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Re: Main Halyard Winch

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  • sabre30_36
    I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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      I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

      http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckPort.jpg
      http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckStbd.jpg
      http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckMap.jpg

      I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

      http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/organizer.jpg

      You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

      http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/vang.jpg
      http://spirit.the-millers.org/SailControls.jpg

      Eric
      Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
      West River, MD

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
      >
      > Thanks
      > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
      >
    • Jeff Bartlett
      Eric, Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines? Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Eric,
         
        Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
         
        Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
         
        Jeff B
        S28-546
         
         
         

        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        From: sabre30_36@...
        Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
        Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

         
        I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

        http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
        http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
        http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

        I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

        http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

        You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

        http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
        http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

        Eric
        Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
        West River, MD

        --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
        >




        Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
      • josrulz_2001
        Interesting that you mention this, Jeff. I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast. It s
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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          Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

          I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

          Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




          From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@...>
          To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

           

          Eric,
           
          Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
           
          Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
           
          Jeff B
          S28-546
           
           
           


          To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
          From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
          Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

           
          I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

          I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

          http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/organizer.jpg

          You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

          http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
          http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

          Eric
          Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
          West River, MD

          --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
          >




          Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
        • sabre30_36
          When I made the move, I was single-handing the boat alot. When I m single-handing, I m not playing the outhaul that much and when I m racing I have crew to
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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            When I made the move, I was single-handing the boat alot. When I'm single-handing, I'm not playing the outhaul that much and when I'm racing I have crew to handle that. The outhaul is still very easy to access.

            As far as bringing the reefing lines aft, I've yet to see a system that works smoothly enough to satisfy me and is simple enough that I can have confidence in it. Also, sailing on the Chesapeake, I don't have to reef all that often.

            Since I made the move, I also added the roller furler on the headstay - with that, there is far less need for the Genoa halyard winch to be on the cabin top.

            I guess it all depends on your priorities.

            Eric
            Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
            West River, MD

            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Eric,
            >
            >
            >
            > Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
            >
            >
            >
            > Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing). Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft. I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jeff B
            >
            > S28-546
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
            > From: sabre30_36@...
            > Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
            > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.
            >
            > http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckPort.jpg
            > http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckStbd.jpg
            > http://spirit.the-millers.org/DeckMap.jpg
            >
            > I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.
            >
            > http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/organizer.jpg
            >
            > You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.
            >
            > http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/vang.jpg
            > http://spirit.the-millers.org/SailControls.jpg
            >
            > Eric
            > Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
            > West River, MD
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
            > >
            > > Thanks
            > > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
            > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
            >
          • Leonard Bertaux
            My jib halyards (2) and spinnaker halyards (2) are all located on the cabin top port and starboard of the mast partners. A single block at the base of the mast
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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              My jib halyards (2) and spinnaker halyards (2) are all located on the cabin top port and starboard of the mast partners. A single block at the base of the mast feeds a spinlock clutch and a nearby winch to snug up the halyard. Mostly used for spinnaker hoisting as we don't change headsails much on the fly. The main halyard feeds back to the cockpit through another spinlock clutch and a ST winch on the starboard side of the companionway hatch.

              Len 

              sv/Walkabout
              S38 MKII

              On Mar 2, 2010, at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 wrote:

               

              Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

              I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

              Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




              From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
              To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
              Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

               

              Eric,
               
              Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
               
              Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
               
              Jeff B
              S28-546
               
               
               


              To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
              From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
              Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
              Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

               
              I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

              I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

              http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

              You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

              http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
              http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

              Eric
              Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
              West River, MD

              --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
              >
              > Thanks
              > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
              >




              Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.


            • Peter Tollini
              When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished.
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished. Your genoa will like you much better if you ease it at the end and you will like your genoa more if you tension it at the beginning.   Whether or not you adjust the halyard while sailing is a matter of performance and preference.
                Pete

                On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:
                 

                Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@...>
                To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                 

                Eric,
                 
                Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                 
                Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                 
                Jeff B
                S28-546
                 
                 
                 


                To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                 
                I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/organizer.jpg

                You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                Eric
                Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                West River, MD

                --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                >




                Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.


