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Re: Loos gauge

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  • mt_donahue
    Now that the is it worth it question has been settled, how about the standard vs. pro model question? Is the Loos Pro model worth the extra $$? Mark
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 2, 2008
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      Now that the "is it worth it" question has been settled, how about the
      standard vs. pro model question?

      Is the Loos Pro model worth the extra $$?

      Mark

      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Dave Lochner <davelochner@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > The Loos gauge is the way to go. LIke others have said, it makes
      > setting up the rig much quicker and helps to keep the mast straight.
      >
      > Each spring, I tune the rig to a specific tension (approximately 12%
      > of breaking strength), go sailing a couple of times and then check and
      > re-tension the rig and put the cotter pins in. Its good for the season.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      >
      > On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:39 AM, John Kalinowski wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Bill
      > >
      > > I find it very helpful to quickly dial in the rig each spring and
      > > whenever we make a change.
      > > The more you use it, the faster you get at it.
      > >
      > > Having said that, before you punk down that kind of money, walk the
      > > dock and check with others to see who owns one. I think you will
      > > fine 2-3 sailing buddies who have one aboard and are more than
      > > willing to lend it to you for a beer and a Thank You. Helps us
      > > owners justify the expense by its usage, personal or otherwise.
      > >
      > > If you get good, you can even return the favor by helping set up
      > > their boat using Dedekam's examples. Soon you will be the go-to guy
      > > for rigging questions. Then people bring your free beer.
      > >
      > > Ummmmmm, free beer... ;>)
      > >
      > >
      > > john
      > >
      > > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Bill Blalock <mookiesurfs@...> wrote:
      > > From: Bill Blalock <mookiesurfs@...>
      > > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Loos gauge
      > > To: sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 10:38 AM
      > >
      > > For those of you with a Loos Gauge, do you find it a worthwhile
      > > investment? Do you use it much? My standing rigging is new, and
      > > I'm wondering if a Loos Gauge to help keep it tuned is worth the
      > > $200 (I need up to 3/8"), as opposed to the usual 'That's about
      > > right' hand method. Dedekam's wire stretch measurements work, but
      > > are probably too tedious for constant rig tuning. Any thoughts?
      > > Suggestions?
      > > Bill B
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Gib Metcalf
      I found the Loos gauge very helpful though I d hesitate if mine had cost $200. It s used so infrequently that it s worth going in on with someone. Gib Metcalf
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 2, 2008
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        I found the Loos gauge very helpful though I'd hesitate if mine had cost $200.  It's used so infrequently that it's worth going in on with someone.
        Gib Metcalf

        Bill Blalock wrote:
        For those of you with a Loos Gauge, do you find it a worthwhile investment?  Do you use it much?  My standing rigging is new, and I'm wondering if a Loos Gauge to help keep it tuned is worth the $200 (I need up to 3/8"), as opposed to the usual 'That's about right' hand method.  Dedekam's wire stretch measurements work, but are probably too tedious for constant rig tuning.  Any thoughts?  Suggestions?
        Bill B
      • Warren Kaplan
        I used to tune my rig every year (for about 3 years) to the loos guage suggestions. I was never very happy with the performance. My yard has a dynamite rigger
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 2, 2008
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          I used to tune my rig every year (for about 3 years) to the loos
          guage suggestions. I was never very happy with the performance. My
          yard has a dynamite rigger who rigs all the boats every year. Our
          masts are all unstepped at the end of the season so each year they
          all have to be set up again. He does everything by sight and touch. I
          put a loos guage onto my rigging about a week after the boat is
          launched and he rigs to tensions not even close to those suggested
          for some of the rigging. I left the tension alone as he rigged the
          boat and the boat has never sailed better.

          By the way. Never try and tune a boat by loos guage right after she
          is launched after spending the winter on the hard. When the boat is
          launch it will change shape in the water. After about a week in the
          drink the shape should be okay and then you can start tuning your
          rig. If you do it the day the boat is launched you'll just have to
          redo it about a week later anyway, so it pays to wait the week.

          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Blalock"
          <mookiesurfs@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > For those of you with a Loos Gauge, do you find it a worthwhile
          investment?
          > Do you use it much? My standing rigging is new, and I'm wondering
          if
          a Loos
          > Gauge to help keep it tuned is worth the $200 (I need up to 3/8"),
          as
          > opposed to the usual 'That's about right' hand method. Dedekam's
          wire
          > stretch measurements work, but are probably too tedious for
          constant
          rig
          > tuning. Any thoughts? Suggestions?
          > Bill B
          >
        • Warren Kaplan
          A couple of other things. The final determinant of whether a loos guage tuning or not is for you rests in the performance of your boat. I found that my boat
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 2, 2008
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            A couple of other things. The final determinant of whether a loos
            guage tuning or not is for you rests in the performance of your boat.
            I found that my boat sails better when tuned with somewhat less
            tension then recommended for loos guage rigging. Sail your boat and
            see what works best.

            Also, be wary of overtensioning those shrouds, thereby pushing the
            mast into the deck with more pressure. Some boats will suffer deck
            damage if the mast is over tensioned. If interior doors in the cabin
            aren't opening and closing the way they should it could be because
            the cabin shape is being distorted by too much tension on the mast
            and therefore the maststep. I'm not talking in the abstract here.
            This is definitely known to happen. Of course this is primarily for
            deck stepped masts and not so much for keel stepped masts.

