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Cautionary-- Whale Gulper Grouper waste pump

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  • Carter Brey
    FYI, fellas. Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 22, 2010
      FYI, fellas.

      Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to keep the USCG happy.

      The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile valves to conduct flow in one direction.

      Worked fine in testing.

      Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.

      Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.

      Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit, you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.

      One more project which I've had to do twice.

      Carter Brey
      S28 MkII Delphine
      City Island, NY
    • Jim Starkey
      I used to argue with my father in law, a tightfisted yankee curmudgeon of the old school, that wasn t necessarily how much you paid for something that mattered
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 22, 2010
        I used to argue with my father in law, a tightfisted yankee curmudgeon of the old school, that wasn't necessarily how much you paid for something that mattered but the number of times you had to pay it.

        But since it's "still winter" (New England for early spring), I'll toss in relevant yarn.  Many seasons back when the head law first took effect, a local boatyard advertised the "y-not" system consisting of Y-valve and a rubberized bland tank that could go anywhere.  The clear intention was the tank would never be used, which was important because it couldn't be emptied.  A fellow club member, also a senior Boston bank (back when it was a respectable profession), had the yard install the "y-not" in his Sabre 28 and forgot about it.  Later in the season, he found the head increasingly hard to pump.  Being a soft-of resourceful sort of fellow, he grabbed a flashlight and a screwdriver and started loosening hose clamps ... followed by the inevitable.  He survived, his reputation did not, and he was awarded the club's "most spectacular screwup award" at our annual meeting.

        So, boys and girls, beware of pressurized shit.


        Carter Brey wrote:
        FYI, fellas.

        Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to keep the USCG happy.

        The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile valves to conduct flow in one direction.

        Worked fine in testing.

        Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.

        Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.

        Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit, you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.

        One more project which I've had to do twice.

        Carter Brey
        S28 MkII Delphine
        City Island, NY


        -- 
        Jim Starkey
        Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
        978 526-1376
        
      • yaf001
        Jim, I’m going to re-read your anecdote this evening with a snifter of Cockspur overproof rum. What a gas! Thanks for sharing J Yves From:
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 22, 2010

          Jim,

           

          I’m going to re-read your anecdote this evening with a snifter of Cockspur overproof rum. What a gas! Thanks for sharing J

           

          Yves

           

           

          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Starkey
          Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:06
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Cautionary-- Whale Gulper Grouper waste pump

           

           

          I used to argue with my father in law, a tightfisted yankee curmudgeon of the old school, that wasn't necessarily how much you paid for something that mattered but the number of times you had to pay it.

          But since it's "still winter" (New England for early spring), I'll toss in relevant yarn.  Many seasons back when the head law first took effect, a local boatyard advertised the "y-not" system consisting of Y-valve and a rubberized bland tank that could go anywhere.  The clear intention was the tank would never be used, which was important because it couldn't be emptied.  A fellow club member, also a senior Boston bank (back when it was a respectable profession), had the yard install the "y-not" in his Sabre 28 and forgot about it.  Later in the season, he found the head increasingly hard to pump.  Being a soft-of resourceful sort of fellow, he grabbed a flashlight and a screwdriver and started loosening hose clamps ... followed by the inevitable.  He survived, his reputation did not, and he was awarded the club's "most spectacular screwup award" at our annual meeting.

          So, boys and girls, beware of pressurized shit.


          Carter Brey wrote:

          FYI, fellas.

          Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to keep the USCG happy.

          The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile valves to conduct flow in one direction.

          Worked fine in testing.

          Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.

          Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.

          Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit, you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.

          One more project which I've had to do twice.

          Carter Brey
          S28 MkII Delphine
          City Island, NY




          -- 
          Jim Starkey
          Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
          978 526-1376

        • Carter Brey
          See?? That s what happens when you use a screwdriver instead of a proper hose clamp wrench!! On Mar 22, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Jim Starkey
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 22, 2010
            See?? That's what happens when you use a screwdriver instead of a proper hose clamp wrench!!



            On Mar 22, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Jim Starkey <jstarkey@...> wrote:

             

            I used to argue with my father in law, a tightfisted yankee curmudgeon of the old school, that wasn't necessarily how much you paid for something that mattered but the number of times you had to pay it.

