Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354
- Dear Brother CJ,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question was :
My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.
I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
you ?? Christ or the system ??
Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
Protesants, who follows similar systems.
Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.
Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.
System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
system which is Indian indigenous System.
I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
ID # 2304
- Rejoice! Christ is Risen!"When a thought oppresses you, do not be downhearted, but put up with it in courage, saying, 'They swarmed around me closer and closer, but I drove them back in the name of the Lord' (Ps. 118:11). Divine help will arrive at your side immediately, and you will drive them away from you, and courage will compass you round about, and the glory of God will walk with you; and 'you will be filled to your soul's desire' (Isa. 58:11)."St. Pachomius the Great, Pachomian Koinonia III.------------------------------ -----------------"I love the Lord, because He has heard My voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I will call upon Him as long as I live." Psalm 116:1-2------------------------------ -----------------The Bible reading for the 15th of Bashans, May 23, is:23 And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. 24 Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God. 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said to Him, See, now You are speaking plainly, and using no figure of speech! 30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God. 31 Jesus answered them, Do you now believe? 32 Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. (John 16:23-33)Martyrdom of St. Simon the Zealot, the Apostle who is known by (Simon the Canaanite).Martyrdom of 400 martyrs in Dandara (Denderah).Commemoration of St. Mina the Deacon.The Bible reading for the 16th of Bashans, May 24, is: John 17:1-9Commemoration of St. John The Evangelist.------------------------------ -----------------Prayer Requests:If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.Please remember the following in your prayers:The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.Anthony C. - Heart surgery on 5/25 (valve replacement and bypass). Also, his wife for comfort.F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infectionI. Tadros - Broken ankle, awaiting surgery.C's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.Sam - Drugs Addiction.B.E.Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.The Helmi family.Yaga - Cancer.Robert - 8-month-old infant with a rare kidney disease.Faith and family - Healing and guidanceRicardo F. - Serious Health issuesThomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.Hanna - Heart surgeryUrsula - Another surgeryEvelyn - Cancer5 years old Luke - Health issuesDaoud - Peace.Edith D.AA and her kidsMBEmadBrienne B. - Dealing with a serious illnessJohn B. - PeaceM & M - Strong faithMina, I.Mary - IllnessSlava - Recovery from a motorcycle crashThe Orthodox community in Olympia, WAThe unity of the Churches and all Christians.Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25Please pray for the peace of the world.Please remember me in your prayers."casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7