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RE: [SabreSailboat] Re: MD7A engine issue

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  • Peter Tollini
    Gib - You can make up a siphon with an outboard squeeze bulb, some clear vinyl hose and a piece of pvc pipe. Or just use a drill pump instead of the bulb-
    Message 1 of 42 , Aug 1, 2007

      Gib –

      You can make up a siphon with an outboard squeeze bulb, some clear vinyl hose and a piece of pvc pipe.  Or just use a drill pump instead of the bulb– it’s quicker and you won’t have to put a fuel can in the cabin and risk a spill there.  ( I used a drill pump on a drill press to transfer 200 gallons of heating oil last  winter) Stick the pipe in the fuel sender hole and suck out fuel from the bottom.  You will see when you get clean fuel. You’ll also get any water in there.  You can use the pipe to do some agitation, then pour a couple gallons of clean fuel back in the empty tank and repeat until you get clean fuel immediately. You’ll get the worst of it and keep sailing this summer. My dock neighbor did that last year with good results.

      Definitely go for the Racor 500.   Get several spare filters, too.

      Pete

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gib Metcalf
      Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:46 PM
      To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: MD7A engine issue

       

      My diesel mechanic recommended I skip the polishing and replace my Racor 200 series filter with a Racor 500 with a 10 micron filter.  He said I'd get better results from the 500 series filter; that the 10 micron option would not clog as rapidly; and that the secondary filter would catch the under 10 micron crud.  He also said that the stuff in my tank was likely preciptates as Pete is noting.

      Any thoughts on my mechanic's advice?   He didn't sound very keen on polishing; not sure if he didn't want to do it or feels it's useless as the crud just builds up again.  I'm inclined to skip the polishing and use John's trick of siphoning the tank and getting the worst of it out myself.  Advice welcome.
      Gib

      Peter Tollini wrote:

      In theory, a good fuel tank cleaner will draw fuel from the tank, run it through filters and return it through a wand at high pressure. The operater uses an inspection port or the sender hole to use the wand to blast the tank bottom with clean fuel.  In theory, eventually the fuel runs clear and the tank is clean, but remember Jim S.'s great quote  - "The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no difference."

      In practice, the polishing operation gets most, but not all of the crud.   Some of the stuff is asphaltines, a tar-like precipitate from diesel.   It is a marvelous binder for other stuff and sticks to aluminum pretty well, too, but always seems to come loose at the worst times. That's the source of most of the gritty black stuff in your filter.  The shiny, gooey, stringy stuff is dead microbes. Believe me, you really don't want to become a connoisseur of fuel filter detritus if you don't have to.  The only way to get the tank really clean is to remove it and have it steam cleaned. Then you can inspect it for corrosion, etc. before you have it cleaned.  Aluminum fuel tanks have a finite life, and many of our boats are there. My 1988 was.  A replacement tank won't break the bank if you order an exact replacement from Sabre's OEM supplier, RDS.  It will if you have one custom fabricated locally. RDS actually has the 20+ year old drawing of our tanks and can whip out an exact duplicate for +/- $300, including new fittings and a new sender.  It beats diesel in the bilge and the corresponding fragrance, too.

      Check the Yahoo files site for a couple of articles on fuel tanks that I posted.

      Pete

      Solace

      S30 Mk III

      West River, MD
       

      On 7/31/07, mt_donahue <mtdonahue@gmail. com> wrote:

      I've been having a similar problem on my mkI 34.

      If there's any real algae/sludge in the tank, replacing the filter
      will be a temporary solution at best.

      It's worth noting that if the issue comes up again, that you'll need
      to run the engine slower, not faster so that the engine isn't starved
      for fuel.

      Even a moderate amount of wave action can stir up the sediment to the
      point where the filter gets clogged.

      Mark



      --- In Sabresailboat@ yahoogroups. com, Gib Metcalf <gibmetcalf@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > I was sailing this weekend (dodging lightning storms off Cape Ann) when
      > I developed a problem with my Volvo MD7A engine. I was cruising at
      > about 2200 rpms when the engine speed would drop down to 1500 and then
      > surge back to 2000 or 2200. This happened repeatedly and more
      > frequently to the point where I had to push the throttle forward to
      keep
      > it from stalling out.
      >
      > I anchored and checked the racor and drained out fuel containing a fine
      > black sediment. I drained fuel until it ran pretty much clear. The
      > engine then ran fine for about 45 minutes at which point it happened
      > again. I anchored for the evening and drained again. More sediment.
      > The next day it happened again. I drained it a third time. This last
      > time I used a needle to see if I could break up any bigger pieces so
      > they could drain out the racor drain petcock. When I restarted the
      > engine, it ran for a minute and stalled out. I could not restart.
      >
      > Any thoughts on what is going on and what I need to do? My fuel
      tank is
      > half full (I always top off for the winter). Is this likely to be
      > clogged filters restricting fuel flow or grit that's gotten to the
      > injectors? Do I need to drain the fuel tank? If so, how does one do
      > that? All advice welcome.
      >
      > On a lighter note, I was ahoyed this morning in Gloucester harbor by
      the
      > ownders of a lovely Tayana 37 who were the previous owners of my boat.
      > Since I'd bought the boat in Chaumont, NY (on Lake Ontario), I was not
      > expecting to see them in NE. They were on their way to Maine. It was
      > great to catch up with another Sabre enthusiast (albeit a former one).
      > They were delighted to see their old boat and I was happy to show her
      > off (engine notwithstanding) . Small world. (I also think I saw John K
      > heading out yesterday as we were passing Bowditch Ledge.)
      >
      > Gib Metcalf
      > Troubadour S28-446
      >


