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Re: CHURCH AND POLITICS

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  • thomas_pa1
    Dear Thomas, St. Demetrius, the Patriarch of Alexandria sent St. Pantaenus to India to preach Christian fiath of School of Alexandria. This is reported in the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 10, 2002
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      Dear Thomas, St. Demetrius, the Patriarch of Alexandria sent
      St. Pantaenus to India to preach Christian fiath of School
      of Alexandria. This is reported in the history of St. Eusebius.

      -Thomas



      --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "V Thomas" wrote:
      > Dear ALL,
      > Today's world is small due to better communication and trans port.
      Something
      > happens any corner of the world it is known to every one through
      media.
      > Hence things come to light very fast. People view things and
      criticize
      > actions. Pope/bishops no one is exempted. This quarrel and fights
      were there
      > always among men.
      > Roman church persecuted all other Christians for power and
      > number(popularity). They have forcibly taken our people in India,to
      their
      > fold. Same thing they have done
      > all over the world. But that does not mean there any faithful among
      them.
      > There would have been silent, insignificant Gods children among
      them,who
      > will inherit heaven.
      >
      > Why, fight was among the first line of Christ's disciple's .We
      cannot be
      > more informed about Christ words and actions than them. We cannot be
      holier
      > than them.
      > (Even though we have holier people to whom saint hood awarded as
      Oscars).
      >
      > The bishops who came from Syria it took 3-4 years to reach
      India.Enroute
      > many died and killed. They were driven and guided by Christian
      spirit.
      > Today orthodox people say they came for money.They can not
      understand any
      > thing more than money.They are the people who occupy
      > Church property.They drive God,to court.
      > Even today our tradition is same and a vast majority of the people
      live in
      > the same tradition and devotion. We can see them in our churches
      > We can see the shine on faces, through Holy Communion they are part
      of
      > Christ body, they are Gods children. They are the real Christians.
      >
      > Dear Kuruvilla do not get disheartened by the who fight, have an eye
      on
      > position and ditch each other and say all this
      > is for Gods sake,prompted by Holy Ghost.Try to emulate the real Gods
      > children.
      > Love
      > vmt
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "kuriakose george"@... [mailto:"kuriakose
      > george"@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:39 PM
      > To: SOCM-FORUM@y...
      > Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] CHURCH AND POLITICS
      >
      > Dear All,
      >
      > I read recent posting on this forum about Indian Presidential
      nomination
      > (whether PCA, BP, Narayanan, Fr Kallapara etc). I have fully
      convinced
      > that I am not at all wrong in my opinion about US ( the great
      traditional
      > MALANKARA SYRIAN CHRISTIANS whether it is orthodox/Jacobite)..
    • Fr. John Kunjukunju
      Dear Ravi, What I said in that posting concerns only that subject. I have no disagreement with you when you say both parties are equally wrong and unchristian.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 10, 2002
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        Dear Ravi,
        What I said in that posting concerns only that subject. I have no
        disagreement with you when you say both parties are equally wrong and
        unchristian. I do not support or side any one party. I do not wish to
        comment about the Parumala meeting since it is already in litigation. I will
        accept whatever is the outcome.
        Since you said that I have a question and that is, how do we justify the
        choice (Ido not know the exact word to use) of Mor Dionesius as "Niyuktha."
        Was it legally constituted meeting or was it proper election and do you
        justify the way and purpose of it.
        What I say is both are equally wrong, but who cares our concerns.
        Fr John.
        >From: George Varghese
        >Reply-To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
        >To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency
        >Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 11:15:08 +0300
        >
        >8 June
        >
        >Respected Achen,
        >
        > I cannot agree with you. Patriarchal faction alone cannot be
        >blamed.
        >The methran kakshi leadership is also equally responsible for loosing
        >christian spirit in the church. Can you justify the parumala meeting ?
        >Is
        >it convened properly ? People loose their mind when they are totally
        >ignored.
        >
        >Revi/Kuwait
        >
        >"Fr. John Kunjukunju" wrote:
        >
        > > My intention here is only to say Dr Babu Paul, well done. If people with
        > > sense makes their voice, though there will be problems, things will
        >change
        > > in the long run. Behind every change there is someone made scapegoat.
        > > My honest opinion is that present patriarchal faction is the only
        >faction
        > > who completely lost the Christian spirit.
        > > One open word against the system is enough to ruin the whole thing. It
        >paid
        > > rich dividents to me for airing certain frank opinions.
        > > This is less than a cult. We can only pray. Fr John KK.
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > SOCM-FORUM-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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      • DANIEL BABU PAUL
        my position is clear. I am a member of the KPDY and TRVM SOC parishes. However I cannot accept the legally wrong positions taken by our leadership; not only
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 11, 2002
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          my position is clear.