            But since it's "still winter" (New England for early spring), I'll toss in relevant yarn.  Many seasons back when the head law first took effect, a local boatyard advertised the "y-not" system consisting of Y-valve and a rubberized bland tank that could go anywhere.  The clear intention was the tank would never be used, which was important because it couldn't be emptied.  A fellow club member, also a senior Boston bank (back when it was a respectable profession), had the yard install the "y-not" in his Sabre 28 and forgot about it.  Later in the season, he found the head increasingly hard to pump.  Being a soft-of resourceful sort of fellow, he grabbed a flashlight and a screwdriver and started loosening hose clamps ... followed by the inevitable.  He survived, his reputation did not, and he was awarded the club's "most spectacular screwup award" at our annual meeting.

            So, boys and girls, beware of pressurized shit.


            Carter Brey wrote:

            FYI, fellas.

            Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to keep the USCG happy.

            The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile valves to conduct flow in one direction.

            Worked fine in testing.

            Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.

            Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.

            Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit, you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.

            One more project which I've had to do twice.

            Carter Brey
            S28 MkII Delphine
            City Island, NY


            -- 
            Jim Starkey
            Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
            978 526-1376
            

          • vanbeckump
            Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear? Peter
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 23, 2010
              Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?

              Peter

              --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:
              >
              > FYI, fellas.
              >
              > Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my
              > sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
              > from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
              > deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
              > eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for
              > the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to
              > keep the USCG happy.
              >
              > The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
              > valves to conduct flow in one direction.
              >
              > Worked fine in testing.
              >
              > Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the
              > pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
              > taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
              >
              > Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber
              > gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
              > turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
              > holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction
              > had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
              >
              > Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit,
              > you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream
              > of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.
              >
              > One more project which I've had to do twice.
              >
              > Carter Brey
              > S28 MkII Delphine
              > City Island, NY
              >
            • Carter Brey
              Peter, I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the force
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 23, 2010
                Peter,

                I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the force of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".

                So-- the choice is either to replace the Whale with a standard impeller macerator or replumb with a Y valve. It seems to me that the Y valve is the way to go; a side benefit would be that the Y valve would act as a shutoff to enable easier pump maintenance when the tank is full. 

                Carter
                Just lovin' every minute of this. 



                On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM, vanbeckump <vanbeckump@...> wrote:

                 

                Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?

                Peter

                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:
                >
                > FYI, fellas.
                >
                > Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my
                > sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
                > from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
                > deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
                > eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for
                > the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to
                > keep the USCG happy.
                >
                > The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
                > valves to conduct flow in one direction.
                >
                > Worked fine in testing.
                >
                > Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the
                > pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
                > taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
                >
                > Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber
                > gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
                > turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
                > holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction
                > had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
                >
                > Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit,
                > you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream
                > of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.
                >
                > One more project which I've had to do twice.
                >
                > Carter Brey
                > S28 MkII Delphine
                > City Island, NY
                >

              • vanbeckump
                Lucky thing that all the work we do to have fun is fun too! And we have to share our embarrassments with each other so that we can honestly feel comfortable
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 23, 2010
                  Lucky thing that all the work we do to have fun is fun too!

                  And we have to share our embarrassments with each other so that we can honestly feel
                  comfortable enjoying the next guy's disaster.

                  Peter

                  --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Peter,
                  >
                  > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                  > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the force
                  > of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".
                  >
                  > So-- the choice is either to replace the Whale with a standard impeller
                  > macerator or replumb with a Y valve. It seems to me that the Y valve is the
                  > way to go; a side benefit would be that the Y valve would act as a shutoff
                  > to enable easier pump maintenance when the tank is full.
                  >
                  > Carter
                  > Just lovin' every minute of this.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM, vanbeckump <vanbeckump@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?
                  >
                  > Peter
                  >
                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com <Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Carter Brey <carter.brey@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > FYI, fellas.
                  > >
                  > > Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my
                  > > sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
                  > > from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
                  > > deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
                  > > eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for
                  > > the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to
                  > > keep the USCG happy.
                  > >
                  > > The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
                  > > valves to conduct flow in one direction.
                  > >
                  > > Worked fine in testing.
                  > >
                  > > Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the
                  > > pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
                  > > taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
                  > >
                  > > Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber
                  > > gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
                  > > turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
                  > > holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction
                  > > had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
                  > >
                  > > Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit,
                  > > you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream
                  > > of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.
                  > >
                  > > One more project which I've had to do twice.
                  > >
                  > > Carter Brey
                  > > S28 MkII Delphine
                  > > City Island, NY
                  > >
                  >
                • yaf001
                  ScheissSchadenfreude is now part of our Sabre fun eh! J Yves From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vanbeckump
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 23, 2010

                    ScheissSchadenfreude is now part of our Sabre fun eh! J

                    Yves

                     

                     

                    From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vanbeckump
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 13:23
                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Cautionary-- Whale Gulper Grouper waste pump

                     

                     

                    Lucky thing that all the work we do to have fun is fun too!

