
    Message 1 of 31 , Sep 30, 2010
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      I have a CNG cooktop on my S 28-1. The tall (scuba shape) steel bottle and valves are fastened vertically in the forward part of the starboard lazarette. I also have a spare tank. They are heavy!

      The surveyor that looked at the boat this year had a concern about the bottles being enclosed in a space adjacent to the engine compartment. But he checked the ABYC and it was OK as long as the two compartments were separated by a section of the engine enclosure even though it is not air tight.

      There have been a couple of comments about venting enclosures and getting a propane sniffer. CNG is lighter than air and does not need to have its locker vented. Mine are not air tight. Also, CNG doesn't pool in the cockpit or low spots like propane or gas. I suppose some could get trapped in the woodwork around the cooktop. The only thing my system was missing was a remote shut off device (maybe a solenoid valve) away from the cook top.

      That being said, I will be testing the system for corrosion, wear and leaks this winter!

      Ira
      Morning Star S28-1

      On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
       

      Jim -
      There are lpg tanks made to be used in a horizontal position (think fork lift). They would be the tank of choice in my cng locker.  Using them vertically would have the same effect as laying a vertical tank on its side.
      Pete

      On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...> wrote:
       

      On 9/30/2010 3:32 PM, Leonard Bertaux wrote:
      Jim

      Your memory is correct, the 38mkii tanks are mounted horizontally. And why is it not a good idea to use the the 6lb alum lpg tanks in a horizontal configuration?

      The simplest answer is that the overfill protection valve will cut off the gas -- open the tank valve and nothing happens.  The more serious issue if the possibility of liquid propane getting through the regulator.  There's a reason, you know, that NASA doesn't equip the space shuttle with propane stoves or grills.




      It sounds like there may be a chance there is a LPG conversion kit out there for a four burner/oven/broiler range called "Gas Systems" but probably manufactured by Seaward. I'll try Seaward again over the winter and see if I can get any traction. Sooner or later we're going to want to head to the islands and it would be helpful not to have to replace the whole range.

      Len Bertaux
      Walkabout S38mkii

      On Sep 30, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Jim Starkey wrote:

       

      If I remember correctly, the 38 Mk II had a horizontal gas locker on the starboard side.  The mandatory overflow prevention value in standard propane tanks, not to mention common sense, requires that they be mounted more or less vertically.  The standard tanks work just fine in later versions of the S36, but I really don't know about other models.

      I believe that other folks have had custom LPG tanks build to fit other boats, but I don't know the details.

      Incidentally, the history on Sabre CNG stoves is something like this:  The original Gas Systems, Inc. was set up to run the CNG replacement tank business in New England.  To prime the pump, they OEMed stoves from Seaward.  As almost everyone has noticed, the stoves say Gas Equipment on the outside and Seaward on the inside.  The CNG tank replacement business never made critical mass to take off, but the stove business was doing OK.  So the parent Gas Systems spun off the private labeled stove business as a separate corporation.   The new stove business, however, had no involvement in the older stoves, and had absolutely no interest in acquiring any liability for the earlier products.  Owners of Sabre stoves are about as welcome at the new Gas Systems as a certain black Hawaiian at a Tea Party rally.   They are more likely to tell you that the original stoves had plutonium cores and have to given an EPA supervised burial under 120' of high density concrete than to refer you to the guys who can actually help you.

      All that said, the conversion to propane requires:

      • New bottles
      • A new regulator (the old solenoid can be reused)
      • A full new gas line (the hosts are made to different standards)
      • A conversion kit consisting of a new manifold fitting (again, different standards), a replacement thermostat, and new jets for the burners, oven, and oven pilot.
      A propane sniffer should be a no-brainer.  Current standards require a two channel sniffer with one sensor under the stove and another in the bilge.  You can install a single channel sniffer yourself, but a reputable yard will probably insist on a dual-channel unit.  If you install it yourself keep in mind that the sensors have a fatal allergy to water, so immersion will unpleasantly expensive (don't ask how I know).


      On 9/30/2010 2:51 PM, David Evans wrote:
      I could be tempted! Forget the Origo.
      dge
      
      
      I'm putting 4 5lb LPG tanks in the same port aft lazarette as the CNG
      tanks.  They fit without modification to the tank holder.  This is on a
      1989 34 Targa, but the standard configuration must have something similar.
      
