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Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing

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  • Jim Sudduth
    From two different perspectives:   First from a quality perspective I think that the most important things we need to control is our fermentation temp.  I
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
      From two different perspectives:
       
      First from a quality perspective I think that the most important things we need to control is our fermentation temp.  I now have two fermentation "chambers".  One made from a small fridge perfect for five gallon batches, and a new one made from a small chest freezer where I can do ten+ gallons.  I was at an event recently where it was quite clear how important fermentation temp control is.  It should be one of the first upgrades a new brewer strives for.
       
      From a process standpoint, My favorite tool/gadget is my Electric Hot Liquor Tank.  I have it set up with a timer and a temperature controller.  I can set it up the day before brew day to turn on early before I get up or get home from work so that I can mash in right at the start of my brew session.  This saves me about an hour since I don't have to heat my water in the beginning.  The more I can shorten my brew day, the more often I can find the time to brew.
       
      Next, can you say "Spunding Valve"?.......
       
      Jim Sudduth
      From: Victor Gonzales <vicgonzales@...>
      To: "SODZ@yahoogroups com" <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>; "spagio@..." <spagio@...>
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
       

      Not sure i agree.
      1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
      2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
      Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
      Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
      Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
      From: John Riley ;
      To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com ;
      Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
       
      Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
      1 - Pitching ASAP
      2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
      A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
      The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
      The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
      I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
      Just my thoughts...
      From: dan.france
      To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
      Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
       
      I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
      1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
      2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
      For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
      Any other folks have thoughts??????

    • Tim Nalley
      Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
        Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge effects on the finished product.
        As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in the process: mash, boil, pitch.
        Tim



        ------------------------------
        On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:

        >
        >Not sure i agree.
        >
        >1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
        >2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
        >
        >Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
        >Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
        >
        >Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
        >
        >From: John Riley <spagio@...>;
        >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>;
        >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
        >Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
        >

        >
        >Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
        >
        >1 - Pitching ASAP
        >
        >2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
        >
        >A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
        >
        >The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
        >
        >The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
        >
        >I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
        >
        >Just my thoughts...
        >
        >From: dan.france <dan.france@...>
        >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
        >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
        >

        >
        >I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
        >
        >1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
        >
        >2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
        >
        >For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
        >
        >Any other folks have thoughts??????
        >
        >
        >
      • Mike Byrne
        +1 on temp control, i know its been said but its important. 1.) Setting up fermentation temperature control changed my brewing forever! I believe that this
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2012
          +1 on temp control, i know its been said but its important.

          1.) Setting up fermentation temperature control changed my brewing forever!  I believe that this made the biggest and the quickest impact on my brewing.  

          2.) I took Frank's advise and I currently use an old fridge and wrap each carboy with a ferm wrap or a heating pad.  I use a Ranco controller for each carboy, to make sure each beer is at the proper temperature.  I have used freezer in the past, but its tough to lift the carboy into them, and the condensors burn out quickly if you use them for cooling.



          Mike B

        • Matt Milholen
          Fermentation temp control for sure. Once I started using a chest freezer and Johnson temp controller, I noticed a significant improvement in my beers. I
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
            Fermentation temp control for sure.  Once I started using a chest freezer and Johnson temp controller, I noticed a significant improvement in my beers.  I totally agree with Dan that you should pitch cold and let the wort slowly warm to your target ferment temp.  Lately I've been pitching at around
            59F and shooting for a ferment temp of no more than 64F.  This has resulted in the best beer I've ever made.  I actually don't think the recipe is as important and temp control and process control.

            In order of importance:

            1. Pitching temp/ ferment temp 
            2. Healthy huge yeast starter
            3. Sanitation
            4. Ingredients (inc water quality)
            5. Mash control
            6. Oxygenation prior to pitching
            7. Fining (not necessary)

            Mash control may be even more important than ingredients.  10 people can all brew the same recipe and you'll get 10 different beers due to differences in the above list.  


            Sent from my iPhone

            On Sep 30, 2012, at 11:20 AM, "dan.france" <dan.france@...> wrote:

             

            I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.

            1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).

            2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?

            For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.

            Any other folks have thoughts??????

          • Matt Titus
            I m going to take this another direction. The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I ve gained through online forums and SODZ. The knowledge
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012

              I'm going to take this another direction.

              The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I've gained through online forums and SODZ.  The knowledge is the key for me to brewing better beer.  You could have the fanciest equipment, and best ingredients, but without the knowledge your beer will fail.

              In continuing with this theme my favorite tool is my curiosity. I constantly keep going back and researching what I think I already know how to do.  What I find is that some things I assume I am doing correctly, there are pieces I am missing.  Even this discussion on temperature control has given me a new way to do my temp control.  I have never done the cool down and warm up method, but can't wait to try.

