## Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

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• A single halyard and how many reefing lines?  Consider the logic with several points connected on the sail. EF Adams Annapolis
Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
A single halyard and how many reefing lines?  Consider the logic with several points connected on the sail.

Annapolis

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@...>
To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:51:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• If you attach the reef point to the reefing hook on the gooseneck, the gooseneck takes the load not the reefing line. The reefing line would have the same load
Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
If you attach the reef point to the reefing hook on the gooseneck, the gooseneck takes the load not the reefing line. The reefing line would have the same load as the outhaul. The reefing line tensions the "new" foot of the sail.

If you have a single line, reef from the cockpit system the reefing line will be tensioned by the halyard, but, the reefing line will be doubled as it goes through the reef point.

On my 30 I use 5/16" Sta Set for all the control lines and 3/8" Sta-SetX for the halyard.

Dave

On Mar 1, 2010, at 5:07 AM, The Aviation Buff wrote:

A single halyard and how many reefing lines?  Consider the logic with several points connected on the sail.

Annapolis

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:51:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• I have a single line reefing system thanks to Carters Knowledge ! I used ball bearing blocks attached to the sail cringles and on the boom to lead the line
Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
I have a single line reefing system  thanks to Carters Knowledge !  I used ball bearing blocks attached to the sail cringles and on the boom to lead the line
to the spar and down to the collar blocks and on to the deck-house turning blocks to a rope clutch.
I have two rope clutches one blue main halyard and one red reef lines together.
Makes it easier to raise the sail from the cockpit with the help of a Anderson  2 speed winch on the cabin top ....
Every time i use it I thank Carter for kicking my butt in to changing my old set up !!  Lee/ Fla  Tampa Bay

From: The Aviation Buff <avnbuf915@...>
To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 5:07:27 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

A single halyard and how many reefing lines?  Consider the logic with several points connected on the sail.

Annapolis

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:51:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• even if you have 2 lines, they act independantly with only one taking the load at a time From: jack horner Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:23 AM To:
Message 4 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
even if you have 2 lines, they act independantly with only one taking the load at a time

Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

I have a single line reefing system  thanks to Carters Knowledge !  I used ball bearing blocks attached to the sail cringles and on the boom to lead the line
to the spar and down to the collar blocks and on to the deck-house turning blocks to a rope clutch.
I have two rope clutches one blue main halyard and one red reef lines together.
Makes it easier to raise the sail from the cockpit with the help of a Anderson  2 speed winch on the cabin top ....
Every time i use it I thank Carter for kicking my butt in to changing my old set up !!  Lee/ Fla  Tampa Bay

From: The Aviation Buff <avnbuf915@yahoo. com>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 5:07:27 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

A single halyard and how many reefing lines?  Consider the logic with several points connected on the sail.

Annapolis

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:51:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• Here s two documents that might help: First is a document that someone sent me, I forget who, that looks like a genuine Sabre reference. It shows all running
Message 5 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Here's two documents that might help:

First is a document that someone sent me, I forget who, that looks like a genuine Sabre reference.  It shows all running rigging for a 34, and the reef lines are 5/16.

Second is a Ronstan page, showing a single line reef system for boats to 33 feet (that is close enough to 34!), that shows the SINGLE reef line as 3/8.

One thing to remember is that lines are sized not just for strength, but also for "handling" and for stretch.  The reef line is short, and handling (ability to hand-over-hand it under load) is not that big a deal, so it can be smaller than the halyard.  Also, line strengths in products like Sta-Set X have gone WAY up since the Sabre reference was published.

One final thing -- stretch is not always a critical issue.  In this application, I would see it as a low importance item, since it is a short line and I'm not sure 1/2" or even 1" of stretch would be devestating.  However, wear (resistance to chafe and in this case, tendency to NOT chafe the sail!) and ease of working is perhaps higher on the list.  I am a bit of a fan of New England Ropes' "Regatta Braid."  It is 20% cheaper than Sta-Set-X, although it is also 15% less strength and double the stretch (3% vs 1.6%).  However, it is MUCH softer on the hands and runs much more freely, and nicer on a winch and cleat.

Harry

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:49 PM, wrote:

Jim - All of the control lines on my Sabre 36 are 3/8.
Richard

• Thanks Harry, very helpful references. I appreciate everyone s feedback... ________________________________ From: Harry To:
Message 6 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010

I appreciate everyone's feedback...