              • Jeff Bartlett
                I m thinking of a line clutch on the mast for the genoa, and a cam cleat for the spinnaker, both with horn cleat backups which will give a nice place to coil
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                  I'm thinking of a line clutch on the mast for the genoa, and a cam cleat for the spinnaker, both with horn cleat backups which will give a nice place to coil and hang the tails. 
                   
                  I don't think you'll need a winch until you get to the last bit of hoist, and using a temporary turning block on the mast step, the genoa halyard tail should be long enough to reach to the main sheet winch for that final bit of tension.  
                   
                  Jeff
                   

                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  From: josrulz_2001@...
                  Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:58:01 -0800
                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                   
                  Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                  I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                  Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                  From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
                  To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
                  Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                  Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                   

                  Eric,
                   
                  Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                   
                  Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                   
                  Jeff B
                  S28-546
                   
                   
                   


                  To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                  From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                  Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                  Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                   
                  I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                  http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                  http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                  http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                  I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                  http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

                  You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                  http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                  http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                  Eric
                  Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                  West River, MD

                  --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                  >




                  Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.



                  Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
                • josrulz_2001
                  Good point Pete. I will be better about that this year! Still, I think we could make the adjustment at the mast before we depart or even underway. It s not
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Good point Pete.  I will be better about that this year!  Still, I think we could make the adjustment at the mast before we depart or even underway.  It's not that we can't leave it aft, but it would be nice to clear away some space for some mainsail controls like the boom vang, for instance.  For us, this is all just talk, because we're not upgrading sail handling hardware this year, except adding lazy jacks.  Maybe next year...




                    From: Peter Tollini <pete@...>
                    To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 3:46:16 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                     

                    When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished. Your genoa will like you much better if you ease it at the end and you will like your genoa more if you tension it at the beginning.   Whether or not you adjust the halyard while sailing is a matter of performance and preference.
                    Pete

                    On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                     

                    Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                    I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                    Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                    From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
                    To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                     

                    Eric,
                     
                    Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                     
                    Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                     
                    Jeff B
                    S28-546
                     
                     
                     


                    To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                    From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                    Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                    Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                     
                    I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                    http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                    http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                    http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                    I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                    http://www.the-millers.org/Spirit/organizer.jpg

                    You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                    http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                    http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                    Eric
                    Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                    West River, MD

                    --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                    >




                    Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.


                  • Neubsr@aol.com
                    On our 36 both the main and genoa halyard winch are on the mast. With roller furling this works great for the primary genoa halyard. Easy to tension and
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                      On our 36 both the main and genoa halyard winch are on the mast. With roller furling this works great for the primary genoa halyard. Easy to tension and release at the start and end of a sail. The second genoa halyard comes back to the cockpit through a stopper. Works well for a headsail change while underway. I thought about bring the main halyard back to the cockpit but then it would take two people coordinating their efforts to reef the main at the mast end of the boom. We have the conventional two lime reef system. So I have kept the main winch at the mast where one person can drop, reef and re tension the main, while the second person in the cockpit can bring in the reef line. All reef lines and other control lines are all back to the cockpit through stoppers and have winch availability if needed.  Hope this helps. As others have pointed out we all rig our boats to the way we are most comfortable using them.
                      Richard
                      Sabre 36  Seascape
                      Lake Ontario

                    • Art
                      Mine was already installed when I bought the boat, It s a Lewmar 2 speed #16(I think)on the port side side outboard of the main sheet winch which is Lewmar #8.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                        Mine was already installed when I bought the boat, It's a Lewmar
                        2 speed #16(I think)on the port side side outboard of the main sheet winch which is Lewmar #8. My gut feeling is it came that way from Sabre, but I've been wondering lately if the halayard & sheet leads through the ondeck turnig blocks have been switched by PO.
                        Doesn't it make more sense to have a 2 speed advantage when grinding in the main. Anyone else have theirs on the cabin top- which is which?
                        Anyway having the winch located there sure makes life easier from the cockpit especially if you have lazy jack, stackpak etc.

                        Art
                        Trinity S30 #14


                        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                        >
                      • Jeff Bartlett
                        Not to be too contrarian, but can you explain why this is? Do you tension before or after unrolling the sail? And ease before or after furling the sail? Do
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Not to be too contrarian, but can you explain why this is?  Do you tension before or after unrolling the sail?  And ease before or after furling the sail?  Do you increase tension if you furl from a 140 to a 110, and then decrease tension when you completely furl the sail?