              On Oct 1, 2012 2:40 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
               


              Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge effects on the finished product.
              As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in the process: mash, boil, pitch.
              Tim

              ------------------------------
              On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:

              >
              >Not sure i agree.
              >
              >1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
              >2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
              >
              >Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
              >Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
              >
              >Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
              >
              >From: John Riley <spagio@...>;
              >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>;
              >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
              >Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
              >

              >
              >Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
              >
              >1 - Pitching ASAP
              >
              >2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
              >
              >A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
              >
              >The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
              >
              >The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
              >
              >I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
              >
              >Just my thoughts...
              >
              >From: dan.france <dan.france@...>
              >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
              >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
              >

              >
              >I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
              >
              >1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
              >
              >2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
              >
              >For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
              >
              >Any other folks have thoughts??????
              >
              >
              >

            • Don Henderson
              On the lighter side! I think the most impacting is… Three pints of homebrew prior to setting up your equipment, another two pints after you light the
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
                On the lighter side!
                I think the most impacting is… Three pints of homebrew prior to setting up your equipment, another two pints after you light the burners. Then sitting down at mashing-in not realizing the automatic timer has gone off putting the fire out 15 min. ago. After you re-light the burner, start the timer, stir the mash, you then become hungry.  So you get something to eat and of course another pint.  Now what should have been a two hour process has taken you three and half.
                By now you have switched to your cooking kettle and ready to add your first hops, watching carefully to make sure there’s no boil over, but the steam keeps fogging your glasses. Satisfied with the first addition of hops you sit and wait for thirty minutes for the next addition.  Of course by now you are feeling no pain and pretty sure of your brewing abilities. You then add the next addition of hops, give it a quick stir, grab a chair to take a seat, but then you look-up to see what appears to be a mushroom cloud coming out of the brew kettle.
                Cleaning up the mess you realize you’ve lost all sense of time. Trying desperately to recalculate but your thinking is so foggy, you throw your hands up in surrender and pour yourself another pint. Now fast forward; a few days after you force carbonate your beer, you take the first sip and now you’re really mad.  Not because you forgot something in the process or added too much of something else, it’s because you realize after all that, this is the best beer you have ever made and you can’t remember how you did it.

                From: Matt Titus <mtitus6@...>
                To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:53 AM
                Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing

                 
                I'm going to take this another direction.
                The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I've gained through online forums and SODZ.  The knowledge is the key for me to brewing better beer.  You could have the fanciest equipment, and best ingredients, but without the knowledge your beer will fail.
                In continuing with this theme my favorite tool is my curiosity. I constantly keep going back and researching what I think I already know how to do.  What I find is that some things I assume I am doing correctly, there are pieces I am missing.  Even this discussion on temperature control has given me a new way to do my temp control.  I have never done the cool down and warm up method, but can't wait to try.
                On Oct 1, 2012 2:40 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
                 

                Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge effects on the finished product.
                As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in the process: mash, boil, pitch.
                Tim

                ------------------------------
                On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:

                >
                >Not sure i agree.
                >
                >1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
                >2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
                >
                >Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
                >Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
                >
                >Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                >
                >From: John Riley <mailto:spagio%40yahoo.com>;
                >To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com>;
                >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                >Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
                >

                >
                >Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
                >
                >1 - Pitching ASAP
                >
                >2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
                >
                >A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
                >
                >The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
                >
                >The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
                >
                >I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
                >
                >Just my thoughts...
                >
                >From: dan.france <mailto:dan.france%40yahoo.com>
                >To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
                >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                >

                >
                >I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
                >
                >1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
                >
                >2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
                >
                >For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
                >
                >Any other folks have thoughts??????
                >
                >
                >



              • Tim Nalley
                I agree. I lurk this group for techniques, tips and vicarious experience. I lurk other sites for the same for my historical paleo brewing pursuits. A guy on
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
                  I agree. I lurk this group for techniques, tips and vicarious experience. I lurk other sites for the same for my historical \ paleo brewing pursuits. A guy on yet another does what he calls "Marine brewing", trully brewing from scratch. Its all beer, more or less, and each is quite challenging and insightful, but you guys are definitely the top end masters, IMHO.