                    And we have to share our embarrassments with each other so that we can honestly feel
                    comfortable enjoying the next guy's disaster.

                    Peter

                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Peter,
                    >
                    > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                    > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the
                    force
                    > of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey
                    time".
                    >
                    > So-- the choice is either to replace the Whale with a standard impeller
                    > macerator or replumb with a Y valve. It seems to me that the Y valve is
                    the
                    > way to go; a side benefit would be that the Y valve would act as a shutoff
                    > to enable easier pump maintenance when the tank is full.
                    >
                    > Carter
                    > Just lovin' every minute of this.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM, vanbeckump <vanbeckump@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?
                    >
                    > Peter
                    >
                    > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    <Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > Carter Brey <carter.brey@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > FYI, fellas.
                    > >
                    > > Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of
                    my
                    > > sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge
                    lines
                    > > from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
                    > > deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
                    > > eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply
                    for
                    > > the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key
                    to
                    > > keep the USCG happy.
                    > >
                    > > The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
                    > > valves to conduct flow in one direction.
                    > >
                    > > Worked fine in testing.
                    > >
                    > > Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using
                    the
                    > > pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
                    > > taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
                    > >
                    > > Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on
                    rubber
                    > > gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
                    > > turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
                    > > holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the
                    suction
                    > > had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
                    > >
                    > > Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of
                    kit,
                    > > you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve
                    upstream
                    > > of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck
                    pumpout.
                    > >
                    > > One more project which I've had to do twice.
                    > >
                    > > Carter Brey
                    > > S28 MkII Delphine
                    > > City Island, NY
                    > >
                    >

                  • David Evans
                    Is this just the Gulper? We have a Henderson (Whale) Mark V Y d to the pumpout line and have had no problems. Seems like the tank vent should handle replacing
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 29, 2010
                      Is this just the Gulper? We have a Henderson (Whale) Mark V Y'd to the
                      pumpout line and have had no problems. Seems like the tank vent should
                      handle replacing the air as the sheiss comes out.
                      dge

                      > Peter,
                      >
                      > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                      > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the
                      > force
                      > of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".
                      >
                      > So-- the choice is either to replace the Whale with a standard impeller
                      > macerator or replumb with a Y valve. It seems to me that the Y valve is
                      > the
                      > way to go; a side benefit would be that the Y valve would act as a shutoff
                      > to enable easier pump maintenance when the tank is full.
                      >
                      > Carter
                      > Just lovin' every minute of this.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM, vanbeckump <vanbeckump@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >
                      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com <Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> FYI, fellas.
                      >>
                      >> Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my
                      >> sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
                      >> from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
                      >> deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
                      >> eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for
                      >> the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to
                      >> keep the USCG happy.
                      >>
                      >> The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
                      >> valves to conduct flow in one direction.
                      >>
                      >> Worked fine in testing.
                      >>
                      >> Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the
                      >> pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
                      >> taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
                      >>
                      >> Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber
                      >> gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
                      >> turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
                      >> holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction
                      >> had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
                      >>
                      >> Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit,
                      >> you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream
                      >> of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.
                      >>
                      >> One more project which I've had to do twice.
                      >>
                      >> Carter Brey
                      >> S28 MkII Delphine
                      >> City Island, NY
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Carter Brey
                      Dave, I don t know-- that s what the company rep told me. Perhaps I simply had the pump mounted too close to the tank-- it was about a foot away, as you can
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 29, 2010
                      Dave,

                      I don't know-- that's what the company rep told me. Perhaps I simply had the pump mounted too close to the tank-- it was about a foot away, as you can see from the photo; I wanted to minimize priming time. My 1/2" vent line was brand new and wide open. But after that first pumpout, both valves of the pump were definitely inverted, as I discovered on disassembly (that was fun!). Perhaps the Block Island pumpout boat has a particularly rambunctious pump. Anyway, it's good that you've had no problems-- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

                      Yesterday I completed reconfiguration, removing one of the output hoses, moving the pump to the head bulkhead, and installing a lockable Jabsco Y valve just upstream of it (second, incredibly dark, grainy and out-of-focus second photo).

