Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Bro. Ronnie's view on changing times- Digest Number 1354

Expand Messages
  • Ronnie Daniel
    Dear Brother CJ, Thanks for your reply. Your question was : quote My question is if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit yourself is going or doing
    Message 1 of 1971 , Sep 2, 2005
      Dear Brother CJ,

      Thanks for your reply.
      Your question was :
      quote

      My question is "if the subject (HGs) you talk about and submit
      yourself is going or doing against the hierachy of our chuch, what
      will you do to them? Are you not bound to defend your faith? If you
      talk and practice only about submission in such a situation, who will
      defend the faith (here the Orthodoxy)? It is a fact that today's
      Syrian Orthodox Church is a ramnant. For centuries of draining from
      the faithfuls put this Oldest Church established in AD 37 still a
      minute percentage in the whole world of Christiandom.

      unquote

      I think you need to explain to me what is the faith you are talking
      about. Is it our faith as a believer in Christ. Or is it our faith as
      a believer in a system established by men. What is important to
      you ?? Christ or the system ??
      Also, you need to explain to me what is your meaning of a Church. For
      me church is the body of Christ through which a sinner like me gets
      salvation. So, salvation is the product or fruit of faith.
      Syrian Christian orthodoxy or Indian Christian Orthodoxy is a "
      system " consisting of a heirarchy, liturgy and traditioins made by
      men to achieve salvation which is the fruit of faith. As you said
      there are other systems as well like the Roman Catholics and
      Protesants, who follows similar systems.

      Systems changes with circumstnces. Thats why I asked in my last
      mail why the Holy Syrian Christians like you adopted a " Minnu" or
      thalikettu in the middle of your Marriage sacrament. Is it something
      established by Abraham, Issac or Jacob.

      Systems evolves in a church. No system is perfect. Core faith as
      Jesus christ as son of God remains. Everything else changes and one
      that changes or evolves cannot be part of our faith.

      System in itself does not produce results. We had a Catholicate
      system running in Persia. It met its extinction. We have a Syrian
      Christian system in the Anthiocan church. It cannot get too many
      people to christianity in Syria. And may reach its extinction sooner
      or later. The one system working now and got people to christianity
      is the Indian system. People usually follow and trust a system which
      is working. That's why our Indian fathers are trying to develop a
      system which is Indian indigenous System.

      I wont say it is a faith, it is a system which might be changed
      again. Say in another hundreds of years the Indian Christians will
      face their extinction and the Orthodox church will be replanted to
      North America as American orthodox Church with a St. Thomas Lineage.
      Is it bad ?? I don't think so. That's the way churches evolve. That's
      the way Persian Catholicate became Maphrianate, then to Syrian and
      re-established as Catholicate in India and so on.
      I can understand your sympathy to the Syrian Church and your endavour
      to prop it up as long as you can. I too would have liked to do that
      in return for the good thing they gave us in the past. But to me the
      Syrian church looks totally undemocratic. Even the Roman Catholic
      church elect their Pope with participation of all the ArchBishops
      around the world and has chance for every archbishop to become the
      Pope. How can a church with a chance for only some races to become
      the Patriarch be democratic and Christian. Freedom and liberty is
      the most precious value any one should cherish. This is what God gave
      to Adam and Eve. I know that people in your faction are not keen on
      that freedom. But, I am concerned about you CJ and your other
      colleagues. That's why I am writing again and again.
      I still wish you remain as a separate church , but independent from
      foreign rule.

      And one more advice : Subit to the system by all means, but dont put
      your faith on a system which is evolving. It is not the system which
      is going to save us. It is the body of christ which is goiing to save
      us.

      Prayerfuly
      Ronnie Daniel
      ID # 2304
    • Mark Sadek
      Abba Poemen said that Abba John said that the saints are like a group of trees, each bearing different fruit, but watered from the same source. The practices
      Message 1971 of 1971 , Oct 17 5:21 PM

        "Abba Poemen said that Abba John said that the saints are like a group of trees, each bearing different fruit, but watered from the same source. The practices of one saint differ from those of another, but it is the same Spirit that works in all of them."

        The Sayings of the Desert Fathers.

        -----------------------------------------------

        "Gird Your sword upon Your thigh, O Mighty One, With Your glory and Your majesty. And in Your majesty ride prosperously."  Psalm 45:3-4

        -----------------------------------------------

        The Bible reading for the 8th of Babah, October 18, is: 
        9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?--that they might accuse Him. 11 Then He said to them, What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. 13 Then He said to the man, Stretch out your hand. And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him. 15 But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there. And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all. 16 Yet He warned them not to make Him known, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 18 Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He will declare justice to the Gentiles. 19 He will not quarrel nor cry out, Nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets. 20 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench, Till He sends forth justice to victory; 21 And in His name Gentiles will trust. 22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, Could this be the Son of David? (Matt. 12:9-23)
        Martyrdom of St. Matra.
        Martyrdom of the Saints Abba Hor, Tosia (Susanna) and Her Children, and Abba Agathon, the Hermit.

        The Bible reading for the 9th of Babah, October 19, is: John 10:1-16
        Departure of St. Eumenius, the Seventh Pope of the See of St. Mark.
        The Eclipse of the Sun in the Year 958 A.M.
        Commemoration of St. Simon (Simeon) the Bishop.

        -----------------------------------------------

        Prayer Requests:
        If you have an update on a prayer request, please let me know.

        Please remember the following in your prayers:

        The families of the recently Crowned Martyrs in Egypt and everywhere. May God grant them strength and peace.
        The Naroz family - Peace and Comfort to deal with their loss
        Jessenia W - Bipolar depression.
        Urgent: Amal - Cancer.
        Urgent: Magda - Cancer.
        Tony H. - Cancer.
        Anthony Cacho - Recovery from heart surgery on 6/1. Thank God, Anthony is doing much better and is back to work.
        F - Unable to walk for 3 months with a leg infection
        C's uncle - Stage 4 cancer.
        Sam - Drugs Addiction.
        B.E.
        Hannah - Battling epilepsy, depression and anxiety.
        Erice - Young girl with a troubled family life and suicidal thoughts.
        Yaga - Cancer.
        Robert - Infant with a rare kidney disease.
        Faith and family - Healing and guidance 
        Ricardo F. - Health issues
        Thomas, Matthew, Irene and Ayman M.
        Evelyn - Cancer
        5 years old Luke - Health issues
        Daoud - Peace.
        Edith D. - Peace.

        The unity of the Churches and all Christians.

        Egypt and the Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. "Blessed is Egypt My people." Isaiah 19:25

        Please pray for the peace of the world.

        Please remember me in your prayers.

        "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.