                          With a hank on sail, proper* halyard tension for a given wind speed would be just enough to remove wrinkles on the luff.  How is that different with a furling sail?  

                          Proper tension in a few knots of wind will be minimal, barely more than enough to hold the sail up.

                          I haven't measured it, but I can't imagine that the tension needed to remove wrinkles in about 12 or 15 knots of wind would be significant enough to require the easing and tensioning you mention.

                          Is the tensioning/easing necessary to prolong the longevity of the furler?  I'd think too loose a halyard would increase the possibility of wrapping the halyard.  I agree too tight is bad.  My hunch is that most halyards are too tight

                          Personally, I'll tension the halyard for the sail to be wrinkle free right about when I think I want to start furling and just leave it at that tension.  If I want the extra performance at lower wind speed, I wouldn't have a furler. Maybe I'll only get 10 years out of the sail instead of 11.


                          * Proper based only on what I've read, I'm no expert.  

                          Jeff B


                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                          From: pete@...
                          Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:46:16 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                           

                          When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished. Your genoa will like you much better if you ease it at the end and you will like your genoa more if you tension it at the beginning.   Whether or not you adjust the halyard while sailing is a matter of performance and preference.
                          Pete

                          On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                           

                          Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                          I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                          Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                          From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
                          To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
                          Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                           
                          Eric,
                           
                          Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                           
                          Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                           
                          Jeff B
                          S28-546
                           
                           
                           


                          To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                          From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                          Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                           
                          I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                          http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                          I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                          http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

                          You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                          http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                          http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                          Eric
                          Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                          West River, MD

                          --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                          >




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                          Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
                        • Leonard Bertaux
                          The other way to control luff tension is with the backstay. I ease off the backstay when leaving the boat and retension according to wind conditions. Leonard
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                            The other way to control luff tension is with the backstay. I ease off the backstay when leaving the boat and retension according to wind conditions. 



                            Leonard Bertaux

                            Sent from my iPhone,

                            On Mar 2, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@...> wrote:

                             

                            Not to be too contrarian, but can you explain why this is?  Do you tension before or after unrolling the sail?  And ease before or after furling the sail?  Do you increase tension if you furl from a 140 to a 110, and then decrease tension when you completely furl the sail?


                            With a hank on sail, proper* halyard tension for a given wind speed would be just enough to remove wrinkles on the luff.  How is that different with a furling sail?  

                            Proper tension in a few knots of wind will be minimal, barely more than enough to hold the sail up.

                            I haven't measured it, but I can't imagine that the tension needed to remove wrinkles in about 12 or 15 knots of wind would be significant enough to require the easing and tensioning you mention.

                            Is the tensioning/easing necessary to prolong the longevity of the furler?  I'd think too loose a halyard would increase the possibility of wrapping the halyard.  I agree too tight is bad.  My hunch is that most halyards are too tight

                            Personally, I'll tension the halyard for the sail to be wrinkle free right about when I think I want to start furling and just leave it at that tension.  If I want the extra performance at lower wind speed, I wouldn't have a furler. Maybe I'll only get 10 years out of the sail instead of 11.


                            * Proper based only on what I've read, I'm no expert.  

                            Jeff B


                            To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: pete@tollini. com
                            Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:46:16 -0500
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                             

                            When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished. Your genoa will like you much better if you ease it at the end and you will like your genoa more if you tension it at the beginning.   Whether or not you adjust the halyard while sailing is a matter of performance and preference.
                            Pete

                            On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
                             

                            Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                            I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                            Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                            From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
                            To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
                            Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                            Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                             
                            Eric,
                             
                            Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                             
                            Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                             
                            Jeff B
                            S28-546
                             
                             
                             


                            To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                            Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                             
                            I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                            http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                            http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                            http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                            I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                            http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

                            You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                            http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                            http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                            Eric
                            Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                            West River, MD

                            --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                            >




                            Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.






                            Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

                          • Dave Lochner
                            Jeff, With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jeff,

                              With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock. There is a lot of weight on forestay between the sail and the furling unit. This reduces wear and tear on the forestay and its fittings. When sailing, adjust the tension to match the conditions. Putting tension on the headstay also makes it easier to furl the sail. 

