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Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

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  • Rollyn Trueblood
    Check your coupler first. Best Wishes, Rollyn Trueblood Pursers Office Inc. direct: (302) 239-9788 office: (302) 235-2331 fax: (302) 239-7376 email:
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 4 7:42 AM
      Check your coupler first.
       
      Best Wishes,
       
      Rollyn Trueblood
      Pursers Office Inc.
       
      direct: (302) 239-9788
      office: (302) 235-2331
      fax:     (302) 239-7376
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

      John, thanks for this suggestion.  I see the damper plate on my parts list, exploded diagram on page 308.  The Foley site has lots of info that looks useful.
       
      Apparently the trans must be removed to get at the damper plate.  Anyhow I will take Foley's advice and replace the plate, whatever else turns out to be needed.
       
      Somebody referred to the Hurst transmissions as the "$1/hour transmissions" because they last about one engine hour per dollar of their replacement cost.  Mine, which is likely the original, has given twice that much service, which doesn't sound so great to me either but I guess ain't bad for boat hardware. 
       
      sail on!
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

      http://www.foleyeng ines.com/ FreeTechnicalInf o/DrDieselTechTi ps/ZF-Hurth- Marine-Transmiss ions.aspx

      --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org> wrote:
      From: Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org>
      Subject: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A
      To: "Sabre list" <Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
      Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 9:34 AM

      Does anyone have experience with replacing/repairing the standard transmission on a Westerbeke W 33 A ("Type HBW short profile sailing gears")?
       
      I lost power to the prop yesterday (fortunately a few hundred feet from the slip).  No grinding or other noise, no bad smell.  Inspection showed it's not the shift control linkage from the binnacle to the transmission.  Prop shaft rotates freely, by hand, with actual shift lever (the one on the transmission itself) in any of the three positions.  Fluid at correct level and looks fine.  So I'm guessing it's the clutch or similar mechanism inside the box, not in the gears themselves.
       
      Any experience with having it rebuilt, buying a rebuilt one, or buying a new one?
       
      It seems very easily accessible and perhaps easy to pull the old one out and pop another one in.  Just a lot of bolts???  Plus replace some old gaskets/hoses/ etc?  No tricky alignment?
       
      I'd be grateful for any comments or advice.

    • Joel Bergsman
      Thanks Rollyn for all that info. I investigated your suggestions. my prop shaft is completely immobile fore and aft, as it should be, so i don t think the
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 4 7:56 AM
        Thanks Rollyn for all that info.  I investigated your suggestions.
         
        my prop shaft is completely immobile fore and aft, as it should be, so i don't think the coupling is the problem.  In any case, nothing is about to slide out the stern!  As for rotation, the shaft and all parts of the coupling right up to the drive (output) side of the transmission casing all rotate together, as they should, and they rotate freely regardless of the position of the shift lever -- so it's pretty clear that the problem is somewhere in the transmission and/or the flywheel/damper plate/etc assembly at the output end of the engine.
         
        whatever the problem is, it seems pretty clear that the transmission will have to be removed, both for definitive diagnosis and for repair/replacement of whatever is needed. 
         
        looks like a new transmission can be had for about $1k, e.g. from Foley Engines which John steered me to.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:22 AM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

        If your gearshiftt slides forward and back without any friction or doen's make a "clunk" in either direction, you may not have a transmission  glitch. Instead check your coupler.  I just went through that  exercise, but  I discovered it was the coupler when the propeller slid out to the rudder (Pearson 35); the rudder kept the discovery process as an inconvenience instead of a disaster. With the offset left or right on a Sabre its not so obvious until the shaft & propeller reach the sea bed.
         
        But a coupler costs $50 or so, a transmission & parts much more.
         
        The transmissions are actually made in Saville, Spain shipped to Brazil, and then sent to the USA on a favored nations treaty. The repair manual is in English & classical Spanish, not Portuguese as you might suspect. I've enclosed a copy of the manual.
         
        Don't hurry to change the transmission fluid, there is a drain on the bottom that is easy to get to, however the fill on the top is real tough to reach.
        Make sure you can reach and open the fill before you try to change fluids.
         
        Best Wishes,
         
        Rollyn Trueblood
        Pursers Office Inc.
         
        direct: (302) 239-9788
        office: (302) 235-2331
        fax:     (302) 239-7376
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:53 AM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

        John, thanks for this suggestion.  I see the damper plate on my parts list, exploded diagram on page 308.  The Foley site has lots of info that looks useful.
         
        Apparently the trans must be removed to get at the damper plate.  Anyhow I will take Foley's advice and replace the plate, whatever else turns out to be needed.
         
        Somebody referred to the Hurst transmissions as the "$1/hour transmissions" because they last about one engine hour per dollar of their replacement cost.  Mine, which is likely the original, has given twice that much service, which doesn't sound so great to me either but I guess ain't bad for boat hardware. 
         
        sail on!
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

        http://www.foleyeng ines.com/ FreeTechnicalInf o/DrDieselTechTi ps/ZF-Hurth- Marine-Transmiss ions.aspx

        --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org> wrote:
        From: Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org>
        Subject: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A
        To: "Sabre list" <Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
        Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 9:34 AM

        Does anyone have experience with replacing/repairing the standard transmission on a Westerbeke W 33 A ("Type HBW short profile sailing gears")?
         
