Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354
- Dear Brother CJ,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question was :
My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.
I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
you ?? Christ or the system ??
Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
Protesants, who follows similar systems.
Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.
Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.
System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
system which is Indian indigenous System.
I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
ID # 2304
- CHRIST IS BORN! GLORIFY HIM!"He, the Life of all, our Lord and Saviour, did not arrange the manner of his own death lest He should seem to be afraid of some other kind. No. He accepted and bore upon the cross a death inflicted by others, and those other His special enemies, a death which to them was supremely terrible and by no means to be faced; and He did this in order that, by destroying even this death, He might Himself be believed to be the Life, and the power of death be recognised as finally annulled. A marvellous and mighty paradox has thus occurred, for the death which they thought to inflict on Him as dishonour and disgrace has become the glorious monument to death's defeat."St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word.------------------------------ -----------------"Praise the Lord! Praise, O servants of the Lord, Praise the name of the Lord! Blessed be the name of the Lord From this time forth and forevermore!" Psalm 113:1-2------------------------------ -----------------The Bible reading for the 3rd of Tubah, January 11, is:13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him. 14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt I called My Son. 16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men. 17 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying: 18 A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted, Because they are no more. 19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child's life are dead. 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. (Matt. 2:13-23)Commemoration of the Slain Children of Bethlehem by the Order of King Herod.The Bible reading for the 4th of Tubah, January 12, is: John 21:15-25Departure of St. John the Evangelist and Theologian.------------------------------ -----------------Prayer Requests:If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.Please remember the following in your prayers:Peter - Guidance and peace.Awad, L.Iskaros.The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.Urgent: Teresa - serious complications from diabetes.The Naroz family - Peace and Comfort to deal with their lossJessenia W - Bipolar depression.Urgent: Amal - Cancer.Tony H.. - Cancer.Anthony Cacho - Recovery from heart surgery on 6/1. Thank God, Anthony is doing much better and is back to work.F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infectionC's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.Sam - Drugs Addiction.B.E.Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.Yaga - Cancer.Robert - Infant with a rare kidney disease.Faith and family - Healing and guidanceRicardo F. - Health issuesThomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.Evelyn - Cancer5 years old Luke - Health issuesDaoud - Peace.Edith D. - Peace.The unity of the Churches and all Christians.Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25Please pray for the peace of the world.Please remember me in your prayers."casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7