      
      
      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Sidwa" <ChasSidwa@...>
      wrote:
      
      Where can you put the propane tank on a 1989 34MKII?  Charlie
      
      
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: james dase<mailto:doggmann@...>
        To:
      Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] CNG oven
      
      
      
              We did this conversion, with parts from Seaward, and it did
      indeed make me a happy man...
      
              jamie
      
              --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Jim Starkey
      <jstarkey@...<mailto:jstarkey@...>> wrote:
      
      
                From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...<mailto:jstarkey@...>>
                Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] CNG oven
                To:
      Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
      
      
      
                Mostly like the thermostat is dead.  Seaward almost certainly
      built the stove and can probably sell you a replacement for
      about $100.  Don't bother calling Gas Systems, whose name is
      on the front.  In the unlikely event they're still in
      business, they won't touch the stove with a 10 foot carbon
      fiber spinnaker pole because of product liability issues.
      
                But warning:  Seaward used to sell a propane conversion kit
      for the same money, and the kit contains a replacement
      thermostat.  If you're not extremely careful, you'll be
      looking at a propane conversion that will make you a happy
      man.
      
      
      
                On 9/29/2010 3:23 PM, Mike Merriman wrote:
                  My CNG oven won’t light â€" I can get the pilot lit â€"
      but the burner will not light â€" has anyone faced this and
      fixed it??
      
      
      
                Mike Merriman
      
                mike.merriman1@...<http://ca.mc883.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mike.merriman1@...>
      
                508 523 7724
      
                978 561 1059 fax
      
                http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemerriman<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemerriman>
      
      
      
      
      
      
      --
      Jim Starkey
      Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
      978 526-1376
      
      
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      -- 
      Jim Starkey
      Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
      978 526-1376
      




      -- 
      Jim Starkey
      Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
      978 526-1376
      



    • Richard Peirce
      Me too! This is on my list for next year. Thanks for the info in advance. r from the iPhone of Richard Peirce CHOPPER PICTURES INC. mobile +1(416)822-3330
      Message 31 of 31 , Oct 11, 2010
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        Me too!  This is on my list for next year. 

        Thanks for the info in advance. 

        r

        from the iPhone of

        Richard Peirce
        CHOPPER PICTURES INC.

        mobile +1(416)822-3330
        office   +1(416)466-7333

        On Oct 10, 2010, at 10:04 AM, Leonard Bertaux <lbertaux@...> wrote:

         

        Matt
        I have the same oven and am very interested to see hoe the needle valve modification will work  Please keep me posted!

        Leonard Bertaux

        Sent from my iPhone,

        On Oct 9, 2010, at 11:16 AM, "MATT" <funjohnson@...> wrote:

         

        I just recieved the new LPG orifice for my Regal CNG stove today. They were $43.35 shipped from Todd at Sure Marine (206) 784-9903. The stove burners should be easy, but the oven needs a bit more work. Todd has never converted a Regal stove over to LPG, but gave some pointers on how to adjust the needle valve for the oven.

        I'll post some photos when I start the project this spring.

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "MATT" <funjohnson@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm putting 4 5lb LPG tanks in the same port aft lazarette as the CNG tanks. They fit without modification to the tank holder. This is on a 1989 34 Targa, but the standard configuration must have something similar.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Sidwa" <ChasSidwa@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Where can you put the propane tank on a 1989 34MKII? Charlie
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: james dase<mailto:doggmann@>
        > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:55 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] CNG oven
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > We did this conversion, with parts from Seaward, and it did indeed make me a happy man...
        > >
        > > jamie
        > >
        > > --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@<mailto:jstarkey@>> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Jim Starkey <jstarkey@<mailto:jstarkey@>>
        > > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] CNG oven
        > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mostly like the thermostat is dead. Seaward almost certainly built the stove and can probably sell you a replacement for about $100. Don't bother calling Gas Systems, whose name is on the front. In the unlikely event they're still in business, they won't touch the stove with a 10 foot carbon fiber spinnaker pole because of product liability issues.
        > >
        > > But warning: Seaward used to sell a propane conversion kit for the same money, and the kit contains a replacement thermostat. If you're not extremely careful, you'll be looking at a propane conversion that will make you a happy man.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On 9/29/2010 3:23 PM, Mike Merriman wrote:
        > > My CNG oven won’t light â€" I can get the pilot lit â€" but the burner will not light â€" has anyone faced this and fixed it??
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mike Merriman
        > >
        > > mike.merriman1@<http://ca.mc883.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mike.merriman1@>
        > >
        > > 508 523 7724
        > >
        > > 978 561 1059 fax
        > >
        > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemerriman<http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemerriman>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Jim Starkey
        > > Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
        > > 978 526-1376
        > >
        >

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