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Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354

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  • Ronnie Daniel
    Dear Brother CJ, Thanks for your reply. Your question was : quote My question is if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit yourself is going or doing
    Message 1 of 1951 , Sep 2 1:11 PM
      Dear Brother CJ,

      Thanks for your reply.
      Your question was :
      quote

      My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
      yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
      will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
      talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
      defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
      Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
      the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
      minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.

      unquote

      I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
      about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
      a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
      you ?? Christ or the system ??
      Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
      me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
      salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
      Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
      system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
      men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
      there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
      Protesants, who follows similar systems.

      Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
      mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
      thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
      established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.

      Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
      Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
      that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.

      System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
      system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
      Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
      people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
      or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
      is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
      is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
      system which is Indian indigenous System.

      I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
      again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
      face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
      North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
      Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
      the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
      re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
      I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
      to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
      in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
      Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
      church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
      around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
      Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
      the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
      the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
      to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
      that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
      colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
      I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
      foreign rule.

      And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
      your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
      is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
      us.

      Prayerfuly
      Ronnie Daniel
      ID # 2304
    • Mark Sadek
      The Church is the life-giving body of the God-man Christ, and by Him and in Him the body of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity works the salvation of the
      Message 1951 of 1951 , Sep 17 5:26 PM

        "The Church is the life-giving body of the God-man Christ, and by Him and in Him the body of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity works the salvation of the world in the Church through the acts of His grace which deliver each member of the Church from sin, death, and the devil, and fill it with the eternal life, the eternal truth, the eternal justice, the eternal love. The true Church is 'in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.' Thus, each member of the Church is only a true member when he is 'in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,' when he lives in Them and is saved by Their grace and by the struggle."

        St. Justin Popovich.

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        "Jesus Christ was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification."  Romans 4:25

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        The Bible reading for the 8th of Tut, September 18, is: 
        13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. 16 Woe to you, blind guides, who say, `Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.' 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18 And, `Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.' 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it. 23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' 31 Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matt. 23:13-36)
        Martyrdom of Zacharias the Prophet.
        Departure of Moses the Prophet.
        Martyrdom of St. Dimides (Diomede).

        The Bible reading for the 9th of Tut, September 19, is: John 16:20-33
        Martyrdom of St. Pisora the Bishop.

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        Prayer Requests:
        If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.

        Please remember the following in your prayers:

        The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.
        The Naroz family - Peace and Comfort to deal with their loss
        Jessenia W - Bipolar depression.
        Urgent: Amal - Cancer.
        Urgent: Magda - Cancer.
        Tony H. - Cancer.
        Anthony Cacho - Recovery from heart surgery on 6/1. Thank God, Anthony is doing much better and is back to work.
        F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infection
        C's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.
        Sam - Drugs Addiction.
        B.E.
        Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.
        Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.
        Yaga - Cancer.
        Robert - Infant with a rare kidney disease.
        Faith and family - Healing and guidance 
        Ricardo F. - Health issues
        Thomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.
        Evelyn - Cancer
        5 years old Luke - Health issues
        Daoud - Peace.
        Edith D. - Peace.

        The unity of the Churches and all Christians.

        Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25

        Please pray for the peace of the world.

        Please remember me in your prayers.

        "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7
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