                  Have you guys done much R and D in young beer or brew n serve? Not those kits. All grain.
                  Cheers,
                  Tim


                  ------------------------------
                  On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 7:53 AM EDT Matt Titus wrote:

                  >I'm going to take this another direction.
                  >
                  >The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I've gained
                  >through online forums and SODZ. The knowledge is the key for me to brewing
                  >better beer. You could have the fanciest equipment, and best ingredients,
                  >but without the knowledge your beer will fail.
                  >
                  >In continuing with this theme my favorite tool is my curiosity. I
                  >constantly keep going back and researching what I think I already know how
                  >to do. What I find is that some things I assume I am doing correctly,
                  >there are pieces I am missing. Even this discussion on temperature control
                  >has given me a new way to do my temp control. I have never done the cool
                  >down and warm up method, but can't wait to try.
                  > On Oct 1, 2012 2:40 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary
                  >> baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables
                  >> AND huge effects on the finished product.
                  >> As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp
                  >> gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in
                  >> the process: mash, boil, pitch.
                  >> Tim
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------
                  >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >
                  >> >Not sure i agree.
                  >> >
                  >> >1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above
                  >> fermentation temps.
                  >> >2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow
                  >> inline aeration my gadget)
                  >> >
                  >> >Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow
                  >> and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only
                  >> chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
                  >> >Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't
                  >> have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of
                  >> healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by
                  >> products in your beer if you pitch warm.
                  >> >
                  >> >Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                  >> >
                  >> >From: John Riley <spagio@...>;
                  >> >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>;
                  >> >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                  >> >Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >Overnight? Ouch! For me it's
                  >> >
                  >> >1 - Pitching ASAP
                  >> >
                  >> >2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
                  >> >
                  >> >A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat
                  >> between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case. The other bonus
                  >> you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is
                  >> circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the
                  >> water passes through the coil. This circulation also speeds the cooling.
                  >> >
                  >> >The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below
                  >> boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by
                  >> getting it into a closed system rapidly. The other benefit you get with
                  >> cooling fast is a clearer final product.
                  >> >
                  >> >The flow in the coil should not be fast either. Ten gallons can be
                  >> cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp
                  >> and your pitching temp. The few gallons you use to cool the wort is
                  >> cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method. I dont
                  >> see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is
                  >> working for me now.
                  >> >
                  >> >I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial. If the temp is
                  >> on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate,
                  >> you will be OK. Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
                  >> >
                  >> >Just my thoughts...
                  >> >
                  >> >From: dan.france <dan.france@...>
                  >> >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
                  >> >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
                  >> >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am
                  >> always interested to hear their replies.
                  >> >
                  >> >1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than
                  >> sanitation).
                  >> >
                  >> >2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
                  >> >
                  >> >For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of
                  >> 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature
                  >> where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge
                  >> with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to
                  >> control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will
                  >> go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my
                  >> desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
                  >> >
                  >> >Any other folks have thoughts??????
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                • Tim Nalley
                  LOL! Many times! How about this scenerio? You return from vacation, broke but wanting to brew, so you use all the odds and sods leftover grains and hops that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
                    LOL! Many times! How about this scenerio? You return from vacation, broke but wanting to brew, so you use all the odds and sods leftover grains and hops that season's batches to do a frankenstein brew? That was me 4 saturdays ago! I'm calling it a black rye IPA, of the Odds n Sods school.
                    Anyone else?
                    Cheers,
                    Tim


                    ------------------------------
                    On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 10:04 AM EDT feder_jason@... wrote:

                    >I know that game.
                    >
                    >Sent from my HTC One™ S on T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network.
                    >
                    >----- Reply message -----
                    >From: "Don Henderson" <don.century21@...>
                    >To: "SODZ@yahoogroups.com" <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                    >Date: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 9:59 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >On the lighter side!
                    >I think the most impacting is… Three pints of homebrew prior
                    >to setting up your equipment, another two pints after you light the burners.
                    >Then sitting down at mashing-in not realizing the automatic timer has gone off putting
                    >the fire out 15 min. ago. After you re-light the burner, start the timer, stir
                    >the mash, you then become hungry.  So you get something to eat and of
                    >course another pint.  Now what should have been a two hour process has
                    >taken you three and half.
                    >By now you have switched to your cooking kettle and ready to add your first hops, watching
                    >carefully to make sure there’s no boil over, but the steam keeps fogging your
                    >glasses. Satisfied with the first addition of hops you sit and wait for thirty
                    >minutes for the next addition.  Of course by now you are feeling no pain and pretty sure of
                    >your brewing abilities. You then add the next addition of hops, give it a quick
                    >stir, grab a chair to take a
                    >seat, but then you look-up to see what appears to be a mushroom cloud coming
                    >out of the brew kettle.
                    >Cleaning up the mess you realize you’ve lost all sense of time. Trying
                    >desperately to recalculate but your thinking is so foggy, you throw your hands up in surrender and pour yourself another pint. Now fast forward;
                    >a few days after you force carbonate your beer, you take the first sip and now you’re really mad.  Not because
                    >you forgot something in the process or added too much of something else, it’s
                    >because you realize after all that, this is the best beer you have ever made
                    >and you can’t remember how you did it.
                    >
                    >
                    >________________________________
                    > From: Matt Titus <mtitus6@...>
                    >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:53 AM
                    >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    >I'm going to take this another direction.
                    >The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I've gained through online forums and SODZ.  The knowledge is the key for me to brewing better beer.  You could have the fanciest equipment, and best ingredients, but without the knowledge your beer will fail.
                    >In continuing with this theme my favorite tool is my curiosity. I constantly keep going back and researching what I think I already know how to do.  What I find is that some things I assume I am doing correctly, there are pieces I am missing.  Even this discussion on temperature control has given me a new way to do my temp control.  I have never done the cool down and warm up method, but can't wait to try.
                    >
                    >On Oct 1, 2012 2:40 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >> 
                    >>
                    >>Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge effects on the finished product.
                    >>As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in the process: mash, boil, pitch.
                    >>Tim
                    >>
                    >>------------------------------
                    >>On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>Not sure i agree.
                    >>
                    >>1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
                    >>2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
                    >>
                    >>Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
                    >>Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
                    >>
                    >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                    >>
                    >>From: John Riley <mailto:spagio%40yahoo.com>;
                    >>To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com>;
                    >>Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                    >>Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
                    >>
                    >> 
                    >>
                    >>Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
                    >>
                    >>1 - Pitching ASAP
                    >>
                    >>2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
                    >>
                    >>A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
                    >>
                    >>The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
                    >>
                    >>The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
                    >>
                    >>I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
                    >>
                    >>Just my thoughts...
                    >>
                    >>From: dan.france <mailto:dan.france%40yahoo.com>
                    >>To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com
                    >>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
                    >>Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                    >>
                    >> 
                    >>
                    >>I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
                    >>
                    >>1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
                    >>
                    >>2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
                    >>
                    >>For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
                    >>
                    >>Any other folks have thoughts??????
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                  • thespiderwrangler
                    Yup, I ve got a frankebrew finished up in the carboy I have to get taken care of...
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2012
                      Yup, I've got a frankebrew finished up in the carboy I have to get taken care of...

