Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup

Expand Messages
  • Peter Tollini
    I have a John Mecray print of the J-Class Ranger driving to windward in my office. Now those were the AC days.... Since we ll never get them back, except in
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 3, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I have a John Mecray print of the J-Class Ranger driving to windward in my office. Now those were the AC days....
      Since we'll never get them back, except in exhibition matches between Shamrock and Endeavor, I was curious if others had the same mixed feelings.  The racing in this year's defense was as good as I've seen.   Just about every race was up for grabs to the final leg, but it's got sort of a Formula 1 atmosphere. Not necessarily bad, but it's still not like the national teams on 12 Metres, you know, the America's Cup.  I think that peaked after Team Dennis and Stars & Stripes went to Perth and took back the Cup.
      Pete

       
      On 7/3/07, Jim Starkey <jas@...> wrote:

      Grant Woodside wrote:
      > I know an English sailor who used to sail in the AC a long time ago. He
      > says back then it was national and was more interesting because of the
      > national pride.
      >
      > In my office, we have a Brit, Chinese, Russian, ... A natonal race
      > would be more interesting. You'll notice the Chinese came in last
      > place, but they had an all Chinese team and national pride.
      >
      > The English sailor also said in the old days the challenger had to sail
      > across the "pond" to participate. Boats today can't do that.
      >
      >

      Only the challenger had to sail across the pond. That made the
      defender's job a lot easier.

      --
      James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
      MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com
      Office: 978 526-1376


    • john kalinowski
      Perth was the best because of the conditions. This could be done in Spain. Just raise the limit before the race is a cancelled. Some of those storm days
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 3, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Perth was the best because of the conditions.
        This could be done in Spain. Just raise the limit before the race is a cancelled.  Some of those storm days reminded me of Perth with spray going over the deck, the bilge pumps constantly emptying the hull.
         
        It is a fact NZ would have put the national rule back into place.  They have been picked clean.  With the costs of campaigning what they are, not being able to buy some experience would keep many other countries away. Would you pony up $120,000,000 knowing you were going to get you butt kicked??
         
        I just wished they had a rule to complete, you had to already have an approved plan for the venue if you were going to move it.  The constant delays as cities try to build out infrastructure makes interest wane IMHO.

        Peter Tollini <pete@...> wrote:
        I have a John Mecray print of the J-Class Ranger driving to windward in my office. Now those were the AC days....
        Since we'll never get them back, except in exhibition matches between Shamrock and Endeavor, I was curious if others had the same mixed feelings.  The racing in this year's defense was as good as I've seen.   Just about every race was up for grabs to the final leg, but it's got sort of a Formula 1 atmosphere. Not necessarily bad, but it's still not like the national teams on 12 Metres, you know, the America's Cup.  I think that peaked after Team Dennis and Stars & Stripes went to Perth and took back the Cup.
        Pete

         
        On 7/3/07, Jim Starkey <jas@netfrastructure .com> wrote:
        Grant Woodside wrote:
        > I know an English sailor who used to sail in the AC a long time ago. He
        > says back then it was national and was more interesting because of the
        > national pride.
        >
        > In my office, we have a Brit, Chinese, Russian, ... A natonal race
        > would be more interesting. You'll notice the Chinese came in last
        > place, but they had an all Chinese team and national pride.
        >
        > The English sailor also said in the old days the challenger had to sail
        > across the "pond" to participate. Boats today can't do that.
        >
        >

        Only the challenger had to sail across the pond. That made the
        defender's job a lot easier.

        --
        James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
        MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com
        Office: 978 526-1376




        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

      • David Felsenthal
        I enjoyed the racing this year more than most, as it was indeed not a blow out. I have very mixed feelings about the nationalism that can be involved. On the
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 3, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I enjoyed the racing this year more than most, as it was indeed not a
          blow out.

          I have very mixed feelings about the nationalism that can be involved.
          On the one hand, it's fun to compete against the "other," on the other
          hand, in this day of truly global suppliers it's hard to know where to
          draw the line.

