Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354
- Dear Brother CJ,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question was :
My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.
I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
you ?? Christ or the system ??
Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
Protesants, who follows similar systems.
Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.
Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.
System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
system which is Indian indigenous System.
I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
ID # 2304
"Just as a treasure that is exposed tarnishes and loses its value, so a virtue which is known vanishes; just as wax melts when it is near fire, so the soul is destroyed by praise and loses all the results of its labor."
How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good things, Who proclaims salvation, Who says to Zion, "Your God reigns!" Isaiah 52:7
The Bible reading for the 7th of Baramhat, March 16, is:
12 When the day began to wear away, the twelve came and said to Him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the surrounding towns and country, and lodge and get provisions; for we are in a deserted place here. 13 But He said to them, You give them something to eat. And they said, We have no more than five loaves and two fish, unless we go and buy food for all these people. 14 For there were about five thousand men. Then He said to His disciples, Make them sit down in groups of fifty. 15 And they did so, and made them all sit down. 16 Then He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke them, and gave them to the disciples to set before the multitude. 17 So they all ate and were filled, and twelve baskets of the leftover fragments were taken up by them. (Luke 9:12-17)
Martyrdom of Sts. Philemon and Apollonius.
Martyrdom of St. Mary the Israelite.
The Bible reading for the 8th of Baramhat, March 17, is: John 8:12-20
Martyrdom of St. Matthias, the apostle.
Departure of St. Julian, the Eleventh Pope of Alexandria.
Martyrdom of St. Arianus, the Governor of Ansena.
If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.
Please remember the following in your prayers:
The families of 21 recently Crowned, Coptic Martyrs. May God grant them strength and peace.
Brienne B. - Dealing with a serious illness.
John B. - Peace
M & M - Strong faith
J. De Ramos - Stage 1 Leukemia.
Mary - Illness
Slava - Recovery from a motorcycle crash
The Orthodox community in Olympia, WA
The unity of the Churches and all Christians.
Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria and Iraq. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25
Please pray for the peace of the world.
Please remember me in your prayers.
"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7