            I'm not trying to scare anyone away from using a loos guage if you
            think that's the way to go. But if you find yourself cranking up the
            tension higher than you are usually used to, take a good look at the
            shape of your coachroof and the symmetry of the cabin below to make
            sure you are not overtensioning and damaging the structure of you
            boat.
            FWIW

            --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Warren Kaplan"
            <setsail728@...> wrote:
            >
            > I used to tune my rig every year (for about 3 years) to the loos
            > guage suggestions. I was never very happy with the performance. My
            > yard has a dynamite rigger who rigs all the boats every year. Our
            > masts are all unstepped at the end of the season so each year they
            > all have to be set up again. He does everything by sight and touch.
            I
            > put a loos guage onto my rigging about a week after the boat is
            > launched and he rigs to tensions not even close to those suggested
            > for some of the rigging. I left the tension alone as he rigged the
            > boat and the boat has never sailed better.
            >
            > By the way. Never try and tune a boat by loos guage right after she
            > is launched after spending the winter on the hard. When the boat is
            > launch it will change shape in the water. After about a week in the
            > drink the shape should be okay and then you can start tuning your
            > rig. If you do it the day the boat is launched you'll just have to
            > redo it about a week later anyway, so it pays to wait the week.
            >
            > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Blalock"
            > <mookiesurfs@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > For those of you with a Loos Gauge, do you find it a worthwhile
            > investment?
            > > Do you use it much? My standing rigging is new, and I'm
            wondering
            > if
            > a Loos
            > > Gauge to help keep it tuned is worth the $200 (I need up to
            3/8"),
            > as
            > > opposed to the usual 'That's about right' hand method. Dedekam's
            > wire
            > > stretch measurements work, but are probably too tedious for
            > constant
            > rig
            > > tuning. Any thoughts? Suggestions?
            > > Bill B
            > >
            >
          • Dave Lochner
            The advantage of a Loos guage is that you get repeatable tension. Once you find the right tension for your rig, measure and record it. Next year tension the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 3, 2008
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              The advantage of a Loos guage is that you get repeatable tension. Once you find the right tension for your rig, measure and record it. Next year tension the rig to those settings. Second it helps to make certain the rig is equally tensioned on both sides of the boat.

              Your advice about waiting a week before tuning, is well taken. In addition to the shape of the hull changing, wire shrouds will contract a bit when they are relaxed. Once under tension they will tend to stretch.

              The proper tension for a rig is just enough to let the top of the mast tip to leeward. You can assess this by sailing to windward and looking at the upper shroud. It should be just slack while the windward one should be taut. Of course, different wind speeds will require different tensions to make this happen, looser in light winds, tighter in stronger winds. The J24 and J30 sailors that I race with will retune their rigs between races in a regatta if the wind conditions change. For most of us, picking a tension for the wind conditions that we typically sail in will probably suffice. I usually sail in 8-15 kts. and set the tension to about 12%  of breaking strength.

              Dave



              On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Warren Kaplan wrote:

              A couple of other things. The final determinant of whether a loos 
              guage tuning or not is for you rests in the performance of your boat. 
              I found that my boat sails better when tuned with somewhat less 
              tension then recommended for loos guage rigging. Sail your boat and 
              see what works best.

              Also, be wary of overtensioning those shrouds, thereby pushing the 
              mast into the deck with more pressure. Some boats will suffer deck 
              damage if the mast is over tensioned. If interior doors in the cabin 
              aren't opening and closing the way they should it could be because 
              the cabin shape is being distorted by too much tension on the mast 
              and therefore the maststep. I'm not talking in the abstract here. 
              This is definitely known to happen. Of course this is primarily for 
              deck stepped masts and not so much for keel stepped masts.

              I'm not trying to scare anyone away from using a loos guage if you 
              think that's the way to go. But if you find yourself cranking up the 
              tension higher than you are usually used to, take a good look at the 
              shape of your coachroof and the symmetry of the cabin below to make 
              sure you are not overtensioning and damaging the structure of you 
              boat.
              FWIW

              --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Warren Kaplan" 
              <setsail728@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > I used to tune my rig every year (for about 3 years) to the loos 
              > guage suggestions. I was never very happy with the performance. My 
              > yard has a dynamite rigger who rigs all the boats every year. Our 
              > masts are all unstepped at the end of the season so each year they 
              > all have to be set up again. He does everything by sight and touch. 
              I 
              > put a loos guage onto my rigging about a week after the boat is 
              > launched and he rigs to tensions not even close to those suggested 
              > for some of the rigging. I left the tension alone as he rigged the 
              > boat and the boat has never sailed better.
              > 
              > By the way. Never try and tune a boat by loos guage right after she 
              > is launched after spending the winter on the hard. When the boat is 
              > launch it will change shape in the water. After about a week in the 
              > drink the shape should be okay and then you can start tuning your 
              > rig. If you do it the day the boat is launched you'll just have to 
              > redo it about a week later anyway, so it pays to wait the week.
              > 
              > --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Blalock" 
              > <mookiesurfs@ > 
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > For those of you with a Loos Gauge, do you find it a worthwhile 
              > investment?
              > > Do you use it much? My standing rigging is new, and I'm 
              wondering 
              > if 
              > a Loos
              > > Gauge to help keep it tuned is worth the $200 (I need up to 
              3/8"), 
              > as
              > > opposed to the usual 'That's about right' hand method. Dedekam's 
              > wire
              > > stretch measurements work, but are probably too tedious for 
              > constant 
              > rig
              > > tuning. Any thoughts? Suggestions?
              > > Bill B
              > >
              >


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