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Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

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  • Nauset Beach
    John and others, Thanks for the detailed responses. Will print them out, grab a wire brush, buy some Blaster and have at the bolts. That will at least get
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 4 4:41 AM
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      John and others,
       
      Thanks for the detailed responses.  Will print them out, grab a wire brush, buy some Blaster and have at the bolts.  That will at least get the process started.  Can then assess the tool deficiencies and start filling the gaps.  Of course everything is metric on the Yanmar.
       
      Brian
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

      Brian
       
      Took my nephew and myself 6 hours each to replace mine on a westerbeke. First time and a lot was being nice. Port stern mount where water from intercooler had corroded it in consumed a lot of time staring, coming back the following weekend to finish it up etc.
      Note this was for a Westerbeke, but the process should be close.
       
      Basically wirebrush and liberally spray all mounts with PB Blaster several days/weeks ahead of time.  Then using a deep 6 sided socket on top with a wrench on the bottom nut, undo 1 mount top bolts. Suggest you start up front where you can see what you are doing until you get the hang of it..  when successful, take top nut off and using a wrench, loosen the bottom one. This will allow youslack so you can undo the 2 stringer lag bolts and then slip the mount out from below. Reinstall can be done by reversing the steps.  Do one mount at a time and your lifting of the motor is zip.
       
      This method also keeps your alignment fairly close.  If you do need to move the mill, we used some 5/8" line doubled around a 4' 2x3 and the motor and just lifted it between us as we each laid on opposite sides of the boat.
       
      What happens when the old mount does not want to come out?
       
      If you have one mount really in there, you got to get mean, real mean.  Cover area with sheet metal and use a torch to warm top nut until it wants to cooperate.  Or you can use a heavy duty cutoff wheels on a dremel to cut the top nut & stud off at the engine foot.  Don't be nice, just get at it. If you do, the entire job is proably 3 hours + realignment time. Note you will realign when back in the water.
       
      Rear mount feet:
       
       Note the aft feet on the Westerbekes are cast iron and sometimes the stud is corroded solid to the foot (1 of mine was). Cut stud flush with foot top. Starting with a small drill bit for stainless, drill down about 1/2".  Use cutting fluid or wd-40 to keep from dulling the bit too quickly. Then using progessively large bits, drill the stud out to the foot hole edges.  The bitch is the tight room to work in, but it can be done. When you are done, turn the lower nut and/or lift the motor while the lag bolts are in. This will free any reminants of stud from the foot. the new Westerbekes have removable motor feet which make replacement an absolute breeze. Looks like they learned something. 
       
      Hints:
       
      Put some white rags in the bilge to catch nuts and bolts that may fall down there. Easier to find that way. 
       
      Also get as much light in there as possible. 
       
      clean the bilge extra good before you start in case you have to start hunting with your hands for a dropped socket, washer etc.
       
      Use 1/2" drives for more leverage. Do not forget to bring an assortment of extensions & u-joints so you can get around obsacles in the engine compartment.
       
      Have leather gloves to keep your knuckles in 1 piece.  If I had the tools and this information, I bet I could have knocked this off in a total of about 4 hours by myself.
       
      john

      Nauset Beach <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
      Dick's post is timely, though I already have the engine mounts, just need to do the actual replacement.  After consulting a couple mechanics last fall I obtained Yanmar mounts for the 3GM30F.  These should fit right into the existing holes in the engine bed.
       
      Has anybody done this themselves and / or be able to provide a step by step plan of how to do this, or critique my thoughts?  The indicative quotes from local mechanics for just the labor doing the installation are 10+ hours at $90 per hour, so I would prefer to not blow the budget on this if I can avoid it.  The mounts themselves were expensive enough.  Dick's website was helpful but not directly applicable.
       
      I assume I would need to loosen [if not disconnect] the transmission from the shaft coupling to allow the engine to be raised to remove / replace the mounts themselves.  Would need these bolts loosened to adjust the alignment anyway - something that has never been done since I have owned the boat.
       
      The bolts are quite rusted - any tips on accomplishing this?  Believe others went through this when adding a drive saver or a PSS several years ago.  What is the best method?  Penetrating oil? [what type?]  Heat / cold cycles? [Have a propane torch but the cold part is not as easily accomplished - believe some have used fire extinguishers?]  A very big hammer?  ;)
       
      Any suggestions on how to raise / support the engine?  The forward edge of the engine is at least 18" aft of the companionway, so a suspended cable / chain is not feasable.  Would not help for the aft mounts anyway. 
       