                      Carter Brey
                      S28 MkII Delphine
                      City Island, NY

                      On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 17:09 -0400, David Evans wrote:
                       
                      Is this just the Gulper? We have a Henderson (Whale) Mark V Y'd to the
                      pumpout line and have had no problems. Seems like the tank vent should
                      handle replacing the air as the sheiss comes out.
                      dge

                      > Peter,
                      >
                      > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                      > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the
                      > force
                      > of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".
                      >
                      > So-- the choice is either to replace the Whale with a standard impeller
                      > macerator or replumb with a Y valve. It seems to me that the Y valve is
                      > the
                      > way to go; a side benefit would be that the Y valve would act as a shutoff
                      > to enable easier pump maintenance when the tank is full.
                      >
                      > Carter
                      > Just lovin' every minute of this.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM, vanbeckump <vanbeckump@yahoo.com> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yikes! I have installed the same! No issues YET. Is your vent hose clear?
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >
                      > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com <Sabresailboat%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> FYI, fellas.
                      >>
                      >> Last spring I installed a Whale Grouper Gulper waste pump as part of my
                      >> sanitation system overhaul. I plumbed it into one of two discharge lines
                      >> from the holding tank. The other discharge line went directly to the
                      >> deck pumpout. I figured I was being clever by using both lines and
                      >> eliminating all Y valves-- keeping it simple. I ran the power supply for
                      >> the pump through the DC panel and a key switch with a concealed key to
                      >> keep the USCG happy.
                      >>
                      >> The Gulper is a non-macerating single diaphragm pump. It uses nitrile
                      >> valves to conduct flow in one direction.
                      >>
                      >> Worked fine in testing.
                      >>
                      >> Got a pumpout in Block Island and noticed the next day, when using the
                      >> pump outside the three-mile limit, that the holding tank seemed to be
                      >> taking on water instead of discharging. WTF.
                      >>
                      >> Moored at Huntington YC, got a pumpout and flushout, then put on rubber
                      >> gloves and dismantled the pump to have a look. Both valves had been
                      >> turned completely inside out. I now had a seawater intake pump for my
                      >> holding tank. The pumpout boat's pump was strong enough that the suction
                      >> had reached into the pump and pulled the valves out of shape.
                      >>
                      >> Takeaway: if you use this pump, which is otherwise a nice piece of kit,
                      >> you must install either a Y valve or some kind of shutoff valve upstream
                      >> of it, and close off the hose to the pump before utilizing deck pumpout.
                      >>
                      >> One more project which I've had to do twice.
                      >>
                      >> Carter Brey
                      >> S28 MkII Delphine
                      >> City Island, NY
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >





                    • Carter Brey
                      Well, the second photo didn t make it, but it s not important. CB
                      Message 11 of 13 , Mar 29, 2010
                        Well, the second photo didn't make it, but it's not important.

                        CB
                      • Peggie Hall
                        ... No...not every time. That can only happen if the tank vent is blocked or inadequately sized...in which case, strong enough suction can even turn the joker
                        Message 12 of 13 , Mar 30, 2010
                          > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                          > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the
                          > force >> of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".

                          No...not every time. That can only happen if the tank vent is blocked or
                          inadequately sized...in which case, strong enough suction can even turn
                          the joker valve in the toilet inside out.

                          Suction strong enough to turn valves inside out is also strong enough to
                          crack a tank...so tend to your tank vent maintenance!

                          --
                          Peggie
                          ----------
                          Peggie Hall
                          Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
                          Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
                          Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
                          http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304
                        • Scott
                          I can attest to the suction being able to crack a tank. In my case the tank collapsed (imploded) from the suction when the marina used their brand new pumpout
                          Message 13 of 13 , Mar 30, 2010
                            I can attest to the suction being able to crack a tank. In my case the tank collapsed (imploded) from the suction when the marina used their brand new pumpout system. It was not a fun job replacing the tank. From that day forward, I have always unscrewed the inspection cap on the tank just prior to pumpout.
                             
                            Scott


                            From: Peggie Hall <peggie.hall@...>
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 9:47:05 AM
                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Cautionary-- Whale Gulper Grouper waste pump

                             

                            > I just this second got off the phone with the Whale tech rep. He confirmed
                            > that, without a shutoff or Y valve between the pump and the tank, the
                            > force >> of the pumpout from the deck will "invert those valves evey time".

                            No...not every time. That can only happen if the tank vent is blocked or
                            inadequately sized...in which case, strong enough suction can even turn
                            the joker valve in the toilet inside out.

                            Suction strong enough to turn valves inside out is also strong enough to
                            crack a tank...so tend to your tank vent maintenance!

                            --
                            Peggie
                            ----------
                            Peggie Hall
                            Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
                            Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
                            Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
                            http://shop. sailboatowners. com/books/ detail-books. htm?sku=66438& cat=1304

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