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Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Gel Coat deck repair, '79 S34-I

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  • Dave Lochner
    Harry and Barend, Minicraft will ask if you want gelcoat with wax or without. In theory, the wax will float to the surface and seal the gelcoat from the air,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 2, 2010
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      Harry and Barend,

      Minicraft will ask if you want gelcoat with wax or without. In theory, the wax will float to the surface and seal the gelcoat from the air, allowing it to fully cure. In practice, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

      John K had a piece of advice that works well. After the gelcoat has cured a bit, if it is still tacky spray it with Turtle Wax Spray wax. It works and is a lot cheaper than the stuff they sell to do the same job. 

      Dave


      On Jul 2, 2010, at 5:24 PM, barend27 wrote:

       

      Hi Harry:

      I agree, MiniCraft is very expensive and even if they have the original color, it will not match due to fading on your boat.

      I have done gelcoat repairs before on an older boat. Used the gelcoat repair kit from Evercoat: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=14946&keywords=gelcoat&radkm=on&km=entire

      They have instructions in the documentation on how to mix various colors. (For instance, to get "Flag Blue, you mix blue and black.) If you need only 1 or 2 colors, you can buy a bigger pot of gelcoat (comes in white) and only the 1 or 2 tubes of pigment. I think you can get a bigger pot for about $30 and the pigment tubes are about $5 each. You may have to download the color mixing instructions from Evercoat's website if you don't buy the kit.

      NOTE 1: Gelcoat does not cure in air. So you have to cover it with a piece of plastic, squeeze out all the air and tape. You can also buy a can of stuff to spray over the gelcoat that will make it cure. I used Ziploc bags, cut up, with a lot of success.

      NOTE 2: When you mix, make a big batch. Chances are that the color will not be the same the next time you mix. So you want to do as many areas close to each other at the same time as you can.

      When you are done, you will want to sand the gealcoat to get it level. I used 400 grid wet paper. It was soft enough and sanded well.

      Good luck and let us know how it turs out.

      Regards
      //Barend (Yen Shon, S34II #376)

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
      >
      > Greetings,
      >
      > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
      >
      > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
      >
      > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
      >
      > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
      > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
      > * Does anyone else make something close?
      >
      > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
      >
      > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
      >
      > Harry
      > Rantum Scoot
      > '79 S34-I #063
      > Luce Creek, Annapolis
      >


    • barend27
      Thanks for the info Dave, handy to know. The product I referred to is from Evercoat and sells for $10. But to your point, works the same as Spray Wax and
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 2, 2010
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        Thanks for the info Dave, handy to know.

        The product I referred to is from Evercoat and sells for $10. But to your point, works the same as Spray Wax and probably more expensive.

        http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=14947&keywords=gelcoat%2bcure&radkm=on&km=entire

        //Barend

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
        >
        > Harry and Barend,
        >
        > Minicraft will ask if you want gelcoat with wax or without. In theory, the wax will float to the surface and seal the gelcoat from the air, allowing it to fully cure. In practice, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
        >
        > John K had a piece of advice that works well. After the gelcoat has cured a bit, if it is still tacky spray it with Turtle Wax Spray wax. It works and is a lot cheaper than the stuff they sell to do the same job.
        >
        > Dave
        >
        >
        > On Jul 2, 2010, at 5:24 PM, barend27 wrote:
        >
        > Hi Harry:
        >
        > I agree, MiniCraft is very expensive and even if they have the original color, it will not match due to fading on your boat.
        >
        > I have done gelcoat repairs before on an older boat. Used the gelcoat repair kit from Evercoat: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=14946&keywords=gelcoat&radkm=on&km=entire
        >
        > They have instructions in the documentation on how to mix various colors. (For instance, to get "Flag Blue, you mix blue and black.) If you need only 1 or 2 colors, you can buy a bigger pot of gelcoat (comes in white) and only the 1 or 2 tubes of pigment. I think you can get a bigger pot for about $30 and the pigment tubes are about $5 each. You may have to download the color mixing instructions from Evercoat's website if you don't buy the kit.
        >
        > NOTE 1: Gelcoat does not cure in air. So you have to cover it with a piece of plastic, squeeze out all the air and tape. You can also buy a can of stuff to spray over the gelcoat that will make it cure. I used Ziploc bags, cut up, with a lot of success.
        >
        > NOTE 2: When you mix, make a big batch. Chances are that the color will not be the same the next time you mix. So you want to do as many areas close to each other at the same time as you can.
        >
        > When you are done, you will want to sand the gealcoat to get it level. I used 400 grid wet paper. It was soft enough and sanded well.
        >
        > Good luck and let us know how it turs out.
        >
        > Regards
        > //Barend (Yen Shon, S34II #376)
        >
        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <HarryK@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Greetings,
        > >
        > > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
        > >
        > > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
        > >
        > > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
        > >
        > > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
        > > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
        > > * Does anyone else make something close?
        > >
        > > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
        > >
        > > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
        > >
        > > Harry
        > > Rantum Scoot
        > > '79 S34-I #063
        > > Luce Creek, Annapolis
        > >
        >
      • sailor11767
        Actually, it s not the topsides. I m fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I m working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing,
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 2, 2010
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          Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.