From: Harry <HarryK@...>
To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 9:24:22 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I [2 Attachments]

Here's two documents that might help:

First is a document that someone sent me, I forget who, that looks like a genuine Sabre reference.  It shows all running rigging for a 34, and the reef lines are 5/16.

Second is a Ronstan page, showing a single line reef system for boats to 33 feet (that is close enough to 34!), that shows the SINGLE reef line as 3/8.

One thing to remember is that lines are sized not just for strength, but also for "handling" and for stretch.  The reef line is short, and handling (ability to hand-over-hand it under load) is not that big a deal, so it can be smaller than the halyard.  Also, line strengths in products like Sta-Set X have gone WAY up since the Sabre reference was published.

One final thing -- stretch is not always a critical issue.  In this application, I would see it as a low importance item, since it is a short line and I'm not sure 1/2" or even 1" of stretch would be devestating.  However, wear (resistance to chafe and in this case, tendency to NOT chafe the sail!) and ease of working is perhaps higher on the list.  I am a bit of a fan of New England Ropes' "Regatta Braid."  It is 20% cheaper than Sta-Set-X, although it is also 15% less strength and double the stretch (3% vs 1.6%).  However, it is MUCH softer on the hands and runs much more freely, and nicer on a winch and cleat.

Harry

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:49 PM, wrote:

Jim - All of the control lines on my Sabre 36 are 3/8.
Richard

• Looking at the whole halyard/reef system, what can the system support, i.e. where is the weak link? What load can all of the turning and deck lead blocks
Message 7 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Looking at the whole halyard/reef system, what can the system support, i.e. where is the weak link?  What load can all of the turning and deck lead blocks manage.  If you have a single line system, how strong are the blocks in it? Are they able to manage the potential load of a 3/8" line?  Do they really need to?  Is the line in the system the weak link, or is the weak link a 600# capacity turning block?  Unless the line is the weak link, upsizing lines is not improving the strength of the system.

According to New England Ropes, 3/8" Sta-Set has a 4,400# tensile strength.  Does any cruiser come anywhere near putting a 4400# load on their main halyard?

If you deadend the reefline at the reef tack, I would agree the load on the reef line would match the load on the halyard, but I have yet to see anyone who does not take advantage of at least a 2:1 system at the reef tack, which reduces the load on the reef line by 1/2.

5/16 Sta-Set has a 3000# tensile strength.  1/4" Sta-Set has a 2000# rating which in a 2:1 system, would likely be plenty of strength opposite a 3/8" halyard.

Once you figure out what the system can support, then you can figure out what you want.  There may be benefits to a different line size than required.  A different line size could work better with your existing hardware (winch, blocks, clutches, cleats).  A larger line size may be easier to handle.  A smaller line size can be coiled smaller and take up less space. Smaller size lines may take smaller (and less expensive) rope clutches

Jeff B
S28-546

To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
From: mike.merriman1@...
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:51:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• FYI If your reefing setup is as mine, with the reef line passing through the cringle and then tied around the boom, you have two to one leverage and double the
Message 8 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
FYI

If your reefing setup is as mine, with the reef line passing through the cringle and then tied around the boom, you have two to one leverage and double the line diameter carrying the load at the cringle. So half the diameter of your halyard will be more than sufficient in terms of loading.

Len Bertaux

On Mar 1, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Jeff Bartlett wrote:

Looking at the whole halyard/reef system, what can the system support, i.e. where is the weak link?  What load can all of the turning and deck lead blocks manage.  If you have a single line system, how strong are the blocks in it? Are they able to manage the potential load of a 3/8" line?  Do they really need to?  Is the line in the system the weak link, or is the weak link a 600# capacity turning block?  Unless the line is the weak link, upsizing lines is not improving the strength of the system.

According to New England Ropes, 3/8" Sta-Set has a 4,400# tensile strength.  Does any cruiser come anywhere near putting a 4400# load on their main halyard?

If you deadend the reefline at the reef tack, I would agree the load on the reef line would match the load on the halyard, but I have yet to see anyone who does not take advantage of at least a 2:1 system at the reef tack, which reduces the load on the reef line by 1/2.

5/16 Sta-Set has a 3000# tensile strength.  1/4" Sta-Set has a 2000# rating which in a 2:1 system, would likely be plenty of strength opposite a 3/8" halyard.

