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Re: [SOCM-FORUM] CHURCH AND POLITICS

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  • George Varghese
    8 June To Kuriakose George The real cause of the deterioration of the traditions of our beloved church is Malayala Manorama and its associates. They ruined
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 7, 2002
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      8 June

      To Kuriakose George

      The real cause of the deterioration of the traditions of our beloved church is
      Malayala Manorama and its associates. They ruined this church. They started
      using politicians for the benefit of the methran kakshi. and patriarchal faction
      reciprocated. Their actual intention was business improvement. For that they
      sided with methran kakshi. How much political pressure was exerted by these
      henious people to win the 1958 case is well known to everybody. The holy
      spirit is not prevailing in this church only because of the outside political
      and legal people's pressure on both sides. Unfortunately leaderships on both
      sides do not understand this.




      "kuriakose george" wrote:

      > Dear All,
      >
      > I read recent posting on this forum about Indian Presidential nomination
      > (whether PCA, BP, Narayanan, Fr Kallapara etc). I have fully convinced
      > that I am not at all wrong in my opinion about US ( the great traditional
      > MALANKARA SYRIAN CHRISTIANS whether it is orthodox/Jacobite).
    • George Varghese
      8 June Respected Achen, I cannot agree with you. Patriarchal faction alone cannot be blamed. The methran kakshi leadership is also equally responsible
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 8, 2002
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        8 June

        Respected Achen,

        ��� I� cannot� agree with you.�� Patriarchal faction alone cannot� be blamed.� The methran kakshi leadership is also� equally responsible for loosing christian spirit in the church.��� Can� you justify the parumala meeting ?� Is� it convened properly� ?�� People loose� their mind when they are totally ignored.

        Revi/Kuwait

        "Fr. John Kunjukunju" wrote:

        My intention here is only to say Dr Babu Paul, well done. If people with
        sense makes their voice, though there will be problems, things will change
        in the long run. Behind every change there is someone made scapegoat.
        My honest opinion is that present patriarchal faction is the only faction
        who completely lost the Christian spirit....
      • madhu george
        dear Babu Paul,I thank you for finding time to reply.but its still frustrating that you keep people guessing regarding your real intentions.you claim you are
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 8, 2002
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          dear Babu Paul,I thank you for finding time to reply.but its still
          frustrating that you keep people guessing regarding your real
          intentions.you claim you are still close to the Patriarch but yet
          your grouse is against the "church leadership".you claim you are
          still a loyal servant of the church but then wer'ent you
          hobnobbing with the 3 disgraced bishops who were suspended by the
          Patriarch himself.you say that the
          catholicos of the methran faction personally desires peace.what
          have you got to say of the
          catholicos' tacit compliance with the rabid elements of that
          treacherous faction who attempt to close our churches.don't you
          think God will support us against them in this fight?you criticise
          the actions of the church leadership.what's wrong with them.we
          have made our position very clear.we do not want any of their
          properties.why don't they allow us to live in peace?we follow the
          same approach,Abraham followed against Lot.is it
          un-christianly?and when we oppose attempts of certain newspaper
          mafia to elevate P.C.Alexander to the presidency,why should you be
          worried?.his actions all throughout his supposedly distinguished
          career has been akin to hunting with the hound and running with
          the hare.and since they are old habits they will die hard.surely
          we cannot sign our own death warrant.(its preferable to die after
          5 years than sooner).

          On Sat, 01 Jun 2002 "DANIEL
          BABU PAUL" wrote :
          >yesterday i was in a hurry.
          >Reg Kaniamparampil Achan's "experiments with truth" you can ask
          >him; I don't
          >think he would mind. alternatively you can ask Corepiscopa PP
          >Joseph,
          >Kottayam...
        • PAUL POTHEN
          Babu Paul, In the last email you tried to preach that since we are all Christians , we must forgive and only that is Christian. I too agree with that, but let
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 8, 2002
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            Babu Paul,

            In the last email you tried to preach that since we are all Christians , we must forgive and only that is Christian.I too agree with that, but let me ask why you are not yet ready to repent for calling Kallapara Achen just as Kallapara, even after many in this forum mentioned that.Now it is your duty to do what you try to preach others.The personal egos with Kallapara family may have prompted you to criticize the Achen, but now is the ideal time to repent yourself for mentioning the priest as just "Kallapara".But if you are not ready to correct that, then how could you advise others to follow.



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          • V Thomas
            Dear ALL, Today s world is small due to better communication and trans port. Something happens any corner of the world it is known to every one through media.
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 8, 2002
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              Dear ALL,
              Today's world is small due to better communication and trans port. Something
              happens any corner of the world it is known to every one through media.
              Hence things come to light very fast. People view things and criticize
              actions. Pope/bishops no one is exempted. This quarrel and fights were there
              always among men.
              Roman church persecuted all other Christians for power and
              number(popularity). They have forcibly taken our people in India,to their
              fold. Same thing they have done
              all over the world. But that does not mean there any faithful among them.
              There would have been silent, insignificant Gods children among them,who
              will inherit heaven.

