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Iindian Orthodox Forum against North Keralites

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  • PAUL POTHEN
    Dear moderator, I am enclosing a letter send by my friend to Indian Orthodox forum (IOF), which they were reluctant to publish. He wrote this letter to IOF
    Message 1 of 9 , May 16, 2002
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      Dear moderator,
       
      I am enclosing a letter send by my friend to Indian Orthodox forum (IOF), which they were reluctant to publish.  He wrote this letter to IOF after going through many of the postings in that forum that unnecessarily critisized the Northern Kerala Orthodox Christians for their continued affiliation to the Syrian Orthodox Church.  Unfortunately they (IOF) didn't published the following letter, but again & again this forum of Methran kakshi is posting letters attacking the North Kerala Orthodox Christians in the form of advice to them. So i am sending this to SOCM forum to publish this. 
       
       
      Letter send to IOF forum
       
      Dear IOF members,
       
      This is in reply to a recent posting in this forum, in which one member ( & many others) indirectly (& directly) criticized the entire NORTH KERALA Orthodox Christian members.  May be they were forced to react like this just because the majority in that area are followers of Patriarchal side.  
       
      But I think it is very foolish to propagate such rubbish attitudes.  To my experience ( I belong to Kottayam-central), the northerners are more dependable and sincere than the southerners.  This is a fact which most southerners cannot easily digest .   But it is a truth.  There is even a talk among all the sections that the southerners (South of La-palem, i.e.; south of Changanasseery) cannot be relied at all.  (In reality Kottayam people too are not reliable).  People call the Christians of South Kerala as 'Achayan'  and the Kottayam Christians as 'Jubakkar'.  This is not only limited to a particular Christian sect, but is a general talk among all sections of people.  This was once expressed by the ex-chief Minister E K Nayanar himself in an interview in Doordarshan TV channel.  Again I recall one debate that was conducted among 50 odd people in Asianet TV Channel (Nammal Thammil) a year ago, on the very subject (Northerners vs. southerners).  Those who watched the programme can easily conclude the reality.
       
      I think it is because of the ego problems that exists in south kerala, so many factions of Christian Churches erupt daily in this part of the world.  The innumerable numbers of Pentecostal and other protestant Churches is an amble proof to this.  Remember even the MarThoma Church also split in 1950's to form an Evangelical Church.  Compare this with the North kerala Christians.  You can find out, a very few persons in that area, who is willing to side with the teachings that change daily.   
       
      Recently I met an Orthodox Christian doctor from Pampady (Kottayam) who is now working in Chalakkudy near Trichur, a Roman catholic predominant area.  He earlier had worked in hospitals at thiruvalla & Chengannur.  His opinion is that the northerners are generally more reliable and obedient than southerners.  Remember he is a person who is in contact with many patients daily and that was his opinion.
       
      This very nature of the locals (southerners & northerners) is reflecting among the people of Orthodox Christians also.   For the people of South Kerala, money & power is the only criteria for a successful life, but for the northerners there is a human relationship they wanted to continue.  It is because of that greater humanity among the North Kerala Christians, the divorce cases in that area is much much lower than in the south.   Generally, the North kerala people (both men & women) prefer to do any work unlike those (particularly the women flock) in the South kerala who are simply sitting and arguing.  The Christian women in south kerala are more interested in Cosmetics than their home works.  The southerners believes that they belong to a certain social elite group.  If you watch Malayala Manorama you can see full page advts. of Christian families of the South Kerala claiming that they are the descendants of those directly converted by St.Thomas.   Again if we watch Manorama edition from South Kerala, one can see many more photos (as advts.) in memory of  their late ancestors.  Kottayam & Southern editions of Manorama is dedicating usually two or three pages exclusively for this.  Remember most are doing this just to get some publicity, they don't even think that the money (Rs.5000/- above) they spend is actually  a waste.   The southerners have some sort of ego problem, which gradually make them more aggressive and this is exactly what is found out in a survey conducted by an agency which was published in all the prominent Malayalam dailies recently.
       
      So my request to all, who always find a fault with the Northerners in the Church issue, must know that this will not solve any Church related problems.   It is not very difficult to find out that that some are doing this just to find an excuse in attacking the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church.  So my kind advice to the members who are actively involved in the Indian Orthodox forum, is to avoid any immature reactions like critisizing the entire Northerners, always !!    It will be good to recall that many are reading your IOF forum, so please think twice before publishing any rubbish such as that critisizing the North Kerala Orthodox Christians, only for the reason that many in this area are not supporting the dubious acts of the Kottayam based Kerala Orthodocs faction.
       