      My only thought is a mechanical car jack [on some wood / plywood laid on the hull to distribute the load] lifting a rod of some sort inserted under the mount attachment points bolted to the engine.  The other end of the rod would have to rest on some other wood blocks to create the fulcrum.  There is only about 1 - 1.5" of space between the engine and the engine mount so am concluding this would have to be a 1" metal rod.
       
      I would plan on using new fasteners on the mounts rather than reusing the old, rusted bolts / nuts.  Just need to get one out so can determine what size is needed.
       
      Once the mounts are replaced and the engine is back in place, would need to check the alignment.  What size feeler gauge should be used?  Over the years others have briefly mentioned what they did but I did not save those posts.  Would plan to fine tune the alignment after the boat is launched.
       
      Am certain I am missing something.  Any help / tips / suggestions are appreciated - on or off list.
       
      Thanks,
      Brian



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    • Bill Blalock
      An engineer freind of mine replaced his mounts last summer. He laid a hefty piece of angle iron on top of the boom with the open angle facing down. He put a
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 4 11:42 AM
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        An engineer freind of mine replaced his mounts last summer.  He laid a hefty piece of angle iron on top of the boom with the open angle facing down.  He put a 2x4 brace under the end of the boom.  He made a little wheeled car that rolled on top of the angle iron, and slung a multiple block from it underneath the boom.  With another multiple block at the engine, he positioned the car over the engine and hoisted the engine up.  He rolled the engine forward out of the engine compartment and then hoisted it all of the way up to the boom, and rolled it back into the cockpit.  There, he just lowered the engine onto wood blocks in the cockpit.  He did this a couple of times for different projects, and once because there was a recall on the first set of Westerbeke mounts he put in.  He could pull his engine by himself in an hour, and put it in in a couple of hours.  It was pretty slick, I thought.
         
        Bill B
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:48 PM
        Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

        Brian,
         
        Try PB Blaster for the any frozen bolts on the old mounts. I was able to use a 2x4 on top of some wood blocks (fulcrum) to raise my engine short distances and also to position when doing my alignment. I would take the mounts out and replace with new mounts one at a time so you really only have to get the weight off the one mount by using the 2x4 and sliding something (block of wood) in there temporarily (right where the mount was) until you get the new mount ready to slide in. Suggest you have an extra set of hands for this.
        I have an engine installation manual from Yanmar that gives the maximum gap for alignment as .2 mm. I bought my feeler guage at Home Depot I think.
         
        Brooks Wright
        S34 #31

        Nauset Beach <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
        Dick's post is timely, though I already have the engine mounts, just need to do the actual replacement.  After consulting a couple mechanics last fall I obtained Yanmar mounts for the 3GM30F.  These should fit right into the existing holes in the engine bed.
         
        Has anybody done this themselves and / or be able to provide a step by step plan of how to do this, or critique my thoughts?  The indicative quotes from local mechanics for just the labor doing the installation are 10+ hours at $90 per hour, so I would prefer to not blow the budget on this if I can avoid it.  The mounts themselves were expensive enough.  Dick's website was helpful but not directly applicable.
         
        I assume I would need to loosen [if not disconnect] the transmission from the shaft coupling to allow the engine to be raised to remove / replace the mounts themselves.  Would need these bolts loosened to adjust the alignment anyway - something that has never been done since I have owned the boat.
         
        The bolts are quite rusted - any tips on accomplishing this?  Believe others went through this when adding a drive saver or a PSS several years ago.  What is the best method?  Penetrating oil? [what type?]  Heat / cold cycles? [Have a propane torch but the cold part is not as easily accomplished - believe some have used fire extinguishers?]  A very big hammer?  ;)
         
        Any suggestions on how to raise / support the engine?  The forward edge of the engine is at least 18" aft of the companionway, so a suspended cable / chain is not feasable.  Would not help for the aft mounts anyway. 
         
        My only thought is a mechanical car jack [on some wood / plywood laid on the hull to distribute the load] lifting a rod of some sort inserted under the mount attachment points bolted to the engine.  The other end of the rod would have to rest on some other wood blocks to create the fulcrum.  There is only about 1 - 1.5" of space between the engine and the engine mount so am concluding this would have to be a 1" metal rod.
         