Once you figure out what the system can support, then you can figure out what you want.  There may be benefits to a different line size than required.  A different line size could work better with your existing hardware (winch, blocks, clutches, cleats).  A larger line size may be easier to handle.  A smaller line size can be coiled smaller and take up less space. Smaller size lines may take smaller (and less expensive) rope clutches

Jeff B
S28-546

To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
From: mike.merriman1@verizon.net
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:51:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

think about it this way - the halyard is pulling the sail up - you're trying to pull the sail down with the reefing line.  The two should be the same size OR at least strength.  that said, my reefing lines are 1 size smaller than my halyard, and I figure if I blow one of them out, the reefing line is easier and cheaper to replace.

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

Thanks Mike for the info.  Not to disagree (because this is indeed why I'm asking), but that sounds pretty heavy.  I mean, our outhaul is roughly 5/16 or 3/8, and it doesn't look like anything larger would fit through the blocks.  Our halyards are probably closer to 1/2" (maybe 7/16"), but that seems pretty heavy for reef lines--am I wrong about this?

From: Mike Merriman (Verizon) <mike.merriman1@ verizon.net>
To: Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:02:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

reefing lines should be same size as halyard

Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

It's a silly question, but just looking for a sizing recommendation for reefing lines. When we bought the boat last year, we couldn't find the reef lines, so we used what we could find, and they're not right. So I don't know what the standard size would be for reef lines on our boat.

I am planning to use New England Sta-set or perhaps Samson XLS (the two appear to be very similar). I'm guessing the reef lines would be 5/16 or 3/8-ish. Any specific recommendations?
Thanks,
Jim

1984 Sabre 34, #207

• And since we are on the subject of reefing, a comment and a question: * Many of us (certainly here on the Chesapeake) may have need for the second reef (one
Message 9 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
And since  we are on the subject of reefing, a comment and a question:

*  Many of us (certainly here on the Chesapeake) may have need for the second reef (one addage has it that if you *think* about a reef, you are already due for a second reef), but we aren't necessarily sailing in 15 foot seas at 2:00 AM in the rain.  I'm contemplating shortening my reef lines so that they don't come forward when the sail is up.  Yes, a bit harder to reach when you need to reef, but not that bad, and the benefit is less spaghetti when the sail is down.  I am most inclined to do it to the second reef (since when the first goes in, the second can be brought forward), but maybe even both.  Any thoughts?

*  And the question is about the tack.  I have two sails that came with my boat, one that was probably built for the boat and one that has someone else's number on it.  On both, the sail won't reach the tack hooks without taking the slugs out of the track -- a messy thing to do at reef time.  I believe that something called a "jack line" can fix it, but I'm not really sure how that is done -- and furthermore, since the sails weren't built that way, I wonder what the sailmaker intended.  Any thoughts on this?

Harry
Rantum Scoot
'79 S34-I #063
Luce Creek, Annapolis
• Harry, On point 1, I would leave them long, even though they are a pain. Leading them forward reduces the amount of movement to reef. While at the mast, you
Message 10 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Harry,

On point 1, I would leave them long, even though they are a pain. Leading them forward reduces the amount of movement to reef. While at the mast, you can hook the reef point on to the tack hooks and then pull the reef line to bring down the leech. The line will also be clear of the extra sail that's now draped around the boom. If you shorten the lines you'll need to find the end underneath all that fabric while balancing on the cabin top. A precarious position, works fine at the dock, but I'm not certain it works so well in 20Kts and 6 ft seas. True, you have to go up on the cabin top to tie in the 3 reef lines, but these are not critical to reefing and you've already reduced sail.

On my Tanzer, the lower slugs were on a piece of small line, which allow the sail to drop with the slugs remaining in the track. Worked pretty well. AS I recall, the line ran down one side of the sail with a loop through each cringle. The slug was in this loop. The line was tight enough so that it held the sail close to the slug, as the sail dropped there was slack and the sail dropped.

I'd draw a picture but I don't have a drawing program on this computer or a scanner.

Dave

On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Harry wrote:

And since  we are on the subject of reefing, a comment and a question:

*  Many of us (certainly here on the Chesapeake) may have need for the second reef (one addage has it that if you *think* about a reef, you are already due for a second reef), but we aren't necessarily sailing in 15 foot seas at 2:00 AM in the rain.  I'm contemplating shortening my reef lines so that they don't come forward when the sail is up.  Yes, a bit harder to reach when you need to reef, but not that bad, and the benefit is less spaghetti when the sail is down.  I am most inclined to do it to the second reef (since when the first goes in, the second can be brought forward), but maybe even both.  Any thoughts?