                              Easing the halyard reduces tension on the luff, letting the sail relax, which probably extends the life of the sail by slowing the stretch process. When I remember, I ease it after it is furled and re-tension it after it is unfurled. The halyard is only eased an inch or two, so there isn't a problem with the halyard being too loose and wrapping around the forestay.

                              Dave


                              On Mar 2, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Jeff Bartlett wrote:

                               

                              Not to be too contrarian, but can you explain why this is?  Do you tension before or after unrolling the sail?  And ease before or after furling the sail?  Do you increase tension if you furl from a 140 to a 110, and then decrease tension when you completely furl the sail?


                              With a hank on sail, proper* halyard tension for a given wind speed would be just enough to remove wrinkles on the luff.  How is that different with a furling sail?  

                              Proper tension in a few knots of wind will be minimal, barely more than enough to hold the sail up.

                              I haven't measured it, but I can't imagine that the tension needed to remove wrinkles in about 12 or 15 knots of wind would be significant enough to require the easing and tensioning you mention.

                              Is the tensioning/easing necessary to prolong the longevity of the furler?  I'd think too loose a halyard would increase the possibility of wrapping the halyard.  I agree too tight is bad.  My hunch is that most halyards are too tight

                              Personally, I'll tension the halyard for the sail to be wrinkle free right about when I think I want to start furling and just leave it at that tension.  If I want the extra performance at lower wind speed, I wouldn't have a furler. Maybe I'll only get 10 years out of the sail instead of 11.


                              * Proper based only on what I've read, I'm no expert.  

                              Jeff B


                              To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                              From: pete@tollini. com
                              Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:46:16 -0500
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                               

                              When you say you never use the genoa halyard, I would recommend at a minimum that you tension the halyard before sailing and ease it when you are finished. Your genoa will like you much better if you ease it at the end and you will like your genoa more if you tension it at the beginning.   Whether or not you adjust the halyard while sailing is a matter of performance and preference.
                              Pete

                              On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                               

                              Interesting that you mention this, Jeff.  I am wondering what the level of effort (and procedure) would be to move the genoa halyard to the mast.  It's currently on the cabin top at the cockpit, but I never use it since we have roller furling.  But to make the change, I'd have to put a winch on the mast, which as far as I can tell has never had one, so there's no plate on which to mount it.  This is probably somewhere down the line, but it's definitely on my mind. 

                              I would probably also set it up so the spinnaker pole topping lift can be tied off at the mast, though I'd leave a spot through the deck organizers to run it aft in case we need it, so one can access the topping lift and guys all from the cockpit.  But since we don't race, this would be a rarity. 

                              Anyway, this stuff is pretty far down "the list" right now...




                              From: Jeff Bartlett <jhbartlett@hotmail. com>
                              To: SabreList Yahoo <sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
                              Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 2:13:21 PM
                              Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                               
                              Eric,
                               
                              Why did you decide to bring the headsail halyards aft instead of the main outhaul and reef lines?
                               
                              Among many possible jobs, I am mulling over moving the genoa and spinaker halyards to the mast since I do not use/adjust them very often (singlehanding, no racing).  Moving them would free up deck space for the outhaul & reef lines to come aft.  I think it would be much more helpful to have the reef lines at the same location as the main halyard and I am still not yet decided on whether they should be at the mast or in the cockpit.
                               
                              Jeff B
                              S28-546
                               
                               
                               


                              To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                              From: sabre30_36@hotmail. com
                              Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:27:45 +0000
                              Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                               
                              I moved both the halyard winches from the mast to the cabin top. Fairly easy job. Only negative is some additional friction from the additional turning blocks involved. It's one of the first modifications I made (so that was probably 15 years ago) and it really made single-handing easier.

                              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckPort. jpg
                              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckStbd. jpg
                              http://spirit. the-millers. org/DeckMap. jpg

                              I added a couple of these deck organizers to replace the single turning blocks.

                              http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/organizer .jpg

                              You can see the turning blocks at the base of the mast in these photos.

                              http://www.the- millers.org/ Spirit/vang. jpg
                              http://spirit. the-millers. org/SailControls .jpg

                              Eric
                              Sabre 30 #36 "Spirit"
                              West River, MD

                              --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                              >




                              Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.






                              Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.


