Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354
- Dear Brother CJ,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question was :
My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.
I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
you ?? Christ or the system ??
Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
Protesants, who follows similar systems.
Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.
Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.
System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
system which is Indian indigenous System.
I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
ID # 2304
- CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!"Whenever we enter the church and draw near to the heavenly mysteries, we ought to approach with all humility and fear, both because of the presence of the angelic powers and out of the reverence due to the sacred oblation; for as the Angels are said to have stood by the Lord’s body when it lay in the tomb, so we must believe that they are present in the celebration of the Mysteries of His most sacred Body at the time of consecration."St. Bede the Venerable.-----------------------------------------------"I will praise You, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will tell of all Your marvelous works." Psalm 9:1-----------------------------------------------The Bible reading for the 18th of Baramoudah, April 26, is:31 If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish--the very works that I do--bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. (John 5:31-37)Martyrdom of St. Arsenius, Slave of St. Sousnyous.The Bible reading for the 19th of Baramoudah, April 27, is: John 5:39-47Martyrdom of St. Simeon the Armenian, Bishop of the country of Persia and 150 with him.Martyrdom of the blessed Youhanna (John) Abu Nagaah El-Kabeer.Martyrdom of the Vizier Abu Elaala Fahd ibn Ibrahim and his companions.Martyrdom of Daoud (David), the Monk.-----------------------------------------------Prayer Requests:If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.Please remember the following in your prayers:The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.I. Tadros - Broken ankle, awaiting surgery.C's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.Sam - Drugs Addiction.B.E.Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.The Helmi family.Yaga - Cancer.Robert - 8-month-old infant with a rare kidney disease.Faith and family - Healing and guidanceRicardo F. - Serious Health issuesThomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.Hanna - Heart surgeryUrsula - Another surgeryEvelyn - Cancer5 years old Luke - Health issuesDaoud - Peace.Edith D.AA and her kidsMBEmadBrienne B. - Dealing with a serious illnessJohn B. - PeaceM & M - Strong faithMina, I.Mary - IllnessSlava - Recovery from a motorcycle crashThe Orthodox community in Olympia, WAThe unity of the Churches and all Christians.Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25Please pray for the peace of the world.Please remember me in your prayers."casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7