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Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354

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  • Ronnie Daniel
    Dear Brother CJ, Thanks for your reply. Your question was : quote My question is if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit yourself is going or doing
    Message 1 of 2024 , Sep 2, 2005
      Dear Brother CJ,

      Thanks for your reply.
      Your question was :
      quote

      My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
      yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
      will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
      talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
      defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
      Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
      the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
      minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.

      unquote

      I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
      about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
      a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
      you ?? Christ or the system ??
      Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
      me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
      salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
      Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
      system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
      men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
      there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
      Protesants, who follows similar systems.

      Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
      mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
      thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
      established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.

      Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
      Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
      that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.

      System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
      system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
      Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
      people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
      or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
      is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
      is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
      system which is Indian indigenous System.

      I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
      again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
      face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
      North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
      Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
      the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
      re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
      I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
      to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
      in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
      Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
      church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
      around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
      Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
      the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
      the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
      to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
      that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
      colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
      I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
      foreign rule.

      And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
      your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
      is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
      us.

      Prayerfuly
      Ronnie Daniel
      ID # 2304
    • Mark Sadek
      CHRIST IS BORN! GLORIFY HIM! The Word was made man, in order that man might be made divine. He displayed Himself through a body, that we might receive
      Message 2024 of 2024 , Jan 8 5:11 PM
        CHRIST IS BORN! GLORIFY HIM!

        "The Word was made man, in order that man might be made divine. He displayed Himself through a body, that we might receive knowledge of the invisible Father. He endured insult at the hands of men, that we might inherit immortality. In Himself He suffered no injury, being impassable and immortal, and very Word of God. But in His impassability, He was guarding and saving the suffering man, for whose sake He endured this treatment."

        St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word.

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        "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."  Galatians 4:4-5

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        The Bible reading for the 1st of Tubah, January 9, is:
        1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. 5 But whatever house you enter, first say, `Peace to this house.' 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house. 8 Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. 9 And heal the sick there, and say to them, `The kingdom of God has come near to you.' 10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 `The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.' 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. 13 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me. 17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name. 18 And He said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven. (Luke 10:1-20)
        Martyrdom of St. Stephen the Archdeacon.
        Martyrdom of St. Lawindianus (Leontius).

        The Bible reading for the 2nd of Tubah, January 10, is: John 10:1-16
        Departure of St. Theonas, 16th Pope of Alexandria.
        Martyrdom of St. Callinicus (Gallinicus), Bishop of Oseem.

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        Prayer Requests:
        If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.

        Please remember the following in your prayers:

        Peter - Guidance and peace.
        Awad, L.
        Iskaros.
        The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.
        Urgent: Teresa - serious complications from diabetes.
        The Naroz family - Peace and Comfort to deal with their loss
        Jessenia W - Bipolar depression.
        Urgent: Amal - Cancer.
        Tony H. - Cancer.
        Anthony Cacho - Recovery from heart surgery on 6/1. Thank God, Anthony is doing much better and is back to work.
        F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infection
        C's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.
        Sam - Drugs Addiction.
        B.E.
        Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.
        Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.
        Yaga - Cancer.
        Robert - Infant with a rare kidney disease.
        Faith and family - Healing and guidance 
        Ricardo F. - Health issues
        Thomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.
        Evelyn - Cancer
        5 years old Luke - Health issues
        Daoud - Peace.
        Edith D. - Peace.

        The unity of the Churches and all Christians.

        Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25

        Please pray for the peace of the world.

        Please remember me in your prayers.

        "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7
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