                            • jack horner
                              See if you can get a deal on a 2 speed Anderson ST for your cabin top. Best money I ever spent. And should have done it sooner. I smile at every use ! Thanks
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                 See if you can get a deal on a 2 speed Anderson ST for your cabin top.  Best money I ever spent. And should have done it sooner.  I smile at every use !
                                Thanks to Carter for the advice.  Lee



                                From: Art <aacroxton@...>
                                To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 7:53:04 PM
                                Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                 


                                Mine was already installed when I bought the boat, It's a Lewmar
                                2 speed #16(I think)on the port side side outboard of the main sheet winch which is Lewmar #8. My gut feeling is it came that way from Sabre, but I've been wondering lately if the halayard & sheet leads through the ondeck turnig blocks have been switched by PO.
                                Doesn't it make more sense to have a 2 speed advantage when grinding in the main. Anyone else have theirs on the cabin top- which is which?
                                Anyway having the winch located there sure makes life easier from the cockpit especially if you have lazy jack, stackpak etc.

                                Art
                                Trinity S30 #14

                                --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                                >


                              • Jeff Bartlett
                                OK, I can see the benefit of headstay tension as you described of a but... Tensioning the headstay is done by primarily the back stay, not the headsail
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  OK, I can see the benefit of headstay tension as you described of a but...
                                   
                                  Tensioning the headstay is done by primarily the back stay, not the headsail halyard.  The attachment points of the stays have been designed to handle the loads.  The halyard and associated hardware has not. 
                                   
                                  My prior experience (previous boat) is only with a Cruising Design furler which did not allow halyard tension adjustment except when the sail was unfurled and you were willing to go to the drum.  I'm still learning with my new furler.
                                   
                                  (taking  a break to do online research)
                                   
                                  I've just reread the operating manual for my Schaefer 1100 furler.  There is no mention of adjusting halyard tension.  I've also just reread my sailmakers guide for trimming my genoa.  Quantum advises no more halyard tension than necessary to remove wrinkles given the current conditions.
                                   
                                  I'm still unconvinced adjusting the headsail halyard tension between sufficient to hold the sail up in two knots and sufficient to remove wrinkles in 15 knots of wind is necessary to prolong sail life. 
                                   
                                  I guess it is time to plan an experiment and make observations of tension.  Come on spring.  I need to collect some data...
                                   
                                  Jeff B
                                   

                                   

                                  To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: davelochner@...
                                  Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:56:30 -0500
                                  Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                   
                                  Jeff,

                                  With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock. There is a lot of weight on forestay between the sail and the furling unit. This reduces wear and tear on the forestay and its fittings. When sailing, adjust the tension to match the conditions. Putting tension on the headstay also makes it easier to furl the sail. 

                                  Easing the halyard reduces tension on the luff, letting the sail relax, which probably extends the life of the sail by slowing the stretch process. When I remember, I ease it after it is furled and re-tension it after it is unfurled. The halyard is only eased an inch or two, so there isn't a problem with the halyard being too loose and wrapping around the forestay.

                                  Dave


                                  Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
                                • Dave Lochner
                                  Jeff, You re correct the backstay controls headstay tension, not the halyard. The halyard controls luff tension. I think the point that Pete and I are making
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jeff,

                                    You're correct the backstay controls headstay tension, not the halyard. The halyard controls luff tension. I think the point that Pete and I are making is that during the long periods of time that the sail is rolled up it is better for the sail to reduce luff tension. The theory is that leaving sailcloth under tension for long periods of time will prematurely stretch the cloth, changing the shape of the sail, and shortening its lifespan. 

                                    Dave




                                    On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Jeff Bartlett wrote:

                                     

                                    OK, I can see the benefit of headstay tension as you described of a but...
                                     
                                    Tensioning the headstay is done by primarily the back stay, not the headsail halyard.  The attachment points of the stays have been designed to handle the loads.  The halyard and associated hardware has not. 
                                     
                                    My prior experience (previous boat) is only with a Cruising Design furler which did not allow halyard tension adjustment except when the sail was unfurled and you were willing to go to the drum.  I'm still learning with my new furler.
                                     
                                    (taking  a break to do online research)
                                     
                                    I've just reread the operating manual for my Schaefer 1100 furler.  There is no mention of adjusting halyard tension.  I've also just reread my sailmakers guide for trimming my genoa.  Quantum advises no more halyard tension than necessary to remove wrinkles given the current conditions.
                                     