        I would plan on using new fasteners on the mounts rather than reusing the old, rusted bolts / nuts.  Just need to get one out so can determine what size is needed.
         
        Once the mounts are replaced and the engine is back in place, would need to check the alignment.  What size feeler gauge should be used?  Over the years others have briefly mentioned what they did but I did not save those posts.  Would plan to fine tune the alignment after the boat is launched.
         
        Am certain I am missing something.  Any help / tips / suggestions are appreciated - on or off list.
         
        Thanks,
        Brian


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      • Tom & Rose
        Ralph, To Confirm my experience: 1. Yes, you do need to disconnect the shaft coupling. This allows you to move the engine to be aligned with the shaft. It
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 5 6:55 AM
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          Message
          Ralph,
           
          To Confirm my experience:
           
          1.  Yes, you do need to disconnect the shaft coupling.  This allows you to move the engine to be aligned with the shaft.  It also requires that you determine the shafts natural angles through the hull tube.  Once the natural shaft position is determine the shaft should be blocked in place during the engine alignment procedure.  Don't forget to unblock it when finished.
           
          2.  I don't feel you have to be in a hurry to raise the engine a couple inches.  Just remove all four top nuts.  Then start with one mount at a time, remove the mounting lag screws and then determine just how much you need to raise the engine to get that mount out.  Replace that mount with the new one.  Then move on to the next.
           
          3.  If you have no rust you should have an easier time breaking the nuts free.
           
          4.  I don't think I had to turn the mounts 90 deg to get them out, just slide the bottom out first to clear the rails, then lower to get the threaded shaft out.
           
          I did not replace with new mounts, I got some old ones with the MD7A I got from Jim Kevern when he repowered.  I don't remember why I wanted to replace them, I think one may have been badly rusted or broken.  Old two cylinder diesels will vibrate.  Not much you can do about that.  We don't have any sound insulation installed at this time and it has not bothered us to the point of putting it on the high priority list yet.
           
          Good luck,
          Tom


          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
          Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:05 PM
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

          Carter & Tom:

          Thanks for your inputs.  I want to be sure I understand the following:
           
          1)  I DO need to disconnect the shaft coupling
          2) I DO need to raise the engine a couple of inches.  Can do this with a 2x4 or sim.
          3)  I have no rust on my monting lugs, so nuts should come off easily, but I have PB Blaster just in case.
          4)  The trick is to turn the mounts 90 deg to the rails in order to remove them.
           
          Otherwise, I think I have got it.  I'm saving your replies just in case.
           
          BTW... Any noticable improvement in vibration and noise with the new mounts?
           
          Thanks for the web address of Tantalus and thanks again for your replies.
           
          Ralph
          S-28 # 513 Windrider
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:36 PM
          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

          Ralph,
           
          I changed out a couple of the mounts on our MD7A during our restoration.  The engine only weighs about 300 lbs and you don't have to lift it all at once and you don't have to raise it very far to get the bolts to clear.  I'm going from memory as this was a couple years ago.
           
          First, as others have said, spray the threads with PB Blaster or equivalent and let it soak for a day or so.  If they are real rusty, like ours were, you may need to do it twice.  Then remove the top nut.  This is a tight squeeze on a S30 and probably just as tight on a S28.  I could not fit a ratchet and socket on these nuts.  I think I ended up using a box end wrench.  One nut wouldn't budge and I ended up have to cut it off with a hacksaw.  That took a long time, maybe an hour.
           
          With the top nuts removed the engine can be raised.  The next thing to do is remove the two lag screws holding the mount to the rails.  I think at least one of the front mounts could then be removed by simply sliding the bottom of the mount outward while rolling the mount out from the engine.  If need be you can raise the front of the engine a little by using a lever (2x4, etc.) under the flywheel.  Be VERY careful what you brace the lever against.  You wouldn't want to press it through the bottom of the boat for instance.  I think I put a 2x4 across the cabin sole and pried against that.  Just think it through first.  Your not really lifting much weight, maybe 100 lbs at most.
           
          Replace one mount before moving on to the next.  By placing a new pair of bottom nut/jamb nut in the same location as those on the mount you removed you should be pretty close on alignment.
           