       

    • gmetcalf55
      I ll give em a try. Also JC Whitney as Dave suggested. Thanks. Gib ... bucks any auto fuel pump will work. mine is 1/2 the size of a pack of cigerettes. Try
      Message 42 of 42 , Aug 2, 2007
        I'll give 'em a try. Also JC Whitney as Dave suggested.
        Thanks.
        Gib

        --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, jack horner <captbluwater@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I bought my fuel pump at auto Zone 1 1/2 years ago for like 16.00
        bucks any auto fuel pump will work. mine is 1/2 the size of a pack of
        cigerettes. Try a auto junk yard on line or in person. Good luck with
        the tank..... Jack
        >
        > gmetcalf55 <gibmetcalf@...> wrote:
        You must have bought a fuel pump awhile ago. I stopped at my local
        > parts store today and the cheapest one they had was $65. I'll see if
        > I can find an AutoZone...
        > Thanks.
        > Gib
        >
        > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, jack horner <captbluwater@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes filter funnel like 125.00 at West. After I had gook in my tank I
        > had it polished and a guy did a brushing inside ie and i bought the
        > best stuff to never go thru that again. A live and learn thing... jack
        > >
        > > Gib Metcalf <gibmetcalf@> wrote:
        > what's a bahiafilter? Is this a fuel filter funnel ?
        > > Gib
        > >
        > > jack horner wrote:
        > > Gib, I bought a auto fuel pump at Auto Zone $16.00 mounted it
        > on a board some 3 ft fuel hose each end and a switch and a cigerette
        > lighter plug. I put one end in my the tank and the other in my
        > bahiafilter sitting in the fuel intake . I circulate and filter the
        > fuel over and over 3-4 time a hour. You should see the crap ! All for
        > 20 bucks. yeah auto fuel pumps are small and 12 volt ! I also use it
        > to do a transfer from the fuel cans when i cruise to the tank any time
        > day or nite with no fuel spill at all. ! Good luck Jack/ fla
        > >
        > > Gib Metcalf <gib@> wrote:
        > > Pete,
        > > I was thinking along similar lines using my oil change pump
        > (it's one of those suction jobbers that holds about a gallon). I'm
        > going to measure the space to see if I can fit a Racor 500 in there.
        > But first thing to do is change the filters on my existing setup so I
        > can get back to sailing. Thanks for the suggestions.
        > > Gib
        > >
        > > Peter Tollini wrote:
        > >
        > > Gib –
        > > You can make up a siphon with an outboard squeeze bulb, some
        > clear vinyl hose and a piece of pvc pipe. Or just use a drill pump
        > instead of the bulb– it's quicker and you won't have to put a fuel can
        > in the cabin and risk a spill there. ( I used a drill pump on a drill
        > press to transfer 200 gallons of heating oil last winter) Stick the
        > pipe in the fuel sender hole and suck out fuel from the bottom. You
        > will see when you get clean fuel. You'll also get any water in there.
        > You can use the pipe to do some agitation, then pour a couple gallons
        > of clean fuel back in the empty tank and repeat until you get clean
        > fuel immediately. You'll get the worst of it and keep sailing this
        > summer. My dock neighbor did that last year with good results.
        > > Definitely go for the Racor 500. Get several spare filters,
        > too.
        > > Pete
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gib Metcalf
        > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:46 PM
        > > To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Re: MD7A engine issue
        > >
        > > My diesel mechanic recommended I skip
        > the polishing and replace my Racor 200 series filter with a Racor 500
        > with a 10 micron filter. He said I'd get better results from the 500
        > series filter; that the 10 micron option would not clog as rapidly;
        > and that the secondary filter would catch the under 10 micron crud.
        > He also said that the stuff in my tank was likely preciptates as Pete
        > is noting.
        > >
        > > Any thoughts on my mechanic's advice? He didn't sound very keen
        > on polishing; not sure if he didn't want to do it or feels it's
        > useless as the crud just builds up again. I'm inclined to skip the
        > polishing and use John's trick of siphoning the tank and getting the
        > worst of it out myself. Advice welcome.
        > > Gib
        > >
        > > Peter Tollini wrote:
        > > In theory, a good fuel tank
        > cleaner will draw fuel from the tank, run it through filters and
        > return it through a wand at high pressure. The operater uses an
        > inspection port or the sender hole to use the wand to blast the tank
        > bottom with clean fuel. In theory, eventually the fuel runs clear and