                                    I'm still unconvinced adjusting the headsail halyard tension between sufficient to hold the sail up in two knots and sufficient to remove wrinkles in 15 knots of wind is necessary to prolong sail life. 
                                     
                                    I guess it is time to plan an experiment and make observations of tension.  Come on spring.  I need to collect some data...
                                     
                                    Jeff B
                                     

                                     


                                    To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                                    From: davelochner@mac.com
                                    Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:56:30 -0500
                                    Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                     
                                    Jeff,

                                    With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock. There is a lot of weight on forestay between the sail and the furling unit. This reduces wear and tear on the forestay and its fittings. When sailing, adjust the tension to match the conditions. Putting tension on the headstay also makes it easier to furl the sail. 

                                    Easing the halyard reduces tension on the luff, letting the sail relax, which probably extends the life of the sail by slowing the stretch process. When I remember, I ease it after it is furled and re-tension it after it is unfurled. The halyard is only eased an inch or two, so there isn't a problem with the halyard being too loose and wrapping around the forestay.

                                    Dave


                                    Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.


                                  • Peter Tollini
                                    Headstay tension and luff tension should be handled independently. Headstay tension removes sag, giving a shape more consistent with the sail design. It also
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Headstay tension and luff tension should be handled independently.  Headstay tension removes sag, giving a shape more consistent with the sail design. It also induces mast bend, flattening the main.
                                      Luff tension, besides removing the wrinkles, pulls the maximum draft forward in a woven sail, less so with a laminate.
                                      For more detail on how & why to do these things I think Dedekam's little paperback is the best and clearest basic guide available.
                                      To go back to the real basics, releasing luff (halyard) tension on a roller furling jib prolongs the shape and the life of the sail.  Retensioning should be done when the sail is unfurled, but with sheet tension eased.
                                      Pete
                                      On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Jeff,


                                      You're correct the backstay controls headstay tension, not the halyard. The halyard controls luff tension. I think the point that Pete and I are making is that during the long periods of time that the sail is rolled up it is better for the sail to reduce luff tension. The theory is that leaving sailcloth under tension for long periods of time will prematurely stretch the cloth, changing the shape of the sail, and shortening its lifespan. 

                                      Dave




                                      On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Jeff Bartlett wrote:

                                       

                                      OK, I can see the benefit of headstay tension as you described of a but...
                                       
                                      Tensioning the headstay is done by primarily the back stay, not the headsail halyard.  The attachment points of the stays have been designed to handle the loads.  The halyard and associated hardware has not. 
                                       
                                      My prior experience (previous boat) is only with a Cruising Design furler which did not allow halyard tension adjustment except when the sail was unfurled and you were willing to go to the drum.  I'm still learning with my new furler.
                                       
                                      (taking  a break to do online research)
                                       
                                      I've just reread the operating manual for my Schaefer 1100 furler.  There is no mention of adjusting halyard tension.  I've also just reread my sailmakers guide for trimming my genoa.  Quantum advises no more halyard tension than necessary to remove wrinkles given the current conditions.
                                       
                                      I'm still unconvinced adjusting the headsail halyard tension between sufficient to hold the sail up in two knots and sufficient to remove wrinkles in 15 knots of wind is necessary to prolong sail life. 
                                       
                                      I guess it is time to plan an experiment and make observations of tension.  Come on spring.  I need to collect some data...
                                       
                                      Jeff B
                                       

                                       


                                      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: davelochner@mac.com
                                      Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:56:30 -0500
                                      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                       
                                      Jeff,

                                      With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock. There is a lot of weight on forestay between the sail and the furling unit. This reduces wear and tear on the forestay and its fittings. When sailing, adjust the tension to match the conditions. Putting tension on the headstay also makes it easier to furl the sail. 

                                      Easing the halyard reduces tension on the luff, letting the sail relax, which probably extends the life of the sail by slowing the stretch process. When I remember, I ease it after it is furled and re-tension it after it is unfurled. The halyard is only eased an inch or two, so there isn't a problem with the halyard being too loose and wrapping around the forestay.