          I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.

          My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?

          Harry

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
          >
          > Harry,
          >
          > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
          >
          > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
          >
          > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
          >
          > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
          >
          > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
          >
          > Dave
          >
          >
          >
          > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
          >
          > Greetings,
          >
          > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
          >
          > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
          >
          > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
          >
          > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
          > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
          > * Does anyone else make something close?
          >
          > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
          >
          > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
          >
          > Harry
          > Rantum Scoot
          > '79 S34-I #063
          > Luce Creek, Annapolis
          >
        • Dave Lochner
          Harry, Yes. Works the same. Just remove the wax after it cures. You can also buy a flexible mold to match the nonskid. I have not tried it yet. Dave Sent from
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 3, 2010
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            Harry,

            Yes. Works the same. Just remove the wax after it cures. You can also buy a flexible mold to match the nonskid. I have not tried it yet. 

            Dave

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jul 2, 2010, at 11:27 PM, sailor11767 <HarryK@...> wrote:

             

            Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.

            I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.

            My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?

            Harry

            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
            >
            > Harry,
            >
            > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
            >
            > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
            >
            > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
            >
            > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
            >
            > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
            >
            > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
            >
            > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
            >
            > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
            > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
            > * Does anyone else make something close?
            >
            > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
            >
            > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
            >
            > Harry
            > Rantum Scoot
            > '79 S34-I #063
            > Luce Creek, Annapolis
            >

          • Chas
            Harry I used the minicraft gelcoat paste to do several deck repairs to my 79 MkI and the match was very close, even closer after 2 years. Charlie Pajama
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 3, 2010
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              Harry I used the minicraft gelcoat paste to do several deck repairs to my 79' MkI and the match was very close, even closer after 2 years. Charlie Pajama Girl S34 MkI #62



              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
              >
              > Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.
              >
              > I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.
              >
              > My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?
              >
              > Harry
              >
              > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Harry,
              > >
              > > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
              > >
              > > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
              > >
              > > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
              > >
              > > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
              > >
              > > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
              > >
              > > Dave
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
              > >
              > > Greetings,
              > >
              > > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
              > >
              > > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
              > >
              > > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
              > >
              > > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
              > > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
              > > * Does anyone else make something close?
              > >
              > > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
              > >
              > > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
              > >
              > > Harry
              > > Rantum Scoot
              > > '79 S34-I #063
              > > Luce Creek, Annapolis
              > >
              >
            • Leonard Bertaux
              Harry I had a saucer size spider web on my port cockpit bulkhead when I purchased from the PO. I purchased gelcoat with wax from Minicraft to match. Ground it
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 4, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Harry
                I had a saucer size spider web on my port cockpit bulkhead when I purchased from the PO. I purchased gelcoat with wax from Minicraft to match. Ground it out and filled with new gelcoat. It took a second application because of the size. If you know it's there you can sometimes see it if the lighting is just right. But its nearly perfect. 

                Leonard Bertaux

                Sent from my iPhone,

                On Jul 2, 2010, at 11:27 PM, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:

                 

                Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.