          Do it like the Olympics where you go by the passport the crew hold? Do
          it where the boat has to be documented in the nation represented? The
          hull and sails have to me built in the country? What about other
          international pro sport competitions, such as soccer other than the
          world cup?

          Different people draw these lines in different place. Right now, the
          lines are very soft.

          Fun to watch at any rate, and there is some trickle down, plus I know
          some nice families that have had LOTS of time in Valencia for this,
          elementary school kids and all.

          David


          Peter Tollini wrote:
          > I have a John Mecray print of the J-Class Ranger driving to windward in
          > my office. Now those were the AC days....
          > Since we'll never get them back, except in exhibition matches between
          > Shamrock and Endeavor, I was curious if others had the same mixed
          > feelings. The racing in this year's defense was as good as I've seen.
          > Just about every race was up for grabs to the final leg, but it's got
          > sort of a Formula 1 atmosphere. Not necessarily bad, but it's still not
          > like the national teams on 12 Metres, you know, the America's Cup. I
          > think that peaked after Team Dennis and Stars & Stripes went to Perth
          > and took back the Cup.
          > Pete
          >
          >
          > On 7/3/07, *Jim Starkey* <jas@...
          > <mailto:jas@...>> wrote:
          >
          > Grant Woodside wrote:
          > > I know an English sailor who used to sail in the AC a long time
          > ago. He
          > > says back then it was national and was more interesting because of the
          > > national pride.
          > >
          > > In my office, we have a Brit, Chinese, Russian, ... A natonal race
          > > would be more interesting. You'll notice the Chinese came in last
          > > place, but they had an all Chinese team and national pride.
          > >
          > > The English sailor also said in the old days the challenger had to
          > sail
          > > across the "pond" to participate. Boats today can't do that.
          > >
          > >
          >
          > Only the challenger had to sail across the pond. That made the
          > defender's job a lot easier.
          >
          > --
          > James Starkey, Senior Software Architect
          > MySQL Inc., Manchester, MA, USA, www.mysql.com <http://www.mysql.com/>
          > Office: 978 526-1376
          >
          >
          >

          --
          David
          Atlantea, Sabre 38 MKII
        • Joe
          Had to share this video from sailing anarchy http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk Amazing! I don t know what s more impressive,
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

            Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

            joe
          • Allison Lehman
            I have seen the foiling while I was out sailing during the week. It is breathtaking! TNZ and Lunna Rossa also foil but Artemis doesn t. Allison
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I have seen the "foiling" while I was out sailing during the week.  It is breathtaking! TNZ and Lunna Rossa also foil but Artemis doesn't.

              Allison






              On Mar 21, 2013, at 6:49 AM, Joe wrote:

               

              Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

              Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

              joe


            • Carter Brey
              Bloody hell, that s incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                 

                Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                joe

              • Dave Evans
                Is this where it s headed? Not just hanging on one ama, but foils? That should make its way into cruising in short order. Amazing, but....
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Is this where it's headed? Not just hanging on one ama, but foils? That should make its way into cruising in short order. Amazing, but....


                  On 3/21/2013 9:49 AM, Joe wrote:
                   

                  Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                  Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                  joe

                  __._,_.__

                • Allison Lehman
                  Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders) but it sure looks freaky
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders)  but it sure looks freaky to me!

                    Allison





                    On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Carter Brey wrote:

                     

                    Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                    On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                     

                    Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                    Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                    joe



                  • Jim Starkey
                    What nonsense! They ve already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat. The crew doesn t wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      What nonsense!  They've already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat.  The crew doesn't wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for nothing.

                      Oh, well.  The world's economy does need someway to recycled Larry Ellison's money.  But I do miss the 12s.

                      On 3/21/13 11:30 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
                       

                      Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders)  but it sure looks freaky to me!