      Mathews V



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    • thomas_pa1
      Very Good! I think these news papers are doing business and they will do any marketing technique to increase the number of readers. Revenue which comes from
      Message 2 of 9 , May 16, 2002
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        Very Good! I think these news papers are doing
        business and they will do any marketing technique to
        increase the number of readers. Revenue which comes from
        subscription, advertising etc. is related to number
        of readers. We cannot say 'abc' newspaper is bad and
        'xyz' is good. Both survive by reporting news. In the
        process of increasing number of readers, newspapers can
        get polarized. They take advantage of politics in the
        society. Suppose say 'xyz' newspaper reports only
        certain events in the Church. Will those people not
        favouring such events in the Church avoid reading 'xyz'
        newspaper? I doubt. Those interested will try to get a
        copy of 'xyz' and eagerly read it to find out more about
        the event and tactics behind the event. Every event has
        an aim, a definite tactics towards a goal. This way, the
        newspaper company double the number of readers. Similarly those
        favouring such events will read 'abc' newspaper to
        find out the next step of those not favouring the events.

        -Thomas


        --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., Humble Servant of Christ <bayoftruth@y...>
        wrote:
        > dear forum Members:
        >
        > See for yourself, i had sent a copy of Email "KIND
        > ATTN: Jacobite bishops of Kerala "to Manorama News
        > Paper 3 days back.
      • James
        Dear All, Thank you all who have been praying for Ganesh. He was operated the second time last Monday, 29th, and 99% of the tumour was removed from near the
        Message 3 of 9 , May 17, 2002
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          Dear All,

          Thank you all who have been praying for Ganesh. He
          was operated the second time last Monday, 29th, and
          99% of the tumour was removed from near the medella
          region of the brain. Luckily, thank God, the tumour
          is tested to be benign (not malignant).

          Ganesh is recovering well. Pls continue to keep him
          in your prayers.

          In Christ
          James
          --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Thomas Daniel" <daniel_reji@h...> wrote:
          >
        • V Thomas
          Very impressive and forceful argument Regards ... From: drthomas_joseph @indianhosting.com [mailto: drthomas_joseph @indianhosting.com] Sent: Wednesday, May
          Message 4 of 9 , May 17, 2002
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            Very impressive and forceful argument
            Regards

            -----Original Message-----
            From: "drthomas_joseph"@...
            [mailto:"drthomas_joseph"@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:36 PM
            To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: Baptism.

            Shlomo Rajesh:

            You are entitled to your opinions and interpretation of scripture,
            but I would like you to consider the following:

            1. St. Paul rebukes the early Christians, not the early Fathers of
            the Church. That is not to say that the early fathers were
            infallible. But by the same token, the apostles and disciples of
            Christ some of whom authored the books of the New Testament were not
            either. We find St. Peter betraying Christ (Matt 26:69), St. James
            and John seeking positions of pre-eminence (Mark 10:37), St. Thomas
            expressing unbelief at the ressurection (John 20:25), St. Paul
            anticipating an imminent second coming (I Cor 15:51), St. Matthew in
            his zeal to proclaim Christ as the fulfiller of prophecies, seating
            Christ both on a donkey and a colt on his Entry into Jerusalem (Matt
            21:7, as fulfilment of Zach 9:9), other inconsistencies between the
            Gospel accounts, etc. We cannot accept the New Testament as scripture
            and completely disregard the teachings and traditions of the Holy
            Fathers of the Church, which elaborate and interpret the word of
            truth with authority.

            2. The evolution of New Testament as scripture from a large body of
            writings happened much after the era of the Apostles and the
            Disciples. The early Fathers of the Church in the second century
            accepted some of the writings as authentic part of the scripture,
            rejecting many, and considering others as apocryphal. In fact, this
            resulted in variant canons of the scripture varied among different
            Churches. To this day, for instance, the Syriac Orthodox Church as
            well other Oriental churches consider the Book of Revelation as
            apocryphal and not part of the accepted canon of the New Testament.
            The authenticity of Acts authored by St. Luke was of course never in
            doubt. However, the point is that the very fathers you appear to
            minimize were responsible for the selection of the writings that
            today form what we know as the New Testament. You may argue that the
            writings that made it into the canon were divinely pre-ordained to be
            so, yet you cannot minimize the role of the early Fathers in shaping
            what we regard as scripture today. I would caution against the rather
            naive Protestant-influenced attitude of regarding scripture as the
            literal word of God, interpreting verses of scripture narrowly taking
            them out of the social, cultural, linguistic and historical context
            in which they were authored, ignoring Patristic traditions and
            reaching conclusions that were far from the intent of the authors.

            3. As St. Paul says in his epistle to the Hebrews (1:1-2), "In the
            past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times
            and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by
            his Son,..." Throughout the salvation history of mankind, God has
            spoken to man. He continues to speak to us to this day; unfortunately
            many of us do not strive to listen. While we pride in our
            intellectual faculties and knowledge, most of us are too engrossed in
            the ways of the world to hear and imbibe the Word of God with wisdom.
            It is thus very meaningful that we pray in the divine liturgy to
            raise Fathers of the Church who teach and interpret the word of truth
            correctly. Our attitude should be one of humility and submission to
            the Word of God and to the authority of the Church and its Fathers so
            that we can truly hear Him as He speaks to us.