        I lost power to the prop yesterday (fortunately a few hundred feet from the slip).  No grinding or other noise, no bad smell.  Inspection showed it's not the shift control linkage from the binnacle to the transmission.  Prop shaft rotates freely, by hand, with actual shift lever (the one on the transmission itself) in any of the three positions.  Fluid at correct level and looks fine.  So I'm guessing it's the clutch or similar mechanism inside the box, not in the gears themselves.
         
        Any experience with having it rebuilt, buying a rebuilt one, or buying a new one?
         
        It seems very easily accessible and perhaps easy to pull the old one out and pop another one in.  Just a lot of bolts???  Plus replace some old gaskets/hoses/ etc?  No tricky alignment?
         
        I'd be grateful for any comments or advice.

      • john kalinowski
        Rollyn   1. Always put your zincs just upstream of the prop strut.  If you loose your coupler, it stops within an inch.  Saves having to rebuild rudders on
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 4 8:43 AM
          Rollyn
           
          1. Always put your zincs just upstream of the prop strut.  If you loose your coupler, it stops within an inch.  Saves having to rebuild rudders on Pearsons and late model Sabres.
           
          2. Most Hurth folks will tell you to never touch to lower bolt on the tranny. They are the first thing to sieze on a boat, and there is no place to put a pan anyways.  Better to use an auto mobile brake bleeder or oil change vacumn system to get the old ATF out via the top hole.  I like to spend the extra $2 and upgrade to Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.  the stuff was invented for high shear capabilities years ago.

          --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Rollyn Trueblood <rollyn@...> wrote:
          From: Rollyn Trueblood <rollyn@...>
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 10:22 AM

          If your gearshiftt slides forward and back without any friction or doen's make a "clunk" in either direction, you may not have a transmission  glitch. Instead check your coupler.  I just went through that  exercise, but  I discovered it was the coupler when the propeller slid out to the rudder (Pearson 35); the rudder kept the discovery process as an inconvenience instead of a disaster. With the offset left or right on a Sabre its not so obvious until the shaft & propeller reach the sea bed.
           
          But a coupler costs $50 or so, a transmission & parts much more.
           
          The transmissions are actually made in Saville, Spain shipped to Brazil, and then sent to the USA on a favored nations treaty. The repair manual is in English & classical Spanish, not Portuguese as you might suspect. I've enclosed a copy of the manual.
           
          Don't hurry to change the transmission fluid, there is a drain on the bottom that is easy to get to, however the fill on the top is real tough to reach.
          Make sure you can reach and open the fill before you try to change fluids.
           
          Best Wishes,
           
          Rollyn Trueblood
          Pursers Office Inc.
           
          direct: (302) 239-9788
          office: (302) 235-2331
          fax:     (302) 239-7376
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:53 AM
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

          John, thanks for this suggestion.  I see the damper plate on my parts list, exploded diagram on page 308.  The Foley site has lots of info that looks useful.
           
          Apparently the trans must be removed to get at the damper plate.  Anyhow I will take Foley's advice and replace the plate, whatever else turns out to be needed.
           
          Somebody referred to the Hurst transmissions as the "$1/hour transmissions" because they last about one engine hour per dollar of their replacement cost.  Mine, which is likely the original, has given twice that much service, which doesn't sound so great to me either but I guess ain't bad for boat hardware. 
           
          sail on!
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A

          http://www.foleyeng ines.com/ FreeTechnicalInf o/DrDieselTechTi ps/ZF-Hurth- Marine-Transmiss ions.aspx

          --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org> wrote:
          From: Joel Bergsman <joel@bergsman. org>
          Subject: [SabreSailboat] transmission on Westerbeke W 33 A
          To: "Sabre list" <Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com>
          Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 9:34 AM

          Does anyone have experience with replacing/repairing the standard transmission on a Westerbeke W 33 A ("Type HBW short profile sailing gears")?
           
          I lost power to the prop yesterday (fortunately a few hundred feet from the slip).  No grinding or other noise, no bad smell.  Inspection showed it's not the shift control linkage from the binnacle to the transmission.  Prop shaft rotates freely, by hand, with actual shift lever (the one on the transmission itself) in any of the three positions.  Fluid at correct level and looks fine.  So I'm guessing it's the clutch or similar mechanism inside the box, not in the gears themselves.
           
          Any experience with having it rebuilt, buying a rebuilt one, or buying a new one?
           
          It seems very easily accessible and perhaps easy to pull the old one out and pop another one in.  Just a lot of bolts???  Plus replace some old gaskets/hoses/ etc?  No tricky alignment?
           
          I'd be grateful for any comments or advice.


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