          I am a member of the KPDY and TRVM SOC parishes. However I cannot accept the
          legally wrong positions taken by our leadership; not only myself, ask Cori
          Pathickal( V. Revd. Ouseph Corepiscopa, Pathickal, Perumbavoor, P. O. ,
          Ernakulam District.). My position is as advised by Parasaran; he should know
          law.

          PCA: my reservation was only about the church taking a view. PCA had been
          kind to me , but he has also done to me a very unkind thing, at least once,
          in my IAS career. So I have no personal reason to look forward to a PCA
          presidency. I was only on a principle.

          TOTUS TUUS MARIA
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <madhu george>
          To: <SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:15 PM
          Subject: Re: Re: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency


          > dear Babu Paul,I thank you for finding time to reply.but its still
          > frustrating that you keep people guessing regarding your real
          > intentions.you claim you are still close to the Patriarch but yet
          > your grouse is against the "church leadership".you claim you are
          > still a loyal servant of the church but then wer'ent you
          > hobnobbing with the 3 disgraced bishops who were suspended by the
          > Patriarch himself.....
        • DANIEL BABU PAUL
          my position is clear. 1. I am a member of TRVm and KPDY Syrian Orthodox parishes. 2. I feel that our leadership is deliberately flouting court orders. I keep
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 11, 2002
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            my position is clear.
            1. I am a member of TRVm and KPDY Syrian Orthodox parishes.
            2. I feel that our leadership is deliberately flouting court orders. I keep
            quiet because I do not think they like to hear any dissent. First it was me,
            now it is Cori Pathickal etc.
            3. Reg PCA my only point was that a President can in no way interfere with
            our petty church politics. So our objection is only because he belonged to
            the other group. In any case we need not as a church take a view on things
            like Presidential election. Our people vote for Oommen Chandi, their people
            vote for Thankachan Chettan and jacob. When Justice Balakrishnan's father
            died, aged 92 or so, laid up with paralysis for 4 years, on the eve of the
            SC verdict some of our people said it was because of our prayers. Sorry, my
            conscience revolts! In fact I have signed off this forum because I find it
            becomes a distraction in my spiritual life. I try to forget our leaders
            committing contempt of court: e.g. the southern diocese has no bishop with
            the benefit of status quo since Perumpilly Thirumeni died, but we pretend as
            if Koorilose Thirumeni's office has legal sanctity. When Thirumeni comes I
            assist, of course, but that only shows my respect for his KAIVAPPU. People
            do not understand simple things, what can I do! After 95 there is only one
            church. Those who do not want to be part of that church can still keep
            connection with Antioch through EAE, Simhasana Church and Honavar mission.
            Thus the court provides for two streams here, but when we say that we must
            have the cake and eat it too , then, it becomes illegal AS THINGS STAND NOW.
            The parish autonomy has two dimensions. One relates to its administration.
            The KPDY school, e.g., is exclusively within the autonomy of the KPDY
            parish; but Sc has held that AS PART OF MALANKARA CHURCH the parish is bound
            by the 34 Constitution. We find it difficult to get senior lawyers to argue
            our case now!See also the other shorter reply,
            Thank you.
            TOTUS TUUS MARIA
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <madhu george>
            To: <SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:15 PM
            Subject: Re: Re: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency


            > dear Babu Paul,I thank you for finding time to reply.but its still
            > frustrating that you keep people guessing regarding your real
            > intentions.you claim you are still close to the Patriarch but yet
            > your grouse is against the "church leadership".you claim you are
            > still a loyal servant of the church but then wer'ent you
            > hobnobbing with the 3 disgraced bishops who were suspended by the
            > Patriarch himself....
          • Moderators
            Clarification of misconcepts is part of education. However, we will not entertain further comments on this topic at this point. Thank you for your
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 12, 2002
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              Clarification of misconcepts is part of education. However, we will not entertain further comments on this topic at this point. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.



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