                I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.

                My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?

                Harry

                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                >
                > Harry,
                >
                > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
                >
                > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
                >
                > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
                >
                > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
                >
                > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
                >
                > Dave
                >
                >
                >
                > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
                >
                > Greetings,
                >
                > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
                >
                > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
                >
                > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
                >
                > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
                > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
                > * Does anyone else make something close?
                >
                > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
                >
                > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
                >
                > Harry
                > Rantum Scoot
                > '79 S34-I #063
                > Luce Creek, Annapolis
                >

              • sailor11767
                Well, it seems I have heard to kinds of replies (and they aren t mutually exclusive). * Damn, those folks are criminally expensive! and.... * Damn, they do
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 4, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well, it seems I have heard to kinds of replies (and they aren't mutually exclusive).

                  * Damn, those folks are criminally expensive!

                  and....

                  * Damn, they do what they say!

                  Hmm.... a pint is a lifetime supply (unless I really do something bad!), and so in the grand scheme it may be worth it. Sounds like it is, anyway.

                  Thanks for all the input.

                  Harry

                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Leonard Bertaux <lbertaux@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Harry
                  > I had a saucer size spider web on my port cockpit bulkhead when I purchased from the PO. I purchased gelcoat with wax from Minicraft to match. Ground it out and filled with new gelcoat. It took a second application because of the size. If you know it's there you can sometimes see it if the lighting is just right. But its nearly perfect.
                  >
                  > Leonard Bertaux
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone,
                  >
                  > On Jul 2, 2010, at 11:27 PM, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.
                  > >
                  > > I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.
                  > >
                  > > My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?
                  > >
                  > > Harry
                  > >
                  > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Harry,
                  > > >
                  > > > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
                  > > >
                  > > > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
                  > > >
                  > > > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
                  > > >
                  > > > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dave
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Greetings,
                  > > >
                  > > > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
                  > > >
                  > > > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
                  > > > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
                  > > > * Does anyone else make something close?
                  > > >
                  > > > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
                  > > >
                  > > > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
                  > > >
                  > > > Harry
                  > > > Rantum Scoot
                  > > > '79 S34-I #063
                  > > > Luce Creek, Annapolis
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Dave Lochner
                  Bob, Minicraft will also try to sell you their thinner (reducing solvent) for an outrageous price. Resist the sales pitch. If you don t use it in 30 days it
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 4, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bob,

                    Minicraft will also try to sell you their thinner (reducing solvent) for an outrageous price. Resist the sales pitch. If you don't use it in 30 days it turns to jelly. I've used acetone with acceptable results.

                    Dave


                    On Jul 4, 2010, at 10:54 AM, sailor11767 wrote:

                     

                    Well, it seems I have heard to kinds of replies (and they aren't mutually exclusive).

                    * Damn, those folks are criminally expensive!

                    and....

                    * Damn, they do what they say!

                    Hmm.... a pint is a lifetime supply (unless I really do something bad!), and so in the grand scheme it may be worth it. Sounds like it is, anyway.

                    Thanks for all the input.

                    Harry

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Leonard Bertaux <lbertaux@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Harry
                    > I had a saucer size spider web on my port cockpit bulkhead when I purchased from the PO. I purchased gelcoat with wax from Minicraft to match. Ground it out and filled with new gelcoat. It took a second application because of the size. If you know it's there you can sometimes see it if the lighting is just right. But its nearly perfect.
                    >
                    > Leonard Bertaux
                    >
                    > Sent from my iPhone,
                    >
                    > On Jul 2, 2010, at 11:27 PM, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.
                    > >
                    > > I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.
                    > >
                    > > My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?
                    > >
                    > > Harry
                    > >
                    > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Harry,
                    > > >
                    > > > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
                    > > >
                    > > > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
                    > > >
                    > > > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
                    > > >
                    > > > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+Spray+Gun+Kit
                    > > >
                    > > > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
                    > > >
                    > > > Dave
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Greetings,
                    > > >
                    > > > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
                    > > >
                    > > > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
                    > > > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
                    > > > * Does anyone else make something close?
                    > > >
                    > > > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
                    > > >
                    > > > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
                    > > >
                    > > > Harry
                    > > > Rantum Scoot
                    > > > '79 S34-I #063
                    > > > Luce Creek, Annapolis
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >


                  • Dave Lochner
                    uhh, I mean Harry. On Jul 4, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Dave Lochner wrote: Bob, Minicraft will also try to sell you their thinner (reducing solvent) for an outrageous
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 4, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      uhh,  I mean Harry.