                      --- In SODZ@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > LOL! Many times! How about this scenerio? You return from vacation, broke but wanting to brew, so you use all the odds and sods leftover grains and hops that season's batches to do a frankenstein brew? That was me 4 saturdays ago! I'm calling it a black rye IPA, of the Odds n Sods school.
                      > Anyone else?
                      > Cheers,
                      > Tim
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------
                      > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 10:04 AM EDT feder_jason@... wrote:
                      >
                      > >I know that game.
                      > >
                      > >Sent from my HTC One™ S on T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network.
                      > >
                      > >----- Reply message -----
                      > >From: "Don Henderson" <don.century21@...>
                      > >To: "SODZ@yahoogroups.com" <SODZ@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                      > >Date: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 9:59 AM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >On the lighter side!
                      > >I think the most impacting is… Three pints of homebrew prior
                      > >to setting up your equipment, another two pints after you light the burners.
                      > >Then sitting down at mashing-in not realizing the automatic timer has gone off putting
                      > >the fire out 15 min. ago. After you re-light the burner, start the timer, stir
                      > >the mash, you then become hungry.  So you get something to eat and of
                      > >course another pint.  Now what should have been a two hour process has
                      > >taken you three and half.
                      > >By now you have switched to your cooking kettle and ready to add your first hops, watching
                      > >carefully to make sure there’s no boil over, but the steam keeps fogging your
                      > >glasses. Satisfied with the first addition of hops you sit and wait for thirty
                      > >minutes for the next addition.  Of course by now you are feeling no pain and pretty sure of
                      > >your brewing abilities. You then add the next addition of hops, give it a quick
                      > >stir, grab a chair to take a
                      > >seat, but then you look-up to see what appears to be a mushroom cloud coming
                      > >out of the brew kettle.
                      > >Cleaning up the mess you realize you’ve lost all sense of time. Trying
                      > >desperately to recalculate but your thinking is so foggy, you throw your hands up in surrender and pour yourself another pint. Now fast forward;
                      > >a few days after you force carbonate your beer, you take the first sip and now you’re really mad.  Not because
                      > >you forgot something in the process or added too much of something else, it’s
                      > >because you realize after all that, this is the best beer you have ever made
                      > >and you can’t remember how you did it.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >________________________________
                      > > From: Matt Titus <mtitus6@...>
                      > >To: SODZ@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:53 AM
                      > >Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 
                      > >
                      > >I'm going to take this another direction.
                      > >The most impacting aspect to my brewing is the knowledge I've gained through online forums and SODZ.  The knowledge is the key for me to brewing better beer.  You could have the fanciest equipment, and best ingredients, but without the knowledge your beer will fail.
                      > >In continuing with this theme my favorite tool is my curiosity. I constantly keep going back and researching what I think I already know how to do.  What I find is that some things I assume I am doing correctly, there are pieces I am missing.  Even this discussion on temperature control has given me a new way to do my temp control.  I have never done the cool down and warm up method, but can't wait to try.
                      > >
                      > >On Oct 1, 2012 2:40 PM, "Tim Nalley" <mordakus@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >> 
                      > >>
                      > >>Hops and grains for me. Sanitation and pitching temps are more necessary baselines than variables. Hop and grain selection have extreme variables AND huge effects on the finished product.
                      > >>As for gadgets, the only one i find indespensible is an accurate temp gauge. Its not a "convenience" because refines the most critical steps in the process: mash, boil, pitch.
                      > >>Tim
                      > >>
                      > >>------------------------------
                      > >>On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 7:02 PM EDT Victor Gonzales wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>Not sure i agree.
                      > >>
                      > >>1. Pitch at cool temps, 3-4 degrees below fermentation temps. never above fermentation temps.
                      > >>2. Counterflow with thermometer and inline aeration . ( counterflow inline aeration my gadget)
                      > >>
                      > >>Immersion chillers are cheap but you get what you pay for. ;Counterflow and plate are more efficient but at current tap water temps you can only chill to water temps which are in the 70+ degree.
                      > >>Dan is right, pitching temp is the most important thing. Bacteria doesn't have a chance if you have clean equipment and pitch large amounts of healthy yeast even if its 24 hours later. You get to many fermentation by products in your beer if you pitch warm.
                      > >>
                      > >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                      > >>
                      > >>From: John Riley <mailto:spagio%40yahoo.com>;
                      > >>To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com>;
                      > >>Subject: Re: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                      > >>Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 10:38:42 PM
                      > >>
                      > >> 
                      > >>
                      > >>Overnight?  Ouch!  For me it's
                      > >>
                      > >>1 - Pitching ASAP
                      > >>
                      > >>2 - Immersion chiller with an analog thermometer
                      > >>
                      > >>A copper coil is the most efficient and cheapest way to exchange heat between two mediums - wort and cold water in this case.  The other bonus you get when you start the cold water at the top of your wort/coil is circulation, since the cooler wort falls below the hotter wort when the water passes through the coil.  This circulation also speeds the cooling.
                      > >>
                      > >>The bacterias that harm beer can live in it soon after it cools below boiling, so you want to decrease the chances of exposing the wort by getting it into a closed system rapidly.  The other benefit you get with cooling fast is a clearer final product.
                      > >>
                      > >>The flow in the coil should not be fast either.  Ten gallons can be cooled to pitching temp in 18-25 minutes depending on the city water temp and your pitching temp.  The few gallons you use to cool the wort is cheaper than the electricity you use a more technological method.  I dont see a need for me to use any other method to cool the wort since this is working for me now.
                      > >>
                      > >>I have found the actual pitching temp is not too crucial.  If the temp is on the upper end of the range which it can live and start to flocculate, you will be OK.  Dont get too high or your yeast will die.
                      > >>
                      > >>Just my thoughts...
                      > >>
                      > >>From: dan.france <mailto:dan.france%40yahoo.com>
                      > >>To: mailto:SODZ%40yahoogroups.com
                      > >>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:20 AM
                      > >>Subject: [SODZ] Most impacting aspect of brewing
                      > >>
                      > >> 
                      > >>
                      > >>I have had this discussion with a handful of folks over the years, and am always interested to hear their replies.
                      > >>
                      > >>1 - What do you feel is the most impacting aspect of brewing? (other than sanitation).
                      > >>
                      > >>2 - What gadget/gizmo/tip/trick do you employ to handle the above?
                      > >>
                      > >>For me, I think pitching temp is the most crucial aspect. A lot of 'stuff' happens as soon as the yeast hits the wort, and the temperature where that happens can impact the end product considerably. I have a fridge with a dual stage temperature controller and a thermowell as my 'gadget' to control pitching temp. Here lately, I have been chilling as far as it will go, then setting the wort in the fridge overnight to get it down to my desired temp, then pitch in the morning.
                      > >>
                      > >>Any other folks have thoughts??????
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      >
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