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Radar Cable

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  • Charlie Hodgman
    Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar. Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the mast each winter.
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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      Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
      Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the
      mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not recommend"
      slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
      installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base of the
      mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
      greatly appreciated. Charlie
    • Jim Starkey
      ... Every radar manufacturer recommends against cutting the cable. On the other hand, it basically isn t possible to install a radar on a sailboat without
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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        Charlie Hodgman wrote:
        > Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
        > Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the
        > mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not recommend"
        > slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
        > installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base of the
        > mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
        > greatly appreciated. Charlie
        >
        >
        >
        Every radar manufacturer recommends against cutting the cable. On the
        other hand, it basically isn't possible to install a radar on a sailboat
        without cutting the cable.

        How to do it, however, depending on what kind of cable it is. Oldest
        designs tend to two dozen or more conductors plus a strand or two of
        coax. These can be cut and either spliced or (better) connected to a
        junction box. Generally, however, you want to keep the full length of
        the cable to preserve any tuning done at the factory. Find the least
        annoying spot along the cable run to hold the excess cable.

        Newer designs use Ethernet technology and CAT5 cable. CAT5, unlike the
        analogy coax, doesn't give a hoot about length, at least any length that
        can be found is a sailbox smaller than the Eagle. If your radar does
        use CAT5, I suggest you spend a bundle for Garmin bulkhead connector and
        a couple of Garmin waterproof RJ45 connectors. This will give you a
        connection that can be unplugged but still waterproof -- the best of
        both worlds. You will need to beg, borrow, or steal an RJ45 crimping
        tool (Home Depot, about $20), a CAT5 cable tester ($30+), and some
        wire. There are a couple of tricks involved in making the connectors,
        so if you go that route, let me know.

        --
        James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
        MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com
        Office: 978 526-1376
      • Jeffrey Kay
        Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you tack. Less weight aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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          Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you tack. Less weight
          aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by lightning (excuse the
          pessimism, but it's only a matter of time)!!


          Jeff Kay
          s/v Luna Blue
          Sabre 386 #274
          Greenwich, CT



          --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Hodgman" <chodgmanjr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
          > Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the
          > mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not recommend"
          > slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
          > installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base of the
          > mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
          > greatly appreciated. Charlie
          >
        • Mike Merriman (Comcast)
          I put a garhauer stern mounted pole up this year. I used a blue seas cable clam to pass the big ass connector thru. I can unplug the unit at the radome (nice
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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            I put a garhauer stern mounted pole up this year.  I used a blue seas cable clam to pass the big ass connector thru.  I can unplug the unit at the radome (nice feature of the garmin) and take the pole down easily.

            Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:18 PM
            Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Radar Cable

            Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you tack. Less weight
            aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by lightning (excuse the
            pessimism, but it's only a matter of time)!!

            Jeff Kay
            s/v Luna Blue
            Sabre 386 #274
            Greenwich, CT

            --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Charlie Hodgman" <chodgmanjr@ ...> wrote:

            >
            > Ok, next
            question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
            > Comes with a
            nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the
            > mast each
            winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not recommend"
            > slicing the
            cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
            > installing a
            weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base of the
            > mast. What
            have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
            > greatly
            appreciated. Charlie
            >

          • Ed Burke
            It seems to me that there may be several disadvantages with a radar pole. The radome will still be fairly high, and there is the added weight of the pole, and
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 9, 2007
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              It seems to me that there may be several disadvantages with a radar pole.
               
              The radome will still be fairly high, and there is the added weight of the pole, and it will all be far from the center of gravity of the boat - so I'm not sure that it's impact on boat rocking (especially fore/aft) will be much different.  After adding significant weight to the bow (bigger anchor, more chain and windlass) and to the stern (dinghy and davits - I can assure you their impacts are all noticeable.
               
              There is an issue with radiation from the radar when it is mounted close to the cockpit.  I understand that the antenna beam is pretty narrow, but the beam is not fully formed close to the antenna, and there are reflections.  Since my wife has a pacemaker RF energy concerns me ( the field strength from my SSB exceeds the pacemaker manufacturer's recommendations if she is in the cockpit when I transmit. And the peak power from the radar is much higher  - 4KW vs 150W.
               
              Aesthetically, I think the radar on the mast is less obtrusive, something that means something on a Sabre (IMHO).  I hate the way Sabre looks with davits and outboard lift, even though the davits themselves are a work of art (KATO).
               
              I think the impact of reflections from the mast and rigging and radar reflector will be more significant to the pole mounted.  The closer these objects are to the antenna the more diffraction around them you get.  I've not done the detailed analysis, but think of the impact your finger makes in front of a flashlight, close to the lens and farther away.  Up close there is no real shadow cast by your finger, but the farther away, the more distinct the shaddow.  I've not really convinced myself this is an issue for radar, so if anyone knows definitively please let me know.
               
