Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency
- My intention here is only to say Dr Babu Paul, well done. If people with
sense makes their voice, though there will be problems, things will change
in the long run. Behind every change there is someone made scapegoat.
My honest opinion is that present patriarchal faction is the only faction
who completely lost the Christian spirit.
One open word against the system is enough to ruin the whole thing. It paid
rich dividents to me for airing certain frank opinions.
This is less than a cult. We can only pray. Fr John KK.
- yesterday i was in a hurry.
Reg Kaniamparampil Achan's "experiments with truth" you can ask him; I don't
think he would mind. alternatively you can ask Corepiscopa PP Joseph,
Kottayam. I do not know the exact years, Pulickaparampil Achan may remember.
Metran Kakshi, I think, was as Vicar in Trichur parish: again I can't give
exact years. These are tidbits one collects as one grows up.
I have no aversion to the Patriarch side. I am still an altarboy, my 56th
year, in our parish here. I cannot agree with the attitude of the
leadership, which, I fear, will lead to the conversion of a major church
into a minor group in , say, five years from now. If I were to develop
aversion I should have, in 1974 when they first sent complaint against
e( the first signatory is now in the Devalokam Committees!!!), or when our "
synod" waited on Achutanandan in 96 to plead that I may not be made Chief
Secretary( one of the bishops made a "confession" to me later, I had heard
even earlier), or when they prevented the Patriarch against Moran's wishes
to visit my wife in her sick bed or even seeing me although HH would have
liked me to translate the speech which I had written for him( BJP mouthpiece
compared that speech with Pope's Delhi speech and said our Bawa was
wiser!!!, Bawa wanted a photocopy and translation of that editorial which I
sent later), or when they issued a defamatory kalpana(which many achans
refused to read!): I have no aversion; I just feel sad that the church
leadership has fallen into the hands of shortsighted people.
As for Roman Catholics my position is the same as that of HH. We are in
economic communion with them the world over; that is why even in Kerala
Catholics give desakuri for the Patriarch side( the other side is close to
the declaration we made in 84, but yet to formally make it).
Hope this clarifies the position.
TOTUS TUUS MARIA
----- Original Message -----
From: <madhu george>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's nomination for Presidency
> dear Babu Paul,i cannot understand your aversion to the
> patriarch faction of late.it does not behove the status of a man
> who was adorned the decoration of the Holy Ghost to betray the
> church.since when did you start realising the virtues of the Roman
> Catholic church.was their persecution of all non catholic
> christians the world over all these years,the source of your
> inspiration. and when was Kaniamparampil Kurien Cor-Episcopa,a
> member of the catholic church?please clarify,for i intend to take
> this matter up with Achen....
I have read a posting by a Methran Kakshi fellow (DOOLEY ) questioning the nature of the SOCM forum (ie; whether this forum is a Political or Religious).
Dear Sir, before criticizing this forum please go back to the year 2000 when the Kerala Assembly elections was going on. Do you remember who was the Left Front candidate for the Sultan Batherry constituency? It was none other than the present Priest Trustee of Methran Kakshi, Fr. Mathai Nooronal !!!
Do you know what was his qualification for such a candidature? �. Only his money power & greed for positions after positions !!!
Now do you know with how much margin he was defeated? It was the 3rd highest in that election ie; 20,000 +. The people had rejected him outright.
Naturally in that election, the Jacobite Christians also was for the defeat of Mathai Nooronal Achen, he being a Methran Kakshi �Priest Trustee�, who always tried to destroy them. But it was not only the Jacobites who opposed this Achen, but also some Methran Kakshi Priests from Kunnamkulam and the Almaya Association of Methran Kakshi and many of its ordinary members.
But inspite of knowing the general opinion of the Methran Kakshi members, none from its top leadership requested nor pressurised the Achen, to withdraw his candidature nor did he ever was removed from his post, why ? ONLY BECAUSE EVERYONE IN THE TOP IS ONLY INTERESTED IN POLITICS !!!! & ALSO BECAUSE THIS ACHEN IS VERY INFLUENTIAL (Politically) & RICH !!!!
NOW CAN YOU TERM YOUR FACTION AS JUST A POLITICAL PARTY, BECAUSE OF ITS PRIEST TRUSTEES�S CANDIATURE IN A GENERAL ELECTION.
ONE MORE THING, do you know that there was a detailed discussion in the Indian Orthodox forum on the candidature of this Priest trustee of Methran Kakshi around the time of the AssemblY election, just like the present discussion in SOCM forum regarding the candidature of PC Alexander. I have then read many postings in that Indian Orthodox forum supporting the Priest trustee�s candidature and most in that forum predicted an easy victory for him. Now do you accept that this Indian Orthodox forum of your Church too is just a political forum and not a religious forum?