                                      Dave


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                                    • GRAHAM BROADHURST
                                      Releasing halyard tension when not in use makes perfect sense and I thank you gentlemen fro drawing attention to it.  I do however maintain some tension on
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 3, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Releasing halyard tension when not in use makes perfect sense and I thank you gentlemen fro drawing attention to it.  I do however maintain some tension on the backstay to reduce the movement of the rig. It seems that it can hit a harmonic motion at a particular wind speed.
                                        Graham S34 Fearless

                                        --- On Wed, 3/3/10, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...> wrote:

                                        From: Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch
                                        To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 2:40 PM

                                         
                                        Jeff,

                                        You're correct the backstay controls headstay tension, not the halyard. The halyard controls luff tension. I think the point that Pete and I are making is that during the long periods of time that the sail is rolled up it is better for the sail to reduce luff tension. The theory is that leaving sailcloth under tension for long periods of time will prematurely stretch the cloth, changing the shape of the sail, and shortening its lifespan. 

                                        Dave




                                        On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Jeff Bartlett wrote:

                                         
                                        OK, I can see the benefit of headstay tension as you described of a but...
                                         
                                        Tensioning the headstay is done by primarily the back stay, not the headsail halyard.  The attachment points of the stays have been designed to handle the loads.  The halyard and associated hardware has not. 
                                         
                                        My prior experience (previous boat) is only with a Cruising Design furler which did not allow halyard tension adjustment except when the sail was unfurled and you were willing to go to the drum.  I'm still learning with my new furler.
                                         
                                        (taking  a break to do online research)
                                         
                                        I've just reread the operating manual for my Schaefer 1100 furler.  There is no mention of adjusting halyard tension.  I've also just reread my sailmakers guide for trimming my genoa.  Quantum advises no more halyard tension than necessary to remove wrinkles given the current conditions.
                                         
                                        I'm still unconvinced adjusting the headsail halyard tension between sufficient to hold the sail up in two knots and sufficient to remove wrinkles in 15 knots of wind is necessary to prolong sail life. 
                                         
                                        I guess it is time to plan an experiment and make observations of tension.  Come on spring.  I need to collect some data...
                                         
                                        Jeff B
                                         

                                         

                                        To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
                                        From: davelochner@mac.com
                                        Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:56:30 -0500
                                        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                         
                                        Jeff,

                                        With roller furling you want the headstay tensioned when the sail is furled. This limits the amount of swaying the forestay will do a that the dock. There is a lot of weight on forestay between the sail and the furling unit. This reduces wear and tear on the forestay and its fittings. When sailing, adjust the tension to match the conditions. Putting tension on the headstay also makes it easier to furl the sail. 

                                        Easing the halyard reduces tension on the luff, letting the sail relax, which probably extends the life of the sail by slowing the stretch process. When I remember, I ease it after it is furled and re-tension it after it is unfurled. The halyard is only eased an inch or two, so there isn't a problem with the halyard being too loose and wrapping around the forestay.

                                        Dave


                                        Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.


                                      • jack horner
                                        Well I have found that my wife needs the two speed when reefing, its a short haul down but when the wind pipes up and the stresses increase its faster and
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Mar 5, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Well I have found that my wife needs the two speed when reefing, its a short haul down but when the wind pipes up and the stresses increase its faster and easier for her..2speed st anderson cabin top. Lewmar is in the garage !!Lee



                                          From: Art <aacroxton@...>
                                          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 7:53:04 PM
                                          Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Main Halyard Winch

                                           


                                          Mine was already installed when I bought the boat, It's a Lewmar
                                          2 speed #16(I think)on the port side side outboard of the main sheet winch which is Lewmar #8. My gut feeling is it came that way from Sabre, but I've been wondering lately if the halayard & sheet leads through the ondeck turnig blocks have been switched by PO.
                                          Doesn't it make more sense to have a 2 speed advantage when grinding in the main. Anyone else have theirs on the cabin top- which is which?
                                          Anyway having the winch located there sure makes life easier from the cockpit especially if you have lazy jack, stackpak etc.

                                          Art
                                          Trinity S30 #14

                                          --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony" <tony.pensa@ ...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I am thinking about re-positioning the main halyard winch from the mast to the cabin top and I am wondering if any other S30 owners have done this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks
                                          > Tony - Tashtego S30 #51
                                          >


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