              All of that said, I have not ruled out a radar pole on my boat when I add radar - but I'm leaning toward the mast.
               
                           Ed Burke
                          Merlin S38MKI (for sale)
                          http://home.comcast.net/~svmerlin
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kay
              Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:18 PM
              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Radar Cable

              Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you tack. Less weight
              aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by lightning (excuse the
              pessimism, but it's only a matter of time)!!

              Jeff Kay
              s/v Luna Blue
              Sabre 386 #274
              Greenwich, CT

              --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, "Charlie Hodgman" <chodgmanjr@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
              > Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to unstep the
              > mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not recommend"
              > slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
              > installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base of the
              > mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
              > greatly appreciated. Charlie
              >

            • Charlie Hodgman
              Yeah, the main reason I m leaning towards a mast mount is asthetics. The Sabres have such great lines, and I really feel the radar mast on the stern detracts
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 9, 2007
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                Yeah, the main reason I'm leaning towards a mast mount is asthetics.
                The Sabres have such great lines, and I really feel the radar mast on
                the stern detracts from the looks. I like the gimbaled backstay
                mounts but they cost 6 times what a mast mount does. The gimbaling is
                really not an issue for me, as my experience has been that every time
                I MUST travel in fog I'm motoring. I don't know about others, but most
                times when it's foggy in Mass bay, the wind ain't what I call brisk.
                Thanks for the input. Charlie


                --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Burke" <merlin0038@...> wrote:
                >
                > It seems to me that there may be several disadvantages with a radar
                pole.
                >
                > The radome will still be fairly high, and there is the added weight
                of the
                > pole, and it will all be far from the center of gravity of the boat
                - so I'm
                > not sure that it's impact on boat rocking (especially fore/aft) will
                be much
                > different. After adding significant weight to the bow (bigger
                anchor, more
                > chain and windlass) and to the stern (dinghy and davits - I can
                assure you
                > their impacts are all noticeable.
                >
                > There is an issue with radiation from the radar when it is mounted
                close to
                > the cockpit. I understand that the antenna beam is pretty narrow,
                but the
                > beam is not fully formed close to the antenna, and there are
                reflections.
                > Since my wife has a pacemaker RF energy concerns me ( the field strength
                > from my SSB exceeds the pacemaker manufacturer's recommendations if
                she is
                > in the cockpit when I transmit. And the peak power from the radar is
                much
                > higher - 4KW vs 150W.
                >
                > Aesthetically, I think the radar on the mast is less obtrusive,
                something
                > that means something on a Sabre (IMHO). I hate the way Sabre looks with
                > davits and outboard lift, even though the davits themselves are a
                work of
                > art (KATO).
                >
                > I think the impact of reflections from the mast and rigging and radar
                > reflector will be more significant to the pole mounted. The closer
                these
                > objects are to the antenna the more diffraction around them you get.
                I've
                > not done the detailed analysis, but think of the impact your finger
                makes in
                > front of a flashlight, close to the lens and farther away. Up close
                there
                > is no real shadow cast by your finger, but the farther away, the more
                > distinct the shaddow. I've not really convinced myself this is an
                issue for
                > radar, so if anyone knows definitively please let me know.
                >
                > All of that said, I have not ruled out a radar pole on my boat when
                I add
                > radar - but I'm leaning toward the mast.
                >
                > Ed Burke
                > Merlin S38MKI (for sale)
                > http://home.comcast.net/~svmerlin
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kay
                > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:18 PM
                > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Radar Cable
                >
                >
                > Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you
                > tack. Less weight
                > aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by
                lightning
                > (excuse the
                > pessimism, but it's only a matter of time)!!
                >
                > Jeff Kay
                > s/v Luna Blue
                > Sabre 386 #274
                > Greenwich, CT
                >
                > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Hodgman" <chodgmanjr@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
                > > Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to
                unstep the
                > > mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not
                recommend"
                > > slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
                > > installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base
                of the
                > > mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
                > > greatly appreciated. Charlie
                > >
                >
              • David Felsenthal
                I ve always been partial to radar on a pole rather than on the mast. 1: The distance from the transom mounted radar to the center of gravity of the boat is
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 10, 2007
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                  I've always been partial to radar on a pole rather than on the mast.

                  1: The distance from the transom mounted radar to the center of gravity
                  of the boat is about 1/2 - 3/4 of the distance to a mast mounted radar.
                  This of course depends where one mounts the radar on the mast, I'm
                  assuming somewhere about at a spreader, either the lower, or the only one.

