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RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: power boaters

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  • Peter Tollini
    Sid - I understand and you understand. I m just amazed at how many sailors think they have the right of way in almost any circumstance. Interestingly, the
    Message 1 of 35 , Jun 1, 2008

      Sid –

      I understand and you understand. I’m just amazed at how many sailors think they have the right of way in almost any circumstance.

      Interestingly, the “right of way” does not exist as a right.  The burdened vessel has a burden to yield right of way, but the other vessel never actually owns it.

      I try to be courteous to sport fisherman – when trolling for stripers they’ll pull eight or more lines, so turning on a dime could be ugly.  Commercial guys get all the room they need, period.

      Pete

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sid wax
      Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:20 AM
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: power boaters

       

      Actually, sail does not have the right of way over a commercial
      vessel operating in a restricted channel.

      And in general, you won't get very far arguing right of way when your
      pleasure craft, sail or not, is getting in the way of someone trying
      to make a living on the water.

      --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Peter Tollini" <pete@...>
      wrote:

      >
      > Fate can work in mysterious ways. When we were almost run down by a
      60'
      > Viking doing 20kt on autopilot with a cocktail party in full swing
      on the
      > flybridge, I reported the incident to Maryland's DNR Police. The
      segeant
      > who took the info was apologetic and said that since there was no
      collision
      > and the incident was not witnessed by a DNR officer, any
      enforcement action
      > would be difficult, but he'd check out the Viking for any other
      issues. I
      > was still hot, but I understood.
      > He called me back two days later and informed me that the Viking's
      Delaware
      > home port raised a suspicion that the boat was principally used in
      Maryland
      > and the Delaware home port was just a ruse to evade Maryland's 5%
      boat tax.
      > His hunch had proven correct and he seemed quite pleased to
      announce that
      > the owner (a Maryland resident) would be served with a tax bill of
      5% of the
      > boat's value, plus penalties and interest. I checked BUC - it
      was a $750K
      > boat, so that was a cool $37.5K bill, plus penalties and interest.
      It
      > probably even put a noticable dent in the owner's fuel budget.
      > Moral - If you want to fly under the radar, don't be a conspicuous
      a-h. Good
      > advice for the fishermen as well.
      > Also, when I see boats obviously trolling, I try to alter course
      early to
      > clear their spread. They usually recognize the courtesy. Some
      still see it
      > as an entitlement, much like the fool who survives sailing across
      the bow of
      > a tug and tow in a channel, because "sail has the right of way."
      Can't do
      > much about either.
      >
      > Pete
      >
      >
      > On 5/28/08, Dan Trainor <daniel.trainor@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > It was nice in Cuttyhunk this weekend. Less than 20 % of
      moorings taken
      > > and only 2 power boats. Mostly all saliboats. I think the
      majority of
      > > power boaters are done for - too costly.
      > >
      > > On 5/28/08, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Tom wrote:
      > >> > Last Sunday we were having a glorious sail down the coast
      about 4
      > >> > miles offshore from Nahant. I was dozing on the leeward side
      and my
      > >> > wife who is not at all comfortable at the helm was steering
      a
      steady
      > >> > course toward Deer island when coming from behind us some
      guys
      fishing
      > >> > off their cabin cruiser started yelling at us to learn the
      rules and
      > >> > then called my wife a f*cking asshole.
      > >> >
      > >> > They altered course slightly and passed astearn before I
      could
      engage
      > >> > them in some polite interesting discussion about the
      difference
      > >> > between being a "vessel engaged in fishing" and
      fishing and
      proper
      > >> > manners etc.
      > >> >
      > >> > It was a red fishing boat, new. I did not get registration
      numbers or
      > >> > the name nor did I have time to get out my flare gun (damn)
      :)
      > >> >
      > >> > I know that bad manners and powerboating are rarely mutually
      exclusive
      > >> > but you all might want to keep an eye out for these jerks.
      > >> >
      > >> > They did not manage to ruin one of the nicest days on the
      water ever
      > >> tho.
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> Think of the spot market price of crude and how happy the jerk
      will be
      > >> at his next fillup. Jerk seeking missiles would be more
      immediate, but
      > >> the global economy will be almost as good.
      > >>
      > >> --
      > >> James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
      > >> MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com
      > >> Office: 978 526-1376
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Dan
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >

    • Peter Tollini
      Good points Jim, and those are just the sailors - You forgot to include boats named after unnatural acts or illicit substances. There have been intimations on
      Message 35 of 35 , Jun 4, 2008
        Good points Jim, and those are just the sailors -
        You forgot to include boats named after unnatural acts or illicit substances.
         
        There have been intimations on this list that dangling fenders are the unofficial insignia of a particular boat builder.  We live near a marina that is in a lagoon with a single channel out to deep water allowing for critical observation.  After a few weekends of casual study, I think there may be empirical evidence to support the rumor.
         
        Pete

         
        On 6/4/08, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:

        Peter Tollini wrote:
        > Jeff -
        > When you think about, 14(d) really an extension of the 'limited
        > maneuverability" concept. The vessel headed upcurrent has exaggerated
        > maneuverability and the downcurrent vessel exactly the opposite. When
        > the vessels are often tugs with large tows and the waterway is river,
        > the more explicit passing rule is a real plus.
        > If you really want to interpret the Rules, you have to look at them in
        > two ways, first what was the intent of the writers, then, how have the
        > courts historically interpreted them. If you are so inclined,
        > maritime cases make interesting reading, but don't usually shed a lot
        > of light on the issues that really effect us.
        > The maritime right of way concept has carried over to most state
        > traffic laws, which normally do not grant a right of way, but rather
        > create an obligation to yield, as in burdened and stand-on. We've
        > all seen the havoc that an assumed or claimed right of way can cause
        > on either land or sea. The stand on vessel still has an obligation
        > to avoid a collision, but any moves to do so must be both early and
        > clear enough that you don't zig just as he zags. This is great quote
        > from a judge in a collision case, directed to the driver of the
        > privileged vehicle - "...the fact that he wasn't supposed to be there
        > doesn't relieve you of responsibility to avoid the the collision - and
        > you clearly could have - and it sure as hell didn't create a right for
        > you to run into him."
        >
        > Trivia - In 1895, there were only two motorcars in the entire State of
        > Ohio. They hit each other. We've been carrying on the tradition,
        > with Murphy's guidance, ever since.
        >
        > Learning the Rules is good, but always assume the other guy has never
        > seen them and may only be dimly aware of their existence, at best.
        > Accordingly, I subscribe to what Jim calls the tonnage rule, or what
        > I've known as the Island Rules - "De big boat got de right o' way,
        > mon!" when I'm the little boat, and the Inland Rules when I'm the big
        > boat.
        >

        There are other rules as well. For example, if he's dangling fenders
        over the side, you can be assured he doesn't have a clue and should be
        given a wide berth. Ditto a scalloped jibe or an ensign flown from the
        bow or a radio whip. Or if the helmsman is talking on a cell phone...

        --
        James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
        MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com
        Office: 978 526-1376


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