                      On Jul 4, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Dave Lochner wrote:

                       

                      Bob,


                      Minicraft will also try to sell you their thinner (reducing solvent) for an outrageous price. Resist the sales pitch. If you don't use it in 30 days it turns to jelly. I've used acetone with acceptable results.

                      Dave


                      On Jul 4, 2010, at 10:54 AM, sailor11767 wrote:

                       

                      Well, it seems I have heard to kinds of replies (and they aren't mutually exclusive).

                      * Damn, those folks are criminally expensive!

                      and....

                      * Damn, they do what they say!

                      Hmm.... a pint is a lifetime supply (unless I really do something bad!), and so in the grand scheme it may be worth it. Sounds like it is, anyway.

                      Thanks for all the input.

                      Harry

                      --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Leonard Bertaux <lbertaux@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Harry
                      > I had a saucer size spider web on my port cockpit bulkhead when I purchased from the PO. I purchased gelcoat with wax from Minicraft to match. Ground it out and filled with new gelcoat. It took a second application because of the size. If you know it's there you can sometimes see it if the lighting is just right. But its nearly perfect.
                      >
                      > Leonard Bertaux
                      >
                      > Sent from my iPhone,
                      >
                      > On Jul 2, 2010, at 11:27 PM, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Actually, it's not the topsides. I'm fortunate there, in that there are very few scars on the hull. I'm working on the deck, where gloss, sanding, waxing, and such aren't in the equation. It also makes the color match perhaps a little easier, since I'm not talking about large, flat, shinny surfaces.
                      > >
                      > > I took a chunk of the deck (not something you can do every day!) to Home Depot and stuck it in their paint color machine. They say it's their color 740C-2, Cozy Cottage. I think it's closer to 740C-1, Seaside Sand. I'm wondering if they can tell me the pigment mix, and perhaps I can use that as a guide for gelcoat.
                      > >
                      > > My spots are under dime size, scattered around. Has anyone used Minicraft for deck colors, rather than hull colors?
                      > >
                      > > Harry
                      > >
                      > > --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Harry,
                      > > >
                      > > > I've used the Minicraft Gelcoat on my 1981 Sabre 30. The color matches well, but you are correct you can see the color variations under the right lighting conditions.
                      > > >
                      > > > A few years ago a storm caused a lot of gelcoat damage to my bow. I used the minicraft gelcoat and buffed it out, if you don't know about the repair, you'll never see it. If you know about the repair, it can be seen if you get close with the right light. The repair was more obvious the first year, but as time passes the difference fades.
                      > > >
                      > > > If at some point you are planning to paint the topsides, then the WM gelcoat is probably a good deal, if not, I'd spring for the Minicraft.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Prevail MiniSprayers work well for small areas, up to a couple of square feet. http://www.jamestow ndistributors. com/userportal/ show_product. do?pid=2155&familyName=Preval+ Spray+Gun+ Kit
                      > > >
                      > > > If you go with the Minicraft gelcoat, try to feather in the repair. It will help to hide the transition. Spray it on a little thick and wetsand it down to the original gelcoat. This helps to hide the transition.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dave
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Jul 2, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sailor11767 wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Greetings,
                      > > >
                      > > > I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
                      > > >
                      > > > Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
                      > > >
                      > > > So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
                      > > > * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
                      > > > * Does anyone else make something close?
                      > > >
                      > > > I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
                      > > >
                      > > > Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
                      > > >
                      > > > Harry
                      > > > Rantum Scoot
                      > > > '79 S34-I #063
                      > > > Luce Creek, Annapolis
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >




                    • John Coffey
                      IMO Minicraft is a big ripoff. Expensive and incredible shipping charges. Never again.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 5, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        IMO Minicraft is a big ripoff. Expensive and incredible shipping charges. Never again.