*  And the question is about the tack.  I have two sails that came with my boat, one that was probably built for the boat and one that has someone else's number on it.  On both, the sail won't reach the tack hooks without taking the slugs out of the track -- a messy thing to do at reef time.  I believe that something called a "jack line" can fix it, but I'm not really sure how that is done -- and furthermore, since the sails weren't built that way, I wonder what the sailmaker intended.  Any thoughts on this?

Harry
Rantum Scoot
'79 S34-I #063
Luce Creek, Annapolis

• Hi Harry, My personal opinion is that the reef lines should be led forward towards the mast end of the boom (if not to the cockpit). I d prefer not to be
Message 11 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Hi Harry,
My personal opinion is that the reef lines should be led forward towards the mast end of the boom (if not to the cockpit).  I'd prefer not to be trying to grab stuff on the boom further down, which could be bouncing about in the Chesapeake chop.  Closer to the mast, the more protected I am, or my crew is.  Of course, I also believe that everyone should set up their boat the way that works for them!

That said, I deal with the "spaghetti" as the sail comes down.  From the cockpit, I reach up and grab the reef lines and pull all the slack out (this helps pull the sail onto the boom too), and wrap the lines a couple times around the boom.  Easy to take back off later, but seems to tame the main and deal with the spaghetti at the same time.
-Jim

From: Harry <HarryK@...>
To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 11:45:05 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Reefing lines size, Sabre 34-I

And since  we are on the subject of reefing, a comment and a question:

*  Many of us (certainly here on the Chesapeake) may have need for the second reef (one addage has it that if you *think* about a reef, you are already due for a second reef), but we aren't necessarily sailing in 15 foot seas at 2:00 AM in the rain.  I'm contemplating shortening my reef lines so that they don't come forward when the sail is up.  Yes, a bit harder to reach when you need to reef, but not that bad, and the benefit is less spaghetti when the sail is down.  I am most inclined to do it to the second reef (since when the first goes in, the second can be brought forward), but maybe even both.  Any thoughts?

*  And the question is about the tack.  I have two sails that came with my boat, one that was probably built for the boat and one that has someone else's number on it.  On both, the sail won't reach the tack hooks without taking the slugs out of the track -- a messy thing to do at reef time.  I believe that something called a "jack line" can fix it, but I'm not really sure how that is done -- and furthermore, since the sails weren't built that way, I wonder what the sailmaker intended.  Any thoughts on this?

Harry
Rantum Scoot
'79 S34-I #063
Luce Creek, Annapolis

• Harry - My North mains, old & new, have a heavy strap through the reef cringles with a 1.5 stainless ring on each end. I ve seen it done with cable, but I
Message 12 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Harry -
My North mains, old & new, have a heavy strap through the reef cringles with a 1.5" stainless ring on each end. I've seen it done with cable, but I prefer the cloth strap. You just pull one ring over the reefing hook & take up on the halyard.  It also protects you from accidentally punching the end of the reefing hook through the sail.
I use 1/4" line for reefing the clew, deadended on the boom, up through the clew, back down to a cheek block on the boom and then forward.  No issues (with the reefing line) in up to 35kts.  The Admiral may recover from the Mother of All Broaches in this lifetime.
Pete

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Harry wrote:

And since  we are on the subject of reefing, a comment and a question:

*  Many of us (certainly here on the Chesapeake) may have need for the second reef (one addage has it that if you *think* about a reef, you are already due for a second reef), but we aren't necessarily sailing in 15 foot seas at 2:00 AM in the rain.  I'm contemplating shortening my reef lines so that they don't come forward when the sail is up.  Yes, a bit harder to reach when you need to reef, but not that bad, and the benefit is less spaghetti when the sail is down.  I am most inclined to do it to the second reef (since when the first goes in, the second can be brought forward), but maybe even both.  Any thoughts?

*  And the question is about the tack.  I have two sails that came with my boat, one that was probably built for the boat and one that has someone else's number on it.  On both, the sail won't reach the tack hooks without taking the slugs out of the track -- a messy thing to do at reef time.  I believe that something called a "jack line" can fix it, but I'm not really sure how that is done -- and furthermore, since the sails weren't built that way, I wonder what the sailmaker intended.  Any thoughts on this?