                      Allison





                      On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Carter Brey wrote:

                       

                      Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                      On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                       

                      Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                      Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                      joe




                    • Allison Lehman
                      Not sure if the first boat foiled. It came out to practice in the fall (traditionally lighter breeze in SF Bay). What I do know is it wasn t foiling when it
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Not sure if the first boat foiled.  It came out to practice  in the fall (traditionally lighter breeze in SF Bay). What I do know is it wasn't foiling when it pitchpoled.  They were falling off into a reach with a wicked ebb tide and 20+ knots of breeze. As they started reaching, they exceeded wind speed, both hulls were in the water and thats when the leeward bow dug in and they pitchpoled. 

                        Some camps called the incident a publicity stunt, but what they all agree on is nobody figured how hard it would be to right the boat.  That is why it got swept out the gate and it took forever to get it back upright.  In the process much of the wing broke up.

                        Allison








                        On Mar 21, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Jim Starkey wrote:

                         

                        What nonsense!  They've already pitchpoled once and pretty much destroyed the boat.  The crew doesn't wear helmets and carry underwater breathing apparatus for nothing.

                        Oh, well.  The world's economy does need someway to recycled Larry Ellison's money.  But I do miss the 12s.

                        On 3/21/13 11:30 AM, Allison Lehman wrote:
                         

                        Spithill and Coutts said this was actually more stable and less likely to pitchpole as it has a 3 point balance (foil plus 2 rudders)  but it sure looks freaky to me!


                        Allison





                        On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Carter Brey wrote:

                         

                        Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                        On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                         

                        Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                        Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                        joe






                      • Charles Sidwa
                        http://www.windrider.com/windrider_rave.aspx For the common man, with great courage! I use to have a WR17, great
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                           
                          For the common man, with great courage!  I use to have a WR17, great fun boat, still would like a Rave.  Charlie
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:28 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup

                           

                          Is this where it's headed? Not just hanging on one ama, but foils? That should make its way into cruising in short order. Amazing, but....


                          On 3/21/2013 9:49 AM, Joe wrote:
                           

                          Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                          Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                          joe

                          __._,_.__

                        • john kalinowski
                          Got that straight Carter Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Got that straight Carter

                            Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.
                            Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which can be slow motion, Pitch poles you go from x mph to zero and and are 
                            launched into the water which feels more like concrete.

                            The speeds these puppies move make this even worse.
                            The bows are all wrong for positive flotation needed to stop pitch poles.

                            I wish they had stayed with the 45 footers.  I just pray something does not happen near the course edges where the competitors could lose control and fly into the spectators.


                            --- On Thu, 3/21/13, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:

                            From: Carter Brey <carter.brey@...>
                            Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup
                            To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

                             

                            Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                            On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                             

                            Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                            Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                            joe

                          • Dave Lochner
                            Our sport certainly needs some excitement to draw in a younger crowd, but, John s right we don t need NASCAR crashes into the stands. Dave
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 21, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Our sport certainly needs some excitement to draw in a younger crowd, but, John's right we don't need NASCAR crashes into the stands.

                              Dave

                              On Mar 21, 2013, at 2:00 PM, john kalinowski wrote:

                               

                              Got that straight Carter

                              Before doing monohulls, I raced cats up and down the East coast for 15 years.
                              Pitch poles are violent.  Unlike flipping a cat which can be slow motion, Pitch poles you go from x mph to zero and and are 
                              launched into the water which feels more like concrete.

                              The speeds these puppies move make this even worse.
                              The bows are all wrong for positive flotation needed to stop pitch poles.

                              I wish they had stayed with the 45 footers.  I just pray something does not happen near the course edges where the competitors could lose control and fly into the spectators.


                              --- On Thu, 3/21/13, Carter Brey <carter.brey@...> wrote:

                              From: Carter Brey <carter.brey@...>
                              Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] America's Cup
                              To: Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

                               

                              Bloody hell, that's incredible. I would be petrified of pitchpoling if those negative-rake bows dug in too soon on the way back down.