        > the tank is clean, but remember Jim S.'s great quote - "The
        > difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no
        > difference."
        > >
        > > In practice, the polishing operation gets most,
        > but not all of the crud. Some of the stuff is asphaltines, a
        > tar-like precipitate from diesel. It is a marvelous binder for other
        > stuff and sticks to aluminum pretty well, too, but always seems to
        > come loose at the worst times. That's the source of most of the gritty
        > black stuff in your filter. The shiny, gooey, stringy stuff is dead
        > microbes. Believe me, you really don't want to become a connoisseur of
        > fuel filter detritus if you don't have to. The only way to get the
        > tank really clean is to remove it and have it steam cleaned. Then you
        > can inspect it for corrosion, etc. before you have it cleaned.
        > Aluminum fuel tanks have a finite life, and many of our boats are
        > there. My 1988 was. A replacement tank won't break the bank if you
        > order an exact replacement from Sabre's OEM supplier, RDS. It will if
        > you have one custom fabricated locally. RDS actually has the 20+ year
        > old drawing of our tanks and can
        > > whip out an exact duplicate for +/- $300, including new fittings
        > and a new sender. It beats diesel in the bilge and the corresponding
        > fragrance, too.
        > >
        > > Check the Yahoo files site for a couple of
        > articles on fuel tanks that I posted.
        > >
        > > Pete
        > >
        > > Solace
        > >
        > > S30 Mk III
        > >
        > > West River, MD
        > >
        > >
        > > On 7/31/07, mt_donahue <mtdonahue@> wrote:
        > > I've been having a
        > similar problem on my mkI 34.
        > >
        > > If there's any real algae/sludge in the tank, replacing the filter
        > > will be a temporary solution at best.
        > >
        > > It's worth noting that if the issue comes up again, that you'll
        need
        > > to run the engine slower, not faster so that the engine isn't
        starved
        > > for fuel.
        > >
        > > Even a moderate amount of wave action can stir up the sediment
        to the
        > > point where the filter gets clogged.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Gib Metcalf
        > <gibmetcalf@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I was sailing this weekend (dodging lightning storms off
        > Cape Ann) when
        > > > I developed a problem with my Volvo MD7A engine. I was
        > cruising at
        > > > about 2200 rpms when the engine speed would drop down to
        > 1500 and then
        > > > surge back to 2000 or 2200. This happened repeatedly and
        > more
        > > > frequently to the point where I had to push the throttle
        > forward to
        > > keep
        > > > it from stalling out.
        > > >
        > > > I anchored and checked the racor and drained out fuel
        > containing a fine
        > > > black sediment. I drained fuel until it ran pretty much
        > clear. The
        > > > engine then ran fine for about 45 minutes at which point
        > it happened
        > > > again. I anchored for the evening and drained again. More
        > sediment.
        > > > The next day it happened again. I drained it a third
        > time. This last
        > > > time I used a needle to see if I could break up any
        > bigger pieces so
        > > > they could drain out the racor drain petcock. When I
        > restarted the
        > > > engine, it ran for a minute and stalled out. I could not
        > restart.
        > > >
        > > > Any thoughts on what is going on and what I need to do?
        > My fuel
        > > tank is
        > > > half full (I always top off for the winter). Is this
        > likely to be
        > > > clogged filters restricting fuel flow or grit that's
        > gotten to the
        > > > injectors? Do I need to drain the fuel tank? If so, how
        > does one do
        > > > that? All advice welcome.
        > > >
        > > > On a lighter note, I was ahoyed this morning in
        > Gloucester harbor by
        > > the
        > > > ownders of a lovely Tayana 37 who were the previous
        > owners of my boat.
        > > > Since I'd bought the boat in Chaumont, NY (on Lake
        > Ontario), I was not
        > > > expecting to see them in NE. They were on their way to
        > Maine. It was
        > > > great to catch up with another Sabre enthusiast (albeit a
        > former one).
        > > > They were delighted to see their old boat and I was happy
        > to show her
        > > > off (engine notwithstanding). Small world. (I also think
        > I saw John K
        > > > heading out yesterday as we were passing Bowditch Ledge.)
        > > >
        > > > Gib Metcalf
        > > > Troubadour S28-446
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
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