Harry
Rantum Scoot
'79 S34-I #063
Luce Creek, Annapolis

• Pete, I like the idea of the strap, although I don t have one. However, my problem is that if the sail slugs are left in the mast, the stack of slugs is so
Message 13 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Pete,

I like the idea of the strap, although I don't have one.  However, my problem is that if the sail slugs are left in the mast, the stack of slugs is so high (6"-12") that the cringle can't get down toward the hook.  The strap would help, of course, but I'm not sure that it should be allowed to elevate.

I like the suggestion from Dave, that sounds like what is dimly in the back of my mind.  I need to play with some small stuff and see what I can make work -- and if I make it work, I'll post back here (but it will be summer time before I can do that!).

Harry

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:

Harry -
My North mains, old & new, have a heavy strap through the reef cringles with a 1.5" stainless ring on each end. I've seen it done with cable, but I prefer the cloth strap. You just pull one ring over the reefing hook & take up on the halyard.  It also protects you from accidentally punching the end of the reefing hook through the sail.

• My North Mains both are able to flake and reach the hooks for #1 and #2 reef without dropping the slides, though #2 requires a bit of work. Seems curious to me
Message 14 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
My North Mains both are able to flake and reach the hooks for #1 and #2 reef without dropping the slides, though #2 requires a bit of work. Seems curious to me that there are so many who have sails which don't allow this.

Len

On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Harry wrote:

Pete,

I like the idea of the strap, although I don't have one.  However, my problem is that if the sail slugs are left in the mast, the stack of slugs is so high (6"-12") that the cringle can't get down toward the hook.  The strap would help, of course, but I'm not sure that it should be allowed to elevate.

I like the suggestion from Dave, that sounds like what is dimly in the back of my mind.  I need to play with some small stuff and see what I can make work -- and if I make it work, I'll post back here (but it will be summer time before I can do that!).

Harry

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Peter Tollini wrote:

Harry -
My North mains, old & new, have a heavy strap through the reef cringles with a 1.5" stainless ring on each end. I've seen it done with cable, but I prefer the cloth strap. You just pull one ring over the reefing hook & take up on the halyard.  It also protects you from accidentally punching the end of the reefing hook through the sail.

• A sailmaker can put a jackline on your mainsail for small \$\$\$......Or he might be willing to tell you how to rig one yourself
Message 15 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
A sailmaker can put a jackline on your mainsail for small \$\$\$......Or he
might be willing to tell you how to rig one yourself

Harry wrote:
>
> Pete,
>
> I like the idea of the strap, although I don't have one. However, my
> problem is that if the sail slugs are left in the mast, the stack of
> slugs is so high (6"-12") that the cringle can't get down toward the
> hook. The strap would help, of course, but I'm not sure that it should
> be allowed to elevate.
>
> I like the suggestion from Dave, that sounds like what is dimly in the
> back of my mind. I need to play with some small stuff and see what I
> can make work -- and if I make it work, I'll post back here (but it
> will be summer time before I can do that!).
>
> Harry
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Peter Tollini <pete@...
> <mailto:pete@...>> wrote:
>
> Harry -
> My North mains, old & new, have a heavy strap through the reef
> cringles with a 1.5" stainless ring on each end. I've seen it done
> with cable, but I prefer the cloth strap. You just pull one ring
> over the reefing hook & take up on the halyard. It also protects
> you from accidentally punching the end of the reefing hook through
> the sail.
>
>
>
• Oh, hell, Lee, I m just too butt-lazy to put my drink down and go forward to the mast when it gets to blowing 25k. If I could reef with my TV remote I d do it
Message 16 of 22 , Mar 1, 2010
Oh, hell, Lee, I'm just too butt-lazy to put my drink down and go forward to the mast when it gets to blowing 25k. If I could reef with my TV remote I'd do it in a heartbeat.

BTW, I use 5/16" Sta-Set for my single-line system.

CB

On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 04:23 -0800, jack horner wrote:

I have a single line reefing system  thanks to Carters Knowledge !  I used ball bearing blocks attached to the sail cringles and on the boom to lead the line
to the spar and down to the collar blocks and on to the deck-house turning blocks to a rope clutch.
I have two rope clutches one blue main halyard and one red reef lines together.
Makes it easier to raise the sail from the cockpit with the help of a Anderson  2 speed winch on the cabin top ....
Every time i use it I thank Carter for kicking my butt in to changing my old set up !!  Lee/ Fla  Tampa Bay

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