          The rear mount access was a PIA, especially the port side.  Same basic idea though, except this time the engine may have to be lifted a bit from side to side.
           
          Alignment is a patience tester.  The link to the instructions previously posted are pretty accurate.  The only part missing is small amounts of alcohol for yourself help take the edge off.  Taking your time here and getting it right is well worth the effort.  I used standard feeler gauges, a fine touch and some experience I got watching millwrights balance big fan shafts in the power plants where I used to work.
           
          Good luck,

          Tom
          1980 Sabre 30   #12
          "Imagination"
          Chesapeake Bay (MD)



          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lorman, Alvin J.
          Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:04 PM
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

          I've never done it, but I've read that a good way to raise an engine in place is to put a partially deflated basketball or soccer ball under the engine and then inflate the ball.
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
          Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:02 PM
          To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

          All;
           
          Has anyone replaced the engine mounts on a Volvo MD7-A?  I purchased the mounts some time ago with the intention of doing this myself, but I have stalled on the idea as it looks to me that I will have to raise the engine a few inches to do the replacement. 
          No problem with disconnecting the fuel & exhaust hoses and the transmission coupling, but can't figure out how to lift the engine without some sort of sky hook.  Can I do this while boat is in the slip?
           
          Thanks in advance for your comments.

          Ralph
          Sabre 28 # 513  Windrider
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: R. Coerse
          Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

          10 plus hours????  Sounds like you are paying for classroom training time........ We had my engine completely out with EVERYTHING (fuel feed, fuel return, all electrical connections, raw water intake, domestic water heater, exhaust, shaft coupling, throttle cable, shift cable etc.) disconnected and the transmission, flywheel, damper plate, bell housing, heat exchanger and starter motor removed in less than 9 total man hours (my time plus the mechanic's)  I believe I could change out my motor mounts by myself in approx. 3 hours plus alignment time.  Just make sure you soak the mount nuts real well with a good penetrating fluid like PB Blaster or Kroil if they show any signs of corrosion.

          Nauset Beach wrote:
          Dick's post is timely, though I already have the engine mounts, just need to do the actual replacement.  After consulting a couple mechanics last fall I obtained Yanmar mounts for the 3GM30F.  These should fit right into the existing holes in the engine bed.
           
          Has anybody done this themselves and / or be able to provide a step by step plan of how to do this, or critique my thoughts?  The indicative quotes from local mechanics for just the labor doing the installation are 10+ hours at $90 per hour, so I would prefer to not blow the budget on this if I can avoid it.  The mounts themselves were expensive enough.  Dick's website was helpful but not directly applicable.
           
          I assume I would need to loosen [if not disconnect] the transmission from the shaft coupling to allow the engine to be raised to remove / replace the mounts themselves.  Would need these bolts loosened to adjust the alignment anyway - something that has never been done since I have owned the boat.
           
          The bolts are quite rusted - any tips on accomplishing this?  Believe others went through this when adding a drive saver or a PSS several years ago.  What is the best method?  Penetrating oil? [what type?]  Heat / cold cycles? [Have a propane torch but the cold part is not as easily accomplished - believe some have used fire extinguishers?]  A very big hammer?  ;)
           
          Any suggestions on how to raise / support the engine?  The forward edge of the engine is at least 18" aft of the companionway, so a suspended cable / chain is not feasable.  Would not help for the aft mounts anyway. 
           
          My only thought is a mechanical car jack [on some wood / plywood laid on the hull to distribute the load] lifting a rod of some sort inserted under the mount attachment points bolted to the engine.  The other end of the rod would have to rest on some other wood blocks to create the fulcrum.  There is only about 1 - 1.5" of space between the engine and the engine mount so am concluding this would have to be a 1" metal rod.
           
          I would plan on using new fasteners on the mounts rather than reusing the old, rusted bolts / nuts.  Just need to get one out so can determine what size is needed.
           
          Once the mounts are replaced and the engine is back in place, would need to check the alignment.  What size feeler gauge should be used?  Over the years others have briefly mentioned what they did but I did not save those posts.  Would plan to fine tune the alignment after the boat is launched.
           
          Am certain I am missing something.  Any help / tips / suggestions are appreciated - on or off list.
           