                  The effect of a pole mounted radar is probably comparable in terms of
                  pitching moment of inertia as a mast mounted radar. The big difference
                  is the effect on righting moment. The boat will hell a bit more with a
                  mast mounted radar. Not a lot, but definitely some.

                  3: I don't want the extra weight on the mast in a rough sea.

                  4: If I need to get to the radar it is easier.

                  5: In my opinion the aesthetics are better on a pole.

                  and as an aside, I've encountered limited visibility and breeze together
                  almost everywhere I have sailed. Not as often as calm and fog, but enough.

                  David



                  Charlie Hodgman wrote:
                  > Yeah, the main reason I'm leaning towards a mast mount is asthetics.
                  > The Sabres have such great lines, and I really feel the radar mast on
                  > the stern detracts from the looks. I like the gimbaled backstay
                  > mounts but they cost 6 times what a mast mount does. The gimbaling is
                  > really not an issue for me, as my experience has been that every time
                  > I MUST travel in fog I'm motoring. I don't know about others, but most
                  > times when it's foggy in Mass bay, the wind ain't what I call brisk.
                  > Thanks for the input. Charlie
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Burke" <merlin0038@...> wrote:
                  >> It seems to me that there may be several disadvantages with a radar
                  > pole.
                  >> The radome will still be fairly high, and there is the added weight
                  > of the
                  >> pole, and it will all be far from the center of gravity of the boat
                  > - so I'm
                  >> not sure that it's impact on boat rocking (especially fore/aft) will
                  > be much
                  >> different. After adding significant weight to the bow (bigger
                  > anchor, more
                  >> chain and windlass) and to the stern (dinghy and davits - I can
                  > assure you
                  >> their impacts are all noticeable.
                  >>
                  >> There is an issue with radiation from the radar when it is mounted
                  > close to
                  >> the cockpit. I understand that the antenna beam is pretty narrow,
                  > but the
                  >> beam is not fully formed close to the antenna, and there are
                  > reflections.
                  >> Since my wife has a pacemaker RF energy concerns me ( the field strength
                  >> from my SSB exceeds the pacemaker manufacturer's recommendations if
                  > she is
                  >> in the cockpit when I transmit. And the peak power from the radar is
                  > much
                  >> higher - 4KW vs 150W.
                  >>
                  >> Aesthetically, I think the radar on the mast is less obtrusive,
                  > something
                  >> that means something on a Sabre (IMHO). I hate the way Sabre looks with
                  >> davits and outboard lift, even though the davits themselves are a
                  > work of
                  >> art (KATO).
                  >>
                  >> I think the impact of reflections from the mast and rigging and radar
                  >> reflector will be more significant to the pole mounted. The closer
                  > these
                  >> objects are to the antenna the more diffraction around them you get.
                  > I've
                  >> not done the detailed analysis, but think of the impact your finger
                  > makes in
                  >> front of a flashlight, close to the lens and farther away. Up close
                  > there
                  >> is no real shadow cast by your finger, but the farther away, the more
                  >> distinct the shaddow. I've not really convinced myself this is an
                  > issue for
                  >> radar, so if anyone knows definitively please let me know.
                  >>
                  >> All of that said, I have not ruled out a radar pole on my boat when
                  > I add
                  >> radar - but I'm leaning toward the mast.
                  >>
                  >> Ed Burke
                  >> Merlin S38MKI (for sale)
                  >> http://home.comcast.net/~svmerlin
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  >> [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kay
                  >> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:18 PM
                  >> To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: [SabreSailboat] Re: Radar Cable
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Why not a radar pole? No splice, no chafing on the jib every time you
                  >> tack. Less weight
                  >> aloft. Much easier to service the scanner when it gets hit by
                  > lightning
                  >> (excuse the
                  >> pessimism, but it's only a matter of time)!!
                  >>
                  >> Jeff Kay
                  >> s/v Luna Blue
                  >> Sabre 386 #274
                  >> Greenwich, CT
                  >>
                  >> --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Hodgman" <chodgmanjr@>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > Ok, next question, getting ready to install my new raymarine radar.
                  >> > Comes with a nice unbroken 15 meter cable. But I may have to
                  > unstep the
                  >> > mast each winter. Raymarine tech support says they "do not
                  > recommend"
                  >> > slicing the cable. But upon reflection I see no good reason for not
                  >> > installing a weathertite junction box a foot or so from the base
                  > of the
                  >> > mast. What have any of you done about this? Any comments or opinions
                  >> > greatly appreciated. Charlie
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  David
                  Atlantea, Sabre 38 MKII
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