                        On Fri Jul 2nd, 2010 5:41 PM EDT Dave Lochner wrote:

                        >Harry and Barend,
                        >
                        >Minicraft will ask if you want gelcoat with wax or without. In theory, the wax will float to the surface and seal the gelcoat from the air, allowing it to fully cure. In practice, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
                        >
                        >John K had a piece of advice that works well. After the gelcoat has cured a bit, if it is still tacky spray it with Turtle Wax Spray wax. It works and is a lot cheaper than the stuff they sell to do the same job.
                        >
                        >Dave
                        >
                        >
                        >On Jul 2, 2010, at 5:24 PM, barend27 wrote:
                        >
                        >Hi Harry:
                        >
                        >I agree, MiniCraft is very expensive and even if they have the original color, it will not match due to fading on your boat.
                        >
                        >I have done gelcoat repairs before on an older boat. Used the gelcoat repair kit from Evercoat: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=14946&keywords=gelcoat&radkm=on&km=entire
                        >
                        >They have instructions in the documentation on how to mix various colors. (For instance, to get "Flag Blue, you mix blue and black.) If you need only 1 or 2 colors, you can buy a bigger pot of gelcoat (comes in white) and only the 1 or 2 tubes of pigment. I think you can get a bigger pot for about $30 and the pigment tubes are about $5 each. You may have to download the color mixing instructions from Evercoat's website if you don't buy the kit.
                        >
                        >NOTE 1: Gelcoat does not cure in air. So you have to cover it with a piece of plastic, squeeze out all the air and tape. You can also buy a can of stuff to spray over the gelcoat that will make it cure. I used Ziploc bags, cut up, with a lot of success.
                        >
                        >NOTE 2: When you mix, make a big batch. Chances are that the color will not be the same the next time you mix. So you want to do as many areas close to each other at the same time as you can.
                        >
                        >When you are done, you will want to sand the gealcoat to get it level. I used 400 grid wet paper. It was soft enough and sanded well.
                        >
                        >Good luck and let us know how it turs out.
                        >
                        >Regards
                        >//Barend (Yen Shon, S34II #376)
                        >
                        >--- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "sailor11767" <HarryK@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Greetings,
                        >>
                        >> I have now filled numerous deck wounds. The old fastener was removed, the hole slightly oversized (mostly 1/4, a few 5/16), bad/wet balsa was removed by various tricks, several months of drying was allowed, Ethylene Glycol (effective rot treatment) was applied to saturation and the cleaned of the hole, more drying was allowed, and last night the holes have been backfilled with epoxy with micro-fiber (milled glass) as a filler/thickener. This is a major step forward! Still many more deck issues, but it's nice to make progress....
                        >>
                        >> Anyway, these holes are now structurally sound and immune to water. However, they are cosmetically ugly and since they are epoxy they will degrade in UV (if the cover ever comes off). I filled them a touch low, with the intention of "topping off" with gelcoat.
                        >>
                        >> I have a 30 year old boat with original decks. Clearly, they aren't up to the same color and gloss that Sabre shipped it with! I've been to MiniCraft.Com, as I've been told they are "the source." I have two problems. First, they claim to have been providing OEM's with colors since 1984, which is 5 years after my boat. Second, a pint of gelcoat is $126 plus unspecified shipping (vs West's $30-$40 cash and carry). And sort of third, even if they WERE correct on their color, it's been a lot of years.
                        >>
                        >> So, the question for those with older Sabre boats:
                        >> * Does MiniCraft gelcoat match the decks when this old?
                        >> * Does anyone else make something close?
                        >>
                        >> I have friends who patch their Imron deck jobs with Home Depot exterior latex in a "close enough" color. While not a perfect match, it holds up well and is MUCH cheaper than the cost to spot repair a quarter size chip in the Imron!
                        >>
                        >> Any thoughts? Older boat owners are especially desired.
                        >>
                        >> Harry
                        >> Rantum Scoot
                        >> '79 S34-I #063
                        >> Luce Creek, Annapolis
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
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