          Thanks,
          Brian

          =00



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        • Nauset Beach
          Bill, Sounds like a great setup, but doubt that would work for me. The forward edge of the engine is at least 18 aft of the companionway, so any form of
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 5 7:00 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Bill,
             
            Sounds like a great setup, but doubt that would work for me.  The forward edge of the engine is at least 18" aft of the companionway, so any form of "skyhook" would be pulling more forward than up.  And there would be those pesky rear mounts.  Think I am resigned to using a lever.
             
            Did get and use PB Blaster yesterday afternoon and was able to free all the rusted bolts that time allowed.  Fabulous stuff - thanks all for the recommendation.  Next w/e need to loosen the 8 bolts on the mounts themselves and then attempt to raise the engine.
             
            Brian
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 2:42 PM
            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

            An engineer freind of mine replaced his mounts last summer.  He laid a hefty piece of angle iron on top of the boom with the open angle facing down.  He put a 2x4 brace under the end of the boom.  He made a little wheeled car that rolled on top of the angle iron, and slung a multiple block from it underneath the boom.  With another multiple block at the engine, he positioned the car over the engine and hoisted the engine up.  He rolled the engine forward out of the engine compartment and then hoisted it all of the way up to the boom, and rolled it back into the cockpit.  There, he just lowered the engine onto wood blocks in the cockpit.  He did this a couple of times for different projects, and once because there was a recall on the first set of Westerbeke mounts he put in.  He could pull his engine by himself in an hour, and put it in in a couple of hours.  It was pretty slick, I thought.
             
            Bill B
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Replacing Engine Mounts

            Brian,
             
            Try PB Blaster for the any frozen bolts on the old mounts. I was able to use a 2x4 on top of some wood blocks (fulcrum) to raise my engine short distances and also to position when doing my alignment. I would take the mounts out and replace with new mounts one at a time so you really only have to get the weight off the one mount by using the 2x4 and sliding something (block of wood) in there temporarily (right where the mount was) until you get the new mount ready to slide in. Suggest you have an extra set of hands for this.
            I have an engine installation manual from Yanmar that gives the maximum gap for alignment as .2 mm. I bought my feeler guage at Home Depot I think.
             
            Brooks Wright
            S34 #31

            Nauset Beach <nausetbeach@...> wrote:
            Dick's post is timely, though I already have the engine mounts, just need to do the actual replacement.  After consulting a couple mechanics last fall I obtained Yanmar mounts for the 3GM30F.  These should fit right into the existing holes in the engine bed.
             
            Has anybody done this themselves and / or be able to provide a step by step plan of how to do this, or critique my thoughts?  The indicative quotes from local mechanics for just the labor doing the installation are 10+ hours at $90 per hour, so I would prefer to not blow the budget on this if I can avoid it.  The mounts themselves were expensive enough.  Dick's website was helpful but not directly applicable.
             
            I assume I would need to loosen [if not disconnect] the transmission from the shaft coupling to allow the engine to be raised to remove / replace the mounts themselves.  Would need these bolts loosened to adjust the alignment anyway - something that has never been done since I have owned the boat.
             
            The bolts are quite rusted - any tips on accomplishing this?  Believe others went through this when adding a drive saver or a PSS several years ago.  What is the best method?  Penetrating oil? [what type?]  Heat / cold cycles? [Have a propane torch but the cold part is not as easily accomplished - believe some have used fire extinguishers?]  A very big hammer?  ;)
             
            Any suggestions on how to raise / support the engine?  The forward edge of the engine is at least 18" aft of the companionway, so a suspended cable / chain is not feasable.  Would not help for the aft mounts anyway. 
             
            My only thought is a mechanical car jack [on some wood / plywood laid on the hull to distribute the load] lifting a rod of some sort inserted under the mount attachment points bolted to the engine.  The other end of the rod would have to rest on some other wood blocks to create the fulcrum.  There is only about 1 - 1.5" of space between the engine and the engine mount so am concluding this would have to be a 1" metal rod.
             
            I would plan on using new fasteners on the mounts rather than reusing the old, rusted bolts / nuts.  Just need to get one out so can determine what size is needed.
             
            Once the mounts are replaced and the engine is back in place, would need to check the alignment.  What size feeler gauge should be used?  Over the years others have briefly mentioned what they did but I did not save those posts.  Would plan to fine tune the alignment after the boat is launched.
             
            Am certain I am missing something.  Any help / tips / suggestions are appreciated - on or off list.
             
            Thanks,
            Brian


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