                              On Mar 21, 2013 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:
                               

                              Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                              Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                              joe


                            • mookiesurfs
                              That is a beautiful spectacle! The why who what where or trickle down are not important, a spectacle is a thing to behold. One of the nice things about money
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 22, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                That is a beautiful spectacle! The why who what where or trickle down are not important, a spectacle is a thing to behold. One of the nice things about money is that if it's yours, you get to do what you want with it. 
                                Bill B

                                Sent from an elegant interface with limited functionality, while traveling 

                                On Mar 21, 2013, at 9:49 AM, "Joe" <cbr_deuce@...> wrote:

                                 

                                Had to share this video from sailing anarchy

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6dnOlE9sjk

                                Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the 40 plus knots or the 7 tons.

                                joe

                              • Jim Starkey
                                From NYTimes: “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 9, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  From NYTimes:


                                  “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”

                                  Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.



                                • josrulz_2001
                                  From The Telegraph: Olympic sailing champion Andrew Bart Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36. He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 10, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    From The Telegraph: "Olympic sailing champion Andrew 'Bart' Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36." He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star class in both 2008 and 2012.

                                    What a bummer.

                                    I'm not going to condemn the AC72--I don't know enough about the design to do that, and I'm not a yacht designer anyway. And I can't speak for anyone else by myself, so I'll say it this way. While I want to watch an America's Cup that is exhilarating, I don't really want to watch one where there's a good chance people might die. And my sense is that other people might feel the same way, though I don't know for sure. Yes, I know sailboat racing can always be dangerous, but I think we're at another level here.

                                    There's been a lot of talk about the Cup and how monohulls might be more fun to watch (tacking duels, etc.). But that's not my point one way or the other. I just think they need to get these boats figured out and quick--watching people die in sailing competition isn't really what I'm into.

                                    -Jim
                                    1984 Sabre 34, #207


                                    --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > From NYTimes:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”
                                    >
                                    > Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.
                                    >
                                  • Allison Lehman
                                    This is a very sad event. FYI this is not the first time an America s Cup sailor has died during training. the last time was in 1999. A Spanish sailor died.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 10, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      This is a very sad event.

                                      FYI this is not the first time an America's Cup sailor has died during training.  the last time was in 1999.  A Spanish sailor died.  As of late the AC designs have been so "bleeding edge" to squeeze every last drop of speed out of them, IMHO this is the culprit.  Not the particular design, but the edict for the design. 

                                      Just my opinion.

                                      Allison




                                      On May 10, 2013, at 6:48 AM, josrulz_2001 <josrulz_2001@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      From The Telegraph: "Olympic sailing champion Andrew 'Bart' Simpson killed in sailing accident aged 36." He had a wife and family and had won gold in the Star class in both 2008 and 2012.

                                      What a bummer.

                                      I'm not going to condemn the AC72--I don't know enough about the design to do that, and I'm not a yacht designer anyway. And I can't speak for anyone else by myself, so I'll say it this way. While I want to watch an America's Cup that is exhilarating, I don't really want to watch one where there's a good chance people might die. And my sense is that other people might feel the same way, though I don't know for sure. Yes, I know sailboat racing can always be dangerous, but I think we're at another level here.

                                      There's been a lot of talk about the Cup and how monohulls might be more fun to watch (tacking duels, etc.). But that's not my point one way or the other. I just think they need to get these boats figured out and quick--watching people die in sailing competition isn't really what I'm into.

                                      -Jim
                                      1984 Sabre 34, #207

                                      --- In Sabresailboat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From NYTimes:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > “The foiling 45 has been a great way to get the guys out foiling and understanding some of the intricacies of that that are more or less scalable up to the 72,” Cayard said. “So we’re coming from a place where we are in a pretty deep hole, and we’re seeing a few positive signs and so we’re right now currently in a pretty optimistic mode.”
                                      >
                                      > Less than 24 hours after that interview, a young, talented sailor was dead, and Artemis’s first AC72 was upside down and floating in San Francisco Bay, awaiting a salvage crew.
                                      >


                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.