            Thomas Joseph, Ph.D.
            Web Master, SOR (http://sor.cua.edu)
            Technical Editor, Hugoye (http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye)



            --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., "Rajesh Philipos" wrote:
            > Dear all,
            >
            > Thank you for replying to my message. I am heartened to see that we
            all care
            > for each other, especially our spiritual needs and so you took time
            out to
            > answer my question.
            >
            > It might be true that infant baptism started from the 3rd century.
            However,
            > I am not of the opinion that everything that the early church
            fathers did
            > were right......



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          • thomas_pa1
            I have read this letter in the IOIF forum. -Thomas ... Orthodox forum (IOF), which they were reluctant to publish. He wrote this letter to IOF after going
            Message 5 of 9 , May 17, 2002
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              I have read this letter in the IOIF forum.

              -Thomas



              --- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., PAUL POTHEN <paulpothen@y...> wrote:
              > Dear moderator, I am enclosing a letter send by my friend to Indian
              Orthodox forum (IOF), which they were reluctant to publish. He wrote
              this letter to IOF after going through many of the postings in that
              forum that unnecessarily critisized the Northern Kerala Orthodox
              Christians for their continued affiliation to the Syrian Orthodox
              Church. Unfortunately they (IOF) didn't published the following
              letter, but again & again this forum of Methran kakshi is posting
              letters attacking the North Kerala Orthodox Christians in the form of
              advice to them....
            • roymathews
              This letter shows how ignorant these kottayam based methra faction clowns are. They cannot even spell correctly the name Patriarch. regards roymathews- ...
              Message 6 of 9 , May 17, 2002
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                This letter shows how ignorant these kottayam based methra faction
                clowns are. They cannot even spell correctly the name Patriarch.

                regards
                roymathews-





                -- In SOCM-FORUM@y..., aathura thomas <aathura@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Paul..
                >
                > Well i belong to the ORTHODOX SYRIAN CHURCH..headed by Bawa
                thirumeni (His Holiness Moron Mar baselios Marthoma Mathews II)..And
                not the Patrughese or Jacobite Section of OSC. That should give u the
                answer
                >
                > Well does that make a
                difference..I am a christian..follower of God (The Holy Trinity). Is
                there any restrictions that the members of SOCM-FORUM should be
                Jacobite OSC?? Aren't we all children of God..
                >
                >
                >
                > Liba Thomas
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                >
                > "The Lord is wonderfully good to those who wait for him & seek him"
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
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              • V Thomas
                Dear Sir, MM will never change.They have a aim-to annihilate the Jacobites. If someone thinks, regarding MM ,we have victory that is mirage. MM only created
                Message 7 of 9 , May 17, 2002
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                  Dear Sir,
                  MM will never change.They have a aim-to annihilate the Jacobites.
                  If someone thinks, regarding MM ,we have victory that is mirage.
                  MM only created the division and the new throne.
                  They may take different techniques (veesham),but ultimate aim is
                  Same.
                  Regards
                  vmt


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: "thomas_pa1"@... [mailto:"thomas_pa1"@...]
                  Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:46 AM
                  To: SOCM-FORUM@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SOCM-FORUM] Re: first VICTORY

                  Very Good! I think these news papers are doing
                  business and they will do any marketing technique to
                  increase the number of readers. Revenue which comes from
                  subscription, advertising etc. is related to number
                  of readers. We cannot say 'abc' newspaper is bad and
                  'xyz' is good. Both survive by reporting news....
                • Humble Servant of Christ
                  thanks for opinion ... these news papers are doing
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 19, 2002
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                    thanks for opinion

                    --- thomas_pa1@... wrote: > Very Good! I think
                    these news papers are doing
                    > business and they will do any marketing technique to
                    >
                    > increase the number of readers. Revenue which comes
                    > from
                    > subscription, advertising etc. is related to number
                    > of readers......
                  • mfignatius
                    Brother, Permit me to rebuke you. Do not call these people clowns, whether or not they deserve such a title. They have chosen to exit the Oriental Orthodox
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 20, 2002
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                      Brother,

                      Permit me to rebuke you. Do not call these people "clowns," whether
                      or not they deserve such a title.

                      They have chosen to exit the Oriental Orthodox community and the body
                      of Christ. Let them be.

                      Rather, we should each dwell on our own sins, and worry about these
                      first. Let their actions speak for themselves, and let ours speak
                      for ourselves.

                      I know it is easy to get frustrated when we see apostacy and
                      misinformation dance before our eyes, but do your best not to let it
                      get the best of you.

                      Maybe your comment was in good fun and I perceived it incorrectly,
                      but I think this message can apply to us all.

                      I think we can educate people like Liba better about the Oriental
                      Orthodox Christian faith without calling them names, even if they
                      call us names.

                      In Christ,
                      mike

                      --------------------------------------------------------------
                      From the desk of the Moderator.

                      The mentioned word was edited during the posting of the message.
                      Unfortunately due to some net technical problems it appeared in
                      the posting. We apologise for the pain caused to the members and
                      the readers.
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