Dear Sir, it will be better to think twice before criticizing others for the same.
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- Dear Sir,
Politics is a part of life.The Saint(!!) Vattserils
politics is what we have inherited.
--- DOOLEY1112@... wrote:
> Is this is Christian Forum or a Political Forum?__________________________________________________
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- Dear All,
What Babu Paul forgot is Jesus did not select his
followers from PhD's.
It was unchristain on his part to call a respected
priest as SSLC and redicule,that too after saying he
is writting this prompted by Holy Ghost.
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- Dear All,
I read recent posting on this forum about Indian Presidential nomination
(whether PCA, BP, Narayanan, Fr Kallapara etc). I have fully convinced
that I am not at all wrong in my opinion about US ( the great traditional
MALANKARA SYRIAN CHRISTIANS whether it is orthodox/Jacobite).
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MONEY, POWER, POLITICS, THRONE WE WILL HAVE HOLY SPIRIT
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CHARITY, SPIRITUALITY, LOVE, BROTHERHOOD WE WILL HAVE
COOLIE's (LABOUR'S) SPIRIT
(Spirit smuggled from TN ,freely available in kerala either thru govt.
owned or distributed by private Abkari contractors, after having 20 ml
we will carry kuruvadi to street/church (shame, in our churches we are
not at all bothered to carry the traditional ornamental things like kuriz,
koda, kodi etc inherited by us for religious processions( perunal)
on streets in a number of vehicles( Ratham) fitted with high volume
speakers and flags(kodi) for procession.( like political parties).
Friends and brothers can you please tell me which spirit you have received
for which you have lost your wisdom of Christianity.
Any way most of us (including me) have taken the COOLIE's spirit. That is
why we talk politics, we hurt people, we act proud. Are we not made our
churches as commercial establishment (just survey when you travel MS
Christians dominated places, we will see on all road sides more kurizpally
and Erupannaram (Throw in Donation Boxes). Now we want our church to be
politicized. Then why don't we convert/donate our churches for political
party's offices (Not a bad idea, money & power is there also). (Refer my
earlier posting -quote " MS Churches in Kerala one day will be a govt. owned
body same as DEVASOM BOARD". It seems that it is imminent.). Well,
brothers please do not allow this. Church, Politics, Money, Muscle Power are
to be treated as different entities.
Remember, decline of Christianity/x'ian values in western countries/Europe,
are because of unnecessary interference by churches in political arena. Do
we want this? Stop and think for a while. Apply the wisdom you have got
from the real HOLY SPIRIT of Christianity.
Kuriakose George, New Delhi
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- you are factually wrong on history: the Nampadan episode was after the Patriarch left Kerala. I broke the news to Bawa in Bombay.PCA was the one who arranged HH's meeting with PM, amidst a busy schedule, finding a few minutes in the Parliament House when Lok Sabha was in session.I have no grievance against abnybody waiting on the verandah od Achutanandan's house. My postings are , have always been, in the hands of God; that is why even today 2 years after retirement I am being used by God.In Malayalam there is a saying that before killing a dog it should be branded rabid. This is what people have done to me. I have not protested; I just don't care. I say things which I am convinced of. If it irritates people I am sorry. When you say that you cannot forgive PCA you are not being Christian; Christianity is all about forgiveness. Anyway my main point is that it is only total ignorance of the office of the President or total lack of Christian charity which prompts this kind of outburst against a distant possibility of a person WHOSE CHURCH AFFILIATION AND CHURCHRELATED VIEWS WE DO NOT APPROVE OF getting nominated. For all one knows PCA may not make it at all, but for us to stoop so low as we have done as a church is very unchristian.We as a church look like fools in the eyes of people outside the rabid factionalists.Teaching is not inferior. My mother was a teacher. What I meant was only that his knowledge can be very limited and his horizon very small.And therefore in him an error like this is pardonable. It would be unpardonable in people like you who are obviously wellversed in history, law, theology ,etc. whatever be your field of specialisation.TOTUS TUUS MARIA----- Original Message -----From: PAUL POTHENSent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:17 PMSubject: Re: [SOCM-FORUM] P C Alexander's & Babu Paul's nominations
About Babu Pauls response to P C Alexanders nomination & Kallapara Achen.
Dear Babu Paul Sir,
It will be good if you can spend some time to realise the facts. All who is truthful to the Church knows that, what forced the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Christians to object the nomination of P C Alexander to the president-ship. You too know the facts, which you have expressed in PRIVATE Conversations (though you may deny now) to top leaders in our Church when you were in the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church.
In 1982, on the eve of the Patriarchs visit to Malankara, there was a great pressure on the then Indian Government to disallow His Holinesss visit...