              Why, fight was among the first line of Christ's disciple's .We cannot be
              more informed about Christ words and actions than them. We cannot be holier
              than them.
              (Even though we have holier people to whom saint hood awarded as Oscars).

              The bishops who came from Syria it took 3-4 years to reach India.Enroute
              many died and killed. They were driven and guided by Christian spirit.
              Today orthodox people say they came for money.They can not understand any
              thing more than money.They are the people who occupy
              Church property.They drive God,to court.
              Even today our tradition is same and a vast majority of the people live in
              the same tradition and devotion. We can see them in our churches
              We can see the shine on faces, through Holy Communion they are part of
              Christ body, they are Gods children. They are the real Christians.

              Dear Kuruvilla do not get disheartened by the who fight, have an eye on
              position and ditch each other and say all this
              is for Gods sake,prompted by Holy Ghost.Try to emulate the real Gods
              children.
              Love
              vmt



              -----Original Message-----
              From: "kuriakose george"@... [mailto:"kuriakose
              george"@...]
              Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:39 PM
              To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] CHURCH AND POLITICS

              Dear All,

              I read recent posting on this forum about Indian Presidential nomination
              (whether PCA, BP, Narayanan, Fr Kallapara etc). I have fully convinced
              that I am not at all wrong in my opinion about US ( the great traditional
              MALANKARA SYRIAN CHRISTIANS whether it is orthodox/Jacobite)..
            • Jacob George Jacob
              A few days back i have read a mail by Babu Paul calling Fr.Kallappara Achen as Kallapara, a village priest with SSLC & TTC . I am very sad that a person of
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 9, 2002
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                A few days back i have read a mail by Babu Paul calling
                Fr.Kallappara Achen "as Kallapara, a village priest with
                SSLC & TTC".

                I am very sad that a person of such a great knowledge like
                Babu Paul, who himself claims, "My postings are , have always
                been, in the hands of God; that is why even today 2 years
                after retirement I am being used by God." (Posting in SOCM
                forum dated, Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:17:41 +0530, write articles
                like this. I don't know whether God has given him special
                permission to post articles like this in an Internet forum.
                May be he responded so cheaply because of his human nature.

                Anyhow it will good to read what this Kallapara Achen
                (SSLC & TTC in the words of Babu Paul IAS)wrote about Babu Paul
                in the book "Keralathile kraisthava Sabakal, Oru Padanam"
                (Page 17) published in 1994 by Achen himself. In this book
                Kallappara Achen had only praised this Babu Paul IAS
                (in a special section).

                Now compare the languages & the standards of Babu Paul who
                termed Kallapara Achen as a “village priest with SSLC & TTC”,
                with that of the Kallapara Achen who termed Babu Paul as a
                great person in that book.

                Who is of high standard ? Is that the Babu Paul who have
                tons of degrees but using indecent languages to criticize others
                and thereby expressing his unwillingness to accept the general
                feelings of the common man --- OR ---- is that this
                “village Priest” (in Babu Paul IAS’s words) who termed this
                Babu Paul as a great person ?

                Dear Babu Paul Sir, it will be good if you use words wisely,
                remember once said it couldn’t be taken back unless he is a
                political character.
                Jacob
              • DANIEL BABU PAUL
                Thank you. Pray for me. TOTUS TUUS MARIA ... From: To: Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:48 AM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 9, 2002
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                  Thank you. Pray for me.
                  TOTUS TUUS MARIA
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <Fr. John Kunjukunju>
                  To: <SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:48 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency


                  > My intention here is only to say Dr Babu Paul, well done. If people with
                  > sense makes their voice, though there will be problems, things will change
                  > in the long run. Behind every change there is someone made scapegoat.
                  > My honest opinion is that present patriarchal faction is the only faction
                  > who completely lost the Christian spirit.
                  > One open word against the system is enough to ruin the whole thing. It
                  paid
                  > rich dividents to me for airing certain frank opinions.
                  > This is less than a cult. We can only pray. Fr John KK.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > SOCM-FORUM-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • John Mancha
                  I strongly feel that , we should not have discussed the topic in this forum. John Mancha
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 9, 2002
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                    I strongly feel that , we should not have discussed
                    the topic in this forum.

                    John Mancha

                    --- "DANIEL BABU PAUL"@... wrote:
                    > yesterday i was in a hurry.
                    > Reg Kaniamparampil Achan's "experiments with truth"
                    > you can ask him; I don't
                    > think he would mind. alternatively you can ask
                    > Corepiscopa PP Joseph,
                    > Kottayam. I do not know the exact years,
                    > Pulickaparampil Achan may remember.
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